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Next Generation Stun Guns?
Posted by
michael
on Thu Jun 17, 2004 07:53 AM
from the separating-taxpayers-from-their-money-since-2003 dept.
from the separating-taxpayers-from-their-money-since-2003 dept.
RoyalCheese writes "Well, I've just been reading an interesting little article on New Scientist's website about new crowd control weapons that electrocute/stun the targets. Seems we will soon be at risk of being stunned by ionised air generated by laptop sized lasers..." Reader Spetiam adds "News.com.au reports on a new weapon that will be able to zap you from afar, wires not included: 'We will be able to fire a stream of electricity like water out of a hose at one or many targets in a single sweep,' XADS [Xtreme Alternative Defense Systems] president Peter Bitar is quoted as saying." So, this company has a free-hosting website and and a free-email address for their "president", and the photo looks like cardboard tubes wrapped with green camouflage tape. Hmmmm.
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Obligatory quote... (Score:3, Funny)
Oh the pain, the pain of it all... (Score:4, Funny)
Cant they somehow strap this frickin laser beem to that frickin guys head?
Im the president of this frickin company for frickin sake.
Re:Oh the pain, the pain of it all... (Score:5, Funny)
I'd hate to see what this thing can do when actually used...
Parent
Re:Oh the pain, the pain of it all... (Score:3, Funny)
As another poster noted, Ghostbusters was doing this 20 years ago...
but MY question is...
Reminds me of... (Score:5, Funny)
We will be able to fire a stream of electricity like water out of a hose at one or many targets in a single sweep
Re:Reminds me of... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Reminds me of... (Score:3, Funny)
And the e-mail is @lycos? You would think a company with gov't contracts, doing R&D on multi-million (billion?) dollar equipment could afford $35/year for domain registration, plus $10/month on hosting...man talk about cost slashing freaks!
Re:Reminds me of... (Score:5, Insightful)
Am I the only one who thinks a respectable company/research group would NOT call their technology "Xtreme" anything, let alone Xtreme Alternative Defense System To The Max Dude! (okay, I added the "To the max dude!" part, but it sounds like it should be there..)
Parent
Super Soaker (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyway, my dad built the thing. It has been licensed for use in some non-US prisons for riot control.
http://www.jaycor.com/eme/watcan.htm
as far as small stun equipment, check out the same company's sticky shocker:
http://www.jaycor.com/eme/nlp.htm
Parent
20 years old tech (Score:5, Funny)
The Ghostbusters were already doing that 20 years ago...
Do I smell a 'Homeland Security' scam here? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep, that's what I thought, another Homeland Security scam. Nothing to see here. Carry on.
Re:Do I smell a 'Homeland Security' scam here? (Score:3, Insightful)
The whole point of the Small Business Innovation Research awards is to give cash money to people in garages with Ideas. With the express purpose of them spending that money on the idea. Not the marketing, Systems Management, or anything else. Besides these people proba
Re:Do I smell a 'Homeland Security' scam here? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Do I smell a 'Homeland Security' scam here? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not even an especially convincing prop at that...
Re:Do I smell a 'Homeland Security' scam here? (Score:4, Informative)
SBIRs had some pretty good PR that mimicked your "[support] people in garages with Ideas" remark, but the reality was that at least for some fields, the RFPs were ghost-written by the companies that were going to win them anyway (when they later "applied").
Just because the Cold War was "over", didn't mean that the aerospace industry welfare system augered in. The incestuous system simply put on a cloak of another layer of deception. The same people still met on the same golf course, at the same bar, and at the same industrial conference, and hammered out the same plans; but now, after being wined and dined, the government officials had to perform one more step of getting the RFP put into some periodic SBIR solicitation. In short, it's the usual corruption.
Also, as far as I know today, SBIRs are still suspiciously prone to approvals under the system of sponsorship
Spending SBIR money on marketing efforts should be a no-no, as you implied, but I wouldn't be surprised at all at how much that occurs.
Parent
New Scientist only half scammed (Score:5, Insightful)
The vapourware company was presumably able to get its press release through the editorial board at New Scientist because they already knew that such products were out there, and the reporting is of the "look how soon they are getting it to market" variety.
My 2p's worth: Both proposals seem to have one flaw, at least for military application, for the same reason gas-based weapons have not been popular since the First World War: If the wind changes, the gas can blow back into your own trenches. I guess a quick-minded operator will switch off the current, but it seems risky.
Parent
Saved! (Score:4, Interesting)
I think for this purpose... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
In other news........ (Score:5, Funny)
Demonstrators at a protest in the United Kingdom were seen running around with lengths of copper wire trailing across the ground from their trouser-legs.
Re:In other news........ (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:When copper wire is outlawed... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's about time! (Score:5, Funny)
Potato canon technology is now within reach of the US armed forces.
You want fries with THAT! and THAT! and THAT!
kulakovich
Re:It's about time! (Score:3, Funny)
You want fries with THAT! and THAT! and THAT!
Nothing to laugh at here...that was probably their previous job.
If looks could kill.... (Score:4, Funny)
Do the math... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Do the math... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Do the math... (Score:3, Interesting)
- Oisin
Oh No.... (Score:5, Funny)
Holt Crap! A weapon that will specifically target me in my tin foil hat!
Look at the uses they're citing -- chilling (Score:5, Insightful)
But the (smaller) gun fires a single shot with a range is limited to 7m, which makes it nearly useless for crowd control, especially in hotspots such as Iraq...
Yeah, I seem to remember a lot of situations in Iraq where there was a crowd rioting, and everything would have been better if only we'd had a stun gun to take them all out at once...
Oh, no, actually that really only applies from Saddam Hussein's POV. Take out your crowd of demonstrators, you know? The insurgency in Iraq has been made up largely of well-timed attacks against weak points. They're looking for the spots where we're not vigilant. If we knew where they'd be next, we could use a stun gun I guess... But we don't.
This is a weapon designed to use in case of protests or riots. What kinds of governments need this sort of weapon? The nearest thing to a potential use I can think of in the US would be the Rodney King verdict riots, maybe -- and would you want that? Would you want the LAPD to have this weapon?
Re:Look at the uses they're citing -- chilling (Score:5, Funny)
This is a weapon designed to use in case of protests or riots. What kinds of governments need this sort of weapon?
Any country hosting rowdy soccer fans, maybe?
Parent
Re:Look at the uses they're citing -- chilling (Score:5, Interesting)
I do. Civilians attacking troops with deadly weapons (knives, thrown rocks etc.). At the moment they have three choices:
- Fire back with lethal weapons. Kill civilians.
- Don't fire back. Die.
- Try to defend yourself with hand-to-hand combat. Possibly get injured, possibly get accused of brutality.
An area effect stun weapon would allow them to disable the protesters (who may well have real grievances, but who are currently a danger to themselves and others) without causing loss of life. Would you rather that they fired into a crowd?This is a weapon designed to use in case of protests or riots. What kinds of governments need this sort of weapon?
Take 5,000 peaceful protesters. Add a sprinkling of drunk or over-psyched individuals. Watch your peaceful protest turn into a bloodbath as fights break out and others get trampled by those trying to escape. How would you suggest the police deal with this situation? Being able to knock everyone out and then sort them out later seems a lot better than the kind of tragedies that these things often degenerate into.
Would you want the LAPD to have this weapon?
You don't want them to have non-lethal weapons, but you're happy with them carrying guns?
Parent
Re:Look at the uses they're citing -- chilling (Score:3, Interesting)
Like the ones driving harmlessly by, who get dragged out of trucks and beaten severely and end up in critical condition.
Or the Korean store owners who got vanadlized 24/7 during the rioting.
Thank God welfare payday came up and they all stopped protesting and went to sit somberly in line.
LAPD, Yes... (Score:4, Insightful)
Any non-lethal means given to the police to subdue a dangerous suspect or suspects should be available.
RIOTs are clearly one area where large scale non-lethal intrevention is warranted. It would not be a violation of Freedom of speech or similar non-sense arguments. If a large group is violently breaking the law then give the police a means to control them.
Whats worse, being stunned or gased? Hell I think stunning may be useful compared to water hoses and rubber bullets.
Its all about context.
Parent
Next gen. Non Lethal weapons (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeay, right. Cos' a jolt that'll put you down and twitching isn't going to stop a weak heart, or mess up a pacemaker.
It's like the pulsed "non-lethal" laser - the first shop vapourises a small section of the target's surface , and the next ignites the cloud of gases. On low power it knocks people down with mild burns(hope it didn't hit your face), on high it chews through brick walls.
Why are these so bad? Simple - by the simple act of labelling these as non-lethal the authorities greatly increase their ability to use them in all sorts of situations.
After all, a "democratic" government that authorised use of automatic weapons on a rioting crowd would have a few questions to answer - But hey, CS gas, Rubber bullets, tasers are all fine...
Repressive Govenments Rejoice!! (Score:5, Insightful)
No longer will your govenment have to put up with protestors! Unruly tree-hugging anti-capitalists will stumble away even more confused than when they came in! But why stop there!
The mass tesla cannon(tm) can halt all kinds of protest! Even mass protestations against the president can be easily quashed in mid whine! Police forces can quickly and efficiently deal with dissenters without sparking media attendtion!
Coupled with new digital censorship, your government will now have the power to make sure the "Right" kind of society exists in your country!
Order today!
How it works (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, you still need to hike around a whopping big capacitor bank to have this work over any reasonable distance, and the repeat rate of fire would probably be lousy since the capacitors would have to be recharged....
More Star Trek technology... (Score:5, Funny)
Googled (Score:5, Informative)
Anderson, Indiana, will be one of the first companies to market
another type of wireless weapon. Instead of using fibres, the $9000
Close Quarters Shock Rifle projects an ionised gas, or plasma,
towards the target, producing a conducting channel. It will also
interfere with electronic ignition systems and stop vehicles.
"We will be able to fire a stream of electricity like water out of
a hose at one or many targets in a single sweep," claims XADS
president Peter Bitar.
Solid-state lasers
The gun has been designed for the US Marine Corps to use for crowd
control and security purposes and is due out in 2005. It is based
on early, unwieldy technology and has a range of only three metres,
but an operator can debilitate multiple targets by sweeping it
across them for "as long as there is an input power source," says
Bitar.
XADS is also planning a more advanced weapon which it hopes will
have a range of 100 metres or more. Instead of firing ionised gas,
it will probably use a powerful laser to ionise the air itself. The
idea has been around for decades, says LaVerne Schlie, a laser
expert at the US Air Force Research Lab in Kirtland, New Mexico.
It has only become practical with advances in high-power solid-state
lasers.
"Before, it took a laser about the size of two trucks," says Schlie.
"Now we can do it with something that fits on a tabletop."
The laser pulse must be very intense, but can be brief. So the
makers of the weapons plan to use a UV laser to fire a 5-joule pulse
lasting just 0.4 picoseconds - equating to a momentary power of
more than 10 million megawatts.
This intense pulse - which is said not to harm the eyes - ionises
the air, producing long, thread-like filaments of glowing plasma
that can be sustained by repeating the pulse every few milliseconds.
This plasma channel is then used to deliver a shock to the victims
similar to a Taser's 50,000-volt, 26-watt shock.
The Power Lead (Score:5, Funny)
The article forgot to mention... (Score:3, Funny)
fake or not? (Score:5, Interesting)
1) In the picture, the "soldier" doesn't look older than 14
2) The "soldier"'s shirt is not tucked in, nor are there any insignia on the shirt. A definite no-no.
3) The "soldier" is not wearing combat boots, nor are his pants tucked into the boots. Another no-no for real soldiers.
4) The "weapon" definately looks like a paper tube wrapped in gift wrap. Additionally, whatever that spring thing is at the end of the tube looks rusty. Call me a sticker but methinks that a weapon that shoots electricity would not have a rusty thing at the end.
Now here's why I think this could be real, just incredibly, incredibly stupid looking:
1) WHOIS indicates [register.com] that the website has been registered since 1997. While not entirely unplausible, it seems unlikely that for just a joke someone would have registered the website that long ago, and would have reregistered it.
2) A Google search [google.com] show some interesting things. Like the Pete Bitar who is the president/register/etc. is VP of American Aviation [americanav...ompany.com] where his bio mentions this xtremeads thing. A little bizarre that a professional company would mention a fake project for the bios of their personnel.
3) The google search also found an article from the Inside Indiana Business [insideindi...siness.com] that mentions the company and the president. Once again, it seems unlikely this guy could fool that many people. Although not entirely unplausible.
Anyways, those are my feelings, what do you all think?
Very short range... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you think 20 feet is long range, then the first prototype is likely to be about 10 feet or so, or has extremely limited power/time. It likely doesn't carry its own power supply.
But that doesn't mean the technology isn't viable, it just means that it needs a ton of development work and will probably be very limited in its capabilities.
Rubber bullets, tear gas, fire hoses, etc will probably still have a broader applicability to most situations. Either that or the other alternative weapons such as the sonic or light weapons that cause dizziness and nausea.
Power is always an issue, though. Anything that doesn't focus its power on a spot the size of a dime at 300 feet is, due the the laws of physics, going to require immense amounts of power - not hand carryable. Possibly backpack for short sessions.
-Adam
What the article does not say... (Score:4, Interesting)
"I'm sorry, our nonlethal line is only available to law enforcement sir. Would you be interested in our line of top quality firearms?" Lethal force is only for civilians... what a time to be alive!
(5 mod points and I had to comment.)
Legit? (Score:4, Informative)
XTREME ADS (ALTERNATIVE DEFENSE SYSTEMS)
1508 E. 7th St.
Anderson, IN 46012
Phone: (765) 724-2226
PI: Mr. Pete Bitar
Topic#: NAVY 02-121
Awarded: 25NOV02
Title:Personnel Neuromuscular Disruptor Incapacitation System
Abstract:The STUNBEAM will effectively be proven to be the world's first available "wireless Taser", using electromagnetic energy to create ion "streams" which conduct a static charge which can disrupt neuromuscular control of any human or comparable animal target, at an output of between 25,000 and 100,000 volts with extremely low amperage. The weapon can also be used to disrupt electronic devices. Current technology already has proven results at very short, point-blank ranges of between five and ten feet. This Phase 1 work will deal with the ion streams themselves in the areas of columniation, tracking, limiting scattering effects, and static pulse conductivity in order to increase the range and controllability of a larger-scale device to between 50 and 300 feet. Since work has already been done in this area by Xtreme, one of the final results of the Option portion of this Phase 1 SBIR will be to build and deliver a working proof of concept device with a range of at least 10 feet, which will be useful in close-quarter scenarios as are common with the use of "Tasers". Xtreme has the technical ability, facility, and willingness to forge ahead in taking this technology to the incredible potential it has. The benefits of this system are unlimited. The unit will stun, not kill, its target, allowing for hostages to be rescued easily from almost any hostage situation, and criminals or enemy combatants to be captured, not killed, in a variety of military and law enforcement scenarios. This system will be easy to use and will be portable. Units can be sold commercially to police as well as to homeowners for effective, non-lethal self defense. Other applications of the massive ion generation of related devices can be used, among other things, in air purification and medical sterilization.
alternate forms of weaponry (Score:4, Interesting)
Here [hektik.org]
NOTE: WE SELL ONLY TO... (Score:3, Funny)
Also Tony Hawk, Dave Mirra, Bam Margera, the good people at Right Guard, and that hottie from that show about all the videogames.
"Hey baby, my cannon goes nine feet and can shut off a Volkswagen. Can I see your b00biez!?"
If Google is to be believed.... (Score:5, Informative)
Source: http://www.americanaviationcompany.com/staff.htm
Still sounds dubious to me. The picture of the stun gun is hilarious.
Parent
Re:They can't afford a serverver. (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Effective Range -lt 9 feet! (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:I don't get it? (Score:3, Insightful)
'Laptop sized' power unit apparently stuck in belt/pocket
Incorrect firing stance for a large weapon (knees locked, stance too narrow)
Power lead dragging ground, should be coiled and tucked
Uniform sleeves too short
sleeves left loose, not buttoned down
Pants cut too long, and not bloused to boots as mentioned above
Incorrect t-shirt under a field jacket
Gun strap too tight, should be resting at the hip to allow a more relaxed grip and faster sweeping when firing... the way it's resting, he wou