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Microsoft Media Center 2005 Reviewed

Posted by timothy on Mon Oct 11, 2004 03:44 PM
from the my-tivo-cost-200-bucks dept.
Operating Systems Software Windows Media Microsoft Television
Thomas Hawk writes "Microsoft is set to release their new Media Center 2005 by none other than Bill Gates himself in Los Angeles tomorrow. In advance of this announcement, the New York Times (registration required) is running an article on the new product today. The article says that the quality of the MCE television has generally been received as inferior to rival and competitor TiVo. I wrote a review on the new MCE 2005 last week called MCE 2005, Underwhelmed. I'm offering continuing media coverage of MCE 2005."
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  • It's a shame, but (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11 2004, @03:52PM (#10497011)
    due to Microsoft policy [theregister.com], any TV programs you record will be destroyed automatically after 30 days, unless they receive a notice from their legal department...

    • Microsoft NDA / press embargo Media Center 2005 (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Geartest.com (582779) on Monday October 11 2004, @08:06PM (#10499236) Homepage

      Thomas, I found this excerpt quite interesting (emphasis added):

      I wrote a review on the new MCE 2005 last week called MCE 2005, Underwhelmed.

      How was it that you were able to get advance access to the software and avoid violating confidentiality agreements that you must have signed?

      We were at a Microsoft media briefing a couple of weeks ago and were required to sign NDAs specific to the Media Center Edition 2005. The information was embargoed until the October 12 official launch of Windows Media Center Edition 2005. The NDAs applied to everyone, including major media with millions of readers/listeners/viewers.

      In the case of the New York Times, and a few selected media outlets, I'm sure that they got special access. Either that or the NYT is violating an NDA as well, which I think is improbable.

      So how has Thomas Hawk managed to get the software and write about it so far in advance without violating an NDA or otherwise going up against the Microsoft legal department?

      Or is your "review" like a lot of game "reviews" where you haven't even seen or used the software, and rely on third-party accounts as the basis of your "review"?

  • More Features (Score:5, Funny)

    by Doesn't_Comment_Code (692510) on Monday October 11 2004, @03:53PM (#10497018)
    The article says that the quality of the MCE television has generally been received as inferior to rival and competitor TiVo.

    Microsoft salesman: ...But wait! Have you seen all the new DRM features?

    • Re:More Features (Score:5, Informative)

      by erick99 (743982) <homerun@gmail.com> on Monday October 11 2004, @04:15PM (#10497168) Homepage
      Here are some of the more relevant paragraphs from the NYT (relevant to the argument that Media Center PC is not as good as Tivo) story for those who don't want to have to register at their site:

      So far, the record of Media Center PC's is mixed. Since they were introduced in 2002, computers using the first two versions of this software have been slow sellers. IDC, which had forecast sales of 1.5 million of them this year, now sees sales at 550,000 units for all of 2004.

      Roger Kay, a vice president of IDC, says sales of Media Center PC's have lagged because they are buggy, too hard to use, and often too noisy to put in a living room. And even among the small group of users, they haven't developed the fanatical following of TiVo, the stand-alone video recorder.

      "I haven't been in some placid home where the people who use Media Center PC's think it is great and a part of their life," Mr. Kay said.

      Stephen Baker, the director of industry analysis at the NPD Group, a research firm, is skeptical even of the existing sales of Media Center PC's. "A lot of their sales have been accidental," he said. "Someone wants to buy the best PC out there, and this is the one with all the bells and whistles"

      The media extender device may give Microsoft its desired beachhead in the living room. But those devices are emerging technology and have an initial price tag of about $250. A recorder from TiVo, by contrast, can be bought for less than $100 after rebates, although it has a fee of $12.95 a month, which the Windows system does not.

      • Actually, I know a girl whose parents bought her a nice computer for college. I was in her room, and saw the Media Center Sticker on her computer and asked her if she liked it. She had no idea what I was talking about. I still havent convinced her to set it up and use it as a TiVo.

        • Re:More Features (Score:4, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11 2004, @05:21PM (#10497794)
          She had no idea what I was talking about. I still havent convinced her to set it up and use it as a TiVo.

          FYI, even if you get the computer set up, she's still not going to go out with you.

      • Re:More Features (Score:5, Interesting)

        by garcia (6573) * on Monday October 11 2004, @04:28PM (#10497272) Homepage
        A recorder from TiVo, by contrast, can be bought for less than $100 after rebates, although it has a fee of $12.95 a month, which the Windows system does not.

        This is EXACTLY why I went with a Tivo. Price. $50 after rebate and it's noiseless. I don't think about it and I don't worry that it will crash.

        I was seriously thinking about buying a machine to do MythTV which was my first choice but I always found myself put off by the time/money investment only to have yet another machine running in the house sucking electricity (I am VERY interested in seeing a power consumption comparison between a low-end MythTV machine, Tivo, and Microsoft solution).

        Anyway. Building and running a mythTV box, while well within my ability, was just too much of a hassle compared to clicking on CircuitShitty and picking it up at the desk 20 minutes later.

        YMMV.
        • The superior solution years from now will the the solution with no subscription plan.

          Someone in slashdot pointed out from previous articles that Snapstream could use XML TV to get data from Zap2it. I have tried it, and I ran into every firewall brick wall you can imagine.

          Granted I can still schedule shows via Snapstream to record by punching in 9:00 for example. It's just not the same having that TV guide menu like the paid Tivo service.

    • I can see it now... (Score:4, Funny)

      by Alaren (682568) on Monday October 11 2004, @04:16PM (#10497173) Homepage

      Judging by the increasing gap between what corporations want with DRM and what end-users want to do with their media, I envision something like this:

      Bill Gates opens up the curtain to reveal an enormous display. He introduces the new version and says he would like to begin with a demonstration of his favorite feature.

      The screen powers up and... it's completely blank.

      "The wave of the future," says Bill. "Our new DRM is completely unbreakable. Through careful research we have determined that the most common format of music on an iPod is 'stolen.' [slashdot.org] Through extrapolation, this proves that the most common format of all digital media, including movies, is stolen."

      "Ladies and gentlemen of corporate America, I give you: BlankScreen (TM). The new DRM assumes that all users are thieves and simply refuses to do anything at all. No one will ever steal your IP again."

      Corporations will buy into this new DRM heavily. Then they will act confused when Apple releases a light-on-DRM media machine that manages to do well for some unfathomable reason.

    • Whats new-- Microsoft's entire success is due solely to protectionist schemes-- any time they are forced to compete on a level playing field by design merit they fail miserably. Expect them to buy TiVo out, try to make some special deal with some big content company or instill one of their patents, in order to make their product "better" by locking the competition out-- it's just their way...


      • Microsoft's entire success is due solely to protectionist schemes

        Those schemes are self protection of Microsoft's own business.

        Protecting customers and competitorsM-D partners is a different matter.

        I don't see the Media PC booming into a brisk holiday sales season; the TiVo has much stronger word-of-mouth advertising.

        Where the TiVo falters, IMHO, is in providing friendly HDTV recording capabilities.

  • Talented guy, indeed (Score:3, Funny)

    by damiam (409504) on Monday October 11 2004, @03:59PM (#10497053)
    Microsoft is set to release their new Media Center 2005 by none other than Bill Gates himself

    So Gates himself wrote Media Center single-handedly?

  • What news, what news. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11 2004, @04:10PM (#10497131)
    Lets see:

    Tivo --- Cheap, works, easy to use, easy to setup.
    MythTV --- Cheap, works, easy to use, difficult to setup.
    MCE --- Expensive, works, easy to use, modertly difficult to setup.

    Hmm...

    So MS is saying that I can spend a thousand dollars on a PC, pay them around 150 dollars for the software, subject myself to DRM, and then risk getting my Television infected with spyware, viruses, and worms?

    WERE CAN I SIGN UP?!!!!!
    • Tivo --- Cheap, works, easy to use, easy to setup.
      MythTV --- Cheap, works, easy to use, difficult to setup.
      MCE --- Expensive, works, easy to use, modertly difficult to setup.

      The only problem with your otherwise insightful analysis is that the MCE "works" only for a rather limited definition of "working" compared to the functionality of the other products on the market. It does less and costs more, and Microsoft's principal argument for you to purchase one seems to be, "Hey, we're Microsoft. You may be

    • I don't think MythTV can be described as cheap. A VIA based MythTV box, using a Hauppauge 250 in an aesthetically acceptable case will set you back about $600. That's more than enough to pay for Tivo.

      Of course, this is because certain component manufacturers are suffering from low demand, or are milking the market (you choose). For instance a case is $100 but you can buy a complete DVD player (including power supply) for less than that - and it will look better. Just throw out the inside and plug the V
      • OF course, MythTV doesn't have a monthly fee- add in 3 years at 12 per month or so for a decent length of use comparison. And don't forget that MythTV allows customization and add ons (MythGame, MythMusic, MythPhone, add in a larger HD anytime, throw on an ftp server to access your files at a friends house, etc). Plus it can be used as a normal PC when not recording. While it may be more, you also get a lot more functionality for it.
        • Oh sure, MythTV has a lot going for it. And it is very easy to accidentially include addons like a big HDD or a DVD writer in the cost when comparing to a TiVo, which is hardly an accurate comparison.

          But TiVo is available as a lifetime subscription for less than the cost of a mythtv box.
  • Call me picky, but I find even the quietest hard drives (Seagate Barracuda line is the quietest I've found) are unacceptably loud when used in a media PC in my living room. That constant humming is a big annoyance. Add to that, unless the case is an ITX format or smaller, I find a media PC unacceptably large for my living room as well. I've experimented with various harddrive-less media players/recorders but haven't found one that I liked enough to even mention by name here.
    • I dunno... I got an old Gateway 386 case that strangely enough holds an ATX board and ATX power supply. It goes right where the VCR used to on the shelves. No sound difference, no real loss of room
    • Are you watching silent movies or something? I use Seagates and when watching tv at even a low volume I can't hear my PC at all. For movies, ie why you want a HTPC in the first place I can't hear anything but my 5.1 system.
      • Well, your HTPC has to be on full time to record, so it has to be quiet enough when there are no other sources of noise.

        However, I'm very picky about noise, and I've been able to silence drives very successfully. Get a modern quiet one, turn on acoustic management, and soft-mount it. Either suspend it with bungees [silentpcreview.com], rest it on sorbothane foam, or at least use rubber grommets in the drive cage. There are all sorts of discussions about this on www.silentpcreview.com.

        I'm amazed by how much bungee-suspens

    • Any dvd player i have seen makes more noise spinning the disc as any of the silent hds (samsung or seagate .7 series).
      Obviously you will tell me that my ears dont work, that you can hear better or blah. I dont care. just dont spread fud.

    • Re:Noisy Hard Drive = No Thanks (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Fnkmaster (89084) on Monday October 11 2004, @05:43PM (#10497999)
      The noise you hear from a PC is at least 80% from the CPU fan, power supply fan and case fan. A fanless PC is extremely quiet - hard drives do make noise, but it's quiet enough that you're not terribly likely to hear a proper, low noise harddrive in a living room unless you put your ear up right next to the box it's in.


      But yes, in general, these things would be much better if they used lower power CPUs with heatpipes and fanless power supplies. In fact, more PCs in general should be designed this way as I can't stand the humming of fan noise anymore (guess I'm just getting older).

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ny times.com%2F2004%2F10%2F11%2Ftechnology%2F11micros oft.html%3Foref%3Dlogin%26pagewanted%3D1%26oref%3D login&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=moz illa&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial

  • Somewhat misleading customer satisfaction (Score:5, Insightful)

    by StateOfTheUnion (762194) on Monday October 11 2004, @04:19PM (#10497202) Homepage
    From the NY times article Regardless of how they get Media Center computers, Mr. Brooks said people like them when they get them home. Microsoft's surveys, he said, found that more than 90 percent of the owners of the Media Center computers are satisfied with them, far more than the percentage of basic PC owners. Eight out of nine, he said, would recommend the product to a friend.

    That doesn't surprise me but I think that the figure is intrinsically misleading . . . at only 3% of the market, these media PC's are probably primarily bought by the diehard enthusiast types. These are exactly the same group that would be most likely to be very satisfied with the product. The average Joe that is much more fickle and impatient currently wouldn't even consider buying one of these for his/her living room . . . at least not until they become much more mainstream . . .

    • Cognitive Dissonance (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Alaren (682568) on Monday October 11 2004, @05:01PM (#10497624) Homepage

      Agreed.

      To that I might add, the principle of post-decisional cognitive dissonance [wikipedia.org] will almost always increase reported customer satisfaction when more money has been spent on something in order to (theoretically) add value.

      On the other hand, even assuming the numbers are a reasonably accurate account and Media Center computers are generally well-liked by their users, I have to wonder how these numbers compare to the numbers that would turn up if the same questions were asked about, say, TiVo. Or outside the genre, about iPods. Is 8/9 really that big a deal?

      And finally, I'd take any marketing-associated stats (particularly those associated with Microsoft) with a grain of salt. Just last week Halo 2 was touted as having "highest presale in the history of videogames," [slashdot.org] which was patently false (as noted in several of the /. comments).

      Regardless of what you find to be the best explanation, it should be clear that these numbers don't mean what Microsoft wishes they meant.

  • As much as I hate to admit it . . . (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11 2004, @04:24PM (#10497232)
    . . . Windows XP Media Center Edition is pretty cool. My roommate purchased an HP computer for college that came with MCE, though he didn't even try to set it up last year, this year he's gotten it working.

    We've used it, so far, to record South Park episodes and Comedy Central's Secret Stash. There's nothing better than going off to Intro to Philosophy class after just having heard a 5-minute unbleeped tirade from an angry black man. We've now got it set to record every show of several series, and it's really nice to be able to start playing a show at a moments notice.

    I'm kind of jealous that he's got it, actually. I'd like to turn my spare computer into a Linux box, but I'd also like to record shows on it, if such thing were possible. I have no idea if any equivalent to MCE exists on Linux.

  • Can it join a domain? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rsilvergun (571051) on Monday October 11 2004, @04:29PM (#10497277)
    As I understand it, MCE is just pro with added junk. If it retails for the Same as Home, could be a nice, cheap way to upgrade to Pro.

  • Bad review (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    " Although the product allegedly will support the ATI HDTV Wonder card it is my understanding that this card only supports OTA (over the air) HDTV broadcasts. WTF?" - From the submitter review

    What an uninformed statement. This the fault of cable and sat companies. The htpc communities have screamed their heads off about for awhile now but with the new broadcast flags, I believe we will see the death of HDTV recording (on pc, too easy to share) all together. Unless there is a solid shared standard (with agr

  • I'm unimpressed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by El (94934) on Monday October 11 2004, @04:35PM (#10497345)
    I've got a very expensive Sony Media Center PC. The program guide and remote control are nice, but the thing takes forever to switch channels, and video quality is poor (it appears to be dropping frames like crazy when receive standard broadcast TV with a lot of movement). Sure, I can pause live TV, but what good is that when it looks like crap? Of course, it is difficult to say how much of this is the fault of the software, and how much is because of the hardware -- but killing every other process running seems to help.

  • XBMC is million times better.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dwipal (709116) * on Monday October 11 2004, @04:43PM (#10497434) Homepage
    I use XBOX Media Center (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com) since a month now, and it is WAYYY better than whatever MS will be offering, the main advantage being u dont get stuck with M$ software. My XBMC works with the iBook and a Windows XP desktop that is kinfof like my "Media Server" lying somewhere in the bedroom.

    Its all connected to the network wirelessly, and works exceptionally well. U can manage the songs using iTunes and play those on ur home theater connected through XBMC. There are also Optical Audio and Component Out kits available for the XBOX and it works really well. It has the mplayer media player which has all the nasty codecs which can play just about anything.
    Also, xbox dosent make the noise that a regular PC will make. It now also supports 1080i DVD playback with DTS audio which is just what I need.

    M$ has a media center extender for their xbox, but it only works with their shitty Media center PCs which is wayyy overpriced and too "closed".

    As far as my XBOX can do everything i ever want (of course, except the HD-Tivo functions, which i would like leaving to Tivo), spending 150$ for the XBOX just makes too much sense. I would always prefer to have all the media stored on some PC but remotely accessible from a small non-noisy set-top box connected to the TV (like the XBOX).
    • I agree, but maybe not a million times :)

      It's great for playing movies, music, and showing the family the vacation pictures on the big screen. However, as you eluded to, the XBMC can not record tv shows or any "outside" video feed. That being said, I own 4 xboxes all equipped with XBMC for the majority of my multimedia enjoyment.

    • Also, xbox dosent make the noise that a regular PC will make

      Obviously, you and I have been listening to different desktop PCs and XBoxes... I'd go for an X-box for this purpose in an instant, if every one I've heard wasn't so noisy. Silence is in the ear of the beholder. They're also harder to silence. Small quiet fans just don't exist, and the Xbox has a small fan (50, 60mm or something?).

    • My god you sound like my son.

      "U wayyyyy need XBMC, dood! It rox!"
  • ...it's an excellent way to identify B-Arkers.

  • heh (Score:3, Funny)

    by NeoGeo64 (672698) on Monday October 11 2004, @05:07PM (#10497675)
    I've always wanted to see hi-def goatsee and tubgirl. ;)
  • XP MCE has always looked to me like MythTV for people who are too rich and/or lazy to geek Linux or TiVo for Paul Thurrott or the Microsoft-zealot balding IT man at your school or workplace. A good thing to have, but with TiVo To Go around the corner to handle the DVD burning thing, is there any real advantage over TiVo? If you are using it like a TV (sitting at a distance) you won't be too comfortable using Word, particularly if you are using a standard-def or any small TV as your monitor, and there's no

  • Crash-o-matic (Score:3, Interesting)

    by pair-a-noyd (594371) on Monday October 11 2004, @07:07PM (#10498793)
    I just spent a few days in Houston Memorial Herman Hospital where they have a sort of interesting setup.
    The old TV's are gone, they have flat screens on a boom that you can pull down to your face and watch TV on, surf the net, etc..
    My complaint with it was that it's credit card driven, you get about 10 channels for free but they are all bullcrap channels, women's talk shows, soaps, "The Aquarium Channel" and other useless nonsense.
    If you want to watch anything else you have to swipe your credit card in a slot on the side to activate the half way decent channels or get on the net. The proxy is heavily censored/nannied and you can't do much more than go to disney.com and other 4 year old level crap. Any site with naughty words are off limits.

    Not having a credit card, I was screwed until they caused me some extreme pain, I filed a complaint and they kissed my ass for the rest of my stay which included turning on all the channels.. (not worth the pain though!)

    Anyway, the thing was crashing every few hours, it would boot up with a Windows 2000 start up screen then go through a very lengthy new hardware detection process, rebooting numerous times as it tried to detect and install all the goodies. It is a touch screen and the picture was a little better than poor and just under acceptable. You can go back and forth between the net and TV by touching the screen. Typing on it and filling in forms was a pain. There was a power, coax and an ethernet cable from the wall into the boom. I would be willing to bet that this device is insanely expensive. Considering though that they charged me about $100,000 for everything, I would think they may have put a dent in the bill for this system.

    At first glance, it looked neat. After serious scrutiny, it's buggy and low quality. But most people laying in bed, in pain could care less.

    Here's a link to a story all about the system.
    http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/technology/020104_tech _hostech.html [go.com]

    • Re:Hmm. Another Microsoft Solution (Score:4, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11 2004, @04:11PM (#10497142)
      Coming soon... HDTV viruses & spyware
    • Speaking of blue screens... did anyone ever notice that the Windows XP Logon Screen (the pretty one with all the playschool buttons) is mostly... blue? Wanna guess why? Maybe they were hoping if XP bluescreened, a user wouldn't be able to tell from a distance because they'd still see blue and think it was the logon screen. ;P (I kid! I kid! Because of love!!!)

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