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Send Email to Utah, Go to Jail
Posted by
timothy
on Sun Jun 26, 2005 05:24 PM
from the set-engines-to-ludicrous dept.
from the set-engines-to-ludicrous dept.
Talaria writes "The Institute for Spam and Internet Public Policy is reporting that two new laws in Utah and Michigan are going into effect next week, creating 'do not email' registries for children's email addresses. According to ISIPP, 'Email marketers who send unpermitted messages to email addresses or domains on the child protection registries in Michigan and Utah face stiff penalties including prison and fines.'" (Note that ISIPP has a vested interest in publicizing these laws, since they offer a service intended to establish that senders are in fact within the law.)
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Enforcement Across the Pacific (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Enforcement Across the Pacific (Score:5, Funny)
Its the only way to be sure.
Parent
Re:Enforcement Across the Pacific (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Enforcement Across the Pacific (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Enforcement Across the Pacific (Score:5, Insightful)
There are two versions of the meaning of atheist. One is the technical one, as the word is really a-theist meaning not theist or without theism. So if you are not a theist, you are an atheist. Similar to amoral (not moral), atypical (not typical), asexual (without sexuality), etc.
The other is the non-technical one which some label themselves and claim "I believe there is no God". Since that involves active belief, it is faith-based (just of an opposite nature) but isn't strictly atheism.
Since I do not hold the belief that there is one or more gods or goddesses, I am not a theist therefore I classify myself as an atheist.
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Re:Enforcement Across the Pacific (Score:5, Interesting)
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States use unenforcable laws to complain (Score:4, Insightful)
There are lots of these bills. Too many /.ers saw the word "Utah" and instantly ignored the fact that Michigan introduced it too, or even ignored the rest of the post.
frob
Parent
Correction (was:Enforcement Across the Pacific) (Score:5, Informative)
But indeed, there still isn't a way to enforce any anti-spam law(s) across varies national borders. Frankly, considering that the existing laws could not even be enforced in the spamhole known as state of Florida (that is a part of the United States,) what chance is there that they're enforced anywhere else outside of United States?
Parent
It's a bit more complicated then that. (Score:5, Insightful)
Right now a lot of Taiwanese bussness men are taking advantage of the fact that they are "Chinese" in order to make money in the quickly growing chinese economy. Lots of Taiwanese companies have plants and whatnot in China.
Parent
Re:Enforcement Across the Pacific (Score:3, Interesting)
Does Utah have any jurisdiction over what happens? I sorta doubt it, though I'm not exactly up on my communication law.
(As a related point, does it work the same as if someone in a state that allows people to record telephone calls w/o the other party's knowledge or consent records a call to a two-party state? I don't know how that works either, but I would think it's the same.)
Re:Enforcement Across the Pacific (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, that's easy. Teey'll just shut off the ISDN line to South Dakota. Problem will be solved in 10 minutes.
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Re:Enforcement Across the Pacific (Score:5, Funny)
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How do *I* get on the list? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:How do *I* get on the list? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why not revise the bill to a tiny "wants spam" list? Would make it easier to maintain.
I dont live in utah (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I dont live in utah (Score:4, Insightful)
And what's next? Arresting some old man in line at the grocery store for making funny faces at the lady's kid in the shopping car - trying to make the kid laugh or something?
Why don't we just lock children away until they're adults. That way we won't have to worry about them and they will grow up to be perfect, healthy, safe and sane and we won't have to baby-proof everything.
Parent
Am I the only one.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Dear Santa, Re: Your Message (Score:5, Insightful)
oy.... (Score:3, Interesting)
I remember how easy it was to get the DNC list from donotcall.gov for five different area codes, for free (if you lied a couple times about your tax information or something like that).
What's going to be in place for this to be stopped in this case?
Re:oy.... (Score:4, Insightful)
What are you talking about? The national Do Not Call list works. The whole point is that it's publicly available. What's the problem with that? It's now easy to prosecute violators.
Parent
Re:oy.... (Score:3, Funny)
I remember how easy it was to get the DNC list from donotcall.gov for five different area codes, for free (if you lied a couple times about your tax information or something like that).
I got a copy of all the area codes for free without lying at all. I am a seller of products who calls only consumers with whom I have an established business relationship or from whom I have obtained the express written agreement to call. So I'm an "exempt organization", and therefore I can access the entire do-not-call
Re:oy.... (Score:4, Informative)
Well, I have the database. I downloaded it. That's a fact. In order to get permission to download the whole database, I had to claim that I was an exempt organization. According to the website [donotcall.gov], "Exempt Organizations include charities or non-profit organizations, organizations engaged in political solicitations or surveys, or Sellers or Telemarketers that call ONLY consumers with whom they have an established business relationship or from whom they have obtained the express written agreement to call." Also according to that website, exempt organizations are not required to pay for access to the database.
I applied as an exempt organization (I'm a Seller who only calls consumers with whom I have an established business relationship), was approved, and downloaded the full national list.
Parent
Re:oy.... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:oy.... (Score:5, Informative)
While I agree with your point in principle (that this list will not be effective), you've used a pretty bad example. I'm on the DNC list, as are many people I know. Once that list kicked in, we all had a period of about a month or so where the calls were tapering off and after that, dead silence. That thing works like a champ! I still got calls, but only from groups that are legally exempt from the list, which is a WAY smaller group than before. I went from 2 to 4 solicitor calls a day to about 1 every two weeks, if that. The others that I know have had similar experiences.
Parent
sigh... (Score:3, Insightful)
George Carlin was right about the Pussification of America(TM).
Token Law (Score:5, Insightful)
Freedom (Score:3, Interesting)
Brought to you by ISIPP.
More feel-good legislation (Score:5, Insightful)
No, not really. But the public will think they are doing something and go back to watching Survivor or whatever until their next wave of "government must do X about Y" feelings comes over them.
What is Utah really like? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:What is Utah really like? (Score:5, Funny)
I think that's Washington D.C. you're referring to.
Parent
Re:What is Utah really like? (Score:5, Funny)
Basically they have all the good and bad of every state in the union; in varying degrees. They have a lot of rural areas which drag then down a bit in the statistics.
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/lds_dem.html [adherents.com]
http://www.netstate.com/states/alma/ut_alma.htm [netstate.com]
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Just like any other place... (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, I'm a Mormon, but I'm originally from the south (North Florida... basically an extension of Georgia with an Alabama twang) and I'd never been to Utah at all until I was 19, and not for any appreciable amount of time until I was 21 and was going to college. I have no blood relatives from Utah.
Here's what I can't stand about Utah - climate. Hate it. I'm from Florida and I like my oxygen soaking and mosquito infested thank you very much. I'm tired of going through a tube of Chapstick every four days and I hate having to put lotion on my hands every day or watch them crack and bleed. My wife wants to stay in Salt Lake for my career... and her skin breaks out around humidity... don't know how we're going to arrange this one.
Some portions of culture - as noted, yes, I'm a Mormon, but I'd never been to Utah before I grew up. Some portions of the population are amazingly zealous (a small town or two in Utah actually has declared itself a "UN free zone", whatever that may mean), but so long as you stay out of the geographical fringes and don't go attacking people for whatever reason, you're pretty much OK. There's a lot more anti-Mormon activity here than there was in the South (and that's saying something), which I'm not a big fan of. I've never stood outside of someone else's building to pamphlet it, blare at those who enter it with megaphones, or break up other people's wedding parties, but there's a lot of folks there that seem to like to do it to the Mormons.
As far as the state being the "reddest" in the nation, that's true, but take a look at the political affiliation of the mayor of Utah's biggest city - yup, Salt Lake's mayor is a Democrat.
Take a look at the Senate minority leader, Harry Reid. He's a Mormon, too. It would appear the democrats don't have that much of a problem with Mormons after all.
Also, should it really surprise people that a bunch of conservative minded people should vote for a (here's a shocker) conservative party? Or that people should vote for others in their peer groups? Sure, lots of Mormons get elected but guess what - the majority of the people in Utah are MORMONS. You could even look at it as a matter of probability - if you were to randomly select something from a bag and 75% of the objects in the bag were one color, which would you be most likely to select? Apply the dynamics of winner-take-all voting on there and you're bound to get more Mormons in government. You may also note that blacks are very often elected by majority black areas and Jews in majority Jewish areas. Is it really that surprising that a place with a population up to 90% Mormon in some areas would vote for a Mormon and would allow their religious beliefs to maybe come into their voting?
As far as Utah bringing down American society as we know it, I hardly think Utah's four or five electoral votes could have that effect. And the people you're largely thinking of are evangelicals - and many of those are out there burning Books of Mormon and causing the Mormons a lot of trouble.
Paranoid political theories aside, Mormons don't (or most certainly don't) discuss politics from the pulpit. No non-profit group can without risking its non-profit status. Ironically, this has been used against a lot of Anti-Mormon groups that attack Mormon candidates based on religion.
I'm actually a BYU student in Provo, the most Republican city in the most Republican state in the Union. BYU does have a large Democrats club that actually WON last year's debate against the Republican club (whooped 'em big time), and the debate was scored by a firm, straight party-line Republican professor (I know because I've talked with him about these issues privately from time to time).
However, it shouldn't be assumed that all of the professors share his views. Of the professors I know who have expressed political views, Democrats are at least even with Republicans, and there's even
Parent
Utah is great in some ways, not so great in others (Score:5, Insightful)
If you really, really, really hate Mormons (and I'd love to know why if you do, please say "intolerance on their part" so I can laugh at your intolerance), and you like to complain about obnoxious liquor laws, then it might not be the right place for you. The liquor lawas seem to be more of a problem for the tourists than for the locals, since the real problem is just understanding them. Anybody that wants to drink in Utah drinks whatever they want to.
Even if you have no desire to live there, it is really worth a visit while on holiday. There are a large number of national parks and some really spectacular scenery.
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Re:What is Utah really like? (Score:5, Insightful)
At any rate, I wouldn't say Utah is "dragging down the nation" all that much, if at all. You can't really talk about Utah without talking about Mormons, but my experience is that, while they may be quirky and even a little annoying at times, they're nowhere near as vitriolic as Evangelicals in general and Baptists in particular.
Part of it has to do with history, I think: other than sending out missionaries on bicycles, Mormons have learned the hard way to keep to themselves. Baptists may be up in arms about a government conspiracy out to get them when they can't put the Ten Commandments in a courthouse, but I haven't seen the US Army shoot at them yet. They also haven't been forced to alter their religious teachings in order to be considered for statehood.
(I'm partly sympathetic, but I'm mostly just ashamed of my government w/r/t Mormons.)
Even on television they seem far more sedate in pushing their religion than your average group of Baptists. They don't start out with threats of damnation, they just want to start by mailing you a book.
Another poster mentioned Senator Hatch, but let's face it: it takes 51 senators to get a bad bill through, and Hatch is only one man. You can't blame all those bad votes on Utah or Mormons. However, Baptists have the entire Bible Belt to play with (with the help of some sympathetic Catholics in Louisiana).
At any rate, if you're looking for someone to blame, I'd look elsewhere for now. Another poster mentioned Washington, D. C.
Parent
You insensitive clod... (Score:5, Funny)
You insensitive clod...
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Re:What is Utah really like? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What is Utah really like? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:What is Utah really like? (Score:3, Funny)
Don't you know, most of us here surf the web by tapping the bared ends of a Cat-5 on the terminals of an AA battery?
Re:Um, no (Score:5, Interesting)
And yeah, I have yet to really meet annoying pushy LDS folks like I have evangelicals. Polite protest of disinterest have worked just fine.
There also turn out to be some surprising advantages to the oddities in legislation here. For example, the recent SCOTUS Eminent Domain ruling has no effect here as the state government recently passed legislation banning eminent domain for redevelopment purposes [sltrib.com] (except, in a twisted joke, for the redevelopers own property.)
I should mention, however, that my views are somewhat coloured by a fairly centrists view of American politics and religion, so the politics and religion here don't really bother me as much as they might some. (Honestly, for the moment I find them a somewhat refreshing change from my old heavily blue state.)
Parent
I do not see how this could possibly work (Score:3, Interesting)
It will be impossible to enforce.
Doesn't COPPA cover this? (Score:3, Insightful)
Utah, hmm? (Score:3, Funny)
2) ???
3) Jailarity!
Like this has a chance of working... (Score:3, Insightful)
1.) That the technology and authentication needed to enforce these new regulations simply aren't present.
2.) The legal definition of spam still lies in limbo, even with the CAN-SPAM act.
This along with sample cases can easily show the ineffectiveness of this law. Take for instance this case: I often find that due to lax IT standards and efforts at my university, my e-mail is sometimes used to transfer spam or malicious viruses through no fault of my own. Am I to blame if an 'illegal' email reaches one of these addresses in the registry? I would like to think not, but the law is vague enough to permit such reprecusions. Granted, the law is likely intended to target larger marketing firms and not the individual user, but the fact that the possibility exists is the point.
hello frend (Score:5, Funny)
My name is Prince omar en caver ensanado and i am in desperate need of help. My heard of unicorns are kiled by very bad men who have taken over my country of narnia. We need helps to buy food and supplies to keep alive the unicorns.
I know that you are a good child, and will be willing to help. I am also able to pay great money for the help. If you can email your momy or dadys bank account and social secutrity number, I put lots of money in the account. They be very happy and thank you for long time for making them so much money. In return we just need to spend some of it on food and some fun army stuff.
If you me help reply please. The poor little unicorns are dying. To deposit the money in you parents account and make them very happy, I need you to buy some stuff and leave in wardrobe at place I tell you later. you can buy with credit cards. We give you gillions of dollars as soon as we get the stuff.
Please help! You want to make parent happy and be good child, yes. you don't want to be bad child? Pleas reply and I tell you what you must buy. All this ok, i promise, cross my hert!
Child predators (Score:5, Insightful)
Reverse Effect (Score:3, Insightful)
The law will likely cut down on the mild content spam and only increase the awful content spam to children. If the "do not spam" list is made available to anyone, how long until lawless spammers add those names to their target lists?
Answer: not very long.
This law will likely serve to filter out the mild content spam and only increase the amount of nasty spam.
The law is a nice idea, but won't do a bit of good in the real world.
Bogus flux critical! (Score:3, Informative)
In order to avoid running afoul of these new laws, email marketers have two choices:
1. They can ensure that they never send any email containing unpermitted materials, links to unpermitted materials, or even links to sites which have information about the unpermitted materials; or
2. They can match their mailing lists against the email registries maintained by Michigan and Utah, on a monthly basis. There is a fee associated with this list matching. Email lists are provided to the state in an encrypted fashion, and the email address registry is also encrypted.
Now, I would not mind filtering any commercial email list I might maintain against their "do not email" list: What I definitely DO mind is being CHARGED for the privilege!! It makes zero sense to reward the businesses who use Unsolicited Commercial Email within all apllicable laws and regulations with FEES charged in order to ensure that they *continue* to operate within the regs. The sad part is, even if your list is double opt-in, if one of the member addresses on that list is also on Utah's or Michigan's "Do not" list, *you*, as the provider of email, are the one punished. The double-opted in subscriber in question, in all likelihood an enforcement official involved in entrapment, faces no penalty whatsoever.
I try, I really do try, to keep my language within bounds of decency, but sometimes one just simply must say !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pedophiles everywhere rejoice, plan trips to Utah (Score:4, Insightful)
This list is custom-made for abuse, especially when you consider that many people use the same nickname in multiple places -- email, instant messanger, blogs, etc.
Re:Slashdot's American Flag Icon (Score:4, Funny)
Nah, it's just a tribute to the wealth of accurate information available on Slashdot.
Parent
Re:Slashdot's American Flag Icon (Score:3, Insightful)
<ot>
Lots of people died for the Nazi flag, too, so should it be held in respect as well? I say we should stand up for values, not for countries and their symbols.
</ot>
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." --Oscar Wilde