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E-mail As the New Database
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Apr 22, 2005 05:35 PM
from the saving-for-a-rainy-day dept.
from the saving-for-a-rainy-day dept.
jira writes "BBC has an article confirming the trend of using inbox as a sort of personal database. At my workplace I can personally attest to the growing sizes of those pst files and an unwillingness to erase any emails because of 'loss of information'." From the article: "The trend has become more pronounced as the services have dramatically increased their storage capacity in response to upstart Gmail offering a free service with 1,000 megabytes (Mb) of storage." Update: 04/22 23:03 GMT by Z : To reflect that the story is at respected news organization BBC, not a BBS.
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Correction (Score:5, Informative)
Mb vs MB (Score:4, Informative)
8Mb = 1MB
I hope this clears things up!
Re:Mb vs MB (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes exactly, and some people type "There going to the store to get groceries." some people type "Their going to the store to get groceries." and some people type "They're going to the store to get groceries."
The only reason why it doesn't seem universal is because people don't always use the right one. That does NOT make it more or less correct.
Parent
2120 MB (Score:5, Funny)
Re:2120 MB (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:2120 MB (Score:4, Funny)
- Joining high volume Yahoo! Groups and Google Groups, and getting them to forward every message to me. There are a bunch of really weird groups in other countries that send p0rn around to each other.
- Every single kernel, debian, fc, slackerware, apache, mysql, etc. mailing list we could find... and WHOA we got a lot of mail from that
- P0rn sites ("Enter your email address for free p0rn in your email" really gets you on a lot of spam lists)
- Google "email mailing lists"
In a week, I had 29,000 emails in my inbox taking up 2.1 GB. I'm suprised Google hasn't terminated my account since I'm over my quota and get about 5000+ emails a day now.
Parent
They need it all and they need it all the time (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:if it's on a server... (Score:3, Informative)
Seriously attempting to keep a backup of this mess means mailservers that refuse to
Managers never delete email (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Managers never delete email (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Managers never delete email (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the same reason some people answer emails in person. They don't want it sitting in your mailbox either...
Parent
Re:Managers never delete email (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Managers never delete email (Score:3, Interesting)
Our company has the same policy, probably for the reason of destroying such a paper trail. The supervisors and other people of responsiblity who aren't in their own offices with secretaries aren't buying it and are asking for instructions on how to store emails locally and then make back up CDs of same.
Actually... (Score:3, Funny)
I don't know about you, but my Gmail has 2121.046851 megabytes of storage space. I mean 2121.047702 megabytes. I mean 121.048913 megabytes. I mean...
Why not? (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, I would like it to be free (as all other Google's services), and I would not mind having the ads at the side if for example I have a document (.DOC,
Sounds like a Press hit to me. (Score:3, Interesting)
It says something about trends in sw development (Score:3)
Re:It says something about trends in sw developmen (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd say metadata, and its acceptance.
When people used to have a couple hundred mp3s or photos, it wasn't a big deal to just operate by file names or date imported. This is completely anecdotal, but I'd guess people are starting to be smarter about tagging their docs, pics, music, etc properly and thoroughly now that your average user is acumulating larger and larger a
I want a real RDBMS (Score:4, Interesting)
But searching sucks, and I depend on Evolution to do virtual folders. I'd love it even more if my email server was actually a true RDBMS where I could have, besides the traditional IMAP interface, a D [dmoz.org.] (Tutorial D [dbappbuilder.sf.net] or D4 [alphora.com.] or something the like) language interface where I could query at will, and save my queries as views that would show up in IMAP as (virtual) folders.
BTW, even non-relational ISO SQL would be so much better than what we have now.
Re:I want a real RDBMS (Score:3, Informative)
Worst. Submission. Ever. (Score:5, Insightful)
BBS = The BBC
pst = Microsoft Outlook
Gmail is no upstart, they're run by Google [google.com]. Gmail currently offers 2121MB (that's Megabytes, not Mb - which is MegaBITS)
This isn't news. This is what Google had in mind when they started the Gmail service.
Re:Worst. Submission. Ever. (Score:5, Interesting)
Inbox is for messages you have just received or otherwise still require your attention. If you got it four years back, it doesn't belong in your inbox.
When you get a magazine subscription via snail mail, do you leave your back issues out at streetside, clogging up the mailbox, or do you bring them in and store them in a rack or closet? Why would electronic mail be any different?
Parent
Re:Worst. Submission. Ever. (Score:3, Insightful)
A few email tips I try to live by (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A few email tips I try to live by (Score:4, Interesting)
I do agree that stopping of the Nth message without having gone through them all will cause things to pile up. This is a function of scheduling. Read through all your tasks before embarking on any one.
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Screw the phone (Score:4, Interesting)
I definately don't want to see you in person unless it's a social visit and I happen to have a moment of freetime.
I want you to list out, in written detail, exactly what you need so I can reply, in written detail, with useful information. Be clear, consise, and detailed.
I plan to pull up this email next week when you claim we never discussed the topic. I'll kindly remind you that we did discuss the topic and you agreed to take care of your business. If I asked to record the phone call, you'd probably have a panic attack.
If you really have something important to discuss, you can write it down. Spoken words are meaningless and forgettable.
Phone calls are interruptions that require my full attention. Emails can be replied to as my time becomes available.
Parent
What I would like to see (Score:3, Interesting)
Back in the days of paper, people had document shredders, if they did not want a record of a conversation it was easy to convey information without having a record.
Re:What I would like to see (Score:3, Insightful)
Getting Things Done (Score:3, Informative)
It's the lowest-overhead way I've found of staying organized. One of his tenets is getting your Inbox (both physical and virtual) to empty. I've done it.
Here I am on a Friday afternoon with exactly three items in my email Inbox, and none in my physical one -- although I've been working on three different projects today, and am currently involved (off and on) in a usability role in half a dozen others.
The biggest benefit so far in implementing this system has been rapid context switches: the biggest benefit so far has been faster context switches: I'm moving from project to project, meeting to meeting, and nothing gets lost - email, papers, usability test results, are all quickly and accurately accessible.
I guess my point is that even if email is being used as a personal database, it probably shouldn't be. Or at least, it should be structured in such a way that items are (1) only archived if they need to be for future reference, and there's no action to be taken on them, or (2) filed because you're waiting for someone else to do something, but you think you'll need to act once they're done.
I've only been at this for two weeks, but the benefits thus far have been dramatic, with very little overhead. Look up the book in your library or favorite local bookstore; I've been very impressed.
Re:Getting Things Done (Score:3, Informative)
I forgot to add that my favorite GTD-related blog is 43 Folders [43folders.com].
David Gelernter's Lifestream (Score:3, Interesting)
But, I find my email working in exactly the way he proposed. My email package provides the best database I have of my work and communication. Searchable by date, correspondent, content, subject; control-click to organize by date, sender, header; automatic filters to sort by same; subfolders; attachments of all kinds accessable by the search; and I can add to it from anywhere by emailing myself. I use email to mainain to-do (email myself), I use email to maintain a calendar of past activities by searching for email on the topic (when did we do X?) , I use email to store minor documents and search for them as attachments. By using pop and downloading all email to my harddrive, I have no limitations of an account.
So, while dubious about "lifestreams", I've backed into it as the core of my work habits.
Outlook makes this a nightmare (Score:5, Insightful)
No fun.
Users that like to keep everything on the planet should probably think twice about trusting it all to Microsoft Outlook (or any local POP email client, for that matter)
IMAP rocks.
Nothing new here, shall we move along now? (Score:5, Interesting)
In spite of Google's business principle against evil and in spite of the my frequent use of gmail, I think it is fundamentally bad and potentially evil. "Possession is nine points of the law", and there is no good reason for Google to be in possession of *MY* email. A few GBs of storage is *NOT* the issue, and I have plenty of free GBs right here in my possession, even including space for the indexes. Perhaps Google really is a good company and they will never abuse the power of possessing someone's email--but the historical evidence does not support that belief. Every power gets abused sooner or later.
In simplest terms, here is the threat of online gmail: Would you want your worst enemy to have access to all of your email? If you have put it into gmail, then all it would take is a single password leak.
The constructive alternative is obvious. Gmail should live primarily on your own disk, preferably integrated with the Google Desktop. The nine points of possession would remain on *YOUR* side, since you would still possess all of your email.
Many extended services could then be built on that model...
Legitimate concerns about Google and privacy (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, after having this pointed out to me it I realised -- "too late" -- that this should have been obvious to me, only I had never bothered to give it any thought.
My point is, thanks for reminding us all of this fact in an appropriate forum. Google fanboys may mod you down but, you raise a very important and relevant point that deserves consideration. I hope I'm not the only one who thinks so.
Parent
why I don't (Score:3, Interesting)
And, yes, I keep archived copies of my .pst files so they can't "accidentally" disappear from the server.
I think it's a great idea! (Score:3, Interesting)
- This is a good thing
- it is an emergent property of email technology and the role of email in everyday life
- it happens because email forms a chain of events related to your life that maintains temporal and spatial relations of information
- this is good for finding things you might want again
- I think services like GMail need to expand on this idea and continue to add features that make email a better personal database -- searchable on more axies, and good at filtering out the noise
If you are interested, read my http://www3.telus.net/cgapeart/2005/04/email-as-pAll the time (Score:3, Informative)
I have a filter set up that checks for
"From:kejaed@gmail.com" and "To:kejaed@gmail.com"
basically checking if I sent the message to myself. If this is the case, it's filed under the "notes to self" label. Quite handy, although searching for what I want usually gets me there too.
Re:Guilty (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Mother-In-Law's AOL id as Thin Client environment (Score:4, Interesting)
It's been very useful for helping maintain her system - when Somethine Bad happens to her PC, whether it's spyware or bit rot or hard drive problems, whichever child is nearby can just format the disk, reinstall whatever generation of Windows is handy, get a new AOL coaster (I picked one up in the hotel lobby last trip :-), and she can log in and all her bookmarks, email, buddy lists, etc. are all there right away. We did have to buy an actual install-from-scratch version of XP once, because she'd lost the old Windows ME disk, but WinME was such a loss that scraping it off the disk and getting rid of Compaq's "helpful" system backup software were a pleasure anyway.
Meanwhile, *my* mom's still happily using her decade-old Mac Performa 630 with System 7.x, Netscape and Eudora, keeps her data on disk as text files that she backs up to floppy, had to buy some more RAM a few years ago so a new printer driver would work reliably, and her only real problem is that her local Mac repair guy retired and no longer makes house calls. It's much more reliable, but she's never been afraid of technology.
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Re:Guilty (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Guilty (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Guilty (Score:3, Informative)
...just like the entire planet is guilty (Score:5, Interesting)
I know a small handful of people who tend to keep their email cleaned out and very small. For everyone else, it's a huge. mostly convenient database.
This "story" is only about 1% less sill than reporting that "recent study shows people prefer to breathe than to stop".
Parent
Re:...just like the entire planet is guilty (Score:4, Interesting)
"Savers" are easy to spot. They delete almost nothing except spam. We have quite a few users who would need a couple of the two gig Gmail accounts to hold all of their data.
"Cleaners" are also easy to spot. When someone has been with the company for 5+ years and their Exchange mailbox size is less than 20MB, you know they're not using their email as a database. These folks feel real stress when their email stretchs beyond the end of the page. My boss is one of these and he has very little understanding for why anyone would need a lot of email storage.
The "hybrids" are more difficult to spot. Many are not true hybrids, but actually "savers" who archive email semi-regularly. True "hybrids" delete most stuff, but whatever they deam "important" gets put in a nice mailbox folder tree. Over time these can become quite large, but it's never as bad as with real "savers". My purely subjective and anecdotalo observation is that these folks make up the most "normal" email user group. If you have three friends and two of them are freeks, the normal one is probably a "hybrid" email user.
I'm personally a "saver" who archives semi-regularly. Thanks to me, we basically don't have strict email limits anymore and people can store almost as much as they'd like. We never harrass VPs with multi-gig storage. But I have a lot of respect for "cleaners" too. For some reason, they never really have the problem of missing data that us "savers" are so worried about. The "cleaners" are like those folks you know that have absolutely no clutter in their houses, no junk drawer and no closet full of old hard drives. The truth is that we're afraid of losing things we "may need someday" but they know the truth is that we'll never find it in the clutter anyway, so why live with the clutter to begin with.
TW
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Mailinator (Score:5, Informative)
Welcome to Mailinator(tm) - Its no signup, instant anti-spam service. Here is how it works: You are on the web, at a party, or talking to your favorite insurance salesman. Wherever you are, someone (or some webpage) asks for your email. You know if you give it, you're gambling with your privacy. On the other hand, you do want at least one message from that person. The answer is to give them a mailinator address. You don't need to sign-up. You just make it up on the spot. Pick jonesy@mailinator.com or bipster@mailinator.com - pick anything you want (up to 15 characters before the @ sign).
Later, come to this site and check that account. Its that easy. Mailinator accounts are created when mail arrives for them. No signup, no personal information, and when you're done - you can walk away - an instant solution to one way spammers get your address. Its an anti-spam solution for everyone. The messages are automatically deleted for you after a few hours.
Let'em spam.
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Re:Mailinator (Score:5, Informative)
I use spamgourmet all the time, and it is fantastic. You set up an account like psychofox123@spamgourmet.com and decide where emails will be forwarded to. You can then create email address on the fly like slashdot.5.psychofox123@spamgourmet.com which will direct the first 5 messages towards your normal email box. It also does clever things like masking the from address if you reply to an incoming email. You can reset the number of messages allowable to particular alias at any time, and you can create a 'watch word' which will only allow new aliases to be created when they contain the watchword (to stop people just creating nonsense aliases for your account, after they realise you are using spamgourmet).
Check it out!
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Re:Mailinator (Score:3, Interesting)
In short, you don't have a mailinator account, you can check the e-mail for any account you can name.
Tell the nytimes your email is nytimes@mailinator.com. THen go to mailinator, type nytimes into the account box and check the mail. Heck, there might even still be emails from someone elses nytimes account signup. (they purge them regularily though)
Wow, 2 gigs... (Score:4, Interesting)
I am suprised the RIAA has not gone after email companies yet, they have to be an attractive target. It is going to be an easy way of sharing MP3's. I might have a CD, rip the best songs to MP3's and email all my friends. Hell, maybe we'll even form an email group that does nothing but share MP3's. I wonder if the RIAA will come after them if that becomes the next trend.
Why on earth would a person need 2 gigabytes for email? If it is a company, they must have their own storage, nobody would want to trust a free email account for buisness.
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Re:Corporate Policy (Score:3)
IANAL, but I would hazard a guess that your company might be in deep shit if they ever go to court and in the discovery phase are required to produce emails older than 30 days, unless you are maintaining some form of back up. These days, *everything* can seemingly be construed as discoverable evidence - meaning even Instant Messaging traffic should be recorded and backed up if it concerns business operations.
Now, I am sure your legal dept knows what its doing, but I am very suprised to hear that you nuk
Re:Most email is crap (Score:3, Insightful)
Truth is this is the only real reason I left my last job four years ago. After six years I had become the go-to guy for every damn thing that computed. My ability to accomplish anything was approaching zero. Now, another half decade later, the same thing is occurring.
As far as email goes my policy is; delete nothing, period. Spam is the only exception.