NYC Crosswalk Buttons are Inoperative

cdneng2 writes "NY Times has an article that New York crosswalk push buttons are actually ineffective. Apparently, New York City deactivated most of the pedestrian buttons long ago with the emergence of computer-controlled traffic signals. From the article, 'More than 2,500 of the 3,250 walk buttons that still exist function essentially as mechanical placebos, city figures show.' Well, apparently New York city isn't the only city like this. I guess the answer lies in the same reason why people press the elevator button more than once."

Most Dangerous Intersections

[Xeed (308294)]

Surprisingly enough, NY doesn't have any intersections listed in the top 10 most dangerous intersections list [statefarm.com], compiled by State Farm.

However, you can find the 24 most dangerous intersections in NY, as compiled by the NYPD here [transalt.org].

Either way, crossing the street isn't the safest thing in the world.

Re:Most Dangerous Intersections

[by Anonymous Coward]

That's only because actual commuting done in New York City is done primarily via cabs and subways, both of which are piloted by non-standard citizens who are trained commercially-licensed professional drivers. Of course not as many accidents are going to happen, they're pros.

That being said, it's still dangerous because the cab drivers can occasionally be reckless due to long hours worked.

See here [golala.com] for more zaniness.

Re:Most Dangerous Intersections

[wizbit (122290)]

sorry, did I just see the words "New York City" and "professional drivers" in the same sentence?

Re:Most Dangerous Intersections

[iabervon (1971)]

Remember, "professional" means that you get paid for it, not that you're any good at it.

Re:Most Dangerous Intersections

[defile (1059)]

I disagree.

Most people get into car accidents because they lose awareness. On country and sparse suburban roads it's easy to drive without seeing another person or moving motor vehicle for miles. As such, drivers tend to zone out and not notice the pedestrian until after they flip over your hood.

In Manhattan, you're surrounded by people and cars ALL THE TIME, even at 4AM, and at any moment someone could step in front of your car and you could kill them instantly. As such, you drive *very* carefully.

Also, 99% of the intersections in Manhattan have traffic lights. It's either red stop or green go.

If you don't see a green light at an intersection you assume you have to stop. This is reinforced so heavily that when motorists come to intersections in Manhattan with all-way stop signs instead of traffic lights, the motorists end up coming to a stop and waiting for a green light to appear. Eventually it occurs to them that there isn't a red light there either, and they then notice the stop sign and cautiously dart across.

I find driving in Manhattan to be more incident free than anywhere else. The rules-of-intersection engagement are very clear (don't even think of crossing until you see green), the other motorists are just as alert as you are (so cutting them off and being cut off by them is no big deal and traffic flows more smoothly), and above all, assume a pedestrian will decide to cross no matter where they are or what you're doing.

Driving in the rest of NYC is on the other hand a nightmare.

As such, I've become completely incompatible with weekend motorists and fear for my life when I go out on weekends.

Re:Most Dangerous Intersections

[kimgh (600604)]

What are "non-standard citizens"? A citizen is a citizen, right?

Re:Most Dangerous Intersections

[gnu-generation-one (717590)]

In England, we have these gutless pedestrian crossings which are too scared to stop traffic if they detect cars approaching, so they wait until there's no traffic around and only then activate the pedestrian sequence.

Well gee thanks, I could've figured out myself that I can get across when there's no cars around...

Even better are the ones with a sensor to see if a pedestrian is waiting. So not only do they pander to any approaching car, but they require the pedestrian to be standing in a particular place otherwise they don't operate at all. Very useful.

So if anyone is reading this story and doesn't have a clue what it means because traffic-light stuff is all greek to you... Bedford city council has jobs waiting for you. Join the ranks of the clueless.

And in Paris...

[Kinniken (624803)]

In England, we have these gutless pedestrian crossings which are too scared to stop traffic if they detect cars approaching, so they wait until there's no traffic around and only then activate the pedestrian sequence.

Cowardly brits!
In Paris, many pedestrians seems to think it's shameful to cross if there are not cars coming from both directions, the faster the better! :p

Re:Most Dangerous Intersections

[by Anonymous Coward]

Around my area they installed crosswalks with BRIGHT ass leds that flash when someone presses the button. The leds are on both sidewalks as well as two lines on the road itself. These things just command attention, when pressed you can see drivers approaching immediately step on the brakes. IMO they have already saved lives because even I have not noticed the pedestrian before I saw the lights.

start spreading the news...

[segment (695309)]

As a native NY'er (29+ yrs), I've known for the longest those buttons don't work, and I'm almost sure every NY'er knows the same too. Hell half of those red fire department boxes don't even work the city knows and hasn't done anything about those, so little attention will be paid to those funky looking buttons.

Now on the flip side of things, for those who live in the boroughs, Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, SI, if you take a good old trip to city hall and the places where the money is flowing what do you find? Operating buttons, clean streets, subways with bathrooms, and spikes to keep those pigeons from pooping all over the place. The boroughs... What are you kidding?

Re:Most Dangerous Intersections

[l810c (551591)]

My first semester at college I lived in a dorm right next to a busy/dangerous intersection.

The dorm was shaped like a U that pointed at the intersection heightening the noise. Several times a day you would hear loud screeching as people locked up their brakes. Always just the screeching. About 3 weeks into the semester, there was another loud screech, this time followed by a loud CRASH. Simultaneously, 50 people stuck their heads out their windows and cheered. It was hilarious.

Re:Most Dangerous Intersections

[MyHair (589485)]

Surprisingly enough, NY doesn't have any intersections listed in the top 10 most dangerous intersections list, compiled by State Farm.

That list is compiled based upon the dollar amount of State Farm insurance claims for those intersections. I imagine the fleet cabs and busses of NYC are largely self-insured by the operating companies and wouldn't show up as claims to State Farm or any other insurer.

State Farm offers monetary and consultative support to cities with intersections in their top 10 (and a lesser amount to those in their top 100 IIRC) to save themselves money.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

A perennial top 10 intersection is Highway 121 & Preston Road in Plano, TX. There are lots of expensive cars in that area; if everyone there drove 5-year old Hyundai's I doubt it would make the list. Either that or the nearby EDS campus is really a cover for an organized insurance fraud ring.

Just like my gf

[Shard013 (530636)]

The buttons don't work

Re:Just like my gf

[xkenny13 (309849)]

Sure they do, you just need to use the ol' "three finger salute" ... know what I mean?

Re:Just like my gf

[notque (636838)]

Are you sure it isn't user error?

They're not doing it right!

[General Sherman (614373)]

Everybody knows the more times you push it, the faster it goes. Geez.

Re:They're not doing it right!

[ReidMaynard (161608)]

I had worker-bee programmer friend (geez, way back in 1986) who had the deadly combination Karate-hard fingers and a real hatred of comuter keyboards. Sixty days was about the longest they lasted with him; I remember more than once seeing a key launch across the office out of the corner of my eye.

Just like the Tube

[robbieduncan (87240)]

Just like the Open (and Close) Door buttons on most of the London Underground. I see tourists pounding those open buttons on the Central Line all the time. It does nothing but they seem to feel better.

Psychology at work...

[Space cowboy (13680)]

Which is the point, of course. People do feel better if they think they've "done something" about any problem - even one as trivial as opening the currently-closed door. Passively waiting for something to happen doesn't come easily to many of us...

What I find odd are those who hit the 'summon elevator' button more than once - A lift algorithm isn't going to take into account the number of times you press, and I doubt the buttons are pressure-sensitive :-) In fact, it's more likely that the time-of-last-press is one of the inputs to the algorithm, with earlier presses having a priority. So the more you press, the less chance you have of getting a busy lift :-))

Simon

Re:Just like the Tube

[Jon Chatow (25684)]

No, they do have a point - the clueless push them, and those of us who have worked this out can share a knowing smirk. Highlights the day's commute, for me... ;-)

Heh.

[Denyer (717613)]

It's like Ctrl-Alt-Delete for the general public! ;)

or...

[uptownguy (215934)]

It's like Ctrl-Alt-Delete for the general public! ;)

...or voting...?

What a suprise

[Piethon (748147)]

This has to be a lie, the government would never waste our money and mislead us!

Government is actually trying to save money

[Linuxathome (242573)]

Actually, according to the article, those buttons aren't taken down in an effort to SAVE money, not waste it. At one point in time they did work, but because of the changes in technology (i.e. changes for emergency vehicles) and traffic patterns, these buttons turned out to be more a hassle then a benefit. But at least they do provide a somewhat "placebo" effect; that is, I am more likely to stay put at that corner on the off-chance that it does work rather than hastily trying to cross against traffic, thereby jeopardizing myself and oncoming traffic.

Televatorkinesis

[Penguinshit (591885)]

...is the belief that pressing the call button multiple times makes the elevator move faster.

I know it, and I still do it sometimes. Perhaps it's because I just like pushing buttons... like this button right he NO CARRIER

why did the chicken cross the road?

[stroustrup (712004)]

The answer is here finally!! Because the button doesn't work

I think

[jlechem (613317)]

Downtown SLC is the same way. They even have LED displays that count down the time until the light changes. It goes from yellow to red when it starts getting close to 0. It also makes a very audible beeping noise as well. If it's made it safer to walk downtown or not I have no clue.

pedastrians obey Laws?

[stonebeat.org (562495)]

I didn't know anyone in NY who waited for a the Walk Signal to turn before start walking. NewYorkers are best at finding the shortest possible route to their destination. And I dont blame them. It is pace of life they experience.

Re:pedastrians obey Laws?

[EngMedic (604629)]

quite so...the easiest way to pick out a tourist in the city is to watch to see if they stop before crossing the street. most of us just dodge between cars.

conversley, the easiest way to tell if someone in your city is actually from new york (or has spent a lot of time there) is to watch them jaywalk like nobody's buisiness.

In other news...

[by Anonymous Coward]

The Slashdot "Submit Story" button is also just a placebo. "We just post what we want, and we put some user's name on them, " says Malda.

Erm.... and?

[JayBlalock (635935)]

This hardly seems like news of any sort. The article contained (through inference) the entire reason for their continued existance - there are still intersections that rely on them.

Computer-controlled traffic lights work a lot better than the old-fashioned timed system. (well, unless the detector screws up, but that's rare) So allowing people to interrupt the sequence would do little good. At the same time, you don't want people standing on one of those 700 crosswalks which will never volunteer a "walk" sign for ages.

So, to make sure that the people use the button in the places they need to, it's easier to leave the buttons on all the intersections. Otherwise, people might not think to use the button when it's necessary, at least not without a lot of time and prompting.

Buttons

[Via_Patrino (702161)]

"same reason why people press the elevator button more than once.

And the same reason people press the reload or submit button more than once... When things don't show any evidence that they're doing what they're supposed to do.

Magic

[proverbialcow (177020)]

Funny, then, that I was just reading this article on a placebo switch that inexplicably worked!

http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/magic-story.html [catb.org]

Hmm... a better "Sex and the City" ending

[mao che minh (611166)]

Carrie, glancing back over her shoulder at Mr. Big, smiling to herself in complete satisfaction, presses the button and strides out into the busy NY street.

Carrie: "Life... I started thinking about Paris, and how love AAHGHHHRGHH!!!"

-- taxi cab grinds Carrie into the asphalt, and the credits begin to roll ---

Yes, my girl friend made me watch that damn show for an entire year. The demise of that vile, high-priced sitcom has filled me with a joy not felt since childhood.

Re:Hmm... a better "Sex and the City" ending

[noewun (591275)]

About five years ago I almost ran over Sarah Jessica Parker at Fifth Avenue and 23rd Street. I was coming down Fifth on my bike, moving quickly, taking the right onto 23rd. I looked around the turn and saw it was clear. I checked my left, which was clear, and then look right again to see a mass of blonde curls and boobs running in front me of. She realized I was there - I guess she hadn't checked before she crossed - and sped up. I leaned right and missed her by an inch or two.

I consider it one of the greatest missed opportunities of my life.

Control

[M. Baranczak (726671)]

There was something like that in a Kurt Vonnegut novel whose title has slipped my mind. Something about an automated spaceship with only two controls: a START button, and a STOP button (the latter isn't connected to anything.) The point being that humans feel better when they think they have control over their fate.

Actually, it's probably a moot point - I've never met a New Yorker who actually waits for the light.

Operative at some in Toronto

[AndroidCat (229562)]

At some intersections in Toronto, not only does the walk button work, but unless it's pressed, the walk signal never lights up. (Kind of a pain when the button isn't right at the corner and has a lot of snow around it.) It would be nice if they'd mark the "Cars Prefered" crossings to let people know.

Ha! Proven correct after all these years

[by Anonymous Coward]

I was once in a rather rocky relationship with a girl which ended when I told her not to bother pressing the button.

"It doesn't do anything, these juntions are automated."

"That is exactly the kind of cynical attitude I'm absolutely fed up with. You have no faith in anything."

She stomped off across the road like an enraged frogger, dodging the still flowing traffic.

A Story

[Crusty Oldman (249835)]

A guy I know was in charge of a medium-sized office. He was forever plagued by the women asking him to turn the thermostat up during the winter (the guys saying "turn it down, we're dying in here"). When the office was remodeled, he had a new thermostat installed in a closet, and had the old one unconnected. He put the biggest complainer "in charge" of that thermostat, and never had a problem since. True story.

Could be even worse

[jks (269)]

There is an intersection in the outskirts of Helsinki, Finland, where the push button works even worse. This is an intersection between two pretty big roads with major traffic, and there's a standard traffic light cycle going from "green for road A" to "green for road B", etc. If you are a pedestrian walking in the direction of either road, you need to push the button, and will eventually get a green light at the same time as the drivers on the same road. Now, guess what: the only way the button affects the lights is that you get a green light the next time it's possible -- if you don't push the button, the cycle is exactly the same except that the pedestrian light is red all the time. So the button does nothing but you need to push it to cross legally.

I love old time mechanical crosswalk setups

[MajorDick (735308)]

There was in town, until just a few years ago a fairly busy intersection that had a crosswalk and a very old button setup, it would when pressed within 5 or so seconds change the light, and would continue to as long as it was pressed, when we were kid we used to hold traffic up just for the fun of it, but at other times, you could time cars, press the button and watch them schreech to a halt.

Cleveland, Ohio, and elevators

[Dachannien (617929)]

In Cleveland, a large number of crossing signals are synchronized with the stoplights, which are timed, and there's no walk button at all. I know of at least one walk button, however, whose behavior is rather strange: If someone pushes the button, then a period of time goes by, the light changes, and the walk sign illuminates. If nobody pushes the button, then eventually the light will change, but the don't walk sign stays lit. Evidently, you're jaywalking unless you push the button, even if the light changes to be in your favor!

On a related note, ever notice how the "door close" button in most elevators does absolutely nothing? The button in the elevator where I work actually does function properly, letting you send yourself on your way about 6 seconds more quickly than without. If you're standing right by the panel, but you don't push the button - which everyone in the building knows will get you there sooner - everyone else starts shifting around uncomfortably, waiting for you to hurry up and push it. (I've actually seen one professor push the door open in an effort to squeeze another 15ms or so out of it!) But in the next building over, you can pound on the button, hold it in, kick it, or whatever, and the door doesn't close any faster than usual.

Re:Umm...

[ScottGant (642590)]

I don't believe that any of those buttons work.

I also belive that at the gas station, Regular, Plus and Premium Unleaded all go to the same tank underground.

Coke and Pepsi are all made at the same factory, with a little more sugar going into Pepsi.

I also think my dog is trying to control my brain, the way he looks at me I can just tell he wishes to destroy me...

Re:Umm...

[cliffy2000 (185461)]

"I also belive that at the gas station, Regular, Plus and Premium Unleaded all go to the same tank underground."
Actually, sir, according to a very reputable gas supplier that I know, many gas stations do NOT purchase higher octane fuel. It is far from a preposterous notion, in fact it is a reality at many, many gas stations.

Re:Umm...

[gcaseye6677 (694805)]

This is why you must look for the octane label, instead of just the word Premium. Mislabeling the octane of a gasoline for sale is a big time violation of the law.

Re:Umm...

[notque (636838)]

Isn't that a little obvious? I mean, do ANY of those buttons work anymore?

Of course they work, just press it a few more times....

Re:Like Boston?

[cpt kangarooski (3773)]

Well, the common practice in Boston is for people to cross when they feel like it and to drive when they feel like it.

So basically, unless traffic stops for some reason, people will cross at a break in traffic or when there are enough people to significantly outnumber the cars, forcing them to slow down. Likewise, cars will begin to go once most people have crossed.

It's not so much a matter of regulation as it is that the drivers in Boston are really very good, and are willing to drive to the limits of their abilities.

Scares the shit out everyone else though.

Re:Elevator close door buttons

[josecanuc (91)]

I think the reason that there is even a "Door Close" button on elevators is for the firefighters to gain full control of the elevator.

If you notice in elevators (at least in the U.S.) there is a keyslot where you can switch the elevator from Normal to Off or Fire mode. In Fire mode, the elevator doors don't open until you press the door-open button and they don't close until you press the door-close button.

So, the door close button doesn't normally work, but it's there for a reason.

Re:I had my suspicions

[gnu-generation-one (717590)]

Try Nottingham (the english one) for some really nice crossings, which actually detect a cyclist approaching on cycle-routes (embedded inductive sensor under the pavement) in enough time that it changes the lights in time for you to cross without even needing to slow down.

Now if only more junction designers could have a look at stuff like that, and see how convenient it is when things "just work"...

Dumb chirping signals

[rock_climbing_guy (630276)]

I heard this funny story about those dumb chirping signals. Here it is:

A friend from Vermont came to visit last week. When he heard the signal chirping, he asked me what it was for. I expained that the signal chirps so that blind people will know when the signal changes. He said, "Wow, that's awfully odd. In Vermont, we don't let blind people drive!"