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Chinese Huawei Takes on U.S. Telecom Market
Posted by
timothy
on Sun Apr 03, 2005 02:49 PM
from the thattawei dept.
from the thattawei dept.
ChipGuy writes "With funds on loan from the Chinese government, Chinese equipment giant, Huawei is undercutting big rivals like Cisco and Nortel, and is using money to buy its way into the U.S. market. Overseas in Europe and Asia it already has become a major force. There are parallels with auto industry and home appliances. It took a little while before prices became a determining factor and shifted growth away from North American vendors. Telecom will go through the same curve. Huawei is curently selling EVDO phones for about $130 and WCDMA phones about $250 which is about 30% than everyone else on the market. Huawei's agenda is pretty clear - get business and sales at any cost. And that means bad news for already struggling telecom industry."
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30% what? (Score:3, Insightful)
30%? (Score:4, Informative)
30% of?
30% more?
30% crappier?
Come on!
Re:30%? (Score:3, Funny)
They are using the SCO line of attack. They are confusing you with figures which make no sense, and nobody is stepping up to clear up their ambiguity, therefore, they make no sense.
Because none of it makes sense the only sane thing left to do is buy a phone.
Re:30%? (Score:2)
Re:30%? (Score:2)
It's the answer to everything... Just well, the wrong answer.
Re:30%? (Score:3, Funny)
"Microsoft Longhorn and your productivity will by about 40%!!!"
"Buy Apple, now 100% than Redmond!"
"Forget the Prius, the new Hummer hummer offers 40"
No substance, no refutable statement you could be sued for and the internet made consumers error-tolerant so they'll read what the marketing boys want them to read.
Profit!
Shouldn't this be what the WTO covers? (Score:4, Insightful)
a) violating the WTO rules currently.
b) too addicted to Chinese money to fund Bush's spending splurge/tax cutting spree to really bring any meaningful grievances against China....
Am I the only one who sees how insane Bush's spending policies are? Maybe it's not the wisest idea to become dependant on a country whose primary objective seems to be to destroy us...but then again, this country did elect Bush...twice....
Re:Shouldn't this be what the WTO covers? (Score:2, Insightful)
China, as a socialist country, relies on a lot of slave labour. This hardly makes competition fair. Mexico would be a better example for comparison: cheaper, but without slave labour.
Reports on current slave labour in China (Score:3, Informative)
Here are views from different sides:
UAW report [uaw.org], from the left.
This report [willthomas.net], from a fringe right-wing guy.
This report [hightowerlowdown.org], from Jim Hightower, also on the left.
Cache of Bob Johnson campaign site [64.233.167.104], right-winger. Relevant quote: "in dealing with the slave labor camps in Red China, we have to rmember that about 5% of China is in slave labor camps, amounting to 50 million Chinese working"
Indian NGOs site [indianngos.com]. See part about Chinese slaves ma
Re:If you are concerned about overspending... (Score:5, Insightful)
It is irrelevent if you think Bush spends less than would Kerry if Kerry would have a balanced budget.
The current deficits are >5% of GDP. This is insane. Compound that with the fact that no one saves any money in the US and you have a recipie for disaster.
Parent
Re:Mainly because military reduction is untenable. (Score:3, Insightful)
Okay, I just spent 5 minutes laughin. you can't be serious, can you?
The only country right now I see projecting force outside of it's own borders under strange ideas is actually the US,
Re:Mainly because military reduction is untenable. (Score:3, Insightful)
The US is doing this since it's existance more or less, there are plenty of people who know how to teach. School of the Ameri [soaw.org]
Re:If you are concerned about overspending... (Score:4, Insightful)
When I borrow, then I'm spending someone else's money and my future income. But I can default on that loan!
This is NOT saving money. Savings are when you have a liquid asset like cash, gold, stocks, bonds. Property is not a liquid asset. And loans are liabilities, NOT savings!!
In other coutries, like Japan, people actually save money. It is not uncommon for people to buy a car with cash. Heck, people can buy a house with cash. That is saving money.
When Japan's economy tanked, the situation is not catastophic. All that happens is people can lose money (purchasing power) in the inflation period.
In the US, the opposite is true. People buy everything with loans. What is most dangerous are 90+% financing of homes. If the housing market collapses thanks to high inflation thanks to collapsing US dolar thanks to trade deficit (see how deficits hurt the economy?), the mortages will be worth more than the property!! This can be catasrophic (banks going bankrupt!) which will bring down the economy into a depression much, much worse than in the 1930s (back then people didn't borrow money like they do now so it wasn't that bad :)
If the US doesn't improve its deficit situation (trade and fiscal), this collapse of the US economy can happen sooner rather than later. As soon as banks around the world start dumping US$ in favour of the EUR.
Parent
Re:If you are concerned about overspending... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Shouldn't this be what the WTO covers? (Score:5, Informative)
I'm amazed someone would think such a statement needs backing up.
Steel tariffs [bbc.co.uk], tax subsidies [bbc.co.uk], Gambling [theregister.co.uk], Cotton [tralac.org]. All kinds of stuff.
Parent
Re:Shouldn't this be what the WTO covers? (Score:3, Informative)
Tariffs imposed on Canadian softwood lumber.. the WTO has ruled against the US several times over several years but the US refuses to abide by the WTOs decision.
That and the closed border to Canadian beef is seen as one possible reason for Canada rejecting missle defense.
Also, the EU and Canada have just imposed retaliatory tariffs on various US products because of unfair US trade policies (Byrd ammendment).
It's sad that two of the US's biggest trading partners have to
Clarification... (Score:4, Informative)
Did anyone read this as... (Score:5, Funny)
zerg (Score:2)
Can anyone explain to me WHY? (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, pleas explaine WHY! (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Can anyone explain to me WHY? (Score:4, Insightful)
Because American managers and CEOs are self-serving and would rather have a global playing field on which to profit instead of just the domestic market. You see they'd rather outsource their companies to save money, except for the management jobs. They get rich, most Americans suffer, and in the long run the country goes to hell becuase the school system falls apart.
Under the pure capitalism, there is no minimum wage, which does in fact mean that Nike and Levis can move their garment factories back here, and there's plenty of employment. But since the jobs pay 3rd world wages, the country becomes a third world nation where the middle class barely exists, the owners and managers live like kings, and everybody else takes it up the ass.
Parent
Re:Can anyone explain to me WHY? (Score:3, Interesting)
unprofessional, worthless blog (Score:2, Offtopic)
Red menace! (Score:4, Funny)
Damn communists! Undercutting big rivals, using money to buy their way into the U.S. market! Can't trust 'em!
Huawei equipment is junk (Score:3, Informative)
At [carrier in S Asia] they failed for 3 weeks in a row to roll out one HLR only to barely succeed with thousands of CSR calls. But since they're cheap, the customer stuck with'm.
Can't wait for the junk to go turtle in the US.
Re:Huawei equipment is junk (Score:3, Interesting)
It is about time that someone put Cisco under some price pressure. A little competition in the market can only be good for the end user.
Another near monopoly to come crashing down.
Cisco, time to pull your finger out.
China crash will be fun... (Score:5, Insightful)
http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/2263.html [asianresearch.org]
Remember how the last Asian Crisis (tm) came about from lots of nonperforming loans of cheap money for phallic skyscrapers (among other things). Guess where the biggest concrete and steel dicks are these days? Shanghai, Chicom Hong Kong, and the coveted Taiwan ROC... I'm thinking Soros is chomping at the bit for the opportuninty to fuck China _and_ the US over in a spectacular fashion once the dike starts to crack...
Given that and recent reporting of labor shortages in Guangdong..
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/03/international/a
The next few years should be interesting indeed.
At any rate, there's enough dollars in China to support an interesting shopping spree. I'm thinking they'll buy GM after they declare bankrupcy, and use those brands plus Chinese labor (and, hopefully, American labor after the UAW is destroyed by bankrupcy renegotiation) to enter the US auto market.
Re:China crash will be fun... (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, the ramifications of that crash for the global economy we're living in now are going to be absolutely disastrous.
Old news... happening with Korea as well (Score:4, Interesting)
Hyundai is also doing a great job undercutting other auto compaines with surprisingly decent cars at excellent prices. 5 years ago I would never have considered owning a Hyundai, now I think they're just as good or better than some manufacturers.
If you don't think China already has a major stronghold on the US, you haven't been to a Wal-Mart lately. It's a global market, like it or not.
US Telecom's? (Score:5, Informative)
Ring My Bell (Score:4, Interesting)
- a competitor challenges them (offering new, better or cheaper services)
- They fail at getting government to subsidize them (they don't always fail though).
- They find that they can't negotiate or buy-off a limited truce with their new competitor.
At this point, if all of these money-backed attempts to ward off competition have failed they usually don't even bother looking internally at their own talent. They'll try buying up a third-party and use them as the signal that they're serious and starting to compete (whether they actually are or not).I'd prefer that my telecom bills weren't funnelling money out of the country to an internationally owned competitor. I'd prefer to support my friends who work as sysadmins of the local Bell's subcontracting agency (since being downsized from Bell employees). But my local Bell doesn't seem to even attempt to innovate unless it has a serious challenger. Despite the coming months of political dogma, I'm glad that a serious challenger is attempting to enter the American market.
Good news for consumers (Score:3, Insightful)
Competition is good for consumers, and in the long run it is good for the industry as well. It's only bad news for the entrenched players.
If China wants to tax its citizens so that it can sell me cheap telecoms products, I'm not going to complain.
Re:Good news for consumers (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course I would be complaining. But I just don't see them as becoming a monopoly. It is typical for a business, when entering into a new market to use "deep pockets" to try to undersell the established rivals.
Breaking into a market and establishing a monopoly are two very separate things. Sure, you have to do the first to do the second, but they are still separate.
Americans mad at the Chinese (Score:5, Insightful)
The best of luck to you, though. I have no wish to see the US come crashing down.
Re:Americans mad at the Chinese (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Americans mad at the Chinese (Score:3, Insightful)
Reminiscent of Hynix? (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, being a computer building geek at the time I had a lot of fun shoving enormous amounts of RAM in my system for under a hundred bucks. Maybe this whole Huawei thing will mean I can afford a good cell phone for less than $200 without signing up for some rediculously restrictive service plan.
Re:Reminiscent of Hynix? (Score:3, Insightful)
Uh, yeah... which part actually allows immigration these days?
!= bad news for ALL of the telecom industry (Score:4, Interesting)
In some ways this becomes a battle between the best interests of the infrastructure makers (a small segment) and the infrastructure users (all the rest of the economy).
The long-term impact is far less clear, however. The effect of cheap Chinese goods will depend on how the U.S. economy uses the less-costly telecom gear. If we only use it to download ring-tones while standing in the unemployment line, then it will be bad. But if businesses find growth-generating new innovations in business processes, services, and products that make use of cheap telecom infrastructure, then it will be a good thing.
Didn't Huawei steal Cisco software? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Didn't Huawei steal Cisco software? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am surprised to see that Cisco settled with them in US court. I expect the company in question, which has phalanxes of lawyers on salary, won't roll over so easily when it comes to defending the domestic market.
Parent
price or quality? (Score:3, Insightful)
I thought the problem with American cars in the 70s was quality, not (just) price.
AU market too (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=11321&he
Optus will be deplying ADSL 2+ (24/3.5mbps) in 300 exchanges. Nice to see that the Aussies have granted competitive access to their copper. Too bad the fuckwits in New Zealand can't follow a good example.
Re:Hey America (Score:2)
What is wrong with hiring better workers even if they are (shudder) foreign?
"and quit purchasing foreign tech"
Why not purchase the best, regardless?
Re:Huawei = Thiefs (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Who says Communism doesn't work? (Score:4, Insightful)
Communism as an economic system really hasn't worked out very often or very well on a national or global scale. China is now very capitalistic from an economic standpoint. China isn't refuting the arguments that communism's economics can't stand the test of time, I think they are proving that as they saw the need to shift.
Parent
Re:Who says Communism doesn't work? (Score:3, Insightful)
Now that we have computers and can better allocate resources, modi
Re:Who says Communism doesn't work? (Score:5, Insightful)
i think this is a good thing. there are too many weird ideas floating around among different world populations. i hope having to deal with them will spread the idea of ethnorelativism around some.
also, regardless of your opinion of the government, there are still 1.3 billion people who shouldn't be excluded from the global dialogue. if you want to change the government, then find ways to increase financial stability, social mobility and general education.
"social entrepreneurship" is a good place to start -- C.K. Prahalad has some good articles and books on it from a macro level. There are also many sources for learning how to do it on a microlevel. northsouthdev.org is one micro-level institution in nigeria doing social entrepreneurship. it was started by a Brit with 50,000 dollars. It has helped something like 1000 nigerians contribute to the economy. Micro Financing Institutes like his help local entrepreneurs who don't have the collateral to go to a normal bank get loans to start businesses. He has had a 0% default rate on the loans and has made a lot of money helping people.
With financial stability, social mobility and quality education, change in the government can happen. If these "democratic norms" don't exist, any government that was more free would have a serious likelihood of collapse.
I spent seven years in China. It is a wonderful place. I don't approve of everything the Chinese government does, but I do think that they are managing the economy well. I think that China will become an increasingly free country over the next 45 years.
It is important to understand that different peoples want different types of lives. The Chinese don't dream of an American life. They would not want to obsess over politics as much. In fact, the interest in politics would be so low if there was a democractic government put in place now, it would collapse or be twice as corrupt for that lack of interest alone. That's one of the reasons why Russia's government has regressed. That's why a lot of new democracies regress. Without the democratic norms already being in place, democracy fails one way or another.
Parent
Re:I hate Huawei (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, they've blatantly copied other vendors (mostly Cisco and Nortel, but you can find references or behaviour matching almost every other vendor), but when you look at the price and performance... well, who cares if it's a copy?
We completely disregarded their USB modems; they're crap. Their ethernet modems, however, are pretty decent, and cheap as rainwater. And the added bonus is: no drivers to mess with. Even if you want to add