XP Starter Edition Examined

de la mettrie writes "C-Net reports that analysts do not recommend using Microsoft's new 'Windows XP Starter Edition', a low-cost XP version aimed at the Asian market (and previously covered on Slashdot). The report notes that numerous networking features are removed, and the Starter Edition allows only three applications to be run concurrently. According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"

I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[by Anonymous Coward]

Starter Edition allows only three applications to be run concurrently. According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"

MWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Re:I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[eln (21727)]

Well it certainly helps reduce any confusion in comparing it to a half-decent operating system.

Re:I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[nial-in-a-box (588883)]

Yes, and the fact that Windows needs about a dozen applications running at any time to even be usable is interesting. I assume by application we now exclusively mean only those processes that show up in the task bar. I'm also assuming there will continue to be no limit to the amount of junk apps that run in the system tray and are almost exclusively terrible. worthless drains of memory and CPU time.

Re:I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[Matt Perry (793115)]

Yes, and the fact that Windows needs about a dozen applications running at any time to even be usable is interesting. I assume by application we now exclusively mean only those processes that show up in the task bar.

It won't take long to exceed that limit. An average student: Winamp, a word processor, a web browser. If the student needs to use his email for a moment, he'll have to close something. This will only encourage users to get a copy of the full Windows version so that they won't be limited in what they can do.

Re:I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[hawaiian717 (559933)]

An average student: Winamp, a word processor, a web browser. If the student needs to use his email for a moment, he'll have to close something.

Guess this hypothetical student will just have to use Mozilla Suite instead of the separate Internet Explorer and Outlook Express. Darn. ;)

Re:I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[1u3hr (530656)]

In other words, this won't reduce piracy; it's just a way for Microsoft to say "see, we care about the Asian market's needs! really!"

It's a way to sell a Windows license at a low price, without creating a product that can be sold through grey markets in the West. (This was made to compete with the Linux-installed PCs as part of the Thai govt's cheap PC plan.) Now Thais can buy a Windows PC, take it home, install Win XP full version. They've paid the "Microsoft tax" even though they're using pirated software.

Re:I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[Blue Stone (582566)]

John Lettice of The Register has an interesting take [theregister.co.uk]on the 'starter' edition:

...as Microsoft builds relationships with the local system builders it will become less and less feasible for businesses to get away with running pirate software. They'll be offered special upgrade deals to full versions, pulling them further into the 'ecosystem' too, and you can see clear parallels with the way Microsoft's sales efforts have progressed in the developed world.

The plan, therefore, is not to eradicate piracy in consumer markets, but to fuel the development of a 'legitimate' market in government and business while throttling any prospect of open source developing its own markets in the area. Government and business will, as in the developed world, pay a goodly price to Microsoft for its software, while Microsoft will be able to increase the number of PCs that ship with its software (any software will do) and hence yield it the Microsoft tax. The actual entry price paid by government isn't (as in the developed world) particularly relevant, so long as it enters) and whatever the end user shoves on the machine isn't anything like as important as it is for Microsoft to pick up the rent from them as part of the machine's price (as, also, in the developed world).

Not a Problem for MS.

[Stephen Samuel (106962)]

so while this verison is suppose to stop piracy, it's only encouraging it even more.

This isn't a problem for MS. Their real intent is to prevent users from getting PCs with Linux installed by default. Users that get Linux installed by default might just realize that it's better than (or at least as good as) Windows and keep it.

On the other hand, users who've never seen anything else will be more likely to just replace the hobbled version with a pirated version of Wintendos and, thus, keep the MS monopoly healthy.

If a reasonably large minority of Taiwanese people/organizations were to start using Linux on a regular basis, this might start "The Domino Effect" (as per cold war thinking).

Re:I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[Dogtanian (588974)]

As long as they only run all aplications inside Emacs, it is no problem ;-)

I was going to make a comment about Emacs not coming with a decent text-editor... but then I remembered it has a vi clone built in. :-P

Now I'm going to get modded into oblivion by the rabid masses of Emacs zealots.

Damn, that was stupid.

Re:I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[hey (83763)]

You can make a program keep running but not show in the task bar by hiding the main window. ie:

ShowWindow(ghwndMain, SW_HIDE);

Programs can hide other programs (security hole but that's another issue). So maybe somebody will write an application that show you all your running apps and give you an easy way to toggle if they are showing or now.

Dilbert

[twalk (551836)]

This one always sticks in my mind: "Employees will be leased and branded in order to improve morale!"

Re:I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[pHatidic (163975)]

The asians are a smaller people, so they need proportionately less.

/the karma hit is worth it just to make that joke :)

Re:I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[lysander (31017)]

Starter Edition allows only three applications to be run concurrently.

Wouldn't that make it a great gaming OS? That's all I use windows for anyway nowadays. Maybe kiosks and net cafes will start using it.

Re:I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[Ianoo (711633)]

I doubt it, since display resolution is limited to 800x600.

Re:I'm going to be laughing at this one for days

[Zaiff Urgulbunger (591514)]

Nope - Starter Ed. is limited to very small fire arms, slightly blunt knives and various kitchen implements.

What I want to know...

[BJH (11355)]

...is what Microsoft is trying to do with this release. It's obvious it won't help at all to stem the flow of pirate copies of the full version of XP, it certainly won't sell to businesses, and it'd be suicide for any hardware manufacturer to use it as their pre-loaded OS.

Re:What I want to know...

[djblair (464047)]

I think MS will sleep soundly knowing NOBODY will pirate this OS.

Re:What I want to know...

[TibbonZero (571809)]

People pirate crap all the time, just look up N'Sync on any filesharing service...

Re:What I want to know...

[cpu_fusion (705735)]

> What I want to know is what Microsoft is trying to do with this release.

Microsoft market research had concluded that hatred for Microsoft was lowest in asia, so they pulled together, worked long nights, and have tackled that problem with the usual Microsoft gusto.

Re:What I want to know...

[praksys (246544)]

I suspect this is a negotiation move. MS complains to third world nation: "Do something about all the rampant piracy." Third world nation replies: "No one here can afford your software anyway, so the piracy is not cutting into your market." MS replies: "Now they can afford the starter/crippleware version, so it is cutting into our market."

Re:What I want to know...

[mangu (126918)]

MS replies: "Now they can afford the starter/crippleware version, so it is cutting into our market."

To which third world nation will reply: "we have reached a 100% efficiency in fighting piracy - there is not a single pirated copy of your starter/crippleware version for sale anywhere in our country".

Re:What I want to know...

[jez9999 (618189)]

First, Microsoft created a non-multitasking OS.
Then, they created a multitasking OS.
Then, they created a pre-emptive multitasking OS.
Now, they have created... a triple-tasking OS.

It's not a step backward, honest!

mmmm.... design conference

[phyruxus (72649)]

Lead dev: Guys, Angela, we're got to get this XP Starter Edition finished. Where do we stand?

Dev A: We're on target with everything except the usual... the numerous bugs

Lead dev: Features, call them features..

Dev A: --features, we couldn't adapt are a security haz- er, configuration issue.

Lead dev: Okay, noted. Siramanthar?

Dev B: Marketing says the configuration issues will not greatly impede sales. But like all our releases, it leaks memory like a sieve. I've spent the last thirty straight days staring at teh debugger... it's just too arcane. The original code was written under the influence of a beer whose like I have not yet tasted.

Lead dev: About that; I've got a solution from above, but it's not pretty. (developers eye each other uneasily.) We're going to limit the user to running only three programs at a time.

Dev C: Isn't that throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

Dev A: Won't our users laugh at us?

Dev B: I don't even want to think about what slashdot will say about this....

Lead dev: People, this is direct from the central Hive. We have no choice. Besides, it worked for the celeron. Now, Make Your Time. *clap*

Give them some credit! (Asians, not MS)

[djblair (464047)]

"..this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"

This new user base may be overseas, but they aren't retarded.

Just look at the quote!

[Ieshan (409693)]

Just look at the quote. Microsoft originally said, "the limitations helps [those pitiful wastes of resources who use our software] stay organized and reduces confusion."

Media kindly substituted in "[users]".

Re:Give them some credit! (Asians, not MS)

[edunbar93 (141167)]

This new user base may be overseas, but they aren't retarded.

Spoken like a man who's never done tech support.

They don't need to be overseas to be retarded. They just need to be your average end-user.

85+% of the people that use the internet never use anything more complicated than MSN and e-mail.

Most of the people I have to talk to on the phone think they have to close any open windows before opening any more. Or for that matter, opening the Start menu. Even if they do have more than one open window, they have no idea how to switch between them.

These are all things that are the very simplest tasks to us, but most people have no idea about them. These are the people that make up Microsoft's target market.

Re:Give them some credit! (Asians, not MS)

[The-Bus (138060)]

No, you work in tech support.

The people that have NO problem using Windows aren't calling you. The people that have issues and are "retarded" are the ones that you're "helping" -- that doesn't mean all people are retarded.

In other news

[cpu_fusion (705735)]

Microsoft went on to proclaim the security benefits of this latest release: "Only three instances of worms, spyware, and trojans can run at once!"

Re:In other news

[aussersterne (212916)]

I was actually going to make the same post, only not as amusingly.

I think people are gonna end up with three pointless crapware items in their tray and then won't even be able to launch an application.

Second-class Windows for Second-class Asia

[by Anonymous Coward]

According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"

Because the poor, simple peoples of Asia can't handle the complexities of the full versions of Windows XP? I, for one, am offended.

Increased productivity

[mukund (163654)]

According to Microsoft, this limitation `helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'

Microsoft's new product: MS-DOS Reloaded?

Re:Increased productivity

[Waffle Iron (339739)]

Microsoft's new product: MS-DOS Reloaded?

There are more advantages to DOS than just the simplicity of single-tasking. Before version 2.0, DOS didn't support directories. Could reverting to DOS 1.0 simplify searches and end user confusion over file system hierarchies as well? I think that the WinFS team should take a look.

(Opens search dialog:) => Where is the 3rd quarter inventory report for Consolidated Products?

(The animated dog instantly replies:) => It's on C:

You must be new here

[teamhasnoi (554944)]

Instead, because of the unnecessary limitations introduced in XPSE, Microsoft will likely be perceived as pushing an upgrade path and frustrating users.

Isn't this in their mission statement or something?

Economics of software

[TheOtherChimeraTwin (697085)]

Funny how they go to the extra expense of removing features from Windows (making the code changes and testing the result isn't free), and then they charge less for the product.

I guess they are saving money by not filling as much of the CD :)

UOS

[gcantallopsr (451114)]

I've just developed the Ultimate Operating System. It further reduces confusion among users by issuing a HALT instruction right after a bare minimum startup. I've successfully tested it under x86 and x86-84, and I'm looking for PowerPC 32/64 developers. GNU GPL license. Most compact kernel ever (I call it vendeko-kernel). And no problems with drivers, since it doesn't need them!

Why do they cripple these versions?

[foidulus (743482)]

Are they worried about them being re-exported? If so, they should not cripple the functionality, but cripple the languages. Make it so that all the menus text boxes etc. are only in one language(that cannot be changed). I doubt people in the US want Thai menus etc. They should still be allowed to type in other languages though.

Three? We should be so lucky...

[Soulfader (527299)]

Maybe it's targeted at those people still hanging on to WinME, which was lucky to run ONE app at a time...

No, no, no, they're right!

[Saint Aardvark (159009)]

Limiting the OS to three running processes helps things IMMENSELY. For example: recently my dad asked for help installing Linux on his laptop. I got a copy of Mandrake Linux and customized the kernel thusly:

struct ps {
[ the usual stuff here...]
} [3];

Remake the package, remake the CD and off it went. Now, when he boots his laptop, here's what runs:

1. init
2. getty (one instance)
3. login (which execs into bash)

And boy, was it worth it: I no longer have to answer any questions about GNOME, mounting a USB pen drive, modem drivers. why KOffice messes up the PowerPoint presentation he's trying to read, why he can't run those funky .pif email attachments from his friends, or any of that crap.

But hey, I know he's going to learn, and will eventually outgrow StarterLinux(tm). I've let him know that once he's got the hang of this he can $$upgrade$$ to Full-On-Whiz-Bang Linux. In fact, if he wants to send the money to me I'll even order it for him.

Nice explanation there, Microsoft

[Jugalator (259273)]

According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"

OK, so Windows XP Home is confusing to use then?
Can we expect this new clever feature in Longhorn?

*sigh*

Don't they even think before talking?

Windows XP DOS Edition?

[atcurtis (191512)]

Why not limit it to only running 1 application at any time... that way users won't get confused at all ....

only three?

[binarybum (468664)]

so let's see...

1. Gator
2. Casino.net
3. Cydoor

hey! that doesn't even leave me room to run Bonzi Buddy!

Inherently offensive

[c0dedude (587568)]

'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'

So people in the US can handle more than 3 apps, but people in S.E. Asia can't? What a bullshit excuse for throwing out a weak piece of crap.

Design happens first, then marketing...

[LostCluster (625375)]

Clearly, the three application to a session limitation and lack of networking were not features designed to make the OS simpler. They are limitations put in to intentionally criple functionality as that when a user sees a "starter edition" error message, they can also be presented with "That functionality is in the Home version. Please step up by paying..."

Three is clearly an arbitrarly chosen number based on research and testing... the marketing people were then given the number to work with and then spin it.

Price Discrimination and Piracy

[dedoleo (794851)]

Starter Edition sounds like a great example of legal price discrimination and turning a blind eye to piracy. Starter edition isn't exactly price discrimination. Price discrimination is when I charge a rich person $20 for a hamburger and a poor person $2 for the same hamburger, even though the hamburger cost me $1 to make. Why? Because I want all the money I can get from each person who can afford to pay. This is illegal. Starter Edition is not the same as Home or Professional, so it's not price discrimination, but the principal seems to be the same. Here's where the piracy comes in. Many people in California drive over the 65 speed limit on the freeway. In fact, you'll probably get honked at if you don't. You can even drive next to a cop at 75 with no problem. It's the unwritten law and what is expected. Publicly, Microsoft hates piracy, but to an extent, I believe they silently condone it. Here's why, and I'll use Adobe as an example. Some high school is playing with a pirated version of Adobe Photoshop at home. He can't afford Photoshop and none of his work is for profit or being sold. Adobe loses no money by his use of their product. Now, let's say he gets really good at Photoshop and some day goes pro. Either he, or his company, is going to buy Photoshop for him to use because 1) now he (or the company) has the money to make the purchase, and 2) it's the product that he knows. If he couldn't have pirated Photoshop back when he was a kid, he probably would have ended up using someone elses product and getting good at that. So, this type or piracy, though still illegal, is beneficial to Adobe. The real pirates they're trying to stop are the ones selling mass copies of their product. So this brings me to two, not necessarily exclusive, conclusions on Starter Edition. One) Starter Edition is a legal method similar to price discrimination to get any money possible from the Thais. Two) Starter Edition is a way to milk money from the piracy issue. People may buy this cheap OS instead of using Linux or pirating (because it's affordable). Then, having gained experience on the OS (similar to the high school kid with Photoshop) they will be more compelled to shell out for the full version than to switch to something they aren't accustomed to such as Linux. I feel the three application limit is not for simplicity, but to encourage an upgrade once the user gets used to Windows. An insightful poster earlier pointed out something good I hadn't considered that is relevant to piracy: This may simply be a Microsoft "tax" assuming that new computers come preloaded with Starter Edition. Even though the user is expected to install a pirated version of Windows anyway, they still payed a small increase for the system to be preloaded with Starter Edition.

Re:Price Discrimination and Piracy

[JayJayEm (220851)]

Since when is price discrimination illegal?

You might want to let people like all the large cinema chains know who charge less for a ticket for a student, child or OAP even though that ticket gives them access to exactly the same product, which costs the cinema exactly the same to "produce".

Price discrimination tends to assist the poorer consumer - if cinemas were unable to discriminate between students and adults the catch-all price would likely be unpalatably high for students.

However, as you do rightly point out this is all irrelevant because Starter Edition is NOT an example of price discrimination - it is an entirely different (crippled) product.

Maybe not so wrong after all

[Lispy (136512)]

I find this offer as inacceptable as the rest of the Slshdot crowd, but wouldn't it be possible that Microsoft knows it's market? I bet they made extensive research in Asia and it turned out that most people will be satisfied with an operating system as crippled as this. I am not really sure if I wouldn't try it if I was really short on money but wanted to run my favourite games or office app.

Maybe Linux might be 10 times more powerful but some people just like to use Word and IE? Maybe not everyone needs network because there is no broadband or LAN-Party around?

I know it sounds totally insane to us but maybe not so much to your mother or a thai. And don't forget that dealing with free operatingsystems still takes some time for a newbie, WinXP is commonly known...

Lovely

[dtfinch (661405)]

When you make something worthless, even free would be too expensive.

They say "we'll sell you less for less". But that's not a great offer if they can get more for less elsewhere. They need to put more value in their products. Say, make XP Home and Pro better and make XP Starter what XP Home was.

Businesses don't buy licenses from Red Hat at $3k per server because Linux is cheap.

After enough times trying to run 4 apps at once, I'm betting that Linux is going to look really attractive to anyone who shells out the $4 needed to purchase XPSE. They already spent $100 or more on the system, so they'll want to get as much out of that investment as possible, and the cost of XPSE will far exceed the $4 price. I doubt that XPSE will let you make a 4 headed system, with one cheap pc connected to 4 cheap monitors, keyboards, and mice.

There is exactly one case I can think of where someone will want XPSE, and that's to run Windows games, unless they put in something to prevent dual boot.

Re:But of course

[mkosmul (673296)]

In the next version of slashcode, only three comments will be allowed for each post in order to reduce confusion among moderators.

Can I pick "stupid"?

[khasim (1285)]

I don't think the INTENT of this product was either racist or classist.

I think the INTENT was to cripple an inexpensive version of Windows in order to preserve the profit margin on the full version.

Now, they had a problem explaining why the crippled version was crippled without admitting the reason was the profit margin protection.

Their spin sounds either racist or classist.

Re:Spyware

[Geoffreyerffoeg (729040)]

Good, there's nothing to spy on.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it'd be three visible apps, not processes (malware would tend to run as a background process or service if it's smart); Windows NT and up (2K, XP) with no apps running has over two dozen processes active; just press Ctrl-Shift-Esc and count. "spoolsv", "svchost" a few times, "lsass", "services", "winlogon", "mdm", the necessary "explorer" and "System", etc.