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Less is More: Thunderbird 0.7 Review
Posted by
michael
on Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:51 PM
from the did-someone-say-thundercats? dept.
from the did-someone-say-thundercats? dept.
comforteagle writes "In part two of our look at Mozilla's less is more approach to thunderbird and firebird, Gareth Russell has finished the examination with a look at the newly released Thunderbird 0.7. Part one dealt with firefox and was discussed here on slashdot as well."
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Had to go back to 0.6 (Score:4, Interesting)
I went a whole day thinking I had no mail. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Had to go back to 0.6 (Score:5, Informative)
No, I have not yet reported this, as I don't have a clue how to reproduce it.
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Re:Had to go back to 0.6 (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Had to go back to 0.6 (Score:5, Informative)
I had problems with the installer version, mostly unstable and slow and none of the extensions would install. And I was doing a clean install so no issue of migrating from 0.8 or anything.
Anyway long story short, after tring install/uninstall (delete profile folder) for about 2 hours, I just got the zip and unzipped in C:\, and it works like charm. All my favourite extensions are back on.
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Re:Had to go back to 0.6 (Score:4, Informative)
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What about the lawsuit? (Score:4, Funny)
One word (Score:3, Funny)
The futuristic (no pun intended) car inlaid with the beaks of 1000 eagles!
Re:What about the lawsuit? (Score:5, Funny)
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OMFG (Score:3, Funny)
someone has to say this.. (Score:4, Funny)
Few teething problems, but good overall (Score:4, Informative)
I've been using both Firefox (since 0.7) and Thunderbird (since 0.4) for a while now, and I've recently upgraded. I seem to have hit a bit of a bug with having too many FireFox extensions installed, but beyond that slight problem, FireFox and Thunderbird seem to be going from strength to strength these days.
Anyone who is still on OE or IE should seriously consider a switch, because they include things which you should really have by default in your software. Firefox has tabbed browsing and integrated popup blocking, and Thunderbird has built in encryption, supports PGP extensions, and has integrated "smart" spam filtering.
What more could you ask?
Re:Few teething problems, but good overall (Score:4, Interesting)
That said, I'd love a couple of more features in Firefox, namely the Forms tool from Mozilla, and the ability to default cookies to a set maximum lifetime. (Forms tool is probably an extension, just haven't found it yet) I'd also love to be able to block cookies from entire subnets (probably haven't read the appropriate part in the manual about how to set this) such as *.doubleclick.net, and *.hitbox.com. Being able to do this upon the resulting "Prompt to accept cookies" dialog would be very cool and user friendly.
Those would be enough on Firefox. Thunderbird, the list is very very long on additional features. However, I'd like the current features to work more smoothly, and some interface improvements would be nice (have just downloaded 0.7, so I haven't delved into it yet, but I strongly suspect the UI friendly things I want won't be in there)
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Re:Few teething problems, but good overall (Score:3, Informative)
Just download Adblock [mozilla.org] from the Firefox update site [mozilla.org]
Re:Few teething problems, but good overall (Score:4, Informative)
If you use Opera for a bit, you'll find lots of neat little UI additions that would suit FireFox well. In particular, the notes tab. That's pretty slick. I can highlight your post, right click, and say "copy to note". Then, in the notes tab, I'll see the first sentence of your post. If I single click it, the entire section I copy/pasted will appear. If I double click it, it'll show me the page it came from. I've been using that for cell phone hunting. It's a LOT easier than trying to come up with good names bookmarks.
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Re:Few teething problems, but good overall (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Few teething problems, but good overall (Score:3, Informative)
Yep, you're right, I got a little confused there. Sorry about that. Interesting note, though, the notes feature works in Opera's mail tab as well. So if a particular email is important to me, I can copy to note and have a nice little bookmark for it. Slick.
"Opera has an e-mail client, it's unfortunate that it's so garbage, though."
Opera's mail client is pretty crappy, no argument there. I did find a good use for what it does do, though. I created a seper
Re:Few teething problems, but good overall (Score:4, Interesting)
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Multiple IMAP (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Multiple IMAP (Score:3, Informative)
What is more, and this may be good to point out to other Thunderbird users, this release finally fixed a bug with accessing IMAP over SSL. Before, Thunderbird would start to hang after a few (e.g. 10-ish) minutes of inactivity, and the only solution would be to quit and re-start. This version fixed that issued.
Another issue (with all previous releases - I used them all) was with saving outgoing mail to the 'Sent' folder. It worked only half the time or less. This version sends emai
getting real slow (Score:5, Informative)
by Gareth Russell
Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7 is the new lightweight email and newsgroup client from the Mozilla Foundation; it's a new take on the email client and has been built almost from the ground up, with the proven Gecko rendering engine. As with Mozilla Firefox its main aim is to try and satisfy the average user's requirements, with a minimum amount of fuss. Email clients over the years have tended to suffer from "feature creep" and "bloat", Thunderbird removes the clutter such as Intstant Messaging integration which you may never use. Thunderbird has all of the basic features you'd expect to find in any email client, with IMAP and Pop3 support, email filters and the ability to manage multiple accounts. Thunderbird also contains many other non-standard features such as built in junk mail filtering, S/MIME, digital signing, message encryption, spell checking and a flexible user interface. On top of this, Thunderbird is possibly the most extendible browser available with its excellent extension system, allowing you to create an email client that suits you.
Thunderbird 0.7's changes, include: a smaller download size for Windows, speed improvements in Windows, Linux and Mac OS X, new themes and extensions managers, as well as a talkback program for the unlikely event that Thunderbird crashes. A number of bugs have been squashed for the release, helping to iron out any rough edges which existed in the previous editions. The most important change in 0.7 is the overhaul of the extension system with new extensions controls allowing for easier management of extensions and which, now make it possible to update your extensions to the latest versions without having to go and manually download them.
The Interface
As with Firefox, Mozilla Thunderbird features a stripped down interface, which is more thought out than previous editions of Mozilla Messenger. The default graphical interface features a three-pane setup much like Microsoft Outlook Express or the original Mozilla Messenger. On top of this; however, Thunderbird provides three other default settings including an interesting three pane vertical arrangement, which manages to use more of the display area to display your emails than the standard setting. Most importantly though, Thunderbird does not try to restrain you by its interface and its easy to customise the layout by adding new buttons to the toolbars or to add new window panes for content to get it exactly how you want it.
Junk Mail
One of the most attractive features of Thunderbird is the advanced Junk Mail filters included my default in Mozilla Thunderbird. The Junk Mail is adaptive by using a system of Bayesian filtering, this learns what is junk mail and what is not by you indicating to Thunderbird whether it is or is not junk. Junk can be defined by simply checking a junk mail icon next to the subject of the email. When a similar email appears in your inbox, Thunderbird will indicate that it believes the message is junk with the option to correct it if it is wrong. It's surprising how short a period of time it takes, before Thunderbird catches all of your junk mail with no mistakes. It only took a couple of days, before my inbox was junk mail free, with only a couple of false positives. Thunderbird can also be told to move the junk immediately to a temporary folder or to delete it straight off. This really sets it apart from programs such as Outlook Express which don't have built in junk mail controls, as you'll no longer to be forced to wade through a load of junk mail just to read you emails. No more time wasted moving all those offensive pornography emails which you receive to your work email address, no more time wasted deleting those university diploma emails and in particular no more being caught out by those emails with the viruses attached. Thunderbird really is revolutionary as an email client, when it comes to dealing with junk mail.
Security
Thunderbird includes S/MINE email support, which is a
Won't start. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Won't start. (Score:3, Informative)
When you install it they specifically tell you not to install it over any older version, if people would just read the text in front of their faces, they wouldn't have such problems.
Since themes and extension formats are s
One wish.. (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm tired of having multiple:
Fred.Mertz@Lucy.Com
Fred.Mertz@lucy.com
fred.mertz@lucy.com
etc...
Re:One wish.. (Score:5, Funny)
Fred.mertz@lucy.com
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Re:One wish.. (Score:5, Funny)
I imagine Ricky is getting more fed up with it than you are. Someone has some 'splaining to do.
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Re:One wish.. (Score:3, Insightful)
The build is not exactly staightforward, IMO.
The only problem I have... (Score:4, Funny)
I am very concerned (Score:5, Insightful)
Mozilla's crucial mistake early on was deciding it needed to be a platform. If this had just meant developing a cross-platform gui and tools, or just developing a whole application suite, it might not have been a problem. But they decided to do both. It cost them, and it continues to cost them.
IBM's Eclipse project is a good example of how to do a platform. Start small with one app: in Eclipse's case, an IDE. Then build the rest of the stuff around the skeleton: IBM's new Workplace package is basically built from Eclipse plugins.
But continuing to devote resources to Seamonkey is just a bad idea. Not only is it a distraction from making the small, focused apps better; but keeping around Mozilla as an Emacs-style do-everything suite does IMHO damage to the brand name. I for one have nothing but bad memories of Netscape, because of the ungodly bloat of Communicator. Any project that continues to officially perpetuate that mistake loses respect in my mind, and I would guess in many others' as well.
Re:I am very concerned (Score:5, Informative)
That mozilla IS a platform is the very reason that development on firefox and thunderbird went this fast. Firefox and thunderbird share all of their backend code with the full suite. Only the actual UI is not shared. That kind of freedom allows quickly creating entirely new applications on top of the mozilla framework. It also means that development on the backend benefits all mozilla project apps.
I'd like you to show quotes from an actual mozilla developer (and not one who quit before mozilla really got going, like jwz) who agrees with your point of view. Creating the platform is what saved the mozilla project.
Besides, the only way to compete effectively with microsoft is to offer an alternative vision to developers. The platform is key in that. Mozilla, without becoming a platform, would be like opera: forever irrelevant.
But continuing to devote resources to Seamonkey is just a bad idea. Not only is it a distraction from making the small, focused apps better; but keeping around Mozilla as an Emacs-style do-everything suite does IMHO damage to the brand name.
The seamonkey suite is not a distraction, because like I explained, most of the code is shared among all the mozilla projects. The only thing the suite has for itself is the UI, and that is only getting maintenance development. It's really not true that firefox and thunderbird compete for developer resources with the app suite.
Now, I will agree that it does some damage to the brand to have so many products. But on the other hand, the suite still has a lot of users who find things of use in there they don't find in the separate apps. Cutting them off would not be nice, and would make corporate users less likely to ever use a mozilla product again.
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SeaMonkey is in maintenance mode (Score:3, Interesting)
Calling International Rescue! (Score:4, Funny)
YahooPOPs Broke, GF doesnt like Thunderbird now :( (Score:3, Interesting)
I just recently rebuilt my g/f's computer, removing IE, MSN, etc, and installing OO.o, Firefox, and the like. (Thank you the open cd [sunsite.dk] ) She liked how fast her computer was now that the spyware was gone, but she could NOT stand how Firefox rendered the fonts on the Yahoo Mail page "incorrectly" (dear God! What will I do now!). Thankfully I ran across this nifty little project on source forge called Yahoo Pops which acts as a SMTP/POP3 server on localhost and bridges the gap between your favoriate email client and the Yahoo Webmail service. That evening I VNC'd into her computer, installed YahooPOPs and Thunderbird 0.6 and hooked her up with a cute theme with a rotating penguin in the top right (She's all about some Tux racer). I showed her how to use it and she loved it. No more ads, no more waiting for the web pages to load, spell checking, the whole 9!
But just when I thought I had sold her on the wonderfullness that is Open Source (I'm on my way to getting her to suse) Yahoo decided they are going to try to compete with G-Mail and offer 100MB to their free customers, as well as a few other minor "improvements". To make a long story short the upgrade broke YahooPOPs and thus Thunderbird. We were both very disapointed.
Now she found a way to open IE by typing "iexplore" on the run line and is using Yahoo Mail again. Its going to be hard to get her to try open source again, but for some reason she cant keep off Tux Racer. (PS: Go neverball!).
Any advice on ways to keep her using Thunderbird? Its really a great product and if my company wasnt tied religiously to MS Outbreak I would be putting it on every desktop in the place.
Thunderbird Wishlist (Score:5, Insightful)
2. Integration with Jabber. IM + Email would be cool. I like how Windows Messenger does this, but with Thunderbird it would actually be secure
3. Better LDAP integration. Current LDAP implementation is kludgy, I wish they would make it smoother.
4. Fix the calendar app. It's nice, but could be a whole lot nicer. The original Netscape calendar app wasn't bad, I much prefer it over Outlook.
5. Import/Export filters. There are third party filters already, it would be nice if they were built in. Import
6. How about a text mode interface for uberhackers? It could be really lightweight, just ctrl- to go back and forth, ctrl-r to reply, etc...
That's it. It shouldn't add too much bloat, the basic Jabber protocol is small and GnuPG integration should be cake. Any other ideas?
Re:Thunderbird Wishlist (Score:4, Interesting)
You are reverting back to where we came from --> "I think besides email, it should be able to browse newsgroups. oh yeah, and an integrated IRC chat client...and maybe an HTML composer."
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Just moved from Mozilla 1.6; will have to revert (Score:4, Interesting)
E.g. with a group of tabs on the tab bar
Mozilla: click on tab, all tabs open & start loading
Firefox: you get dropdown; for maximum hassle, the choice I want(Open in tabs) is always at bottom. Nor have I found way to set "add tabs" versus "replace tabs" preference.
If Mozilla did not exist, I would use Firefox. But for now, tabs mean I prefer Mozilla.
Re:Just moved from Mozilla 1.6; will have to rever (Score:3, Informative)
To get a group of bookmarked tabs to open in addition to your already opened tabs in Firefox, do the following:
1) Open a new tab, type about:config, hit enter.
2) Find the entry called browser.tabs.loadFolderAndReplace, and double click
Just this week... (Score:5, Interesting)
One thing everyone especially likes is the multiple mail account handling. Having separate folders for each account is very cool and makes organizing messages very intuitive. The only thing we're missing is Outlooks ability to insert multiple 'signatures'. Anyone know if this is currently possible in TBird? Having blocks of pre-typed text ready to go at the click of your mouse is a real time-saver. One kludge we came up with is to keep a message in the Drafts folder that contains the needed text but that's a rather clumsy solution.
We are a small company so this changeover is pretty insignificant in the overall scheme of things but... it's a start. With the warm reception TBird received from my users at work (they really were getting sick of Outlook), I figure they'll go install it on their home computers. Their wives and kids will see it and begin to use it. They'll tell their friends, etc., etc... Word of mouth is a GoodThing(TM).
Personally, I've been using TBird since it was first released and have never had any problems with it. Maybe I'm just lucky but it's been rock-solid for me. I currently use TBird on WinNT4 at work and on my laptop, which runs Mandrake 9.2. My wife, (who is not in the least computer literate), has no trouble at all with TBird on her Win98 box. This open source app is ready for mass use!
Malicious site for Mozilla users (Score:3, Interesting)
Is this a proof of acceptance or is it an alarm signal?
I'm waiting for Thunderfox (Score:3, Funny)
Mozilla Sunbird (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Extensions (Score:3, Informative)
You should have expected that. (Score:5, Informative)
Part of the development process is settling in on a format you want to use to store data in, and this format changes regularly in the approach to a 1.0 release. It would be far too much effort for them to support formats that they don't consider to be final. After 1.0 hits they will have to maintain compatiblity.
Long story short, if you are looking for something to handle your data well, use an already stable app. Then, if you want Mozilla apps, switch to them once they release 1.0.
It's your fault you lost data, not theirs.
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Re:You should have expected that. (Score:3, Interesting)
Which isn't the greatest attitude when you are trying to get some loving for an alternative browser by non-techies.
I had managed to convice a fair few people to switch from IE to Firefox 0.8, and they were enjoying it, and were prepared to put up with not being able to go to some of their favorite sites (yes, even with the pretend to be IE extension [chrispederick.com]). But when the latest version of Firefox hit, and they decided to install it, the fact that it removed their bookm
Re:What standards does it support? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:how about sperating out composer and adding to (Score:3, Funny)
<span id="main">
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<div>Make <
<div>mind.</div> <div>Do</div> <div>y ou</div>
<div>want</div> <div>function ality</div>
<div>or</div>
<div>Front page</div
Try NVU (Score:4, Informative)
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Why are you here, then? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:URLs still don't work (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:0.7 buggy ? (Score:4, Informative)
At least for me a huge step backwards from 0.5
You need to do a completely fresh install of 0.7. Lots of stuff changed. The entire extension system is different, so you need to install the updated enigmail. Cross-IMAP server moves work fine (just did one). And the tray icon for mail notificatiions is sitting in my systray right now.
The installation instructions [mozilla.org] should really be followed for the latest version!
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