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Expose Metacity With Expocity
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Nov 25, 2003 05:41 AM
from the obvious-comparisons dept.
from the obvious-comparisons dept.
ubiquitin writes "expocity is a project to patch metacity and lets you switch between applications in the metacity window manager. After pressing a keystroke, your window manager will present you an overview of all open windows and you can select the window, you want to switch to, visually. For an idea on how this works, check out this screenshot."
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a Better headline would be (Score:5, Funny)
We have cloned MacOsX 10.3 expose feature.
Then people would know what to expect without clicking on the screenshot
Re:a Better headline would be (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't want to sound like flamebait, but it seems to me like lots of OSS projects just copy things that others (Apple, even MS) invented. This, the whole Windows L&F, Mono.
I'm NOT an Apple zealot or apologist, I actually like Linux more than OS X (and don't like Windows at all) and have used Linux for far more than I used OS X.
So, please, show me some URLs to OSS projects that you think are really innovative and are not copies of commercial initiatives. Please restore my faith in OSS
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Re:a Better headline would be (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:a Better headline would be (Score:3, Funny)
Re:a Better headline would be (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:a Better headline would be (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:a Better headline would be (Score:2, Interesting)
at first sight, I'd say here [kernel.org]
But maybe some people believe that innovation is what you can only see.
Regards,
jdif
Re:a Better headline would be (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, Python [python.org] has evolved into an extremely intuitive yet powerful programming language. :-)
Perl [perl.com] was also fairly new in its time.
There's GNU Emacs [gnu.org] which is one of the most powerful text editors in existence.
There's the Apache Webserver [apache.org]. Although webservers aren't new, I would hardly call Apache a copy of anything.
I'm not sure whether the first publicly-released blog software was open source, but I think it might have been.
OpenBSD [openbsd.org] was, AFAIK, the first secure-by-default modern Unix system.
Linux [kernel.org] (the kernel) has also done (or been modified to do) several things not done before.
X11 [x11.org] started as a project out of MIT (which I would guess was open-source, even though the phrase hadn't been coined yet.)
GNU readline [cwru.edu] is also something that is exclusive to open source
I'd guess that ls --color was something new to free software, as well, just because I douby anyone with a pure profit motive would consider it worth the time to implement.
The Debian [debian.org] Project has made several innovations in operating system integration.
Anyway, there are plenty of examples. You just have to look.
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Re:a Better headline would be (Score:3, Interesting)
I think you make the point exactly (Score:4, Interesting)
Apple's Expose was a totally original concept that's now been copied by OSS developers.
It's one thing upgrade and revise existing ideas along what would appear to be a natural path of progression, and something else entirely to brainstorm new products and new interfaces, and mass market them.
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Re:I think you make the point exactly (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple's Expose was a totally original concept that's now been copied by OSS developers.
Totally original?
I doubt it. I think somone said, "you know how Windows will let you scroll through icons of open windows by hitting Alt-Tab, well what if that were more useful?"
It's a variation on a theme, it's like thumbnails crossed with alt-tabbing and made into a tremendously useful feature.
Don't get me
Re:I think you make the point exactly (Score:4, Insightful)
Expose is like a temporary, full screen, icon box.
At least that's what I thought before I saw it in action. Regardless of whether the idea is innovative, it is extremely well engineered, from a HCI perspective. Slick, pretty, AND easy to use.
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Re:a Better headline would be (Score:2)
it only has expose like what, 1 and a half times? really it's not like that it's too surprising either. now the question is do they have to change the name to something else?
Well... (Score:3, Informative)
For those who aren't familiar with it: Enlightenment's pager continually takes a live snapshot of each window's contents and displays them in a miniature form inside the pager.
- You can focus any window by clicking on it in the pager
- You can drag windows around inside the pager to move them
- You can drag a window out of the pager from any virtual desktop onto your current desktop
- You can iconify (minimize) a wind
Re:a Better headline would be (Score:5, Informative)
without any explanation of what it actually does.
Now this article explains it nicely, it actually looks quite useful.
I thought the Apple site explains it quite nicely [apple.com], even with a Flash "try it out" demonstration. Not sure how much easier one could make it.
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Expose (Score:5, Insightful)
Call a spade a spade.
Re:Expose (Score:4, Funny)
Calling it a "spade" is to denigrate the essential oneness of being that this delicate but powerful tool brings to the entire gardening experience.
I would point out that with an earth-inverting horticultural instrument, one need not beat around the bush, indeed one may transplant the bush.
Simon
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Better link about how this works... (Score:5, Informative)
Anyway, it's a good idea and very useful.
My 2 cents (Score:3, Interesting)
He used the expose feature to select the browser from the 10+ he had open at the time. The audience all went "Ooooooh" and I'll admit that I thought it was a neat effect.
While I probably would just use virtual desktops most of the time, it would be useful in some cases, or to show someone (as pictures are worth a 1000 words
Re:Tabs are your friend (Score:3, Insightful)
-T
Re:Better link about how this works... (Score:4, Insightful)
Interesting if you flip this around:
Maybe useful on an X desktop, but as a long-time Mac user I and others have learned to make full use of a single desktop. I wouldn't stand having everything scattered over multiple virtual desktops and, in the end, not knowing where I had anything.
Really, it's all about what you're comfortable with. Why not have both? There are many advantages to each approach.
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I wonder where they got that name... (Score:2)
Apple's Expose for the rest of us?
Re:I wonder where they got that name... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Use the virtual desktop (Score:2, Insightful)
Within each virtual screen its easy to find the application I want - in the web dev screen I might have a Mozilla window, a
Re:Use the virtual desktop (Score:3, Insightful)
Classic example (Score:5, Insightful)
The average desktop user barely understands the concept of files and folders - do you honestly expect them to be organized enough to arrange their programs into virtual desktops as you have done?
This project is exactly what Linux should be doing - assimilating the best features from its competitors on the desktop. I just wish that Linux was also innovating on the desktop, rather than just following in the footsteps of others (and no, themability is not an innovation so far as usability is concerned).
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Use the virtual desktop with OpenGL 3D switching (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Use the virtual desktop (Score:2)
try it, then knock it (Score:3, Interesting)
You probably also have a giagantic screen, yes? 1280x1020 or above? Doesn't sound like you have many windows open either.
Our CEO didn't 'get' Expose when I demo'd it on my 17" Powerbook. Then two days after he got his 12" Powerbook, he was asking a question about something and said in disgust, 'Arrg, all these frigging windows." "Hit F12". "Oh. Hmm. Okay. That IS cool." He now loves it. Can't stop using it. Once y
Re:Use the virtual desktop (Score:4, Interesting)
But how many of them deserve slashdot headlines? Did Expocity get in just because its a clone of a Mac UI feature?
And its a patch to a window manager? Looking at the code I think the reason for this is because it is continuously updating its thumbnails as the window manager gets events, so I guess it can display them rapidly when the user asks. Will this slow everything down?
Could this be re-implemented as a standalone X program? Or would getting thumbnails of obscured windows be a problem?
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Expocity + X Compositing = cool (Score:5, Informative)
Keith Packard is currently finishing up a sample compositing manager for his X server that presents live app windows updated in essentially real time. Should see a live demo in the next day or two---a preliminary screen shot is already available in the freedesktop.org article from earlier today.
I'm glad the WM folks are already duplicating Mac eXpose layout and function: once the two are combined, the X desktop should have the full Mac eXpose functionality.
Even better, this is only the beginning of the cool things that can be done quickly and easily with X compositing... It looks like X is finally almost ready for the (modern) desktop.
This is awesome! (Score:4, Insightful)
apt-get expose (Score:5, Funny)
apt-get-expose is basically a heavily modified version of apt-get and dselect, using a completely re-implemented ncurses and screen library to allow multiple apt-get sessions to be tiled onto the console with a single keystroke. Believe me, when you're neck deep in 20 apt-get sessions trying to juggle installs across several nodes in the supercomputer cluster, being able to visually choose a particular apt-get session is a God-send!
It wasn't easy. If any of you have seen the way Expose works in Mac OS X, then you'll know how fluid that "tile all windows" animation is. It was, to put it mildly, a 'challenge' to get the ncurses library to emulate that functionality using only ASCII art. We extensively debated how we would get ASCII text-scaling support to the same level of smoothness as Mac OS X achieves, and in the end the only way we could see was to hack some low-level VGA BIOS calls. It's way cool, and it's as fast as the Mac OS X version, but using all ASCII characters (we tried Unicode, but the 16-byte overhead wasn't justifiable).
Since then, we've been able to roll out apt-get-expose (using apt-get, by the way...being able to roll out new versions of apt-get with apt-get rocks!!!) across the campus, and administrators of other clusters can't stop raving about how easy it is to manage multiple apt-get sessions with apt-get-expose.
Window tiling and arrangement functionality shouldn't be restricted only to those running Mac OS X and Expocity. apt-get tile all windows dude!!
Re:apt-get expose (Score:2, Insightful)
I've managed and done procedures like this on large clusters before and it was all managed via a small set of scripts and config files that made huge system changes or code rollouts as simple as a couple of shell commands.
BIG yawn (Score:2)
You see, I'm a programmer. I have windows full of 'bash' open, plus one Mozilla. I keep 10 virtual desktops, indexed by 'alt+number', at my fingertips. On each of those desktops, I have 3 xterms open. That's all I need or want.
Now take this feature. I'd have 30 little boxes on my screen to select from, and all would be unreadable greek text. Impossible to use.
Window metaphor considered harmful (Score:5, Interesting)
Looking at the incredible screenshot of Expocity for Metacity, I think to myself: how can anyone work with such a confusion of information in front of them?
My hero, Dijkstra (anyone who could live with 5 successive constanants in his name must be cool), once said "GOTOs considered harmful". We know where that led us to...
Anyhow, I believe the desktop Window metaphor has outlived its usefulness. It dates to the earliest metaphors of visual computing, but continues today only because it has become dogma. Let me list some of the ways it does not model a true desktop, such as you or I sit at every day and work on.
First, a true desktop has hundreds of objects on it, varying from piles of CDs, documents, bills to be paid, loudspeakers, mouldy cups of coffee... This is the real working environment of most creative people, a cluttered mess that makes perfect sense because it maps our projects. You've all had that sense of panic when someone "cleaned your desk?"
Second, in a real desktop, you add new stuff, it covers old stuff. This is normal and natural and necessary and the only way to filter the real work from the junk. If it ain't screaming at you, it's not serious.
Thirdly, the objects on a GUI windowed desktop do not match the actual objects we work on. I have to look through my email client to find important emails, I have my bookmarks in Konqueror, I have that hot dossier on a disk somewhere.
There has to be a better way.
What we need is a unified desktop that represents the real objects we work on, in a way that mirrors the manner in which we actually use them.
A desktop that hides information which needs to be hidden, and exposes the information which needs to be visible. A desktop that shows everything, from incoming emails to useful web bookmarks, to documents and toys, newsgroups, and devices.
I've specified this desktop in
journal [slashdot.org] entries [slashdot.org].
Putting my money where my mouth is, we're working on a prototype that will be unleashed on the world sometime early next year.
Re: Window metaphor considered harmful (Score:5, Funny)
> There has to be a better way.
Yes, I prefer the metaphor of a fishbowl where applications swim around at random, and instead of moving a "pointer" with your mouse you move a little net that you can use to fish out the application you want to look at more closely. This powerful metaphor combines the best features of a game with dynamic, organic organization of information, and teaches children visio-spatial coordination as well as fishing skills.
For troublesome applications such as viruses you can trade your net for a speargun, and to log out you simply toss a handgrenade into the tank, killing most of your applications and stunning the rest, without having to think through a bunch of unintuitive menus.
All rendered in 3D and accompanied by sound effects, of course.
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Re:Window metaphor considered harmful (Score:3, Interesting)
This is the way I do it: Have 9 virtual screens (natively in GNU/Linux or via Altdesk [astonshell.com] on Windows), with each screen bound to one of the keys in the 3x3 square defined by Q-E-C-Z (Ctrl-Shift-q for screen 1, C-S-e for screen 3, C-S-a for screen 4, etc.)
Rows are for machines: Q-W-E is the local machi
That was fast (Score:3, Redundant)
Copyright or Patents? (Score:3, Insightful)
I know that lots of readers here believe that they should be able to copy ideas from other peoples software and make an open source or free alternative, but does this kind of blantant copying harm the cause?
I would rather see innovation from the Linux and open source commnuitities that doesn't merely try to implement what other companies are already doing.
Apple deserve much praise for their recent work on OS X in my opinion. Simply duplicating work that they've invested time, money and effort in research and development.
It think this dilutes their efforts. Imitation is not always the sincerest form of flattery.
Re:Copyright or Patents? (Score:3, Interesting)
Bad idea (Score:3, Funny)
I just tried it (Score:5, Informative)
This means dragging a window over multiple other windows will make the window manager unresponsive for quite some time! Anyway, hitting the magic button does produce a pretty thumbnail though.
This is definitely not useful in the real world, but still cute
Uh oh (Score:3, Funny)
Re:My 2 Cents. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:My 2 Cents. (Score:5, Insightful)
Please don't tell people who are volunteering their time writing open source applications that their time would be better spent elsewhere. The reason Linux is as close to where it is on the desktop is because people have worked on the sort of things that interest them. You may be right: Maybe some other project would be more objectively useful. But on the other hand, if you were in charge, deciding who got to work on what project, nobody would want to work on open-source anymore, and Linux would suck pretty quick.
So let people do what they want, even if you think it's dumb. It's a community effort that is strong because people can work when, how, and on what they want.
Do you hang out at neighborhood cleanups telling people they should be volunteering their time at soup kitchens instead?
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The desktop is a marketplace, not a race. (Score:5, Insightful)
Right now, we're seeing the catastrophic takeover of the server market by Linux, it's devastating the vendors Unix offerings, Microsoft will be next, all that will be left for non Linux systems will be a few small niches and long term holdouts.
The desktop market is really no different, the same will happen there too. Like the server switch it really is inevitable and has been for years. Purely a matter of time now.
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Re: uh... (Score:5, Funny)
> does anyone actually care about this??
My favorite Metacity application management tool is -
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Microsoft's Definition of Innovation (Score:5, Insightful)
Copy your ideas from Apple, give it a slightly different finish and not do it as well, and then have it named "innovative."
Bloody brilliant.
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Re:Two words: (Score:3, Insightful)
If you have multiple similar windows open (say a load of gimp documents, or gvim windows), you have to cycle through each one, read the title on the task list and remember to stop cycling on the right one (or use shift-alt-tab to go back, a strange combination).
Alt-tab works, but it's inefficient. I generally split my work over many desktops to avoid having to use i