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Take A Look At Solaris 10

Posted by timothy on Tue Mar 01, 2005 06:51 AM
from the aughguha-it-burns dept.
SilentBob4 writes "There haven't been many reviews of the recent Solaris 10 release from Sun Microsytems, and even those which are available are thin at best... until now. Mad Penguin, normally a Linux-only site, has release the most comprehensive and well-written review of the OS to date."
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  • by stuffedmonkey (733020) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @06:54AM (#11811265)
    I am wondering, not to troll, but what kinds of uses does Solaris still find itself filling?
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:00AM (#11811292)
      Enterprise computing. The names "Oracle" and "Solaris" are often spoted together, usually in the same sentance. Oracle may have made Linux a supported platform, hell it might even be their prefered platform, but dyed in the wool DBA's still tend to stick with Solaris.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:03AM (#11811306)
      Sun execs use it to lead investors to believe that the company still has a future.
    • by BlueUnderwear (73957) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:06AM (#11811316)
      but what kinds of uses does Solaris still find itself filling?

      I recently installed Solaris on my 2 Laptops. Reason: testing Solaris compatibility of software that I maintain! ;-)

      It has been an interesting experience anyways, because I ended up not only testing (and fixing...) my own software, but also testing Solaris' usability (or rather: lack thereof...):

      • Very fragile install process (pop in the wrong CD just once, and start over from scratch...)
      • Refuses to create a Solaris partition if a Linux Swap partition is present (... because both share the same partition id 82, but other OS'es at least give you the option of "ignore this partition, and create a new one instead!"
      • Poor dependancy management in the installer (the Solaris installer does flag broken dependancies, but unlike most Linux distros does not have a button to "resolve" these automatically)
      • No straightforward way to configure a Swiss-German keyboard
      • On one of my two laptops, X Display was all messed up after install. Fortunately, there was still an xf86config-like script lying around.
      • poor hardware support (on both laptops, I had to download extra drivers from the net to get Ethernet... and the only way to get these drivers on the Laptop in the first place was to burn a CD.... One of the two Ethernet cards was a via-rhine, not exactly uncommon hardware!)
      • Unobvious paths for some sundry utils /usr/ccs/bin/make, /usr/sfw/bin/gcc. Find is your friend, but locate has left you stranded...
      • by BlueUnderwear (73957) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:16AM (#11811362)
        Oh, and I forgot to mention:
        • On my AMD64 laptop the whole install was graphical, but for some reason, on the old (AMD 32) laptop, most of it was handled by a curses (?) base program running in a dtterm.
        • The author of the review critices the reboot that happens after the first CD. This is not that bad, some Linux distributions, such as SuSE do that too. However, it could at least pop out CD 1 after the reboot, or else, it'll just start over from scratch (which is a pain if you are not near your PC when the reboot happens). And yes, I did chose the option "automatically pop out CD" at the beginning of the install, but somehow it just doesn't happen...
        • There is no easy (GUI) way to install packages "after the fact" if you see that you need them. You have to manually rifle through your 5 CD's, copy the package files to /var/spool/pkg, and run pkgadd manually (or did I just miss something here?).
        • The drop-down menu to chose console login is nice, except for the case where you would need it the most: what do you do if the X installation is so messed-up that you don't see the lower half of your screen, including that menu? Oh, and telneting in from another machine is not an option, if your network card is one of the many that aren't supported out of the box...
        • How do you mount an USB keyfob, or similar device?
        • by oldmanmtn (33675) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @08:14AM (#11811592)
          You have to manually rifle through your 5 CD's, copy the package files to /var/spool/pkg, and run pkgadd manually

          You don't have to copy them anywhere. Either "pkgadd -d /cdrom/..." and select your package from the list, or "pkgadd -d /cdrom/.../package_name".

          How do you mount an USB keyfob, or similar device?

          In theory, I don't think you should have to mount those at all. vold should do that automatically - just like it does for cds. In practice, getting S10 to recognize my iPod wasn't quite that easy. I haven't tried a USB device, so I can't say whether it will really work.

          If vold doesn't automatically mount the keyfob, then try rebooting with the it inserted. Once it has been recognized once at boot, it should be recognized automatically in the future.

          Oh, and telneting in from another machine is not an option, if your network card is one of the many that aren't supported out of the box.

          On a real PC, you can often redirect the console to a serial line and use "tip" (or some Linux equivalent) to get to the machine's console. That also gives you a way to get a network driver onto the machine without burning it to a CD. uuencode it to ascii, and then use ~> to copy the file over. Since console redirection often isn't available on laptops, this may not work for you.

          You can also try PXE booting your machine. Since the boot/install image is on a server, you can easily insert your driver into the image so it is available at install time.
        • by Listen Up (107011) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @09:48AM (#11812185)
          You are complaining about the x86 version of Solaris. Hardware problems are non-existent on the Sparc platform. And you are complaining about features that have NOTHING to do with Enterprise Server computing. USB keyfob? WTF? If you want Linux, then install Linux. Linux is slowly reaching perfection one day at a time. But, if you want almost limitless power, scalability, reliability, and security on huge SMP systems and distributed networks today then you choose an OS like Solaris. If you are someone looking to use Solaris to play MP3 files then you have no idea what you are doing.
            • by dknj (441802) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @10:17AM (#11812437) Journal
              well played troll... i'll bite.

              I am going to assume you don't use solaris on a daily basis. If you think solaris is going to work like a redheaded stepchild, you are wrong. you seemed to have come across a bug in the installer, which didn't instruct vold to eject the cd. Because of this, the cdrom drive will remain locked by the volume manager. Forcefully changing the cd will not change anything because the drive never opened, according to vold. I would frequently find solaris machines with nonfunctioning cdrom drives in our datacenter because others that have no solaris experience would paperclip the cdrom drive to get their cds back. Very annoying.

              next, don't trust solaris x86 on any hardware that doesn't say sun on the outside. simple as that. solaris is not what is special, its moreso the hardware it runs on and the sparc platform is what solaris is tuned for. yes, x86 may be supported but they don't support every single device created by man.

              pkgadd does not ignore -d. get over it.

              the install process will also drop you to a text-mode installer if your video card is not supported (a minor problem on our ultra 10s) or don't have a mouse setup. on that note, to fix your X display problem, try disabling it (if you can't figure out how, solaris is definitely not for you yet)

              Look at what google turns up about your usb storage device [google.com]

              When you try a new OS, you have to get rid of the mentality you're used to. Solaris != Linux, therefore "features" that you normally expect aren't there because the path Solaris takes is different than other OS'. Solaris x86 is basically a direct port from sparc which means, there generally aren't other OS's using the same partition id. Maybe Sun could update the installer, but they didn't. Deal with it. Install everything+oem and lock down the machine with jass, or know what you are doing before you start picking and choosing your packages. Finally, the paths are as they are for historical reasons as well. Solaris didn't always have gcc, they have a much better compiler. GCC was added to the companion cd later since it was publicly available on many sun freeware sites. All non-sun software goes to /usr/sfw.

              Welcome to Solaris, if you don't like it, leave and keep preaching for -insert your favorite os here-. If you want to actually do something productive with Solaris, harness it's real power. Like Zones, ZFS, SMF, etc. Quit bitching about how it doesn't perform like Linux.

              -dk
              btw, to revive a zombie cdrom drive, stop vold, eject the cd manually (using the button on the cd/dvd drive), start vold
              • by oldmanmtn (33675) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @11:48AM (#11813263)
                well played troll... i'll bite.

                No need to be a dick. He ran into reasonable problems with some of Solaris' rough edges.

                next, don't trust solaris x86 on any hardware that doesn't say sun on the outside

                Bull. S10 is humming along just fine on my 2 CPU Dell, my Thinkpad T42 (modulo the Centrino-based Wifi), my homebrewed Epia file server, and my homebrewed 2-way Opteron system. Solaris doesn't have the driver support of Linux, but it still runs on a ton of different hardware.

                Solaris x86 is basically a direct port from sparc

                No. Solaris is Solaris. The Solaris running on your x86 machine is exactly the same as the Solaris running on your SPARC. Obviously there is some platform-specific code, but it is _not_ a port. They are built from the exact same source tree.

                All non-sun software goes to /usr/sfw.

                Or /opt/sfw.

                Welcome to Solaris, if you don't like it, leave and keep preaching for ...

                Again, don't be a dick. He was trying to use Solaris and ran into trouble. It happens. If you look at the rest of the thread, it's obvious that he is looking for suggestions, and is willing to try them out. Do you actually think your semi-informed arrogance is going to make anybody more interested in using Solaris?

      • by aaamr (203460) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:19AM (#11811370)
        While Solaris x86 is a supported platform from Sun, the bread and butter for Solaris has always been the Sparc platforms, so I'm not surprised the x86 version is not as polished.

        What does Solaris get you?

        - Guaranteed binary compatibility from the smallest SunFire V100 to the largest 96-CPU capable StarFire boxes.

        - Excellent platform stability and predictiability. I have never had to recompile my Solaris kernel to support a memory upgrade. Happened to me with RHEL 2.1 on a production site.

        - Excellent and consistent hardware quality

        - Reasonable price/performance for some situations. Last I checked, a 4-way SunFire V440 was cheaper than an equivalent Intel box, and far far cheaper than anything from IBM.

        I've worked with all flavors of Unix from AIX to Solaris, to HP-UX, to Linux, and I've been running Linux since 1998 in one form or another. My favorite production-grade Unix is still Solaris.
        • I am not trying to be a jerk, but how much memory did you add before you had to recompile your kernel?

          Do you run RH ES 3.0? Would that also be a problem with it?

          I run SuSE and have been up to 4GiG and haven't had a problem, and the motherboard offers up to 24GB or RAM support (Duel AMD Opteron with 64bit SuSE).

          Thanks!
          • by BlueUnderwear (73957) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:34AM (#11811420)
            Oh, and I forgot to mention... the GUI is just awful.

            Which makes it even more astonishing that it is so hard to get out of it. No Ctrl-Alt-Backspace to zap the X-server, no Ctrl-Alt-F1 to switch virtual consoles, etc. The only straightforward way is the "console login" drop down menu, which is kind of useless in the case the screen is so messed-up that you don't see it...

            Fortunately there is another way: if you are a fast typer, and manage to log in on the console before X would start, you stay in text mode.

            • by oldmanmtn (33675) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @08:17AM (#11811614)
              Which makes it even more astonishing that it is so hard to get out of it. No Ctrl-Alt-Backspace to zap the X-server.

              This is available if you use the Xorg server instead of Xsun. I thought Xorg was the default in s10? If ctrl-alt-backspace isn't working, try using the crtl and alt on the right side of the keyboard. I don't know why those are different than the equivalents on the left side, but they seem to be a bit more reliable in this situation.
      • by bbuR_bbuB (804723) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @09:39AM (#11812113)
        Very fragile install process (pop in the wrong CD just once, and start over from scratch...)
        That's funny, I install Solaris from a Jumpstart server, and it installs fine every time. What are these CDs you mention?

        Refuses to create a Solaris partition if a Linux Swap partition is present (... because both share the same partition id 82, but other OS'es at least give you the option of "ignore this partition, and create a new one instead!"
        Once again, I never had this problem installing Solaris on top of linux on my Sun Blade 100, Ultra 60, or Ultra 5/10.

        Poor dependancy management in the installer (the Solaris installer does flag broken dependancies, but unlike most Linux distros does not have a button to "resolve" these automatically)
        Do you really feel comfortable having a program automatically installing packages for you on an ENTERPRISE system? I know exactly what packages I want, and when I want them installed. Having a package manager 'know better' than me would be a huge mistake when people actually rely on your services.

        No straightforward way to configure a Swiss-German keyboard
        These [hta-bi.bfh.ch] people would probably beg to differ. Also, I think Java Desktop works wonders. Honestly, I know nothing about internationalization, so I'll shutup now.

        On one of my two laptops, X Display was all messed up after install. Fortunately, there was still an xf86config-like script lying around.
        Good for you! Where's the problem here?

        poor hardware support (on both laptops, I had to download extra drivers from the net to get Ethernet... and the only way to get these drivers on the Laptop in the first place was to burn a CD.... One of the two Ethernet cards was a via-rhine, not exactly uncommon hardware!)
        A laptop is obviously not the intended installation target machine for Solaris. Please stand by while I cry you a river that you had to install drivers. Don't like it? Use MacOSX or something.

        Unobvious paths for some sundry utils /usr/ccs/bin/make, /usr/sfw/bin/gcc. Find is your friend, but locate has left you stranded...
        They make sense to me. /usr/sfw -- sunfreeware. It's a pity that Solaris isn't set up exactly like Linux, isn't it? What's stopping you from installing your own Gnu Make (which is better than sun make) somewhere that you'd like?

        I'm glad we've come to the same conclusion -- Solaris IS NOT Linux. You're not using it in the way it was intended, so it seems clunky and difficult to manage. Your complaints mostly revolve around the fact that since Solaris is not set up exactly the same, and is not as easy to administer than Linux, that it's unusable. Solaris is a really crummy desktop system. I would say that if you went from Linux to Solaris with no training, reading, or prior preparation, you would probably find it quite unusable.

        Solaris is ornery on Intel hardware. Linux was pretty ornery too in its first few years on x86. I run a fairly large Solaris setup (15k+ users) and when we've looked at Linux, it takes a lot more work on the part of the sysadmin to ensure that the system doesn't flake out. Solaris on Sun hardware kicks ass for us. It may not kick ass for you. That doesn't mean it's unusable. I bet a tractor trailer would be unusable at first to your everyday SUV driver!
    • by digitalchinky (650880) <dtchky@gmail.com> on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:13AM (#11811349) Homepage
      Solaris will be used by the military for many years to come, its uses are as broad as there are uses for any operating system in existance.
      Not just databases or webservers, in my tiny little world we use it mostly for processing radio signals. This also includes demodulation of 'digital' signals through software, as well as de-multiplexing, removing overhead, decryption, stripping through reed solomon, trellis, etc, etc, etc... 'Infinite possibilities' comes to mind most frequently.
      • by rindeee (530084) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @08:04AM (#11811528)
        Solaris is THE OS in the US Federal arena. While there is a good bit of Linux and Windows in use, Solaris is the mainstay when it comes to production computing. The growth rate is also quite amazing 'round here. The raw number of new Sun boxen brought online on a weekly basis amazes me. It's a good, solid, dependable OS that runs on excellent and reliable hardware. What's not to love from the standpoint of a giant customer who wants to drop in a box and have it "just work". Also keep in mind that Solaris sells a pre-hardened version of its OS and specialized hardware to the Fed for use in high-security environments.
    • by Klootzak (824076) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:18AM (#11811365)
      Actually, there are many (mostly-legacy) applications that will ONLY run on the "older" Unicies.

      I worked for a number of years doing SysAdmin/Infrastructure-Architectural work for various global banks. The majority of the niche applications used to provide complex financial services are STILL not ported to "modern" unix-like OS's.

      As an example, DST International's (http://www.dstinternational.com) HiPortfolio product will only run on IBM's AIX and Sun's Solaris as it's Unix OS platform. The reason for this is the product is so damned old and ingrained into that specific industry, the company can afford to ignore their customers demands and not re-invest potential profit in expensive porting exercises... You can get away with murder by holding a monopoly on most of the large Asset-Management businesses.

      If a bunch of clever programmers got together and wrote some clean, horizontally-scaling, easily intergrated applications to destroy the hold of these monopolistic "niche" software products, they could really make some money (and the world would be better off with one less monopoly market).
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2005, @09:31AM (#11812054)
      Compare the install process for Oracle 9i on Redhat Enterprise 2 or 3 against that for Solaris 9 (on Sparc) and you'll see why Solaris still has a real future. To get Oracle to install on Redhat you have to downgrade libraries so that Oracle can link its executables and during this stage your machine is in an unbootable state until you upgrade your libraries.

      I've programmed professionally on Unix since the late 80's and been an admin on Solaris since the mid 90's. During this time I have seen the evolution of Linux and been a Linux user/admin since 1994 so I feel that I speak about both Operating systems from real experience.

      My conclusion is this: In a professional environment run Solaris unless you have a compelling reason to run Linux. Quite simply Solaris is industrial strength OS and Redhat (I can't speak about other distros) is not there yet.

      At home I run Linux because a couple of emulators (hercules and qemu) are only available on Linux (my compelling reason) and there is better device support.

      My prediction is that Linux will be a major force in the low end of the market but pentration into the higher end of the market will be limited because factors other then the cost of the OS become more important to the decision making process.

      Many Linux users have a PC-centric view of computing that leads to the rather naive question that started this thread.
  • by luvirini (753157) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @06:58AM (#11811282)
    But I think what would be needed more is a try to do things like actual stresstesting and comparisions under load.
      • page 1 (Score:3, Informative)

        Straigth from madpenguin.com page one of the review, too bad i wasn't able to read page 2 :(
        -----------------c&p-------------
        Sun Microsystems has recently released Solaris 10. It is currently free, as in beer, and most of it is promised to be released under an OSI approved license in the second quarter of 2005. Most everyone reading this probably knows all of that. The release and subsequent open sourcing of Solaris 10 has caused quite an uproar in the Open Source community and the IT industry as a wh
  • Well-written? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by henrik (98) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:01AM (#11811296)
    Not sure I would classify this as well-written considering the author seems to have no idea of Solaris legacy nor why for example directory hierarchy is as it is. Seems like the normal uninformed Linux-is-the-real-Unix review.
  • You're right, in fact, a Google search for "solaris 10 review" only brings up 1,200,000 matches....
  • While I wager most of the responses on this thread will be some variant on "so what, Solaris is dead", let me say that I met with a senior planner of a very large system integrator here in APAC, and he pretty much said the opposite: Solaris 10 will fill all their needs and that the whole Linux/penguin/RMS-sideshow was a distraction at this point.

    Sun has spent years playing in the biggest game with the biggest boys. Their gross holdings dwarf that of Red Hat and Novell. Solaris 10 has all the core functionality that the major major banks and conservative institutions want. Sun has dedicated salespeople who know these clients for years now. Do not count them out, yet.

    Sure, Solaris 10 seems like a Hail Mary, but think why the Hail Mary play is there: it works sometimes...
  • by MauMan (252382) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:06AM (#11811318) Homepage
    Google:

    Results 1 - 10 of about 3,780 for "solaris 10 review".
  • Review text... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:30AM (#11811402)
    Sun Microsystems has recently released Solaris 10. It is currently free, as in beer, and most of it is promised to be released under an OSI approved license in the second quarter of 2005. Most everyone reading this probably knows all of that. The release and subsequent open sourcing of Solaris 10 has caused quite an uproar in the Open Source community and the IT industry as a whole. Linux advocates have been fighting Solaris advocates on forums across the Internet. The zealotry and misrepresentation from both sides has been really quite impressive. However, I am a BSD user. I am not on either side and will do my best to allow neither zealotry nor misrepresentation into this review.

    Please continue reading after you have stopped laughing.

    All political issues aside, Solaris 10 is a very impressive OS. It has some features no other operating system can claim and some that are not necessarily new, but have been implemented in an excellent way. This is not to say it is perfect. There are definitely things I dislike and areas that seem quite unpolished.

    One of those aforementioned unpolished areas is the installation routine. It can be assumed that Solaris will not be installed by a novice. Even so, the Solaris install is painful and brings with it memories of Windows 2000 installs of old. This is not because its difficult, it is not. The installation is simply unwieldy. My main complaints are the following:

    * You must partition, install a small base system and reboot to finish the install. I expect an OS to be installable without a reboot.
    * For the first section of the install there is a web browser in the background, but for unknown reasons there is no browser in the second section.
    * You have to switch CD's during the install, which is fine, but you can't just switch and walk away. You have to wait for it to read the CD and display another screen and then press next. There is probably a reason for this, but I just find it annoying.

    Issues like these make the installation routine seem unfinished and just don't fit with the overall quality of the OS.

    Upon booting Solaris for the first time, you are greeted by dtlogin. This is the default graphical login manager for Solaris and plainly has CDE roots. At this point, there is a drop-down menu in which you can choose to go back to a console login or choose which wm/dm to enter, both CDE and JDS3 are options. I am sure CDE has many great features and I know that some people love it. However, I am not one of them. JDS3 on the other hand is a nicely polished GNOME desktop. The theme and general feel is much improved over Sun's earlier versions. Nothing is very remarkable about JDS3, except network browsing. I have never seen any GNOME desktop do as well with windows and NIX network browsing.

    There are things I dislike about JDS. As a media player, Sun has chosen the "Java Media Player." This program has no redeeming factors. XMMS or Rhythmbox would be much better choices. They also tapped Mozilla to be the web browser, not Firefox. With FF gaining more and more attention, this choice makes very little sense to me. However, those are my only complaints about JDS3 and they are small ones.

    Nobody is considering Solaris 10 because of JDS3 or its installation routine. They are looking at it because of new features like DTrace, Zones and the new Service Management Framework. Indeed, it has been quite awhile since we have seen a release of any OS with as many large features as Solaris 10.

    DTrace
    One of the main new features in Solaris 10 is DTrace, a dynamic instrumentation system. DTrace consists of a scripting language, named D (not to be confused with the fledgling D Programming Language), and loadable kernel modules named "providers." When called upon, these "providers" track and report system information. DTrace has several features that separate it from other similar systems:

    * It is dynamic. DTrace has no effect on system performance when not in use. Only those providers t
  • Rootkit? (Score:5, Informative)

    by puke76 (775195) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:34AM (#11811419) Homepage
    Ah, Solaris 10, the rootkit writers friend. [www.ccc.de]
    • Re:Rootkit? (Score:4, Informative)

      by thogard (43403) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @08:15AM (#11811595) Homepage
      But he didn't even play arround with the new services database. What a bummer even though his code is much better than the service db stuff I've seen.

      A lesson from Microsoft...
      Don't keep boot status info in a binary file that also can start programs.
      You can't tell if its been hacked without rebuilding it and you can't rebuild it with ease. The new services stuff for Solaris 10 is sort of a mix between init, inetd, cron and the windows registry. This is wrong and someone at sun needs to fix it now.
  • by Spoing (152917) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:38AM (#11811433) Homepage
    Go and install Solaris 10. Use an external machine and run nmap followed by Nessus targeting your new Solaris system. Use the defaults for everything (Solaris, nmap, and Nessus).

    Interesting, eh?

    Note: If you don't have access to a Nessus server or Linux, you can use almost any machine to run a scan yourself. Here's a simplified version of what to do;

    1. Get Knoppix and boot it; http://knoppix.org

    2. When the desktop appears, run the Nessus server;

    'Start' (the K in the lower left)

    System (note _DO_NOT_ use the Nessus on this menu yet!)

    Security

    Nessus

    3. Wait. This will take a few minutes and you may not see anything. If you want to be sure, come back in 5 minutes.

    4. Run the Nessus client;

    K

    System

    Nessus (note _NOT_ the one under the Security menu)

    5. The username should be knoppix.

    6. The password field should be blank. Enter knoppix for the password.

    7. Select the Target tab. Put in the IP address or DNS name of the target machine.

    8. Start scanning. Keep in mind that any firewalls or NAT devices between you and the target machine may give back bad results.

  • More drivel (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nemaispuke (624303) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:54AM (#11811483)

    I read this "review" when it showed up on OSNews and thought "yet another Linux/BSD/whatever user attempts to use Solaris and fails". Everybody seems to focus on what Sun is pimping (DTrace, Zones, Predictive Self Healing), what about actually using the OS?

    I have been using (and beta testing) Solaris 10 since August 2003, and there is a lot more to it than DTrace, Zones, and Predictive Self Healing. There are several password security improvements, a new installation metacluster (Reduced Networking Support), a new installation method (WAN Boot), the ability to wrap RPC connections so that connections get logged (TCP Wrappers). And so you don't have to download a ton of software, GCC, gmake, webmin, GIMP, and other tools are part of the Full Distribution installation.

    The problem with "reviews" is trying to meet the insaitable demand for "information" and not actually providing anything other than a rehash of publicity materials. How about everybody being paitient and hold off for a "quality" review.

  • by nachumk (863725) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @08:07AM (#11811544)
    My own background: Written linux and Windows NT/XP drivers, and I have set up many linux (mostly debian) and windows workstatiosn

    i have been assigned the job of writing my company's pci card driver for solaris 9, and for this purpose i was given an old ultrasparc IIe sparc workstation with solaris 9. After a bit of frustration with trying to setup paths for root, and login shells, and patches, and packages. I decided to just clean install solaris 10. After downloading 5 cds (not including documentation cd) from solaris, I proceeded to install the system.

    Installation:
    partitioning wizard sucks. defaults are fine, but if you want to change it, then it is just unpleasant.

    network setup : it doesn't request a Hostname, and for the life of my system, I have hostname unknown. No big deal, except for a few errors that it prints. I have looked at sun's site, and the recommended way of changing this is sys-unconfig - with a few changes to dhcpagent in /etc/default. but that doesn't work. And i didn't feel like going like going through cartwheels changing the large number of files required to do this manually.

    Configuration:
    I loaded up root's profile using the Java Desktop Environment (JDE). Nice looking. But it has no link to the Sun Management Console (SMC). I looked through all the menus and I couldn't figure out how to graphically (in the solaris way) add users. Of course I could've used useradd, but i really wanted to configure the system in the solaris prescribed manner. If you use Common Desktop Environment (CDE), then you do have a link to SMC. I had to run smc from console, and then I was able to set up users.

    I wanted to change root's shell from /bin/sh to bash. I tried this using the SMC, but that gave me an error, so I ended up having to do this from /etc/passwd.

    I installed the solaris 10 with a full (COMPLETE) install. Yet when I look for emacs either in the JDE menus or via the a call to emacs from the terminal, i get nothing. to get emacs and a large number of the other programs including gcc ld vim ... to work, you have to set up the PATHs manually. I did this via /etc/profile, although I was surprised that none of this was already done. As there was no word on what the proper PATH should be I had to guess a bit, and finally found what I wanted:
    PATH=/opt/sfw/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/opt/csw/b in:/usr/c cs/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin

    emacs and gcc are in /opt/sfw/bin/
    ld is in /usr/ccs/bin/
    wget is in /usr/sfw/bin/
    i installed the package pkg-get, and that went into /opt/csw/bin/pkg-get

    If you run the SMC, and you try to add patches, it won't work, it says something about installing patch pro manager. You can't install that b/c it is not on the website, it only lists patch pro for solaris 8 and 9. I finally found that in Solaris 10, the patch manager comes built in, not that there is some easy way to know this. you must run pprosvc.

    Driver writing:
    I did a full install of solaris, yet I didn't get the program cc, and since all of their driver tutorials refer to using cc, this created some issues for me. (cc is installed with Sun Studio). I switched to gcc, but gcc doesn't accept the same parameters as cc, but i found out after lots of wasted time, that cc -xarch=v9 is equivalent to gcc -m64 -mcpu=v9. of course you can't use the ld from gnu, you have to use solaris's ld to link.

    I am now struggling to get some automatic dev links to be created in solaris, and as with everything else that I have encountered under this OS, it is being extremely painful.

    I can say one thing for Solaris 10, and that is that the JDE look great. (although it doesn't have links to the apps that I installed, and is missing the SMC). Visually wise it is nicer looking than some other windowing environments I have seen, as is much better looking than CDE

    nachum
    • After a bit of frustration with trying to setup paths for root, and login shells, and patches, and packages. I decided to just clean install solaris 10.

      In other words, you do not know what you are doing. And you are writing drivers.

      Great!
      • by Psiren (6145) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @09:50AM (#11812197)
        Personally I fail to see how one has anything to do with the other. Writing a driver is system level programming. Setting up paths, shells and patches is system administration. While some people can be good at both, most people are generally only good at one. If you are one of the former, then we bow to your superior intellect.
        • Personally I fail to see how one has anything to do with the other. Writing a driver is system level programming. Setting up paths, shells and patches is system administration. While some people can be good at both, most people are generally only good at one. If you are one of the former, then we bow to your superior intellect.

          Horseshit. "Setting up paths, shells and patches" is the idiot work of system administration. It is the stuff you learn on the first day or two of the job. Redefining system administration to even include trivial crap like figuring out $PATH dumbs down the profession.

          A programmer should know how to administer his own machine.
  • more stuff (Score:4, Informative)

    by alsta (9424) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @08:19AM (#11811621)
    Some good resources for Solaris X86 extras and tinkering;

    http://www.bolthole.com/solaris/x86.html

    http://www.solaris-x86.org

    The author said that he was forced to use OSS to get sound to work. There are open source drivers for Solaris as well and they work pretty well. Note that they're compiled for Solaris 9, but they still work with Solaris 10.

    http://www.tools.de/solaris/audio/
  • Resource Manager (Score:5, Informative)

    by maitas (98290) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @08:50AM (#11811797) Homepage
    The reviewer miss in his zones explanation the part about Resource Manager. This is simply a zSeries like WorkLoad Manager tool. It allows to assign processing power per process and per zone, and also physical and virtual memory per user. Simply put, if you have 3 process running, you can assign each process 1/3rd of the processing power of the system, 1/3rd of the physical memory to each process (so no process force a page-out for all the others), and the same amount of virtual memory as the hole system memory (as long as the working set for each process fits in) to avoid memory leak problems.
    Other point is that the installer have a bug and although it asks if you want the 1st CD to auto pop-up, it wont work, you need to take it out before it starts the installation all over again. Some bouilds have a message reporting this error (instead of fixing it...).
    Binary compatibility is withit the ABI for the same platform (obviously, you can't move a SPARC binary to an Opteron box). The good part is that source files will written using the standar ABI will recompily straight.
    The main-point with any other OS than Linux is that rigth-now companies seems more likely to die than the hole Linux movement (or however you want to call it).
  • Solaris Noob (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Zontar The Mindless (9002) <[ten.sdnimevih] [ta] [noj]> on Tuesday March 01 2005, @09:21AM (#11811976) Homepage
    First of all, I'm no Solaris expert. (Heck, I only switched from Windows to Linux full-time a month or two ago.) But I was curious, and thought it might be cool to run our main product on Sol-x86 along with the Linux and win32 versions.

    I figured I'd be filling up an otherwise uneventful weekend, so I threw together a 433/256 out of spare parts, downloaded and burned the ISOs, and made myself a large pot of coffee. The installation took about 2 hours and pretty much everything I needed worked right the first time, and now I've got myself a nifty little SAMP server for testing. (Running Solaris 10, Apache 1.3.31, PHP 5.0.3, and MySQL 5.0.2-alpha.)
  • by Loconut1389 (455297) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @09:35AM (#11812089)
    Solaris zones are way cooler than one paragraph could explain- you can take a zone and move it to a duplicately configured machine (ala flash install or otherwise) in a heartbeat.. among other things..

    the reviewer had trouble installing without rebooting part-way through.. the way it sounded, he could only install the mini root and then reboot.. I just did a solaris 10 install friday on a Sun V480 box and not only did it install all 4 cds before rebooting into the actual OS, I did all of the package selection at the beginning and didn't have to wait for anything - magic of DVDs! In any case, i'm still pretty sure that you can do the package selection in front without having to twiddle thumbs between cds (eg package selection is not on a per cd basis)..

    Those were just a couple problems with the review I saw.. I don't think they really know solaris well enough to be reviewing it and have it considered worth much.
  • Zones and Xen (Score:4, Informative)

    by Alioth (221270) <no@spam> on Tuesday March 01 2005, @09:39AM (#11812110) Journal
    TFA says that unlike Xen and UML, Zones have a very small overhead.

    This isn't quite accurate - Xen does NOT have a large performance penalty (UML does, especially for I/O intensive workloads). Xen domains have almost the same performance as the native OS. Additionally, Xen VMs are not Linux kernels housed in a Linux host machine like UML, every Xen domain including domain0 runs under Xen itself. The only special thing about domain0 is that Xen passes off hardware access to domain0 rather than implementing all the device drivers itself.

    Xen is more like IBM's mainframe logical partitions (LPARs) than UML or Solaris's zones or BSD jails. It serves a different purpose to zones or BSD jails (but a similar purpose to UML).

    And Xen has very very good performance. I've been testing it recently and it blows away any other virtualization tools I've used on x86 including VMWare and UML.
    • by REBloomfield (550182) <rebloomfield@gmail.com> on Tuesday March 01 2005, @07:00AM (#11811290)
      Or just maybe they're concentrating on their hardware like Apple do?

      While the hell does every company nowadays have to release source code just to be accepted by you guys? Sun have been doing their thing, and doing it well, for years. They don't need to pander to you Open Source hippies in order to succeed.

    • Yeah. I mean, it's only by encouraging OSS development of their platform that they'll finally, one day in the far distant future, be able to say that they've got a rock-solid OS that someone chooses to, say, deploy a large enterprise CRM or OLTP project. I mean, really, right now who the heck uses Solaris anyway? Just a bunch of amateurs in their basements.
        • by elmegil (12001) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @09:27AM (#11812028) Homepage Journal
          When it does not, you are almost on your own, no matter how much you are paying for support

          BS. You've obviously got a big chip on your shoulder. Sun is far more responsive than any of their main competitors/"partners" in the data center space.

          With Sun you are lost if your problem is not one of their priorities.

          And this is different from getting a bug fixed in firefox or Gnome how?

      • FUD, FUD, FUD. Linux so far scales to up to 256 CPUs on real computers (SGI Altix 3700, single node), while Solaris hasn't scaled to more than 106 CPUs on real computers (Sun Fire 15K).
        • by Decaff (42676) on Tuesday March 01 2005, @08:29AM (#11811681)
          Linux so far scales to up to 256 CPUs on real computers

          'Scales' is meaningless unless you say what it can do. Allowing a carefully-written and finely tuned application to run across multiple CPUs is totally different from being able to act as a general-purpose machine. When Solaris scales across many processors this is usually as a general-purpose enterprise server, with multiple users, multi-threaded databases and application servers. This is fundamentally different from a customised numerical computation server, which is something SGI specialises in.