Verizon Crippled Bluetooth Features in Motorola V710

djdoubles writes "Apparently Verizon Wireless has put firmware with crippled Bluetooth features in the new Motorola v710 phone. A lot of people have been anticipating a Bluetooth phone from Verizon, only to be disappointed by lack of OBEX. Verizon says they have no plan to add OBEX because it doesn't fit their business model--greedy bastards. PC Magazine doesn't have very nice things to say either. More discussion here."

As a Verizon customer

[Anonymous Coward]

I recognize the fact that if Verizon tells me I don't need something, then I don't need it.

Re:As a Verizon customer

[PowerBook2k (312576)]

Here's what you do- call 611 on your T-Mobile phone, get to customer care rep., and ask to open a trouble ticket for bad coverage. They'll ask for the address where the trouble spot is and a brief description of the situation (inside vs outside, number of bars, etc.). They'll send out a crew to the towers around that address and you'll get text message and call updates about the progress, including when they intend to put new towers in, etc. Best policy of any cell provider I've seen.

(Standard disclaimer applies- don't work for them, just a happy customer)

Re:As a Verizon customer

[cyclist1200 (513080)]

There's been a rash of that happening. I think there's going to be a sarcasm detector recall in early November.

What are you complaining about again?

[stecoop (759508)]

Would you rather get shoot with by the BlueSniper with a virus-outy BlueSnarf [slashdot.org] dart? And we wonder why Ericsson [slashdot.org] is moving on to other projects - highlighted from the greedy bass-turd article ...so wireless carriers can charge people... Gotta get paid ya know.

And if you really want a blue tooth phone there is a nifty niche and free capitalist market called eBay.

Re:What are you complaining about again?

[BoldAC (735721)]

But Verizon disabled the phone's Bluetooth file-transfer function, so you can't wirelessly transfer photos to your PC without using the carrier's for-pay Pix Messaging service

Yeah, they are doing it for security reasons... yeah, right. As the quote above shows, it's all about the dollars, baby.

Re:What are you complaining about again?

[Davak (526912)]

Sadly, the system works.

Charging per minute instead of a flat rate -- that makes them more money.
Making it difficult for people to trade ringtones -- that makes them more money.
Charging to send little alphanumeric messages -- that makes them more money.

and...

Charging to send pictures through a server instead of directly -- that makes them more money. It's cheap money now as the pictures are small. But when the camera resolution increases or when the phone/cameras can create audio/video, the time required to be online is going to greatly, greatly increase.

The world of cheap hardware and expensive services just increases and increases...

Re:Will they actually activate it?

[Pantheraleo2k3 (673123)]

1)Only GSM phones use Subscriber Identity Module (SIM) cards. IIRC, ATT Wireless, T-Mobile, and Cingular use GSM (IANAAmerican so I could be wrong)

2) CDMA providers activate your phone by entering the Electronic Serial Number into their system. Sometimes you can pull a fast one but generally they will not activate a phone you purchased yourself

Re:Will they actually activate it?

[Chanc_Gorkon (94133)]

Verizon will activate any old device as long as it's one they sell and have approved for their network and even then I have seen other non Verizon affiliated dealers selling other phones for the verizon network like a older Sony Ericsson CDMA Phone. You are correct on teh American GSM carriers...at least the major ones.

Re:Will they actually activate it?

[Yakko (4996)]

CDMA phones can also be activated online, given the ESN. The online forms will return the subsidy lock (either an MSL or an OTKSL) as well as step-by-step instructions for entering your phone number (the MIN).

Those phones with an MSL can be reprogramed to any MIN, and can be reprovisioned to any network. Those with an OTKSL probably cannot, as the subsidy lock is one-time.

Some cell phone shops can unlock any phone in exchange for a small fee, though. :o)

It's now safe to turn off your computer.

[Doc Ruby (173196)]

What are *you* complaining about? In fact, *how* are you complaining, by using Slashdot? Don't you know that the Internet can give you a virus? Throw away the computer, and never worry about viruses again. Same goes for dating...

The Ericsson is moving on from *inventing* Bluetooth, to capitalizing on its innovations through mere marketing. That's how tech capitalism works. And since you won't be using eBay anymore, to avoid getting scammed, you might not be interested in learning that Bluetooth phones need a telco carrier, like Verizon. Boy, are you lucky you won't have to make any hard choices anymore.

Verizon is developer-unfriendly

[n2rjt (88804)]

They do everything possible to keep people from downloading apps, tones, etc directly to the phone. No J2ME on any Verizon phone, as far as I can tell.
Better to use T-Mobile or Cingular in the US.

Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly

[Nos. (179609)]

Its amazing that companies still think this way. Look at the most popular games out there... Doom, Half Life, Unreal Tournament... they're popular because you can download new 'mods' for them. If I were trying to sell a new cell phone/pda I'd want it as open as possible. Release a pretty base funcitoning model, but allow developers to create skins, apps, etc. to it. Your development time is reduced, and people will flock to it if you can get developers interested.

Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly

[cmowire (254489)]

Possible.

However, Verizon's business is not built around selling phones. It's built around selling you minutes and special premium features. Id doesn't make any less money if you download Doom or Quake mods, but that's not necessarily the case here.

The problem is that Verizon is figuring that the gain in minutes-usage by releasing a more open phone is going to result in less money than requiring people to use the premium services. And unless there's evidence to prove otherwise, that's where things will

Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly

[crucini (98210)]

A truly free market is a Liberetarian myth.

Maybe, but we could get a lot closer than we are now. A good general principle is that when a natural monopoly exists (phone lines, RF spectrum, etc.) the monopoly holder should not be allowed to sell other products or services related to the monopoly. How would you like it if your power utility sold appliances? Can you imagine what a limited, overpriced selection you'd have?

To apply the logic here, cellular providers should not be allowed to sell phones.

Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly

[Thrakkerzog (7580)]

Are you kidding?

They want as few features as possible, so you will want to buy another phone as soon as possible.

Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly

[Pii (1955)]

This only makes sense if you are making money selling the hardware...

US Wireless Tecos don't make any money on selling the phones themselves... They lose money.

All of their cash comes on the back end, through service agreements, long term committments, overage changes, and add-on services with their accompanied charges.

It doesn't make business sense for Verizon to let you transfer pictures for free, when they could instead charge you for on-air minutes.

Don't worry... Capitalism has a mechanism to protect you, the consumer. It's called choice. Use another provider, but there are trade-offs. Cingular or TMobile may has cooler phones, with better features, but their coverage areas are far weaker that Verizon's.

You need to decide up front what you need out of the service... The ability to make phone calls anytime, anyplace, or a cool techno toy that can send pictures to all your pals?

Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly

[Anonymous Coward]

Verizon is currently using Qualcomm's Brew [qualcomm.com] system, rebranded as Get It Now!.
If you want to get apps onto your Verizon handset, I suggset looking at Bitpim [sourceforge.net], you will require a datacable. (available online, or at a VZW store)

I believe Verizon is limiting access to bluetooth, simply to prevent people from using the data connection as a modem for they're laptops. Why this is, is beyond me. As they charge an arm and a leg for data transfers.

Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly

[kidgenius (704962)]

You can very easily use the phone as a modem for Laptops and PDAs over bluetooth. I've successfully browsed the web w/ a Tungsten T3 without a hitch. That particular profile is included in the BT setup of the phone right now.

Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly

[savagedome (742194)]

Better to use T-Mobile or Cingular in the US

TMobile has a GSM network too. So, when you fly international, you can just buy a SIM card and have a phone right away.

Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly

[ElGuapoGolf (600734)]

Verizon's *main* reason for disabling the OBEX functionality on this phoen is simple... they do not want you to be able to take pictures from your phone and send them to others via bluetooth. If the disabling of BT was simply for security, you'd be able to transfer pictures using that nice 40 dollar data cable they'll happily sell you. But you can't with that either.

I bought my bluetooth phone from Cingular for 2 reasons. I can sync my calendar, and use the handsfree in my car. The phone itself was 100. With Verizon I would pay 200 for the phone (yeah, I know you can get it for 179 from joe's phone shack, but whatever) and I'd pay another 40 for the data cable to sync with my calendar.

What's the point of Verizon even offering this....?

Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly

[bigmase521 (612670)]

I'm not a moto employee, nor would I consider myself a "bluetooth expert" however I am very knowledgeable about bluetooth technology, and this v710 situation in general.

I have a Motorola V600, and have had it for months. It's a GSM phone, and I use it through Cingular, but there are versions of the v600 from At&T Wireless and T-Mobile. It's a great phone, and bluetooth works flawlessly in every profile, it's not crippled at all. My buddy from work, after seeing my phone badly wanted a bluetooth pho

Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly

[Asprin (545477)]

It's amazing. The mobile phone companies can sell you games, ringtones, wallpaper and text messages, but they can't^H^H^H^H^H *WON'T* tell you instantly how many minutes you've used this billing cycle. Hell, my Cingular phone doesn't even work in my living room - I have to go outside where I get at least three bars worth of signal. [inside - SEARCHING..., outside - THREE BARS].

All you sixteen year old spoiled teeny-boppers with the disposable income to afford mobile phones are wrecking my universe by d

Actually sounds OK to me

[Marxist Hacker 42 (638312)]

My main wishes in a bluetooth phone are dial up networking and cord-free headsets. For those of us who carry PDAs anyway with a SD card slot, there's an easy workaround for picture transfering- just use your PDA whenever your phone gets full, and at the end of the day before you sync your PDA.

I am OUTRAGED

[stratjakt (596332)]

How DARE they refuse to offer me a feature I don't want!

GREEDY BASTARDS!

Is bluetooth not "Beta" to 802.11s "VHS" anyways?

crappy photos to

[oneishy (669590)]

It's not only the bluetooth support that is lacking. The colors in the camera [jehiah.com] are really bad to!

oh... and you can use iSync with the usb cable [google.com], just not over bluetooth

Business model?

[Zorilla (791636)]

What I don't see is how their business model suffers when a phone's feature exists by default and an extra effort is needed to reduce functionality. They're the ones setting the price, anyway. (since the firmware is being crippled by Verizon, not the OEM, right?)

It's not like it's a customer service issue. They use flashcards for that anyway.

As an owner of this phone...

[DaHat (247651)]

I've been quite happy with this phone since my purchase of it a month ago, I wish it had full Bluetooth support and I was told only yesterday by customer service that an update will be out in 3-4 weeks to enable full Bluetooth support.

Syncing of phonebook here I come!

Re:As an owner of this phone...

[madcow_ucsb (222054)]

Yeah and I was told a year ago by their executive offices that there'd be a tool released by Verizon "in 3-4 weeks" to go in via the data cable and upload progs and ringtones without GetItNow.

Don't believe a thing those guys say...

Re:As an owner of this phone...

[Dragoon412 (648209)]

Have you checked to see if your phone's compatible with BitPim [sourceforge.net]?

I'm using an Audiovox CDM 8900 (another awesome phone that was crippled by Verizon), and it works great. Not only for uploading wallpapers and ringtones, but you can do a fair bit of hacking; getting rid of those obnoxious Verizon software banners and the like.

NYNEX Still SUX

[Doc Ruby (173196)]

Verizon's business model is to force people to place all communications through *them*, regardless of the sensibility of that network model. They're protecting their wireless empire as hamfistedly as they protected their dialup model, charging people 10x for "data lines" for modems over 9600bps, seeking Congressional protection from "always on" ISPs, crushing DSL competition. Too bad the WiFi genie's already out of the bottle. In the future, circuit-switched landlines and CDMA radios might only serve as backups, when our fibers and WiFi associations fail. With luck, the DSL conquest won't be repeated by Verizon Wireless, since colocation infrastructure isn't as necessary.

Maybe they should have dubbed...

[Anonymous Coward]

...their crippled version BlueBalls. All that promise of sexy features, getting everyone excited, then not delivering the goods.

Nothing New from Verizon

[retsaMedoC (107951)]

This isn't the first time Verizon Wireless has crippled a phone. Motorola's T720 phone was also the victim of a nasty hack. The T720 was designed to use Java and Verizon uses Qualcomm's Brew for their Get It Now service. Java was stripped from the phone, not to mention other features like being able to recieve pictures via SMS Messages or the builtin web browser.

ringtones

[linuxpng (314861)]

I was pretty disappointed to find out they strip midi files from incoming emails. Making it impossible to send yourself free ringtones.. It's even worse that certain polyphonic phones can't receive SMS messages with midi files either. I had to resort to a motorola phone programmer and USB cable. It's unfortunate, alot of people would never go that route to get a dollar ringtone into their phone.

Re:ringtones

[liquidsin (398151)]

I use Telus (Canadian provider) and they did the same to me with an Ericsson T206. They don't actually tell you that they've fucked up the phone - you have to find that out for yourself. They decided it was more profitable to remove the ringtone composer that Sony put on the phone, as well as the ability to send ringtones via SMS, leaving only one option for getting new ringtones - buy them on the Telus website for $1.50 each. Rat bastards.

Re:ringtones

[CodeBuster (516420)]

It's unfortunate, alot of people would never go that route to get a dollar ringtone into their phone.

The telcos and their investors are COUNTING on that. You are the rare and statistically insignificant slashdotter who actually figures out how the technology works. 99.9% of the people out their will simply pay the $1. The whole cell phone business is based upon hassling people so that they make a small payment in exchange for not being hassled. Since all providers are nearly equally bad you are not as l

Greedy bastards?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when is it such a crime to not implement unprofitable features? If you don't like it, buy a different phone.

Re:Greedy bastards?

[Skye16 (685048)]

Or, you could always use your first amendment rights to complain that the only viable wireless carrier in your area has hamstrung the only bluetooth phone that it offers.

Confucius say

[Julian Morrison (5575)]

..."if honorable business model depends on building a toll-gate where there are open roads to left and right, soon will have new business model involving burgers and fries"

vote with your wallet

[gl4ss (559668)]

buy unhindered phones.

or well, if you really like the walled garden aproach then why not, sure, give them away dollars for doing some simple stuff like moving data few feet. if their services are otherwise very cheap then as a customer it could make sense to cave into feature reductions like this, but i doubt it.

this is also why on some phones it's a bitch to get the pictures out even if the manufacturer could have very very cheapily added usb or whatever connectivity. it's left out intentionally so the networks that want walled gardens can feel good about them.

and if you claim that things like this are needed to make running a network profitable/possible.. that's just pure bullshit. you don't even need locked phones for fast adaptation, hell, i'd argue that locked phones being illegal make for a faster adaption.. much easier to compare a) handset prices b) network prices (=less bullshit hidden costs pricing).

oh and if you start with the "i'd only buy a linux based phone", the 'linux' phones coming are locked up tight - tighter than smartphones available now.

Re:vote with your wallet

[10Ghz (453478)]

This is why I love Finland. Bundling phones with subscriptions is not allowed here. So that means that I can buy whatever phone I wish, and I can use it with any operator I wish. None of that "If you want to use our service, you have to use this phone"-crap. If I were to change my operator tomorrow, they would only provide me with a new SIM-card. I replace the old SIM with the new SIM and presto: I'm now using the new operators services!

And yes, the phone-calls are cheap here. And the phones aren't THAT ex

Verizon does not develop firmware

[mrm677 (456727)]

Verizon does not develop firmware for Motorola phones. However Motorola provides lots of internal software configuration options to allow service providers to customize features to suit their business model.

v710 hacker reward

[venicebeach (702856)]

If you didn't catch this from the nuclear elephant article, he's got a reward pot [nuclearelephant.com] going for anyone who can provide a hack to enable OBEX on the phone. I think this is a great idea... I would love to see Verizon lose control of this thing. I almost bought one of these things just to be able to sync my address book with bluetooth, and at the last minute my intuition (or experience with Verizon/Moto) saved me.

Golden handcuffs

[JUSTONEMORELATTE (584508)]

I first got cellular from U S WEST Cellular, which was sold to AirTouch, which was sold to Verizon.
I'm still on a calling plan from the original U S WEST contracts, so I have three phones, sharing 600 minutes for around US$60 per month after taxes.
Right now, I've got a Nokia from Verizon with a firmware mod to prevent any ringtones or BREW apps from running, except through the Verizon BUY IT NOW! downloader. I'd dump 'em in a heartbeat if I could get service from anyone else for a comparable price, but as it is I just use 'em for phone service and I miss out on the fancy phone features fun.

Small computers

[Zorilla (791636)]

What phone companies need to realize is that phone are becoming more and more like small personal computers. They have their own set of multimedia capabilities. Take sound for example. First it was a piezoelectric 1 bit speaker, then FM polyphonic sound, now PCM audio. Hell, in Japan, I've seen quite a few phones that have TV tuners. Point being that they now have capabilities similar to desktop computers and need the same freedoms to operatate like them. That includes unrestricted data transfer, creation (ringtones, backgrounds, java games). Imagine being able to store files on your phone in a format not initially supported by it, but then having somebody write software to handle it. (Obvious /. examples being PNG backgrounds and Ogg Vorbis ringtones)

I hope Verizon either adapts or dies in regards to this.

I have the phone, here's my comments

[tkrotchko (124118)]

The real practical limitation of the lack of OBEX is that the phone can't exchange its internal phonebook over BT, so if you have a BT implementation in your car, you have to re-enter your phone book in the car.

As to the limitation its really dumb for one simple reason: The phone support data exchange via a memory card, so you can move ringtones, pictures, and even MP3's to the phone to be used as an MP3 player.

If Verizon is intentially crippling this phone, its only crippled for people who can't be bothered to copy the stuff via either USB or the memory card. I suppose that means impatient teens.

For the rest of us who want to take advantage of the advanced features, its stupid and insulting, since it doesn't do what they think it does, and it really limits the BT flexibility.

Its still a nice phone though.

From the horse's mouth

[davmoo (63521)]

If Verizon is indeed purposely crippling bluetooth, and has no plans to "fix" it, then they need to be looked at for false advertising. From their own website I quote:

"And with Bluetooth wireless technology, you can make hands-free, eyes-free calls, and connect to your PC or PDA whenever and wherever you want."

How to get out of your Verizon contract early...

[ElGuapoGolf (600734)]

This works, swear to god.

About 3 years ago, one of their account people noticed that my contract had expired and I was a month to month customer. He called me, pushing a new 2 year contract. I didn't really want it, but he swore new bluetooth phones were coming that fall. Since I wanted bluetooth, and none of the other carriers had good coverage in my area, I figured why not... the new plan was cheaper and all. Seemed good.

Cut to 2 years later, with 6 months left on my contract. I have a Bluetooth PDA, laptop, and the car I was expecting delivery of (Prius) had the Bluetooth Handsfree in it. There were rumors of a Motorola with bluetooth coming soon on the Verizon network, but I couldn't risk it. I had to get out. Here's what I did...

I emailed customer support. Sounds simple, right? But the beauty of this is, a real live person emails you back. Sure, it's a form letter at first, but if you keep emailing back, and keep bringing up your original points (bluetooth, customer rep lied to me, etc), they'll go off script.

And clearly they underestimated my resolve to keep hammering at them. It cost me nothing to email them. They had customer service reps spending time trying to figure out how to respond. The time they spent with me couldn't be used for other customers... And, honestly, it was funny as hell for me.

After nearly 2 dozen back and forth emails, they agreed to let me out of the contract early. I switched to Cingular, and now have an uncrippled and fully functional bluetooth phone. And a signal. Life is good.

This is bogus and untrue OBEX will be enabled.

[GhengisCohen (778368)]

Verizon is releasing thing phone with some features disabled, they will be enabled in November for full compliance including OBEX come November. Will someone fact check before this is posted. They released that information last monday. -GReg

Re:Sept 4th Update?

[peterdaly (123554)]

posts here [cliesource.com] discusses info from motolora saying stating that file transfer is coming in an update in early Sept. First reference is post #6, but it is talked about after that.

Re:What's the big deal about Bluetooth anyway?

[ColourlessGreenIdeas (711076)]

OBEX is really useful for transferring phone numbers to a friend's phone. While you can do this fine with IR, the non-hassle of not having to aim up the slightly illogical parts of the phones where the IR ports have been hidden suddenly makes this a useful feature. Bluetooth headsets and so on are also useful.