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Welcome to the 'Plogging' World

Posted by Hemos on Mon May 17, 2004 12:03 PM
from the living-in-a-material-world dept.
Roland Piquepaille writes "No, it's not a typo. A plog is short for 'project log' like a blog is short for 'web log.' And plogs start to be used as tools to manage projects, especially in the IT world, as discovered Michael Schrage of the MIT. He reports his findings in an article published by CIO Magazine, "The Virtues of Chitchat." Schrage found that if plogs are not really commonplace, they're not exactly rare. And they are even used to manage large IT projects, such as ERP rollouts. I totally agree with him that a plog is of great value to integrate people in a team or to keep track of the advancement of a project. And you, what's your view? If you're a project manager, do you use a plog for better control? And if not today, will you use one in the future? This overview contains selected excerpts from Schage's article which will help you to answer the above questions."
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  • by tcd004 (134130) * on Monday May 17 2004, @12:03PM (#9174547) Homepage
    See this interesting short piece in FP [foreignpolicy.com] about how military contractors, the Office of Naval Research and Law enforcement agencies are testing plogs on their projects and networks.

    Tcd004
    • by *no comment* (239368) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:15PM (#9174683) Homepage Journal
      Funny thing is that most people firewall the original "plog" [pcwebopedia.com] from years ago. Just turn on finger, make a .plan and bingo, instant plog. Of course my .plan always consisted of an ascii middle finger so when someone fingered me, I fingered them back. So maybe this new way is better after all?
      • Stupid .plan tricks (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Rufus88 (748752) on Monday May 17 2004, @01:58PM (#9175741)
        I used to be able to tell when someone was fingering me. My .plan was a named pipe fed by a shell script. The script would netstat looking for fingerd connections, rsh to the source host, "ps -aux" for finger processes, and send me the results. I'd then send email to the person, asking "why are you fingering me?".
        • When I first came across named pipes I set up a program that would run '/usr/games/fortune' and send the output to the pipe. Anyone fingering me was pretty much guaranteed to get something different every time.
  • by gokubi (413425) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:04PM (#9174555) Homepage
    I recently started using Basecamp [basecamphq.com] from 37Signals for tracking projects. It's basically a "plogging" system with to-do lists, milestones, file uploading, and one of the most intuitive interfaces I've ever used on the web. I've been tracking internal projects in the way described in the article--I think it's great.

    It also makes it really easy to make client-extranet plogs where clients can comment on your entries. Really slick.
    • by nounderscores (246517) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:13PM (#9174662)
      hmm have to check that out.
      my uni uses tutos [tutos.org].

      and the software engineering documentation subject has "Document the building of your very own team management software" as their semester project [mu.oz.au]

      actually, in order to manage all the docs our team used a combination of roundup, mailman and B2 blog to make our own rapidly developed team work space...
      it was kinda ironic - using a collaborative online project management system to design a collaborative online project management system

      in the end, though, the strain of having 7 people work on 1 document through a webbased interface got too much so we ended up using CVS on the school unix servers
    • I am also a subscriber. I think the system is great. Area's of imporvement: 1. HTTPS 2. Groups 3. Protected catagories (so you can hide stuff from one group and not the other) I sent the developers a request on each item and recieved a response within 15 - 20 minutes saying that those features were in the works. I upgraded my account to a paid account at that moment due to the fact that they had responded personally to my email quicker than most companies respond with automated responses. I can't say
  • by Bobdoer (727516) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:06PM (#9174573) Homepage Journal
    We already have blogs, flogs, photologs, moblogs and now these plogs? Someone needs to stop making new terms up and just call them all logs.
    • by ericspinder (146776) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:16PM (#9174697) Journal
      In response to an internal tech newsletter about "what you wanted to see", I anwsered with an idea about an "internal forum" with postings about every project, it's general status, design and questions (and hopefully answers) on technology. Apparently only the name stuck, our "Forum" is an web page form to ask questions, which are to be answered by (appenently) the newsletter staff. In fact, I am only quessing about my idea being turned into an email page becuase I never heard a word back on my suggestion, not even a "hey, thanks" to indicate that it was even read; I suppose other people may have suggested such a "forum" (or even just the general idea).

      I glad the idea has a specific name, now that there is a buzz word attached to the idea maybe someone who matters will pick up on it and champion the idea, it would be useful, no matter what it's called.

    • by sootman (158191) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:25PM (#9174772) Journal
      "We already have blogs, flogs, photologs, moblogs and now these plogs? Someone needs to stop making new terms up and just call them all logs."

      There are too many words in English, period. From now on, let's just call all things "things."

      Oh, wait, what's the point of language again?
    • by sesaetaen (637921) on Monday May 17 2004, @01:14PM (#9175231)
      web log is to blog, as project log is to:

      1. a) tlog

      2. b) plog
        c) clog

      My logic would tell me a project log was a tlog (+ it sounds way cooler =)
      • d) flog

        as in "to flog the log", i.e. create a work of fiction to fulfill some project manager's dream of what should be happening. Not that I'm cynical or anything... but

        h
  • shameless plog.
    har, har.
  • Brings back memories, when we would check out each others' .project files... Hopefully this tool will be a little easier to manage.
    • Nostalgia... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by igrp (732252) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:42PM (#9174932)
      We used to use .project files to keep track of schedule changes, progress and project-related problems we had run into, too. It actually worked very well in small to medium-sized development groups.

      We would timestamp our .project files and each of us would have their login script finger the other group members, compare the timestamp to the one stored in a flat database (ASCII file) and then, if there were any changes, display the output of the finger command.

      Simple, yet effective (plus, it was geeky enough to make sure that nobody outside of R&D or Coding ever bothered to check the status of projects).

      These days, unfortunately, hardly anyone seems to be running fingerd and it's virtually always firewalled off to the outside world.

  • one word (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 17 2004, @12:07PM (#9174585)
    pwiki.
    They make for excellent documentation both for old and for new developers/users
    • I think this would be an excellent idea. I'm new to my current organization, and have no way to find out information except for the rather time-consuming process of calling/emailing/asking people. And when I do find something out, I have no way to record it except memory or, if I'm lucky, an email exchange.

      Setting up an organization-wide wikipedia for all issues from how the lunchroom works to how to contact payroll to the business logic for a certain process would provide an invaluable resource. And since

      • Re:one word (Score:5, Informative)

        by gmuslera (3436) <gmuslera@@@gmail...com> on Monday May 17 2004, @12:48PM (#9174984) Homepage Journal
        I'm using TikiWiki [tikiwiki.org] for projects, it provides me wiki pages, individual blogs for separate projects (and with wiki syntax), basic java drawing program for adding diagrams and collaborate on them, forums, comments and some granularity on permissions (i.e to limit what people can do on one project or another). The tool have a lot of more ways to collaborate, but with those functions are enough for most normal uses.
  • by pavon (30274) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:07PM (#9174590)
    Richard Stallman's page would be a Freedom Log, one of many in the new flogging scene.
  • SF (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Leffe (686621) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:08PM (#9174599)
    Could you consider SourceForge [sf.net] a 'plog'?
  • links (Score:5, Informative)

    by thebra (707939) * on Monday May 17 2004, @12:08PM (#9174602) Homepage Journal
    Palm Plog [dsandler.org], pLog [sourceforge.net]
  • I'm not sure that this site [plogs.net] is working under the same definition of "plog", but then again, I had never heard of a "project log" before this article.
  • Star Trek (Score:5, Funny)

    by danormsby (529805) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:08PM (#9174604) Homepage
    Why are there all these abbreviations anyway?

    Never heard James T. Kirk put an entry in the clog.

  • by jiffah (685832) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:08PM (#9174605)
    O.K. it's time to shut off the internet. Thanks for your participation everybody.
  • tlog? (Score:5, Interesting)

    If a web log is a blog, then shouldn't project log be a tlog?

    -m
  • Duh! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by imidazole2 (776413) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:10PM (#9174633) Homepage Journal
    People have been project blogging for a while. So someone comes up with the term PLOG and gets on slashdot? sigh.
  • by mikemacd (84328) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:11PM (#9174646) Homepage
    I've found that WIKIs [wikipedia.org] can be useful as a collaboration tool in the workplace.

    It can be a free form tool to coordinate various teams and projects. Its important to bear in mind though that even the best tool is no replacement for good management.

    The WIKI I'm currently using is TWIKI [twiki.org] which is GPL'd.
    • It can be a free form tool to coordinate various teams and projects. Its important to bear in mind though that even the best tool is no replacement for good management.

      IMHO, a free-form logging tool or discussion board serves two valuable purposes:

      1) On a free-form weblog or discussion board, it is much easier to be honest about problems. Compare that to formalised documents such as progress reports, where most people tend to play down issues because they think they can fix them themselves before the n

  • by thenextpresident (559469) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:11PM (#9174647) Homepage Journal
    all make me think of Barf's (John Candy) line in Spaceballs:

    "I'm a mog. Half-man, half-dog. I'm my own best friend."
  • Discussion groups (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tablizer (95088) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:13PM (#9174666) Homepage Journal
    For small projects, a "Wiki" system is nice because it is informal. It is kind of like a bunch of named note-pads where anyone (given access) can edit content. It has simplified editing conventions to avoid having to type HTML. For example, a bullet point can be created (upon rendering) simply by including an asterisk at the begginning of a paragraph. (Different wikis have different conventions.)

    But for larger groups a more formal "discussion group" may be more appropriate to keep track of who wrote what. These are generally hierarchical, AKA "threaded". The problem many of them have is that it is difficult to reference stuff outside of the hierarchy. They should use some kind of message numbering system so that one can easily make cross-branch references by typing in message numbers.

    However, many managers are not used to such systems and are sometimes intimidated by them. Some tend to be "verbal-oriented".
  • Do we really need 42 different names for what is basicly the samething?
  • Too many Slashdot stories are coming from other blogs. Quote from original content, please.
  • by thehive (698558) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:16PM (#9174696)
    A few months back i setup a blog to help out our team to help manage the knowledge we acquire throughtout the projects duration. My managers fourtunately approved it. Though it was well recieved throught the team, very few knew what a blog actually is and very few have actually used it. It is rather unfortunate that some employees do not do anything other than things which are manadatory. I'm sure people would have used it much more if it was made mandatory to record all their experiences but we know that it's not possible. An oft quoted excuse is time. Blogging does take time and i totally agree with that but what is not being considered is the time that would be saved by someone else who would come across the same problems after a month or two.
  • XP (Score:3, Informative)

    by MikeHunt69 (695265) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:16PM (#9174701) Journal
    I've worked with Thoughtworks [thoughtworks.com] on a few projects and they looove XP [extremeprogramming.org]. They also love the idea of refactoring and used to keep a project wiki for each project - similar to what is being described here, except without the historical info.
    Martin Fowler, owner of Thoughtworks and XP evangelist, keeps a Bliki [martinfowler.com] (his name for a cross between a Blog & a Wiki)
  • by lpangelrob2 (721920) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:19PM (#9174724) Journal
    We too also use a Wiki to communicate. Unfortunately a quick glance at the "Recent Changes" page shows the last change was made on February 28th despite three large projects between then and now.

    About the only thing proven here is that when e-mail is shown to be sufficient, it's sufficient, and developers won't be quick to jump to other technologies, even when they are more useful.

    • Wiki success. (Score:3, Interesting)

      In contrast, our internal Wiki (a JSPWiki [jspwiki.org] instance) grows by leaps and bounds, currently at the rate of 400 new pages a month, and typically 50+ edits a day. There was never any official pronouncement to make it so; I actually started it here just for myself.

      I think it took off because it was adopted by some high-profile and prolific people, and thus "It's in the Wiki" and "put it in the Wiki" became common phrases. I think that these combined to make it the "official" place to keep vital information. Qui

  • by goatbar (661399) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:30PM (#9174813) Homepage
    Not too surprising. We used this all the time for the MER rovers at JPL. We used aim chat groups with a logging robot (easy enough to write one using say Net::AIM). Lots of design discussions and training sessions were done through IM and then became a part of the project documentation. Then grep and search when you forget something. Just don't say anything too obnoxious while chatting...
  • by broothal (186066) <christian@fabel.dk> on Monday May 17 2004, @12:39PM (#9174909) Homepage Journal
    I've been looking for something like this for a long time. Unfortunately, plogging doesn't satisfy my every need. So - let me ask the project managers of slashdot (I know you're out there) - what do you use as project collaboration/management tool? Someone posted a link to "Basecamp" which seemed ok (unfortunately it require credit information just to try a free demo). Are there other tools like that? How do they measure up?

    I've been thinking about wiki, but it's a tad to difficult to be useful - my teams usually consists of developers, DB people, graphic designers, customers etc. They'd never learn the simple wiki markup.
  • by GileadGreene (539584) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:41PM (#9174925) Homepage
    Blogs or plogs are all well and good, but the problem is that getting anyone to write any kind of documentation is hard. There will always be design decisions that get made but never recorded. Personally, I think that the method of extracting design rationales from an analysis of a project email archive that was proposed in this [u-tokyo.ac.jp] paper would be more useful than a plog, in that it captures the actual consensus and decision-making process, rather than relying on people to go out of their way to write extra information down after the fact. Admittedly, it misses decisions made in verbal interchanges, but it does catch a lot of stuff that would otherwise be missed (I know that many of the projects I've worked on recently have resolved many design issues via email exchanges).

    As an aside: who is Roland Piquepaille, and how does he manage to get an article in /. every other day [slashdot.org]?

  • by symbolic (11752) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:57PM (#9175079)

    There are so many details to track, and so many nuanced changes that can creep into the process. Rather than sit and wonder how in hell things ended up the way they are, and even more importantly, why specific courses of action where chosen over others, a project log is an invaluable tool. This is unfortunately, an area where almost every PIM falters miserably, since they all make the same limited assumptions: every event will have a start/end date, a start/end time, and will involve one or more participants. Project logging requires some very basic information: date, time, summary, category, and a text field that can accommodate a lengthy (up to 32K) description. All fields should be searchable. I will be very happy when I see KOrganizer or any of the other common Linux-based PIMs with this feature.
  • by dmorin (25609) <dmorin@NOSpAM.gmail.com> on Monday May 17 2004, @01:19PM (#9175291) Homepage Journal
    Here at work we have two primary ways of communicating, when you don't count chance meetings in the hall. First is a Twiki, second is a developer's mailing list. In putting up a blog I'm hoping to address some of the weaknesses of both:
    • Twiki seems best at spec and document level stuff, but not ongoing conversation. You have to put forth a medium amount of effort to set up a twiki topic properly (i.e. don't just put it up and then email people the link -- LINK TO IT from a main contents page someplace!)
    • Twiki gets out of date way too easily. I started working here and found a page called "Todo Items" for my project. Cool, I read it - it was like 2 years old, I had no clue whether anything was still even relevant.
    • Developer's mailing lists, which are great for conversation, are too easily branched and forgotten. I always see email to "developers" and "cc tom and steve" even though tom and steve are developers. Why? PRobably to get more attention in their inbox. Fine. But inevitably a part of the conversation will then go only to tom and steve when somebody hits the wrong reply button.
    • Another problem with developer lists is that not everybody wants to know everything all the time. We already all get enough email. Plus, what if somebody who is not on the developers list is interested in the topic?
    • Email ends up all over the place. I get my work email at home. Sometimes, for whatever reason, I respond from my home address - and then replies sometimes go there, sometimes to work, depending on how people reply. Or I'm at home and I want to see a particular message that I had already popped on my desktop at work - so now I'm grepping through my workstation's filesystem looking for it. A blog would centralize all that, and provide nice searching functionality.

    My team has a number of large projects going at any time. If everybody project reported it's progress regularly to the "all" mailing list we would quadruple our traffic, and nobody would read anything. So instead I plan to set myself up a blog, tell people that it exists, and maintain it. If people want to read it, super. If they want to get into conversation, even better. I was gonna say "If it flops..." but I dont think it will, because at the very least it'll be a place where I can keep all my own thoughts on things and be my own braindumping ground.

  • by PDHoss (141657) on Monday May 17 2004, @01:39PM (#9175482)
    4/14: This project sucks. I hate you all.

    4/13: This project sucks. I hate you all.

    4/12: This project sucks. I hate you all.

    4/11: Hot chick from Marketing was at meeting. Woohoo!

    4/10: This project sucks. I hate you all.
  • nntp (Score:3, Insightful)

    by StrawberryFrog (67065) on Monday May 17 2004, @01:42PM (#9175528) Homepage Journal
    Oh look. nntp has been reinvented, only without the standardisation.
    • Re:piquepaille (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) on Monday May 17 2004, @12:28PM (#9174798)
      I have to say, RP's blog is as uninteresting as it comes, and gets way too much Slashdot time. RP almost reminds me of Jon Katz, without the sometime amusing I'm-not-sure-what-was-in-that-cigarette effect.

      MOD PARENT UP, he has a very valid point.