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Linux Distro turns PCs into Night-time Clusters

Posted by CowboyNeal on Fri Apr 08, 2005 02:49 AM
from the imagine-an-ah-you-know-the-rest dept.
renai42 writes "An Australian security firm is about to launch a clustered Linux distribution based on openMosix that aims to utilise the unused nightly processing power of corporate desktops. Dubbed CHAOS, the distro is able to remotely boot a computer and run it on Linux without affecting the local hard disk. CHAOS is designed to provide dumb node power to a cluster run by existing full-featured clustering distributions such as Quantian and ClusterKnoppix."
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  • Useful? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Daxx_61 (828017) on Friday April 08 2005, @02:50AM (#12173848) Homepage
    I don't know whether it's just me and my uninformed nature, but it occurs to me that switching off these computers would be saving a hell of a lot of money. Rather than using them for something else - which I notice TFA is not clear on, something about a demonstration - why not just power down?

    From the Pure Hacking website - Internal on-site penetration testing gives the business the assurance it needs to conduct safely on the internet and with business partners.
    It would make a lot more sense if this was only intended for use in demonstrations and testing though, as I can imagine very few companies would feel a need to use this sort of distro on a nightly basis, but for one off activities it may be useful.

    Imagine a beo... oh, wait.
    • Re:Useful? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by gl4ss (559668) on Friday April 08 2005, @03:04AM (#12173899) Homepage Journal
      there are already corporations out there that turn part of their desktops into a cluster by night.

      they have a need for computation power that they can't satisfy and this gives them that at no extra investment besides electricity.

      if you power them down then they're doing nothing, your investment just sitting on there. by using them to calculate stuff for the engineering department they're doing something usefull and the return on investment on them gets better.
    • Although the power savings are something that the world could probably benefit from most large corporations probably have computing tasks that take up a large amount of CPU time, or if they do not could probably profit by providing some CPU time to other companies.
      An idea like this definitely makes sense to the corporate world, much like the idea of the 3rd shift in the industrial world. You might as well make use of your down time. I know a lot of the companies that I have been involved with do automatic
    • it occurs to me that switching off these computers would be

      Where I work (ehm...) at the univ all PCs are on at night such that others can log in remotely if they need to do distribute their load. And then there are some dedicated number crunching machines. I am not sure if it is appreciated to run SETI-at-home-stuff etc.

    • Re:Useful? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Jesus_666 (702802) on Friday April 08 2005, @06:18AM (#12174512)
      It would make a lot more sense if this was only intended for use in demonstrations and testing though, as I can imagine very few companies would feel a need to use this sort of distro on a nightly basis, but for one off activities it may be useful.

      It's not a company, but at my university (the University of Bremen, FYI) we have a computer lab full of Dual P4 Fedora boxen, some WinNT boxen and a few antique Sun Blade 100s. At least the Linux boxen are clustered at night and used to bruteforce the student's passwords. If they manage to discover your password your account is locked and you have to go to the admin and have a little talk with him concerning secure passwords.

      I can imagine that a lot of companies might be using similar means of making sure that the suits don't use immensely creative passwords like "love", "sex" or "god".
      • Re:Useful? (Score:4, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 08 2005, @04:06AM (#12174094)
        I work at Taco Bell too, and I let the computer running at night so our anti-virus can prevent robbers from stealing it.
  • If it needs to have a Knoppix image installed every night, does that mean I need to leave the Knoppix CD in the drive before I head home? Sounds like the plan would work except for all the lazy people in the office leaving their Mark Knopfler CDs in the drive instead of Linux.
    • by Soko (17987) on Friday April 08 2005, @02:56AM (#12173866) Homepage
      No.

      Most entreprise level desktops have Wake On LAN and PXE boot capability. You send a magic packet to each desktop to wakr it up, and then tell the PXE BIOS to boot ClusterKNoppix via TFTP.

      It's not that hard to do, even for lazy sysadmins.

      Soko
      • Most entreprise level desktops have Wake On LAN and PXE boot capability. You send a magic packet to each desktop to wakr it up, and then tell the PXE BIOS to boot ClusterKNoppix via TFTP.

        It doesn't sound like you've tried this. W.O.L. doesn't power-up the system when it's been shut-off, so it's really not of any use in this situation.

        PXE should be almost all you need... Set the machines to boot from the NIC first, and HDD second, but leave the Bootp and TFTP server off during the day... At night, turn

        • by Anonymous Coward
          WOL can definitely remote-start ATX machines that have been shut down. Requires support from LAN card/chip and motherboard, but most corporate desktops support the feature.
        • by pe1chl (90186) on Friday April 08 2005, @04:20AM (#12174143)
          W.O.L. doesn't power-up the system when it's been shut-off, so it's really not of any use in this situation.

          It doesn't sound like you've tried this.
          When configured correctly, it works. We do weekly maintenance and nightly installations of software that way. In some scheduled job, all systems get a wake-on-lan packet and they start, and run some install. The users are never bothered with it, unless their systems are offline at that time (e.g. laptops).
        • I use this daily to wake up my machines on the LAN from a wireless laptop. I've yet to see a machine that doesn't respond to this - of course I'm tending to use integrated NICs which don't require a separate jumper, but most BIOSes will wake on PCI events too...
              • by Hast (24833) <marcushast@gmail.com> on Friday April 08 2005, @06:08AM (#12174484)
                It isn't a software thing. It's done in hardware.

                You need a network card which supports it as well as a mainboard which supports it (or with built in networking, that usually supports it).

                To start it up you send a "magic" package to the NIC which tells it to boot. AFAIK it's just MAC level package with all FF in the data field or something like that. The NIC will then boot the computer just as if you had pressed the power key.
      • by boron boy (858013) on Friday April 08 2005, @03:46AM (#12174033) Homepage
        It's not that hard to do, even for lazy sysadmins
        I think you underestimate my degree of laziness.
  • by Soko (17987) on Friday April 08 2005, @02:53AM (#12173860) Homepage
    CHAOS is designed to provide dumb node power to a cluster

    Hell, my nodes are occupied by the dumb during the day, too. Have we found an actual productive use for lusers?

    Soko
  • Wow... (Score:5, Funny)

    by CleverNickedName (644160) on Friday April 08 2005, @02:56AM (#12173863) Journal
    Imagine a hackneyed cliché of these!
  • Now I hope that SETI and those other protein folding projects can really get a boost. Who knows? A company which is carrying out its own research may actually be helping its competitor giving it the processing power in the nighttime! And what about i/p stuff, if someone makes a new finding will it be credited to the computer or to the whole cluster ? I think these have to be sorted out first. These issues have not come up partly because SETI and others have not found out anything significant yet. But who kn
    • Projects like Folding@Home [stanford.edu] already have generated usable results [stanford.edu]. Their FAQ [stanford.edu] answers the question "Who "owns" the results? What will happen to them?":

      Unlike other distributed computing projects, Folding@home is run by an academic institution (specifically the Pande Group, at Stanford University's Chemistry Department), which is a nonprofit institution dedicated to science research and education. We will not sell the data or make any money off of it.

      Moreover, we will make the data available for others to
  • by kyle90 (827345) <kyle90@gmail.com> on Friday April 08 2005, @03:00AM (#12173887) Homepage Journal
    I remember hearing about how in the future, we would be able to plug in to the internet and not only access information but also spare processing power. It would be really handy; most of the time you are only using a fraction of the power of your computer (for example, my usage is hovering at around 8%, and I have a movie playing as well as several other applications running), but when you need more processing power, you could get it on demand. Of course, the lag would make it too slow for video games and such, but for some computationally-intensive stuff (video editing, ray-tracing, etc.) it would be perfect.
    • Not sure what kind of distributed computing you can really do over latency measured in milliseconds. One of the big bottlenecks for today's supercomputers is bus/shared memory access time. I can't really see this being useful for much more than we already do - SETI@Home and so on, where you send packets to be processed and after a few hours the node sends them back.

      So yeah not sure if we could ever have a true supercomputer distributed over the net (as it is now, with the light speed as it is!) that's pa
    • I remember hearing about how in the future, we would be able to plug in to the internet and not only access information but also spare processing power. (...) for some computationally-intensive stuff (video editing, ray-tracing, etc.) it would be perfect.

      It's easy enough for SETI which will verify results, and most would be simply discarded. Same with cracking crypto challenges and a few other. But what about video editing, ray-tracing? Someone could just insert junk into it, and you'd never know until yo
      • > I was just thinking this today as I was watching > my desktop grind to a halt as my CPU became maxed > out with all the audio encoding I was doing. You definitely want to take a look at Openmosix !
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 08 2005, @03:01AM (#12173889)
    Corporate Linux Fundamentalist 1: There's this new product that uses all our PC's overnight to harness their power for the greater good. It runs on Linux. It would be a good way for us to become more Linux friendly in the workplace.
    IT Director: Um, sure, OK, what's it called?
    Corporate Linux Fundamentalist: Um, Chaos?

    Could they not of thought of a better name, how about .Grid or something else Microsoftie, well at least it wasn't called KAy05
  • by AhaIndia (725879) on Friday April 08 2005, @03:16AM (#12173937) Journal
    "We were just looking for a groovy name that would stick out in a world of groovy names,"


    Actually their first choice was "Mandriva" but somebody had recently taken that "groovy" name... Aahhh, just missed!



  • for information (Score:4, Informative)

    by cotyx (699460) on Friday April 08 2005, @03:26AM (#12173963)
    Hello For information this kind of stuff already exists, from long time. I invite you to visit this webpage : http://www.lri.fr/~fedak/XtremWeb/introduction.php 3 [www.lri.fr] Regards
  • Quality (Score:5, Funny)

    by Indy Media Watch (823624) on Friday April 08 2005, @03:30AM (#12173984) Homepage
    From the press-release [purehacking.com]

    What is CHAOS - the supercomupter for your wallet?

    The most significant change to the project, as far as the open source community will be conerned, is the quality of the distribution

    As they are concerned about quality, any chance they could put all that unused computing power towards a Goddamned spell-checker?

  • by Gollum (35049) on Friday April 08 2005, @03:52AM (#12174054)
    Here is a suggestion that would allow computers that are not in use to be "co-opted" for use in the cluster.

    Identify the PC's that COULD theoretically be used, and collect their MAC addresses. Also, configure them to try netboot first, then fall back to booting from the hard drive.

    When you want to perform computations, send a WakeOnLAN packet targeted to each of these computers. Wait for netboot solicitations, then, if you have recently sent a WOL packet to that computer, respond with an appropriate netboot directive, booting the PC into a cluster node configuration, with all details loaded from the cluster director.

    Otherwise, allow the netboot solicitation to time out, and the computer will boot into its normal configuration.

    Not sure how OpenMosix handles nodes that simply vanish, but users could simply reboot the PC when they arrive in the morning, if the computation is still ongoing. Otherwise, the cluster director could remote shutdown/reboot each node prior to the user arriving at work.

    Unused PC's would not consume power, cluster node PC's could be instructed to immediately drop the monitor into Power-save mode, etc.

    The cluster director could decide how many nodes to start, or the location of the nodes, to optimise the comms between it and the servers.

    An idea with potential, I think!
  • "An Australian security firm is about to launch a clustered Linux distribution based on openMosix..."

    You're kidding me, right? CHAOS has been out for some 2 years (at least). Unless I'm misunderstanding, or another Australian organization is doing this...:

    CHAOS Distro [mq.edu.au]

    But what do I know.
  • Does anybody have some example of real (non-scientific nor SETI) example of usage of such a cluster? I want say - what kind of job can such a machine do, especially if generaly network latency/throuhput sucks (standard is still 100 Mbit).
  • All my "corporate desktops" are running as a cluster [openssi.org] 24/7.

    Initialy the idea was just to simplify maintenance, but doing a make -j 128 kernel_image is quite fun.
  • This seems quite similar to the concept of Inferno (http://www.vitanuova.com/ [vitanuova.com] from Vita Nuova Limited, except Inferno runs hosted on the operating system (it can run natively). Similar concept, different implementation. I'll stick with Plan 9, though :)
  • run it on Linux without affecting the local hard disk.

    Does this also mean: no swap?


  • Converting my old MPEG2 encoded porno movie collection into DivX could really benefit from this.

    My ol' PII 300 takes a night per movie basically.

    Been going for 60 nights now, only 300 to go.

    Could this be a way to get the hole shebang done in a night?

    What a wonderous time we live in.
  • This is approximately how desktop systems should work... As standard in the daytime.

    The typical user only makes use of around 1-5% of the power of their machine. That's 95% of your investment sitting doing sweet FA.

    So, your OS should have network load balancing built in and when you start a process or sub process it should run on the fastest kit available.

    It's very simple to tack this kind of functionality on to Unix (including Linux here). Mozix does it in a rather nicely integrated fashion, but you can
  • woof! (Score:3, Funny)

    by spurious cowherd (104353) on Friday April 08 2005, @05:22AM (#12174352)
    Linux Distro turns PCs into Night-time Clusters

    Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "zombie process"

  • No thanks! (Score:4, Funny)

    by pandrijeczko (588093) on Friday April 08 2005, @06:32AM (#12174580)
    My company already runs Windows on desktops and there's more than enough "chaos" during the day without more needed during the night...
  • Hello? McFly? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Spackler (223562) on Friday April 08 2005, @07:30AM (#12174820) Journal
    Nice. A hacking company wants me to load a tiny 6 megabyte linux client into my secure network that then becomes a dumb node in my cluster, "without disturbing (or even touching) the contents of the local hard disk". A company that says they use the power to crack passwords.

    Yeah, sign me up with the full knowledge of how many company network policies I would be violating, and the fact that I would not trust them as far as I could throw a datagram.

    Hmmm, it quacks like a duck. I would swear they taught us this in both "Social Engineering" and Advertising. Give the "mark" a little benifit, and then take over his world.

  • by wootest (694923) on Friday April 08 2005, @09:55AM (#12176067)
    Slave to Microsoft Office by day, supercomputer with immense powers by night!
    • Re:Seriously?? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sstrick (137546) on Friday April 08 2005, @03:04AM (#12173901)
      No, but I can see companies that need to crunch large datasets installing this to do their own processing at night.

    • Re:Seriously?? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Ersatz Chickenweed (868568) on Friday April 08 2005, @03:10AM (#12173920)
      Seems to me that what TFA is suggesting is that organizations can use this to gain part-time Beowulf capabilities on machines that could be running Windoze or whatever during normal office hours -- they wouldn't just be giving the processing time away to some random project over the Internet (although that could easily be done too), but using it for in-house projects where an outside connection probably wouldn't even be needed in most cases.
    • allow their PCs to be booted remotely

      The actual booting could be controlled locally.

      used for a task outside their control

      Yeah, I'd want to see some security measures in place, like running it in User Mode Linux or something. A dedicated client program like SETI@Home is one thing. A full OS with the capability to fsck with your hardware is another.

      which doesn't make them any money.

      But it could help save them money. Lots of OSS users have no viable way to contribute back to their favorite projects.

    • The task is of course inside the corporation's control. Getting the queuing software under control can be a bit of an adventure.
    • Re:WTF??? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Professeur Shadoko (230027) on Friday April 08 2005, @08:02AM (#12175010)
      This is at night. Elecricity is cheap at night.
      Well, at least in my country, where nuclear power plants like to have a steady load.

      Computing on workstations at night is probably waaaaaaaaaaay cheaper than on a supercomputer during the day, then ;-)