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Nero Burning for Linux
Posted by
timothy
on Sat Mar 12, 2005 07:53 PM
from the burning-a-hole-in-the-bin dept.
from the burning-a-hole-in-the-bin dept.
ceasol writes "The German company Nero, developers of the award-winning Nero Burning ROM suite for Windows, now release a free version for Linux called NeroLINUX a CD/DVD Burning Software, and include many features from the Windows version. This software is proprietary but free if you registered." The OEM versions of Nero that come with many CD burners aren't sufficient, though; NeroLINUX is free-as-in-beer only if you've registered "a full version of Nero software version 6 or higher," or a "retail version or downloaded version."
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Free as in... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Free as in... (Score:4, Insightful)
Regardless, I was actually curious to see what kind of burning solution they bring to Linux. So far most (if not all) graphical burners are just frontends for cdrdao, cdrtools or dvd+rw-tools.
Rumour has it they used GnomeToaster [rulez.org] for the interface. If NeroLinux is just another frontend, then it will be quickly dismissed by serious Linux users, who already have several established alternatives to choose from.
But the NeroLinux presentation mentions all kinds of goodies, including "NeroAPI 6.6" interfacing with 2.4 and 2.6 kernels. A new player in the Linux burning arena, coupled with an actual full port of Nero to Linux, would be a wonderful thing IMO. Serious competition is always good.
Either way, this is good news for the Linux user base. One less application for the newbies to worry about when pondering switching to Linux. Nevermind if it comes with a native burning solution or not; just knowing that "Nero has a Linux version" will encourage people to switch. I personally heard many say Nero was the last app holding them back. This is one of the highest profile apps for Windows, and now it has established a Linux presence. This is great news.
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Re:Free as in... (Score:4, Funny)
Burning solution? Dude, it's saturday. Take the necktie off.
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Re:Free as in... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, what's holding them back is that they lack a sense of adventure, a yearning for the unknown, a thirst for knowledge. In short: they're not geeks.
Don't get your hopes up. They'll find another "last app holding them back."
Jeremy
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Also now available (Score:5, Funny)
Not really, (Score:4, Funny)
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What? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What? (Score:5, Funny)
2) Drink beer
3) Vomit beer
4) Drink the new, "free" beer that has just appeared.
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Re:What? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:What? (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, it's free-as-the-beer-you-steal-from-the-convenience-s
Perhaps they account for P2P in their "free as in beer" assessment...
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Re:What? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:What? (Score:5, Informative)
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Advantages of Nero? (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems, that cdrecord and k3b (or xtoaster) does everything I need
Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
Again, it's not that K3B isn't competitive. It certainly is, but it's not there yet. Nero for Linux appears to be identical in its UI to the Windows version so it's another great way to bridge Linux and Windows. The bottom line is that it is very good, many people have it because it comes with many burners and having it on Linux will be another program that people who are wont to not learn how to use their computer will be able to say, "oh I know that program" that is part of their semi-daily use.
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Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
In the end the user preferred K3B over Nero. It was easier to use and "just worked right".
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Re:Advantages of Nero? (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's pointless (Score:4, Interesting)
It's only value is that it includes a comprehensive point&click interface, but even though it's stuffed with features, it can't beat the existing, free tools.
Unless you're a Windows user who wants a program he's familiar with, there is no reason to even look at it. Plus, it's not even free-as-beer, as you need to pay for a full, registered version of Nero for Windows.
Re:It's pointless (Score:5, Insightful)
???
The same thing as any other burning application?
Or are you thinking the software world for Linux should contain exactly one software for each purpose?
It's only value is that it includes a comprehensive point&click interface, but even though it's stuffed with features, it can't beat the existing, free tools.
OK, there you gave reason #1 (good GUI) and #2 (feature set) to use it on Linux, yourself. And being "Free" (libra) doesn't matter to all Linux users at all, believe it or not. And being "free" (gratis), well, see below...
Unless you're a Windows user who wants a program he's familiar with, there is no reason to even look at it.
Exactly! And there you gave reason #3 (familiarity).
Plus, it's not even free-as-beer, as you need to pay for a full, registered version of Nero for Windows.
Yeah, and Linux isn't free because you need to pay the hardware first. The point is that Nero is among the most commonly used burning apps on Windows there is, so existing licenses shouldn't be too uncommon. But yes, of course if you're building a Linux box from scratch, with no prior license for Nero, you should carefully consider the advantages and disadvantages for all apps. Fortunately, you have a choice here.
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So... dear Linux community what do YOU want? (Score:4, Interesting)
Then put your comments ("they rather release the source, k3b is a lot better, I want to compile this shit under gentoo") where the sun doesn't shine. Mainstream and real competetion equals to commercial stuff (and the author of this message thinks this is GOOD).
Or do you prefer to stay geekie? Sugar-coke, kernel-hacks, geek-elitism, no sunlight, no showers, spots (and clearasil), jokes about years old bsd-girl-daemon-pics? Then let them know it (and greet the openbsd community in that case).
Decide for yourself.
This *is* important. (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't forget that the OS itself is pretty much commodity. Its the apps that count, and for a mature and *decent* app to make it to Linux is important news.
Re:This *is* important. (Score:5, Insightful)
I would almost agree, except, as others pointed out, they are a dollar short and several days late.
5 years ago, hell, even 2 years ago, I would have seen value in a decent burning GUI. Since then, we have K3B and the new Gnome whatchamacallit, that both do the same thing, better, support more formats, and are not hindered by little things like CSS.... Sooo, how seriously can they be taking this product?
This might even cause OSS harm. Now hardware companies can make proprietary changes to the hardware interface, say, for copy protection. When people complain that Linux can't use the hardware, they can reasonably point to Nero as a burning solution. So not only does this not bring anything new or desirable to the desktop, it can be used to further hinder development of truly open and free systems.
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Re:This *is* important. (Score:5, Insightful)
As to how it can cause OSS harm.. Where on earth did you get that from? Nero producing a product has nothing to do with hardware companies making proprietary changes. They've always been able to do that, and always have. Can you say "Winmodem" or "Windows Printer"? Both designed with proprietary interfaces which Linux can't use.
The former I stayed well away from, the latter, well, I run a Konica Minolta magicolour 2300W. Works just fine from my Linux boxes.
Now, if someone produced hardware that linux just couldn't talk to, then Nero would be stuffed, as it wouldn't be able to use the api to talk to the hardware anyway, at least until a driver writer finds a way to talk to the hardware properly again.
It may just have skipped past your attention, but the whole 'trusted computing' initiative is heading to put just those copy controls in every device.
Now, if Nero has the bits built in there to cope with it from the moment it's released, and the rest of the open tools lag, at least there's some product out there that can handle the slack until Open works it out, and gets back in the game.
If it doesn't, no big deal. People use what they feel like.
I think about twelve years back, you'd have been one of those voices saying "Linux. That gives us nothing new. It's just another UNIX alike. What do we need that for? It'll only hamper the BSDs and not provide us with anything worthwhile in return!".
A product is a product. I'm glad Nero are in the market. They're offering something to compliment their windows product, for those people that may be wanting to move from Windows to Linux, and just want something they already know and are familiar with.
Anything that makes the transition easier is a great thing.
The great thing about OSS is it's a really open market. You can charge what you want for your product (including free). Nero want money for you to be able to have their product (you have to have the retail version, or buy one to get it). That's fine! If you don't want it, don't get it. Nobody uses it, and it'll go away (just like MusicMatch Jukebox for Linux did way back when).
But, it's there. And there are some more developers who've been exposed to Linux.
And as Ballmer is always chanting, it's all about "Developers, developers, developers".
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How serious are they really? (Score:5, Interesting)
That, as Milton Friedman would say, distorts the commmunication that one's purchases constitute in a free market. I don't want Nero for Windows--I don't use Windows (save at work, under duress). I have no use for Nero for Windows...but there's no way I can communicate that to Nero with my money, the way they have it set up.
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Re:This *is* important. (Score:5, Insightful)
Utility applications like CD burning programs aren't hard to replicate, as there are a certain set of features that need to be implemented to satisfy almost all users. Most people need to burn audio and data CDs, and an emerging need is burning home movies onto DVDs. The first two have already been done by open source programs, and the third will be done eventually. From what I hear, Nero has more features that make it useful, but I don't think it provides enough marginal utility to be worth $100 [nero.com]. Nero has succeeded in the Windows world largely due to their distributon deals with OEMs. However, their Linux product will not be profitable. The Linux version doesn't even have the extra features that make the Windows version attractive, but assuming that it eventually does, they won't be worth $100 to most people. The Linux version won't get them any extra distribution, and Linux users who buy CD burners already pay Nero money anyway. The extra effort spent on a Linux port won't be worth it, and they'll soon figure that out.
There is room for commercial software on Linux, but it has to be innovative software to succeed. There has to be something that the company continues to provide that hasn't been replicated by the eventual open source implementation of their product. Competing with free is possible, but not in Nero's case. Competing with Free is even harder.
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This Makes Me See How Important FOSS Is To Me (Score:5, Insightful)
I started using Linux somewhere around 1998, and moved everything (except compatibility testing) around 2000/2001. Since then I learned how to add almost any program or game I wanted with rpm -ivh {package_name}, then urpmi {package_name}, and now apt-get install {package_name}. It's not just the ease of use, but knowing that it is available, to me and anyone who wants it, that I can modify it or pay to have it modified, that I can help debug it, and even suggest new features.
I (mis)read this story and my first thoughts were, 1) Why bother, I've got programs that do almost all, to 2) But it's hard to do some of the DVD authoring that Nero will help with, to 3) But Nero controls it.
That's when I realized how important FOSS is to me and my company. I hadn't realized that I actually avoid commercial software now, and prefer FOSS, since I can make bug reports, make suggestions, and even modify if I need to. I also realized I do NOT want software (any more) that another company controls and can decide to remove from the market, or bastardize so it's no longer the program I liked. If it's FOSS, I know I'll almost always be able to find an older version if I need it, and that I can always locate it and re-install it easily if it gets horked.
So let Nero do what they want. I know in a year or two we'll see better DVD authoring under Linux (and eventually even see professional video editing in FOSS). This story helped me realize I can no longer deal with paying for software with fewer freedoms than that which apt-get installs for me. I don't want software someone else has total control over. (Okay, well maybe Myst and it's sequals, but we all know games are another story...)
Commercial Desktop App (Score:5, Insightful)
I am not trying to say Nero is better/worse than the alternatives, but now there is an additional alternative -- and software companies focusing on desktop apps are starting to take a Linux desktop more seriously.
Good thing (Score:5, Informative)
Title wrong? (Score:5, Funny)
Slashdot 2 days late? (Score:5, Insightful)
Essentially it is using the GnomeToaster GUI under license (not GPL) with a Nero API/drivers backend.
It's closed source and doesn't include Nero Recode (aka DVD Shrink) or anything other than Nero Burning ROM.
Catch-22 as usual... (Score:5, Insightful)
And then the linux community wonders why so few companies bother to code for linux.
Re:Catch-22 as usual... (Score:5, Insightful)
The body of your post is not an example of Catch-22, never mind a good example.
Parent
Missing the point... (Score:4, Insightful)
I understand the necessity of promoting non-restricted open source software, but things like this are a plus for Linux, particularly if we are holding out any chance that it will start to make serious waves on the desktop.
Ahh the wonderousness (Score:4, Interesting)
How about stop whining and give them a little support. Nero has been around on windows desktops for quite a while. Not that it's going to be the app that makes 2 million users stand up and switch, at least it's a start. People can now use their 'favorite burning application on linux' if in fact that is their favorite.
The point is joe schmoe doesn't even know what cdrdao is, nor does he want to learn another application. Yet, you say linux is destined for the desktop? I say bullshit. It's not destined for anything.
The biggest hurdle to Desktop Linux, is the current users of linux themselves.
I know this is Slashdot ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I know this is Slashdot ... (Score:5, Informative)
Look at the bottom of http://www.nero.com/ [nero.com]. "Nero AG / Nero Inc." I'm guessing they incorporated under the Nero name as well when they realized that not many people actually know the company name.
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And the Trolls come out to play... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Useless (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Useless (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Useless (Score:4, Insightful)
A well-thought CLI program is often more convenient the first time you use it. In the case of mkisofs, the "synopsis" at the very start of the manpage is enough for the typical use. On the other hand, it's pretty non-obvious to guess what do I need to choose to burn the damn files in a badly-designed thing like Nero.
And this applies to the first-time use. For the subsequent, you can't really beat the CLI.
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Re:Useless (Score:5, Insightful)
Because I *never* had any problems at all getting Nero (v. 5) to work, even the first time. Click the "new CD" button (in the same location that the new document is in every other GUI ever made), pick the type of CD you want, drag the files you want from the hard drive window to the new window that represents the CD, click the "write CD" button or choose "write CD" from the file menu, click burn.
I never had to look in any documentation to figure out how to do anything that wasn't pretty complicated.
After reading the ENTIRE mkisofs man page, I still don't know if I know how to actually write the ISO to the CD, I just have a pointer to look at cdwrite and this -o option that sounds like I can add
I'm not trying to judge you our your opitions, I'm just trying to show that there are very legitimate reasons why someone will prefer a GUI. They are almost universally easier to use than text tools, as you have to go to documentation to figure out how to do things with text tools whereas you can poke around for a minute or two with a GUI. (I'm talking Unix style text tools here, not like NCurses stuff, or even programs that present you with a series of text menus.)
Of course, there are legitimate reasons for liking a command line too. It's scriptable. You can set it up to do repetitive tasks automatically. (Not very useful for CD burning since you still need to put in new CDs, but this is an exception to the rule.) If you know what you're doing, it's often faster than a GUI. (Though again, I can essentially gurantee I can find files in a graphical tree much faster than with a command line, especially for something like CD backups where I'm looking in many of the directories to see if there's anything I need to archive. This is again an exception to the general case.)
But to say that a CLI program is more convenient or that you're better off with a CLI is nothing more than your personal opinion.
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Re:Useless (Score:4, Insightful)
Then I made teh switch to Linux and tried a couple GUI CD burning applications and hated them. I was so relieved when I found how easy the two step process of mkisofs and cdrecord was on the CLI that that's all I used for a long time.
Then I discovered k3b. I don't use KDE, but I really like the ease of use that k3b provides, so I've switched back from CLI to GUI.
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Re:Useless (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Useless (Score:4, Informative)
It's about as easy and logical to use as older versions of nero (5 and below) though this is just my own opinion having installed it 15 minutes ago.
K3B I think is better from a useability point. Again, my own opinion. YMMV.
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Re:No ISO support ... (Score:5, Funny)
I didn't realize Charlton Heston owned Nero stock...
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Re:But can it compete? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, most of the needs of the FOSS/Linux/BSD community are taken care of by the FOSS community and a whole variety of free software, so much so that most opportunities/markets are saturated.
However, when a well-recognized company tries to enter the Linux market, it faces comments such as the parent's. Why would any commercial software company take the Linux community seriously, as a potential market, when the Linux community does not take them seriously, unless it is free?
So NeroLinux is not free. Perhaps it is worse than GnomeBaker and K3B. But at least they recognize the Linux community. Encouraging Nero to try harder, rather than posting trollish comments about how it's not free and not as good as other software, would do more to help Linux's image in the corporate world.
After all, the FOSS community is not the be-all and end-all of software development.
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Re:But can it compete? (Score:4, Insightful)
If they are offering inferior software at a greater price than the competition, they cannot really complain if their product is not greeted with rapturous approval. When you consider that freedom is more important than free for many GNU/Linux users, the arrival of a non-free, inferior product will not make much impact.
It is good that companies are taking notice of GNU/Linux, but if they want to make an impact their software should be superior to that which currently exists or free. Or both.
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Re:But can it compete? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Warning: Proprietary DRM (Score:4, Informative)
If you look at the very first paragraph you will notice a list of software products that it covers, NeroLinux is *NOT* one of pieces of software covered by that license, making your whole point irrelevant to the discussion on NeroLinux (this does not mean I support the DRM in the windows version).
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Re:Nero would have better spent their time and $$$ (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't Linux about everyone using what suits them, and everyone having a choice? Did Nero have a choice? Yeps. They made Nero for Linux.
I've been using Linux for ages, and I mostly use console + WindowMaker. Guess what - k3b won't work on WM. GnomeWhatever? Same story. And so on, and so on.
Anyway, kudos to Nero.
I used to pay $20 (or was it $25?) for OSS Yamaha sound-card driver, years ago. I didn't mind doing it. If NeroLINUX works well, I won't mind paying for it either. If Total Commander shows up for Linux tomorrow, they'll be getting my money.
I don't use Linux because I want everything for free (although it would be nice). If you use Linux because of that, then skip commenting on this article, since it's obviuosly not intented for you.
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