Slashdot Log In
Ask Lawrence Lessig About Life And Law Online
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Dec 11, 2001 01:00 PM
from the voice-of-reason dept.
from the voice-of-reason dept.
Lawrence Lessig of Stanford Law School, and before that of various other places, is one of the best-known voices in the world of electronic freedoms. Lessig's new book, The Future of Ideas, is the latest work of many in his efforts to illuminate and create a freer world online. Lessig has agreed to answer your questions; please be courteous by limiting your questions to one per post.
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Do you really think that there exists a difference (Score:2)
.NET-enabled futures? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:.NET-enabled futures? (Score:3, Informative)
Isn't the liberty alliance trying to combat passport? .NET is microsoft's counter to Java (at least according to their whitepapers). It's a development suite, etc. If I recall, it doesn't really have anything to do with a one stop shop for personal information (which is passport and liberty), other than Passport might be re-implemented with .NET tools.
DMCA (Score:5, Interesting)
Given the recent court defeats in both the Felten and 2600 cases, do we even have a chance?
John Ashcroft (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:John Ashcroft (Score:2)
Unless the US is way off, you can't impeach an attorney general, just the president. he can be fired of course ;)
International Freedom (Score:5, Interesting)
My question is how much of the above do you disagree with and why? And what body (UN, w3.org, wipo, coporation of ISPs, Microsoft) do you forsee holding the international legal legislatory responsibility for the net at large in 1/5/10/25/50 years time?
AOL-TW & MS (Score:2, Interesting)
(1 question per comment, I know, but everyone else does it)
Activism by coding (Score:5, Interesting)
Perhaps it would be helpful to have some bright programmers set up some concrete examples for judges to consider, which clarify the problems we all see, and help judges refine their intuitions about code and digital information.
For example, to further the "code is protected speech" cause, we could create a full-fledged programming language which reads as plain English, then use it to implement a copy protection circumvention program (DeCSS or the like). This raises all sort of interesting questions: it's English and code; is it protected under the first amendment? Presumably it was before it could be run as a program, so does my inventing a programming language change the status of existing speech? If it's protected as only source code, is an interpreter for that language illegal? Is bundling the English script with the interpreter illegal? And so forth....
...but that's a very thorny example. Are there examples of this kind that we programmers should be producing -- software that makes these theoretical arguments more concrete? Is there anything in this spirit that won't just confuse and/or piss off a judge? What examples do our causes need? We're ready to implement them!
Re:Activism by coding (Score:2)
Re:Activism by coding (Score:2)
My question: rather than convincing judges that software is speech, wouldn't it be more efficient to convince the establishment that most of this stuff is just math? At that point, wouldn't algorithm patents (thinking mp3 here) fall away, and wouldn't it be pretty obvious that things like DeCSS are hardly less appropriate than teaching children to do long division?
Re:Activism by coding (Score:3, Informative)
OTOH, there is already a "natural-language" programming language available for a project such as this
Damian Conway's paper, Lingua::Romana::Perligata -- Perl for the XXI-imum Century [monash.edu.au] demonstrates that "natural language" programming IS possible in a quasi-grammatical way, while also pointing out WHY English really just doesn't fit the needs of a programming language. The "Latin" code that results from using Lingua::Romana::Perligata is "sort of" grammatically correct, quite readable, although somewhat "forced", to those with a grounding in the Classics (which many judges have), and lacking a LOT of the special characters that make most programming languages look mysterious to non-techies.
You'll have to read the paper to see the effect of using the module
I don't claim to be enough of a Perl hacker to even begin trying to convert one of the perl versions of DeCSS to a Perligata script, but I feel I know enough linguistics to consider an attempt to create an English-based "natural language programming language" that would come CLOSE to being grammatically correct and comprehensible to non-programmers to be quixotic.
Cyberspace Amendment (Score:5, Interesting)
--Jim
Will the extension of copyright continue? (Score:5, Interesting)
Or do you think that the public interest will reassert itself and hold or even turn back some of these copyright extensions?
When a work's copyright is extended, one person (the author or the corporation that owns it) benefits. But when its copyright expires, everyone benefits by being able to copy, modify, expand on and extend it. Can we convince lawmakers with this kind of social and economic argument?
Re:Will the extension of copyright continue? (Score:2, Interesting)
More info on the Bono Act (Score:3, Informative)
100 Years from Now... (Score:4, Interesting)
Since you are such a big figure in the realm of online freedom, where do you *hope* the level of online freedom is in about 2101, and where do you realistically *think* it will be?
Patents, Copyright and the law community (Score:5, Interesting)
Dr. Lessig,
Looking from the outside in on the legal community's response or lack thereof to the constitutionality and legal basis of recent court rulings (Napster, Eric Corley), the DMCA/SSCA, etc, I see very few lawyers taking a stand against this -- there's mostly a massive shrug. There's the ACLU, the EFF of which you're a part, and Jessica Litman, and that's all I see trying to do something about the co-opting of copyright and patent lawmaking by corporations through appeals based on the interest of business, lobbyists' dealmaking, and outright graft. By and large however there seems to be little interest even amongst lawyers and congressmen about the arcana of copyright and patent law, and thus it's left to such companies and libraries because they're the only ones who both have power and care about it. Has trying to fight this caused conflict in your professional work? Is it lonely being a "vox clamantis in deserto"? What's your game plan for beating these guys back, or do you have one? There's a certain sadness and resignation in both your and Litman's writing that's very disencouraging that would lead me to think that even our flag-bearers feel there's little hope at this point.
--Gregory Dyas
Re:Patents, Copyright and the law community (Score:2)
ignis wrote:
"the question i would ask you, Dyas, is what are you going to do about it?"
The same things I'm doing now -- donating to & remaining active in organizations that support my civil rights online (EFF, ACLU), writing my congresspeople, informing my friends and family about their rights both online and in the real world (some in my extended family thought copying their own CDs to MP3 was illegal because of the hype they'd heard in the news!), encouraging those who agree with me to do the same.
This is a civil democracy you know, so I'm not about to pick up a gun or anything if that's what you mean. If the same actions above performed at large by many people isn't enough to change things for the better, then we've lost already.
IP Laws of the Future (Score:5, Interesting)
Doctrine of First Sale Dead? (Score:5, Insightful)
Given that software is a work of authorship protected by Copyright law, how is it that software publishers get away with these old tricks of printing restrictive contracts on their works, claiming assent simply by using the software, denying people their rights under Copyright law?
burris
US-Centric Laws vs. Global Internet (Score:4, Redundant)
Is cyberspace part of some geographical territory, or should it have it's own legislation and jurisdiction (based on global interests), or will it be an anarchy by design?
As a European (Belgian) citizen, I'm wondering why US legislature is trying to take control of a network, that isn't US-only anymore for some time now. Both the DecSS/Sklyarov cases are quite frightening.
Bridging the "Digital Divide"? (Score:2, Interesting)
What can we be doing "officially" to make sure that gap disappears? I know of several organisations that provide computers and technological assistance to the "have-nots", but should the government play a role? And if so, what should that be?
Internet vs. Intellectual Property... Fight! (Score:3, Interesting)
Do you believe that it would be accurate to say that not much money is actually being "lost" to the internet? If so, how would you go about proving this?
Champ or Chump? (Score:4, Interesting)
Likelyhood of Seattlement getting accepted? (Score:2)
How likely do you think that the DoJ's proposed settlement with Microsoft will be accepted by the Judge?
If the DoJ's seattlement gets accepted over the 9 renegade state's proposal, what effect do you think the DoJ's seattlement will have?
Ed Felten vs. RIAA (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft settlements? (Score:5, Interesting)
file sharing and copyright law (Score:5, Interesting)
If you think it should not be legal, what remedies should the law consider, since these systems can have significant non-infringing uses as well?
prior authorization mechanism (Score:2)
Leverage the knowledge of technical community (Score:5, Interesting)
How can we leverage the knowledge of the community to help educate politicians and the general population in terms of technologies, and the impact of the proposed bills? Briefly, how can we help better, not just sending letters to congress people or senators?
Corporate vs. Individual (Score:2, Interesting)
This is one question, with multiple parts. Some of your defenders have asserted that you are only opposed to Intellectual Property in the hands of corporations. Is this true? Do you favor strong protection for IP produced by individuals as opposed to corporations, or are you opposed to strong IP protection generally?
Also, many people in the AIP movement frequently cite the fact that IP has not been historicly enshrined as a "natural right". However, isn't this just an academic question, important only for lawyers when formulating the basis of the law? After all, we have rights to our physical property, but that doesn't bar the government from confiscating it when such confiscation is deemed to have an overwhelming public benefit. In light of that, why do so many people in the AIP movement feel motivated to make it a point that IP is not a "natural right". My own view on this is that it is simply a rhetorical technique designed to nudge people towards the AIP movement's point of view, but I'd be interested in your take on this.
Finally, what say you to the irony of the fact that if I OCR your book and post it on line I'll get in trouble?
Informational Revolution (Score:3, Interesting)
Due to popular beelifs, do you think that we are going to see a major legal shift in IT rights from business to individuals, similar to the way rights shifted about 100 years ago?
The Important Question (Score:5, Funny)
(For this, I'm going to beg you to ignore any nicities, political considerations, and even the Constitution. We're talking purely feelings here, intellectual rationalizations on what is either possible or likely need not apply. And since this is Slashdot, you don't even need to care if anyone likes it.)
Since everyone can't be an expert (Score:2)
I'm curious about what you think are effective ways of ensuring that our technologies continue to uphold our basic and civil rights when the populations you are attempting to protect will never be well versed in the details of both the technologies and the cause? Or, more generically, how do you amass popular support for issues that are too complex for the popular vote to comprehend?
How long "should" IP rights last? Why? (Score:2, Interesting)
Given that intellectual property ownership is justified by the need to provide an incentive to create new ideas, what is your view of the of the appropriate time duration of intellectual property ownership? Lifetime of human inventor/creator? Fixed period of years? Indefinite?
Is there a coherent rationale for duration of ownership other than arbitrary legistlative choice?
Also, does IP ownership serve other goals (have other justifications) besides fostering innovation, that might be met by other means more effectively?
The Judicial Branch (Score:5, Insightful)
Members of the judiciary are largely unqualified to comment or judge upon issues of a technical nature, simply because their careers do not incorporate a great deal of technical knowledge, and also because they have not sought it (and I don't blame them, probably didn't have time) on their own.
Now, they *are* qualified to comment on matters of criminality, which are supported by a huge amount of precedent, legislation, etc that has been repeatedly modified, challenged, or simply let stand.
However, there are new "crimes" coming into being, called "cybercrimes" by the buzzwordish. Our judges, lacking technical skills or a real awareness of digital culture, are passing judgement in cases that have either very loose or no precedent to be found, or that are the result of new and innovative legislature (see: DMCA).
My concern is that the judges who are making the decisions are the least qualified to do so -- that we won't have a lot of judges with a high awareness of the intricacies involved for several years. However, the judges presently seating are essentially creating a body of law to govern what they do not understand.
My question: How large of a threat will these precedents pose to the continuation or reclamation of freedoms? Will we be able to take back the ground we've alrady lost, or will the intricacies of the legal system vis-a-vis tort & precendent, ensure that we cannot?
-l
(this one is way too long too. I just can't seem to make it fit)
Will history repeat itself? (Score:3, Insightful)
My question is; will the influence of the software industry fade as these new technologies become less new or will these trends, which seem to contradict legal precedent, only gain legitimacy as they establish a precident of their own?
A Common in Scandinavia - The Land (Score:4, Interesting)
Effectively, as I have understood the term "common", the land, or perhaps rather the right to recreation on any land is a common around here.
While this has a very long tradition, the law has come under attack from various groups, often arguing that if no money is invested in preparing recreational areas for people, people will not be able to use the land for recreation.
Would you think that this attitude has some resemblence to the notion that without the labels, no music will be made, as there will be no money to be made from making music?
checks and balances opinion (Score:2, Interesting)
To me it seems that for the majority of my lifetime (Reagan administration - now) has been a time where the United States government has to an increasing degree used the inherent 'checks and balances' in a much more forceful way than perhaps they were intended. To be more specific, congress seems to be passing many more laws at are questionably, and even at times blatantly unconstitutional. The large amount of time involved in judiciary process allows lawmakers to pass such questionionably unconstitutional bills knowing full well that they may only last four to eight years or so.
While this delay may have been less effective in the past, in the "Internet Age" four to eight years is enough to wildly shape emergent technologies and processes to the government's whims (which by extension is the lobbyists' whims in this day and age).
Do you feel that these 'temporary' laws (such as the new anti-terrorism bill, which I believe even has an explicit expiriation date) have a place in modern US government as it is now?
Is Copyright law a sham? (Score:5, Insightful)
If and when I conclude that the deck truly is stacked, such that the political process producing copyright regulation is a sham, should I not also conclude that the best course of action is to engage in covert civil disobediance targeted to deprive the specific entities responsible for the corruption of profits? My question is not whether the DMCA is a corrupt law, but rather what moral obligation one has to obey a law that you earnestly believe symbolizes corrupt government.
After all, if push comes to shove, the anti-circumvention provisions are utterly unenforcable (to the point of being a joke) if they are disregarded in ways that do not attract attention. I'm not someone who has decrypted any DVD's or downloaded many MP3's, but I'm wondering what reason there could possibly be not to start.
Eleventh Circuit (Score:2, Funny)
handle cyber cases which span geographic
boundaries and require understanding of
things not imagined before Bill Gates and
Al Gore invented the internet.
What do you think has been the underlying (Score:2)
And do you see this trend changing anytime soon, and why?
The Demise of Anonymity (Score:4, Interesting)
A lawyer friend tells me that nothing in the US Constitution grants the right to anonymity (as opposed to privacy) and that a means of identifying individuals online is inevitable. That said, do you think the OSS world should preempt efforts such as the SSSCA and provide an open means of positively identifying individuals online? Has it come down to choosing the path to walk vs. being forced down it?
Solutions to Sloppy Legislation? (Score:2, Interesting)
Optimism? (Score:4, Interesting)
The question of harm. (Score:5, Interesting)
The question was one Valenti posed to you. To paraphrase it roughly: "Who cares? I would like someone to explain to me what harm is being done to the world by Mickey Mouse's copyright being extended twenty years. How does that harm anyone's ability to be creative or incentive to be creative."
In the debate you only had the opportunity to present an anecdotal response. (A teacher whose class film projects couldn't be shared due to copyright infringement fears, I think.)
Beyond the anecdote, however, a clear answer would be very helpful. We can all see that the copyright extension bargain was one-sided: copyright holders profited and the public gained nothing. We see the inequity in the action, we sense that the fix was in, and we resent it. But resentment over seeming corruption and the copyright holders' good fortune can only take us so far.
A clear conception of direct harm to the public might be far more persuasive than the secondary harm of the copyright holders getting a really sweet deal. I kept hoping during the debate that the opportunity would come for you to address the question more fully, but it never did.
Destroying the DMCA (Score:2)
The Law of the Code (Score:4, Insightful)
What are examples of protocols that exist (or are soon to exist or you feel will soon exists) that would limit the freedom we currently enjoy? By freedom, I mean the freedom to communicate my thoughts or creative works freely with anyone else on the internet. I don't assume that I have a general right to distribute or copy anybody else's material without permission though I think I should have the right to sell (with the result that I no longer own or have it) anything I buy.
Online liberties and Justice Scalia (Score:5, Interesting)
Many of your bio-blurbs state that you clerked for Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who is the most conservative justice on the current court.
In contrast, your own recently published writings have taken a more liberal or libertarian viewpoint on many issues.
I'm curious to hear about how your time as Scalia's clerk affected your views. What did you learn about civil liberties and technology law while helping to draft opinions for Scalia? Have your views changed since then? If so, why?