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Google Patents RSS Advertising

Posted by CowboyNeal on Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:20 PM
from the thought-of-that dept.
IO ERROR writes "Google filed a patent application for targeted advertising in RSS feeds about a year and a half ago. The USPTO has now assigned it a number and placed it online. The patent application covers both targeting in RSS feeds and geotargeting by IP address. It gives some insight into how Google's ad servers work."
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  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:21PM (#13202704)
    Slashdot has RSS feeds for a number of years, and during that time they've run many Slashvertisements.
    • by gearmonger (672422) on Saturday July 30 2005, @02:54PM (#13203561)
      An important claim of Google's patent application is targeting -- directing only certain ads at certain types of customers. I don't think /. did that, did they?
      • Argh, it shouldn't matter. Using communication technology to transfer ads has existed since the Tuesday after written language was discovered. Using RSS for ads has been done (heck, Slashdot does it, if you believe some submissions are just ads in disguise). Targeting ads has also been done since advertising began. Taking two fucking obvious things and combining in them in a fucking obvious way is, well, fucking obvious, and shouldn't be patentable, no matter how much legalease you use to hide the fucking obvious fucking obviousness. Grrr - venting is fun.
  • by tobybuk (633332) on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:21PM (#13202705)
    ...Oh wait. Does not compute..... Brain is going to explode
  • ...But I like the way google advertises. Whether it be in Gmail, in search results, or on Froogle. RSS is just another medium to explore. If they continue to stay unobtrusive, I wish them the best of luck.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:33PM (#13202774)
      And if it were MS advertising in the same manner, you'd be screaming your brains out about evil, monopolizing corporations.

      Take off your tin-foil hat plz kthx.

      So much for Google's "do no evil" eh? I wonder how the rest of the Slashbot population will pick up on this.
    • I'm with you. Commercials are not a bad thing, and ads are not a bad thing. They are a basic necessity to cover costs of operating! I much prefer ads that have something to do with the content of the page I'm looking at (therefore am more likely to be interested in) than to just randomly semi-targetted ads.
      • Commercials (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Winkhorst (743546) on Saturday July 30 2005, @01:27PM (#13203040)
        The trouble with advertising is that it distorts the normal self-organizing tendency of people to value the best product and depreciate the worst. Do you honestly think the Bronze Age ended because the iron sword manufactures ran a worldwide advertising campaign boosting the advantages of iron?
    • by drakaan (688386) on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:46PM (#13202836) Homepage Journal
      Umm...this isn't about the way that Google advertises, this is about them patenting the process of serving up specific ads based on figuring out your location based on your IP address, etc.

      I'm all for Google making things easier and doing cool stuff, but I'm not with them on this.

      Of course, for those of us who have no desire to offer the same type of service for the next 20 years (or patents to cross-license, or deep pockets to pay licensing fees), it doesn't matter, I suppose.

      Yet another example of why software should be firmly in the realm of copyright protection. That way, you can't copy what they wrote (unless given permission), but you're still free to offer a service based in the same *idea*.

      Is Google finally turning evil?

      • by Martin Blank (154261) on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:52PM (#13202861) Journal
        No, no, no... You don't get it. See, if Amazon or Microsoft comes up with something like this, then they're evil for taking over basic mechanisms of the internet. If Google does something like this, it's an interesting "insight into how Google's ad servers work" and must be something that will be only good.

        Get with the times, man.
        • For a lot of personality types, it's all about who does it, not what's being done. You can predict many political and social groups' response to any situation by looking at the players instead of looking at the situation itself.

          Believe it or not, you can even find people who will only listen to music or read books by unpopular artists because they have an automatic bias toward the downtrodden, regardless of the artist's merits.

      • and is about as patentable as "pizza delivery technique using car and phone". But no matter since as a matter of course the USPTO will rubber stamp this as they do all applications for the right to steal the freedom of the human mind, errm I mean for "intellectual property" rights.

        After all, an economy encumbered by lawyers controlling our thoughts is what made capitalism and America great!!!
    • by onion2k (203094) on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:50PM (#13202850) Homepage
      I'm not sure this would work the same way though. There is some provision in the RSS standard for new things, but it's usually up to the reader software how to display it.

      Unless Google have been exceptionally clever and done something I can't even dream of, they must be either inserting adverts in a way that most readers will ignore, or else they're inserting adverts in the same format as news items.

      In which case, news and adverts will become "merged" with each other.

      That sounds pretty dodgy to me. I don't mind adverts I can easily ignore that are sectioned off from content, but if I have to skip adverts in the middle of my RSS news feeds I'll get annoyed. Equally, if I set my news feed to display 25 items, and I end up getting 22 items and 3 adverts, I'll be even more annoyed.

      Until now Google's advertising has been nice and discrete. This sounds a lot less discrete. It sounds like a step in the wrong direction.

      Caveat: I reserve final judgement until I see how a Google ad-enabled feed looks in my reader.

    • It seems like this patent is Google's entree into the slimy practice of patenting anything it can get its hands on. Google will be able to share its presence with other notable offenders, like Amazon, Microsoft, and several other firms. Because this is a principle in which I believe strongly, Google's method of advertising, though arguably one of the better ones in practice, will take a back seat to other, more salient issues - like their willingness to patent methods that have prior art, and that aren't re
  • by The I Shing (700142) * on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:23PM (#13202713) Journal
    I bet that the number of examiners at the USPTO that have a comprehensive understanding of the way RSS works is exactly zero. I'm can only imagine an examiner breathlessly intoning, "I don't know what the hell this patent is talking about, so it must be totally new, non-obvious, and useful, so here," (THUMP as the rubber stamp comes down) "patent granted."

    Of course, it could be a defensive patent. Heaven knows who out there thinks he's patented the whole RSS idea.

    Still, regarding this new patent, I'm looking forward to the usual Slashdot pick-apart, where every claim is shown to be something people have been doing for a decade, and enough prior art is unearthed in fifteen minutes to invalidate the patent ten times over.

    Heck, why doesn't the USPTO lay off half its examiners and just post patent applications to Slashdot?
    • by DrEldarion (114072) on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:35PM (#13202783) Homepage
      I'm looking forward to the usual Slashdot pick-apart

      No, this is Google, we like them. We'll call this innovative.
      • How about you back up your claim that the USPTO has simply rubber-stamped this patent because they're clueless? THATs one of the easiest Slashdot karma whore posts to make...

        Shouldn't be too hard to do. There was a story on /. just today about how the USPTO keeps recruiting to try and deal with excessive workload, but can't keep the staff once it hires them.

        If the workload is that high, it's hard to imagine them giving each application the attention it deserves.

        So, not "clueless" precisely, but you

  • Amazon (Score:5, Funny)

    by VeganBob (888165) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [niwdlabmtrebor]> on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:24PM (#13202723) Homepage
    Take THAT Amazon.

    Booyah
  • by Doc Ruby (173196) on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:26PM (#13202732) Homepage Journal
    This is bullshit. What is "advertising"? Isn't Slashdot's RSS feed advertising the stories linked to it? Hell, I've got prior art of actual clickable "banners" in RSS feeds I syndicate, that link to people paying me to insert their commercial messages.

    The PTO has become the "Monopoly Department" of the US Government. All day long they process applications for monopolies on businesses, responding "You go, girl!" to every one they possibly can. Now Google starts locking in all that "goodwill" they generated with inane faith-based nonsense like "do no evil". How long until they just patent "doing evil", on the premise that if they control it, they'll stop everyone else from doing it?
    • How long until they just patent "doing evil"

      Microsoft will sue. They have both an interest and prior art.
    • You know, every time one of these patent debates comes up, the same thing happens: People like you completely misunderstand the meaning of the patent, assume that the patent covers something absurdly broad, then complain about that.

      Read the patent. The patent doesn't cover advertising in RSS. The patent covers a specific method for producing RSS ads.

      The patent on MP3 compression did not cover compression of digital audio in general. It covered the techniques used in MP3 specifically.

      The patent on RSA en
  • Can one really patent a medium? I'm not convinced that such a patent would stand up to what I'm sure would be numerous legal challenges. It is not as direct as attempting to patent advertising in other mediums (pick your poison), but it seems to be skirting the edge.
  • What's the difference? Are not slashvertisements much older?
  • The patent covers targeted advertising, not advertising in RSS,Targeted meaning IP address location. However, targeted advertising could cover any search engine that displays sponsored results next to search results by keywords. However, this patent only covers RSS, so it may not prove to be too useful.
    • IANAL, but from the patent application linked, it seems Google's covered just about every form of advertisement possible through XML, RSS, and Atom syndication delivery standards. The patent says the ads are automatically generated and incorporated into the feed based on the content of the feed, but the alternative is to hand-pick them somehow.
    • From TFP (the friendly patent) [uspto.gov]

      Incorporating targeted ads into information in a syndicated, e.g., RSS, presentation format in an automated manner is described. Syndicated material e.g., corresponding to a news feed, search results or web logs, are combined with the output of an automated ad server.

      SO, RSS is just one of the mediums described. And it actually does appear to be a pretty specific method.
  • The patent system will collapse in a few years since patents are now being handed out to just about anyone willing to file for one. There is no more requirement for the patent to be non-obvious. The problem seems to be the examiners don't understand the fields for the patent applications they are responsible for. As an example, tying certain kinds of knots would be non-obvious to someone who doesn't use rope a lot, but that doesn't mean I should be able to patent the Monkey's Fist [wikipedia.org].

    The end result of this is that, eventually, all patents will become meaningless. There will be large-scale infringement because so many patents will cover things that are so obvious that everyone will need to or want to do them. How many years from now will we enter this new era of ignoring the broken system? Frivolous patents are hastening the end of all patents.

  • Microsoft just announced that they've changed their minds and won't be including RSS in IE7

  • Not Shocking. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by defile39 (592628) on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:40PM (#13202812)
    The USPTO does not have the ability to determine the official "patentability" of any non-simple invention (and even simple ones). Patent officers are overworked and undertrained. The theory is that the validity of patents will be hashed out in the courts. Wasted resources? Of course. Stifled innovation? Obviously. How many letters have any of you written to your representatives recently?
    • USPTO Mission (Score:5, Informative)

      by dereference (875531) on Saturday July 30 2005, @01:16PM (#13202970)
      The theory is that the validity of patents will be hashed out in the courts.

      I have no mod points to give, but this point needs to be emphasized. This is the fundamental principle under which the USPTO has operated since its inception. You may not like it, but that's their charter. They are obligated by law to grant any patent that they believe in good faith has the potential to be enforcable and upheld by the courts. There is no "burden of proof" criteria involved; the USPTO must defer that decision to the courts.

      Ever time something about USPTO comes up here, everybody gets tons of mod points here for blasting these "idiots" and "dolts" for not doing their jobs. I have no vested interest, but for crying out loud, at least these folks are indeed doing their jobs!

      No matter what we may think of the concept, this is the way the USPTO works by law. If you don't like it, don't complain about the examiners, complain about the law that chartered them, and complain to somebody that can do something about it.

      How many letters have any of you written to your representatives recently?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:49PM (#13202848)
    Now this is the type of patent I'd like to see more of!

    If only I had patented the blink tag and pop-ups. Either I might have prevented those nightmares; or I could have extracted royalties for infringment. Win-win!
  • by maelstrom (638) on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:50PM (#13202851) Homepage Journal
    I'd be just as angry if Microsoft did this. In fact, I'm probably more angry because I hold you to a higher standard. Even if this is a defensive patent, I want to hear you speaking out against the system, donating to the EFF or something. How about instead of "Do No Evil", you start doing good?

  • Hmmm (Score:2, Insightful)

    "Do no evil" eh? Wankers.
  • Contrasting... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by AutopsyReport (856852) on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:53PM (#13202866)
    Contrasting this patent with the likes of Amazon's common sense-patents which were approved (Web Services Patent [uspto.gov], Reminding Customers [uspto.gov], and User Viewing Histories [uspto.gov]), I'll acknowledge Google's patent has some credibility. Even though I've always been against patents related to or involving software, this is a much better patent than we've seen in the news recently, and considerably more deserving of approval.
    • ...and considerably more deserving of approval.

      Which still leaves considerable scope for it to be vile, unfair, anti-competetive and counter-productive.

      Software patents are a bad thing. Even the slightly-less-bad-than-the-others ones.

  • by MyLongNickName (822545) on Saturday July 30 2005, @01:01PM (#13202894) Journal
    For our next worship service, I'd like to break out an old favorite of mine. Please turn to page 17 in your hymnals.

    Shameless, shameless we adore thee
    God of the web, lord of search
    Personal Info we all give thee
    Leaving our data in the lurch
    We don't care, we just hate Bill Gates
    We know you don't do evil
    Will you change? We don't think about it
    We just want e-mail retrieval

    All thy web projects surround me
    Your share valuation reflect thy rays
    Sheep and fanbois all surround thee
    Center of all endless praise
    Blog and mail, you never fail
    Inventing stuff we've seen before
    But like sheep we will still praise thee
    And keep clamoring for more

    Googleujah, Googleujah, Googleujah, rejoice

    All must join the mighty chorus
    Which us l33t stars began
    Google's love is reignning o'er us
    Our fawning love is part o'the plan
    Always singing, never thinking
    What they'll do when THEY are king
    We just enjoy your hyperlinking
    And wondering what new toy you will bring
    Our privacy is shrinking
    Personal privacy - wishful thinking

    "Pastor Google" serving free thinkers since never.

  • by voidstin (51561) on Saturday July 30 2005, @01:11PM (#13202943)
    If Google is working on a new way of doing RSS advertising, wouldn't it be fiscally irresponsible to NOT try to patent it? What if they unveil a masterful system they've been working on for a year, only to find out Yahoo patented one of the methods 3 months ago, and were forced to shelve it as the legal battle ensued?

    Advertising is most (if not all) of their revenue. They'd be silly not to try to protect it. How would you feel if your google stock dropped 20% because they were trying to be nice and got screwed by a competitor?

    Guns are bad, but you still shouldn't bring a knife to a gun fight.
      • Giving it 5 seconds of thought, they could modify their development cycle so that they release technical ideas as they come up, providing the world with prior art and short-circuiting other peoples' ability to patent those concepts.

        That doesn't work either - then you're advertising to your competitors what you're going to be launching in a year.

        What would work is getting a patent accepted, launching your product, then making the patent public domain (as in, no-one ever has to pay a license for it, how

  • While it appears (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gexen (123248) on Saturday July 30 2005, @04:31PM (#13204077)
    While it appears inevitable that people are going to flame Google for doing this, if I were running a business I would do the exact same thing.

    The current state of technology patents is dreadful. To us technology people, many of the patents just appear to be common sense? Patents are being granted left and right for things that just seem normal and easy to us. Unfortunately, that is the way things are...for now. If you are operating a business, it is in your best interest to try and patent everything you do. If you don't, someone else will and then sue you for infringing on their patents. Trust me, the cost of trying to file patents is nothing compared to the cost of being sued for patent infringement.

    So don't blame Google or Microsoft or Amazon. For lack of a better euphemism, don't hate the player, hate the game.
  • by defile (1059) on Saturday July 30 2005, @04:40PM (#13204117) Homepage Journal

    If Microsoft did this the article summary would be critical, instead of a subtle compliment.

    You're all whores.

    • by NickFortune (613926) on Saturday July 30 2005, @12:29PM (#13202751) Homepage
      Software patents remain evil, even if it's Google that holds them.

      Google on the whole seem to remain a force for good. The cynic in me does wonder how long that can last after going public, but on balance I'm a long way from consigning Google to the Bad Guy List

      However, software patents remain evil, even if it's Google that holds them. I just thought that bore repeating.

      • Hmm . . . what about those inventions that take longer than 5 years to bring from patent to market?

        OK, backpedal to this: Patents on an invention that is implementable on a general purpose computer in the prior art, using input and output devices in the prior art, connected to a network in the prior art, should last only five years after grant.

        • The problem isn't the employees so much as the system in general. The USPTO makes money in fees for every patent they grant. More patents = more money. Since the courts ruled in the early 80's that anything created, discovered, or though up could be patented the responsibility for actually determining how valid a claim is got shifted from the USPTO to the courts. The standard to get a patent today is a lot lower than it was 25 years ago and a lot less stuff is considered out of bounds.

          The end result is