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Got Spyware? Throw out the Computer!

Posted by Zonk on Sat Jul 16, 2005 01:39 PM
from the nonsensical dept.
Security The Almighty Buck Technology
geeber writes "The New York Times (reg. required) has an article about a new response to spyware - throw out the computer and buy a new one. The notion is new computers can be had for $400 so it's a cost effective and 'rational response.'" From the article: "While no figures are available on the ranks of those jettisoning their PC's, the scourge of unwanted software is widely felt. This month the Pew group published a study in which 43 percent of the 2,001 adult Internet users polled said they had been confronted with spyware or adware, collectively known as malware. Forty-eight percent said they had stopped visiting Web sites that might deposit unwanted programs on their PC's. Moreover, 68 percent said they had had computer trouble in the last year consistent with the problems caused by spyware or adware, though 60 percent of those were unsure of the problems' origins. Twenty percent of those who tried to fix the problem said it had not been solved; among those who spent money seeking a remedy, the average outlay was $129."
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  • Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:5, Informative)

    by RichardX (457979) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:41PM (#13082364) Homepage
    Surely you could at least just reformat the harddrive?
    Throwing out the whole PC seems a bit excessive..
    • No no, I'm okay with this.

      Just as long as they give me their "old" computer.

      :)

    • Sssshhhh! (Score:5, Funny)

      by jdavidb (449077) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:46PM (#13082419) Homepage Journal

      Don't tell anybody! I'm counting on this new idea to cause a glut in the market of used PC's. I can pick them up real cheap for extra Linux boxen.

    • It does sound excessive, but for people who can't fix it on their own it may make economic sense to. According to the summary "among those who spent money seeking a remedy, the average outlay was $129.". Frys was selling PC's without a monitor for $150 so for people who can't format the drive and reinstall themselves it is very nearly as cheap to buy a new PC as it is to pay someone else to fix it.
    • Sounds rational to me.

      1. You throw out a computer.
      2. I go trash diving.
      3. ???????
      4. You buy a computer from me that is identical to your old computer for half the price. A win-win situation.
      5. Oh, profit!!

    • Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Jasin Natael (14968) on Saturday July 16 2005, @03:04PM (#13082922)

      Most people can't do that on their own. I do this for my longtime customers as a service, and it usually costs about $125.00-$150.00 to rent me out for an afternoon and get a full reformat. Some local screwdriver shops do this for about $50.00, but you have to leave your PC with them, you're solely responsible for backing up what you want to keep, and most of your applications will be missing when you get it back.

      However, I think that this article is indicative of an awful amount of waste that goes on in this country. Computers are some of the most environmentally harmful products to produce and/or dispose of, and here we've got someone advocating throwing a computer away and buying a new one just because they don't like what's loaded into it? It's not just our corporations that think with their wallets and damn the whole world, there are plenty of consumers who think that way too!

      Jasin Natael

      • Re:What does that make the Windows TCO? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:54PM (#13082483)
        Average lifespan of a windows computer - 4 minutes
        Average lifespan of a BSD computer 10 years.

        So the choice is between a computer that turns into a zombie in 4 minutes, or a one that keeps on dying for 10 years is it? :-)

        • GEEK: Bring out your obsolete boxen!
          Bring out your obsolete boxen over here!
          [clang] Bring out your obsolete boxen over here!
          [clang] Bring out your obsolete boxen over here!
          [clang] Bring out your obsolete boxen over here!
          [clang] Bring out your obsolete boxen over here!

          NETCRAFT: Ah! Good, Good! Here's one for you -- and here's your one gig of porn.
          *BSD: I'm not obsolete!
          GEEK: What?
          NETCRAFT: 'S Nothing -- here's your one gig of porn now.
          *BSD: I'm not obsolete, I'm not!
          GEEK: Oy, what's this here? He says he's not obsolete!
          NETCRAFT: Oh, Yes, Yes, he is.
          *BSD: I'm not!
          GEEK: He isn't obsolete.
          NETCRAFT: Yes, Well, he will be soon, you see. He's dying.
          *BSD: No I'm not! I'm gaining market share!
          NETCRAFT: Oh no, you're not -- you'll be stone dead and useless in a moment.
          GEEK: Oh, I can't take him like that -- it's against regulations y'know.
          *BSD: I don't want to go in the dumpster! I don't want to go in the dumpster!
          NETCRAFT: Oh, don't be such a baby. It's just like being on Hibernate!
          GEEK: I can't take him like that.
          *BSD: I feel useful! I feel useful!
          NETCRAFT: Oh, do us a favor... c'mon.
          GEEK: I can't.
          NETCRAFT: Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long. Less market-share than Punch-cards and Paper-tape.
          GEEK: Naaah, I really got to go on to IBM's -- they've lost OS/2 this week.
          NETCRAFT: Well, when is your next round, then?
          GEEK: Oh, I won't be back around here till next Thursday.
          *BSD: I think I'll go do a compile, now!
          NETCRAFT: You're not fooling anyone y'know. Look, mate, isn't there something you can do here?
          *BSD: I feel useful... I feel useful. I'm just gonna do a little compile!
          [bzzzzzzzzzzzzttttttt]
          NETCRAFT: Ah, thanks very much.
          GEEK: Not at all. See you on Thursday.

      • Well, put yourself in Joe Blow's shoes.

        You put in the "Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack 2" CD from your Dell, reboot, and it shows this weird blue screen that takes forever. It then comes up with some weird confusing stuff. If you get past that, then there's even more confusing stuff - stuff about NTFS, FAT, and partitions.

        Get that somewhat right, and it finally gets easy.

        Look at the easier Linux distros - put the CD in, boot, and it goes into a graphical setup that you can pretty much click Next on. Linux has surpassed Windows in ease of installation...

  • Stupid recommendation (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jleq (766550) * <jleq@charte r . n et> on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:42PM (#13082375)
    Yeah... then your $400 new computer is going to get infected, are you going to throw it out and buy yet another? Average Joes don't want to run Linux, because their programs won't run on it (if they even know about Linux in the first place, chances are, they don't). Mac Minis don't count, because they're over $400. Hence, whoever wrote TFA could use an extra helping of logic.

    • Re:Stupid recommendation (Score:5, Funny)

      by Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:49PM (#13082443)
      Yeah... then your $400 new computer is going to get infected, are you going to throw it out and buy yet another?

      It does get your 20 minutes [theregister.co.uk] per PC though.

      My suggestion is: buy 24 $400 computers and switch every 20 minutes. That way, you can get a solid 8 hour day of work. When you're done, return them to the place you got them from and ask replacements, so you're good to go for another day :-)

  • I knew it (Score:4, Funny)

    by VikingDBA (446387) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:43PM (#13082383)
    I knew the hardware companies were installing windows for a reason, repeat sales.

  • And remember... (Score:5, Informative)

    by pwnage (856708) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:43PM (#13082384)
    ...that once you throw out that old PC, remember to replace it with a Macintosh. Problem solved.

  • Bill says "thanks" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mistersooreams (811324) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:44PM (#13082400) Homepage
    Of course, when you throw out the PC, you then have to purchase a new copy of the operating system. In 99% of cases this is Windows. So you reduce the incentive for Microsoft to fix the spyware problem; in fact, you reward them for not fixing it! Quite brilliant! In fairness to Microsoft, Windows now does have a pretty good resistance to spyware, IF you run as user. The problem is that most people don't know what this means, how to do it, or anything of the sort. Education is the only solution. Note that I declined to make a "??? PROFIT!" joke in this post.

    • Re:Bill says "thanks" (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kjella (173770) on Saturday July 16 2005, @02:01PM (#13082523) Homepage
      In fairness to Microsoft, Windows now does have a pretty good resistance to spyware, IF you run as user. The problem is that most people don't know what this means, how to do it, or anything of the sort.

      Those that know, don't need to, and those that do, shouldn't even if they wanted to. I run as admin all the time, because it is simply much much easier. Running as a normal user is annoying at best due to all the stupid Windows software. A typical example (Win2k):

      User:
      1. Log out, log in as admin
      2. Install as admin
      3. Log back in as user
      4. ???
      5. Manually create shortcuts, menu folders, menu items, quicklaunch item and such for user.

      Admin:
      1. Install as admin

      It's amazing how many programs that still haven't clued in that installing account is not always identical to user account. That is not counting every other stupid problem, like some programs requiring admin rights to run or other stupidity.

      Kjella

      • Re:Bill says "thanks" (Score:4, Informative)

        by Eric604 (798298) on Saturday July 16 2005, @02:37PM (#13082756)
        Most of time you can shift-click and select run-as on the installer. (also on 'windows update' and 'computer management'). If you need to do more complicated stuff you're ofcourse not a 'normal user' and should run as admin like you do.
    • No, the problem is that Windows is still so braindead that it defaults to administrator instead, and lots of Windows software is so braindead that it requires an administrator to install and run.

      If it were the user's problem, then Mac OS would suffer it also -- but it doesn't.
      • The big problem with that is that in order to break the vicious circle, somebody has to act - but nobody wants to go first.

        Microsoft doesn't want to default to unprivileged accounts when software is abundant that relies on administrator rights; software companies will continue to make use of administrator rights as long as they're available.

        The real problem here is that neither of them - nor Microsoft nor third-party software companies - actually feels the effects of the problems these invariably causes.
    • Before the subject gets taken out of context, let me explain. Reading the article, almost all the examples given are "my 4 year old Dell" or "my 4 year old HP." Four whole years ago, Windows ME was the most recent hunk of junk to come out of Redmond, so it wouldn't surprise me if all these repeat infections are occuring on Win9x systems. Also, machines of that era generally shipped with 64 or 128mb of RAM.

      As long as the computers are running Win9x, they will undoubtedly become reinfected, as Microsoft w

      • WRONG! (Score:3, Informative)

        by mrchaotica (681592)
        Thus, the only real way to ensure enough protection is to upgrade the operating system to the more secure XP.
        That's not the only way. Another (better!) solution would be to get a Mac instead.

        Granted, I expect you to ignore me since you profit from people not knowing about this option...

          • And re-learn everything. These people aren't even smart enough to install windows (which is bloody easy) and you want them to go back to zero knowledge in computers?

            Why not? If they're as dumb as you say, they're at zero knowledge now anyway.

            Nahh, they know about the option (there's this thing called TV, it has advertisements about Apple products, you should try it sometime).

            I haven't seen a TV advertisement for Apple computers in at least a few years. I wish they did advertise -- it would mean few

    • Don't forget that when you replace that PC, you're throwing money at more than Microsoft. You're throwing it at Intel, at Maxtor/Seagate/Hitachi/WD/etc, at Dell/Compaq/etc, at ATI/nVidia, etc. Think of all the jobs you're helping create. Think of the CHILDREN! (of those people filling those jobs.) Think of the boost to the economy. Don't think of it as wasteful, think of it as Patriotic!

      On a slightly (but only slightly) more serious note, I wonder how many hardware makers stop to think about how many PCs a

  • Perfect (Score:5, Insightful)

    by platypus (18156) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:44PM (#13082405) Homepage
    Lazy/stupid people driving the IT economy ...

  • People are morons (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Arthur B. (806360) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:45PM (#13082411)
    Still crawling to use a computer. Computers will soon look like fucking game consoles or TVs... people juste aren't into customization and advanced features. Sad but true. Technology has advanced to a point where average human intelligence begins to fail to keep up. -- moded -1 for despise ?
  • So, you can throw out a crappy PC and buy a new one for $400 every year, OR you can buy a MacMini for $500, and use it for at least three years.

    And frankly, if you're spending $400 on a PC, the GPU is not going to be able to run many cutting-edge games anyway. So it's hard to see what a MacMini couldn't do for the average home user that a $400 POS Wintel box could...

  • Of those that "didn't fix it" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kjella (173770) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:50PM (#13082455) Homepage
    ...how many continued their stupid practices, so they were instantly reinfected? I've seen people reinstall the exact same crapware after a clean-up, because that was stuff they "wanted". With that kind of model, your new machine will be infected instantly.

    Besides, hardware is only a tiny fraction of it. Transferring all data, installing all programs and configuring everything to the way you are used to, that is what takes time. Even with a pre-installed Windows, people want all their various gadgets (one driver CD each, which they can't find), e-mail, bookmarks etc.

    The only upside of that is that your old computer can serve as your back-up until you transfer it to the new one. Helluva expensive way to buy back-up on, though.

    Kjella

  • WTF (Score:3, Insightful)

    by hector_uk (882132) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:51PM (#13082463)
    throw out the pc and buy a mac maybe but throw out the pc and buy annother cheap POS pc thats just stupidity. if you go out and buy a car and acid rain eats all the paint off and your car falls apart do you go and buy the exact same one? hell no you go buy an acid rain proof car.

  • Works for me... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Craig Ringer (302899) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:52PM (#13082471) Homepage Journal
    Don't throw them out. Donate them to any of the number of PC refurbishment and training charities that you'll find. They can always use good gear.

  • The best solution is to... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by canuck57 (662392) on Saturday July 16 2005, @01:54PM (#13082484)

    ...has an article about a new response to spyware - throw out the computer and buy a new one.

    The best solution I have ever seen is a tech walks into your office with a CD, Ctrl-Alt-Delete - boot to CD-ROM, enters your user ID and walks away saying keep the CD for next time you infect your machine. It boots from the CD re-installing the entire system.

    Users hate it as they store stuff on the local drive but soon learn corporate no-tolerance policy for keeping critical data on the local drive and loading unapproved often unlicensed software. The raw fact still remains, 90% of the corporate spyware issues can be tracked back to the users (mis)behavior.

    Tossing out the computer prematurely has several disadvantages, the logistics of disposal, acquisition and software licensing. It is unlikely replacing the system with the same Windows operating system is going to change much. Mind you if the replacement was a locked down system where the user could not load software.... That would have some obvious benefits.

  • My mom did this! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jafac (1449) on Saturday July 16 2005, @02:02PM (#13082528) Homepage
    Yeah, when her winxp computer got sogged up with spyware, after weeks of attempts to clean it up, she got rid of it and bought another computer;

    A Mac.

  • This is great! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fsck! (98098) <jacob@elder.gmail@com> on Saturday July 16 2005, @02:02PM (#13082534) Homepage
    This means more people buying Mac Minis, and more free year-old computers for the Linux community to develop, test, and play on. Bring on the competition for the two best alternatives to Microsoft's hegemony.

  • The Argument is Sterile (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nukenerd (172703) on Saturday July 16 2005, @02:18PM (#13082644)
    People buy new PCs not necessarily because they have spyware or spam bots - many would not realise it. They just find their PC is slow so they think they need a new, faster one.

    Even if they knew they had spyware, they would not have a clue how to remove it anyway. They might "rationalise" a new PC with arguments about the cost of their time, but that is just a comfort factor thrown in. Maybe they fancied a new PC and this is an excuse to the wife.

    I once worked in a research lab. One day someone building electronics dropped a resistor on the floor. Four of us, professional engineers, then spent the next hour debating whether or not it was cost effective for one of us to spend 5 seconds picking it up. I argued that it would take just almost as long to reach for a new one from the rack. I don't remember if it was picked up in the end.

    Such debates are sterile - in the end you argue yourself into never doing anything.

  • This can get nasty... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by pe1chl (90186) on Saturday July 16 2005, @03:19PM (#13083010)
    throw out the computer and buy a new one.

    A Dutch public prosecutor did exactly this. He bought a new computer after his old one got infested with malware and viruses. He put the old one out on the street as garbage.

    That got very nasty. Ultimately it cost him his job, because confidential correspondence was leaked when someone picked it up and examined the disk.

    In the end he was lucky not to be prosecuted himself, for having child pornography on the system. However, that set some nice precedence: apparently it is no problem to have something on your system when it has gotten there "unintentionally".
      • Built a new windows box for my mom a couple weeks back (no linux griping, she needs applications that run under windows), and after everything was fully set-up and configured, I used a popular disk imaging program to create my own "emergency restore partition" on the drive.

        So if it really tanks after a year or two, it's just a matter of rebooting and pressing a few keys before windows begins to load in order to completely recover the system. Of course if the HD crashes, we're back to square-one, but other

      • Re:Tiger (Score:3, Informative)

        by jcr (53032)
        $129 is the upgrade price for Tiger

        Nope. There is no "upgrade" pricing for Tiger. Your $129 gets you the whole OS.

        Try installing it on a computer that didn't come with some version of MacOS to begin with.

        Umm... Every Macintosh comes with the current version of Mac OS as of the date of its manufacture. Are you trying to install it on some machine that didn't come from Apple?

        -jcr

    • Dear dumb**** (Score:4, Informative)

      by browncs (447083) on Saturday July 16 2005, @02:38PM (#13082761)
      1) Go to the HP site and download the freakin drivers.

      2) Go to Fry's or online and buy a freakin NAT router/firewall for like $20. This will block the worms until you can get the updates installed.
      • Parent is NOT flamebait.

        Anyone without a hardware firewall needs to get one ASAP, and anyone doing "virgin" installs without one is really a dumbass.

        These firewalls are literally $20, a year ago even the top-of-line ones with fancy stuff like stateful-packet-inspection were under $40.

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