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Adult Site Sues Google, Google Compared To MS Again

Posted by Zonk on Fri Aug 26, 2005 07:41 AM
from the when-you're-on-top-you-make-a-nice-target dept.
daria42 writes "It looks like Adult magazine publisher Perfect 10 is suing Google to stop the search engine giant from using images of models in the images part of its search engine. The publisher has alleged Google is in breach of its copyright by displaying more than 3,000 photos." From the article: "Perfect 10 first became aware of Google serving up text links to other Web sites that allegedly carried copyright images of Perfect 10 models back in 2001, Zada said in an interview on Thursday. The company then sent notices to Google, under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, asking the search giant to discontinue linking to the other sites." Additionally, with users writing to mention that that Google has changed their 10 Things statement recently, yet another article comparing them to Microsoft was bound to turn up. From the Sydney Herald article: "The question is whether the young upstarts who have built a hugely profitable business on Google's anti-corporate image are on the way to following Gates's path from bright young turk to monopolistic behemoth." Update: 08/26 13:27 GMT by Z : xmas2003 points out that the requested injunction is part of the suit Perfect 10 brought against Google last November, which we have previously reported on.
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  • Publicity (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dsginter (104154) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:43AM (#13406448)
    This looks like a publicity stunt if I ever saw one. No, I won't provide a link, thankyouverymuch.
    • Re:Publicity (Score:5, Insightful)

      by KDan (90353) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:58AM (#13406569) Homepage
      Is anyone else getting the feeling that this whole "Google is actually evil like Microsoft" theme could easily be the beginnings of a FUD campaign organised by - who else - Microsoft?

      So far Google hasn't don't anything worthy of being called "evil". Seems like some people are just digging for anything at all that can be said against them.

      Daniel
      • Re:Publicity (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Alex P Keaton in da (882660) on Friday August 26 2005, @08:03AM (#13406617) Homepage
        It would be interesting to see the breakdown on people who are starting to dislike google. What percent are genuinely upset about their business practices, and what percent are upset that they are doing well (sort of like when a new band gets big, and the "original" fans say they have "sold out") No man! I heard of them first! Let me show you this receipt for a band t-shirt dated THREE days before the new song charted, dude!
        There is a group of people who will never like any company or group that is succesful. And there will always be people who attack the leaders just because they are leading, whether it is the NY Yankees (I try not to be one of them, but alas, I live in Ohio and I am a Cleveland fan) or google.
        • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 26 2005, @08:47AM (#13407002)
          You are indeed correct, sir.
          Large is Evil.
          Any organization bigger than a jazz combo is, by its inherent nature, Satanic
        • Re:Publicity (Score:5, Informative)

          by mav[LAG] (31387) on Friday August 26 2005, @02:09PM (#13410117)
          You just need to look at a list of people quoted in the previous "Google is Evil" story [slashdot.org].

          • Max Levchin, a founder of PayPal who stands to lose quite a bit if Google Wallet takes off
          • Steven Lurie, an ex-Microsoft employee
          • Joe Kraus, who founded Excite
          • Reid Hoffman, founder of LinkedIn
          • Craig Donato, the founder and chief executive of Oodle, a site for searching online classified listings more quickly (nice original name there Craig)
          • Brian Lent, the president of Medio Systems, a start-up in Seattle working on mobile-phone-based search.


          I mean, could the journalist have chosen a more biased sample?
      • Re:Publicity (Score:5, Insightful)

        by russotto (537200) on Friday August 26 2005, @08:04AM (#13406622) Journal
        Yeah, it's pretty rich for someone using the DMCA to accuse the receipient of such notices of being evil.
      • Re:Publicity (Score:5, Insightful)

        by pootypeople (212497) on Friday August 26 2005, @08:05AM (#13406639)
        I'm completely with you. I went to the fuckedgoogle site that /. posted yesterday, and the guy who's writing that is just a crackpot. In one post he accused google of manipulating their stock price while SIMULTANEOUSLY saying they were going to have the biggest point loss in the history of the company. I'm sorry, but I fail to see why they'd manipulate their own stock price down.
        And the privacy concerns? So they keep a record of searches. I don't care. They do so many that it's impossible for anyone to come up with useful data from google. All you'll be able to tell is that lots of people search for porn.
        Microsoft earned its title of "most evil" because they single-mindedly destroy all of their competition through FUD and other BS. Google hasn't really gotten rid of any of their competition (Yahoo and MSN are still there--I can't really think of a "large" web portal that's not there anymore) and that doesn't seem to be their goal. Just to do what they do best. I certainly have heard more reporting of this than I've heard anyone I know complain about google. Usually when the media outlets are pushing something, it's a good idea to take it with a grain of salt.

        offtopic- Kos at dailykos said yesterday that he thinks dailykos could become larger than slashdot, hits per day wise, before the end of the year--people called pullshit, but I'm really kind of interested now.
      • by pieterh (196118) <pieter...hintjens@@@imatix...com> on Friday August 26 2005, @08:30AM (#13406860) Homepage
        So Microsoft's latest strategy for smearing its competitors is to launch a FUD campaign in which... wait for it... their competitors get called "as evil as Microsoft?"

        Hmmm. Something not quite right here. What could the MS spindroids be thinking?

        "Hey, I just had an excellent idea for a fudwave..."
        "Yeah?" (puts down bimbo and cigar for a second)
        "Look.. we're evil, right?"
        "Damn right! I mean, unfortunately, yes...?"
        "I mean, we tried to fix that - the Foundation, pocket money for Africa, Bill even visited some schools..."
        "People always want a villain, I guess that's us..."
        "So, since Google refuse to compete fairly with us, here's the plan... We're going to redefine the meaning of 'evil'..."
        "uh?"
        "Lots of PR about 'Google is evil too, just like MS'"
        "Solid! And then, 'IBM is evil'"
        "Yup. Then, 'Linux is evil' and so on. Eventually people gonna start associating 'evil' with 'cool', and then we'll be there"
        "Sigh. Been a long time since we were cool."
        "OK, call in some favours. I think Perfect-10 still owe us for that time with the Senator."
        "Trollboys online?"
        "Yup. Ready to go!" ...

        It might just work.
      • Re:Publicity (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Displaced Cajun (20400) on Friday August 26 2005, @09:24AM (#13407385)
        And here, I present your evidence, straight from Bill Gates himself: Relax, Bill Gates; it's Google's turn as villain [com.com]

        Quoted from the article: Bill Gates certainly sees similarities between Google and his own company. This spring, in an interview with Fortune, Gates, Microsoft's chairman, said that Google was "more like us than anyone else we have ever competed with."

      • Re:Publicity (Score:4, Informative)

        by French Mailman (773320) on Friday August 26 2005, @09:29AM (#13407421)
        The several "Google is becoming evil like Microsoft" articles that have popped up in the recent days contain a lot of the exact same ideas:

        - Google is also attracting unfamiliar epithets such as "arrogant"
        - Its sheer financial power has sent salaries in Silicon Valley rocketing
        - Dotcom start-ups are also finding it difficult to persuade potential financial backers that their prospective markets will not be squashed by the might of Google

        This looks a lot like the works of a PR company working for one of Google's competitors (Probably Microsoft, perhaps Yahoo). The articles show a lot of the patterns described by Paul Graham in his "Submarine" essay [paulgraham.com] (April 2005).

        If the media did some actual research, instead of just printing whatever content the PR firms feed them, we'd have some more interesting content in the news.
    • by crovira (10242) on Friday August 26 2005, @08:49AM (#13407014) Homepage
      Show me a porn site that doesn't want people's browsers sent its way. Half of spam sent is trying to achieve that effect (okay and infect you with spayware and other creepy crawlies.)

      They must be be getting their money some other way than by earning it.

      So who are the players here? What links are there to some competition. (And there must already be a way to tell search 'bots' to ignore subdirectories so this suit is nothing but a legal annoyance, not a valid suit.)
    • Image theft (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Alien54 (180860) on Friday August 26 2005, @09:30AM (#13407432) Journal
      Sound like their website is not configured to keep people from stealing their images.

      So why aren't they suing the image thieves?

      that's right, google's got deep pockets.

  • by nvlass (705494) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:45AM (#13406461)
    to just remove themselves?? They could just read http://www.google.com/remove.html [google.com] or google for "remove website from google"... But then again, lawyers have got to make a living...
  • No privacy (Score:3, Informative)

    by kevin_conaway (585204) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:46AM (#13406472) Homepage
    If they're putting these images out on a public website, how can they be upset when people view the images? It doesn't matter if they're found in a search engine or if someone browses to the site, they're out in the open.

    Smells like someone is up to some clever [wikipedia.org] marketing.
    • Isn't the problem that other websites are displaying the content in violation of the original website's copyright? Google's automatic crawling is indexing these "stolen" images and redisplaying them in its search results. So when someone clicks on one of those links, they go to the violating website instead of the original website.

      I'm not sure that Google ought to be held liable for this. They only provide an indexing service which is just happening to find copyright violations. There is a case to be ma
    • If they're putting these images out on a public website, how can they be upset when people view the images? It doesn't matter if they're found in a search engine or if someone browses to the site, they're out in the open.

      Displaying something publically doesn't waive copyright. It doesn't work that way.

  • Perfect Dupe (Score:5, Informative)

    by xmas2003 (739875) * on Friday August 26 2005, @07:47AM (#13406479) Homepage
    as can be seen here ... [slashdot.org]

    Concrete Cam [komar.org] is up and running ... ;-)


  • Perhaps google should completely remove all references to the site from its search engine database, and ensure that it never gets listed again?
  • by metalmaniac1759 (600176) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:49AM (#13406494) Homepage Journal
    It seems they're in a habit of getting free publicity. From TFA:

    Perfect 10's lawsuit against Google is similar to one it filed against Amazon.com in July. In that suit, Perfect 10 makes similar allegations against Amazon's A9 search engine.

    If they're so damn pissed with their images turning up on search engines, why don't they just pull them off 'public' access. I mean put them under an area accessible only after someone logs in.

    Heck, there's robots.txt...

    Nandz.
    • by Spad (470073) <slashdot@s p a d . co.uk> on Friday August 26 2005, @07:59AM (#13406587) Homepage
      It's more stupid than that.

      They're suing Google for indexing images off *other* sites that are hosting their copyrighted images without permission. They basically want Google (and A9) to police their copyright for them.
      • by budgenator (254554) on Friday August 26 2005, @10:23AM (#13407966) Journal
        • perfect10 to Google, scammingpirates is infringing our copyrights, please de-list.
        • Google to scammingpirates, perfect10 claims copyright infringement and wants you de-listed
        • scammingpirates to Google, no way we bought exclusive rights to those images from mega-pron-wholesalers, de-list them
        • Google to perfect10, scammingpirates claims copyright infringement and wants you de-listed
        • perfect10 to to Google, no way we bought exclusive rights to those images from mega-pron-wholesalers, de-list them


        • The only way around this would be for Google to
          1. develope a sophisticated image recognition software, one that wouldn't be fooled by scaling, brightness and contrast changes, color shifts or cropping.
          2. Scan the index for matches
          3. de-list everbody who has images that match untill all parties agree.
          4. posibly cross-reference with the copyright dept, and a photographer's guild.
          5. liciense the technology to the USG to spot terrorists in video survalance images
          6. profit

          Another interesting idea would be to use such software to compare the images on the web, with images that a company sent in and wanted protected for a fee, when matches were found, the protection purchaser could be sent a notice.

          This software would be very difficult and bleeding edge to produce, a worthy challenge for a company like Google
  • by LocalH (28506) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:54AM (#13406538) Homepage
    You really didn't read the article, did you? And this makes it much worse than just Perfect 10 not being indexed:

    "Perfect 10 first became aware of Google serving up
    text links to other Web sites that allegedly carried copyright images of Perfect 10 models back in 2001, Zada said in an interview on Thursday. The company then sent notices to Google, under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, asking the search giant to discontinue linking to the other sites.


    In other words, they are suing Google for not policing Perfect 10's copyright. Not for indexing Perfect 10's sites, but rather for indexing other sites who happen to have stolen Perfect 10's images. And they're not suing the other sites - they're suing Google. This would be like if the *AA immediately started suing all ISPs as if they were knowingly involved in large-scale copyright infringement.

    This is scary, and I hope Perfect 10 falls flat on their ass. It's not Google's job to police everyone else's copyright and make sure that they don't index images in such a manner.
  • pr0n.google.com (Score:3, Insightful)

    by c0l0 (826165) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:56AM (#13406548) Homepage
    It really is about time now. Why not just create a free (as in beer) pr0n-service while holding up "Don't be evil" moral standars, and watch the competition be washed away?
     
    ;-)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 26 2005, @07:59AM (#13406584)
    ... a bitchy supermodel is to an organized crime ring

    ... an annoying starlet is to a child pornographer

    ... an overpriced piano is to the RIAA



    IN other words, what the fuck is the comparison? Wake me up when I'm NOT ALLOWED to switch away from their products and they've managed to muzzle the regulators despite clearly illegal monopolistic behavior!

    Doesn't anybody get it? MS doesn't have to do anything for their customers and they automatically get billions every month. Google has to satisfy customers to get revenue. Does Google try to go over your head if you don't want to use their products?

  • by Vo0k (760020) on Friday August 26 2005, @08:02AM (#13406611) Journal
    They complain not that Google indexes and displays their site. They complain that people copy pics off their site, then display them on their own sites, and google indexes these sites.
    IMHO bullshit. Google is not a police to check whether images they index infringe on someone's copyright. All they host are thumbnails which can be easily proven to be "fair use" for informative purposes. Then they LINK to pages that infringe on the site's copyright - and from then on, admins should send out C&D, sue and do all kinds of nasty things to admins of these sites. Once they remove the infringing content, Google will make its own indexes expire automatically, with next update. Of course assholes think it's easier to make Google remove the links, removing all traffic to the competing sites at once, instead of hunting each of them separately, but it seems all they can get is waste a lot on lawyers and have the case thrown out of court.
    If I make a photo of a pile of CDs, with purpose to put it in a newspaper, I don't copy them, and in no way I'm responsible about finding out whether they are pirated or original. Same with thumbnails of images found on various sites. Google states the fact: "This site has these images". Determining legal status of that site having these images is completely offtopic.
  • by llamalicious (448215) on Friday August 26 2005, @08:04AM (#13406621) Journal
    Archive.org's cache of Google's Ten-Things list:
    http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.google.com /corporate/tenthings.html [archive.org]
  • by Steev (5372) <<moc.nnidevets> <ta> <evets>> on Friday August 26 2005, @08:07AM (#13406651) Homepage
    Google is helping them by allowing them to easily find sites that have said copyrighted images on them.
    How would the magazine know about these infringements if it weren't for google?
  • by HuguesT (84078) on Friday August 26 2005, @08:09AM (#13406669)
    What is happening is that some random people took some "Perfect 10" images, either from P10's publicly available previews, or by any other means. Then these same random people have put up their own web site with these selfsame images, without permission from P10.

    Finally these sites were harvested by Google and indexed.

    So who is committing copyright infrigement again?

    If anything Google should be thanked for providing a link to the people's website who took the images without permission, allowing them to be perhaps identified. P10 should be suing *them*.

    But no, it's too much work and they probably are just a bunch of amateur with little to no money, so P10 is choosing to sue Google instead. Guess why.

    How this has anything to to with Google's alleged "arrogance" we'll never know.

    "Arrogant" is another term for successful people who are onto a good thing and they know it. Many can't take somebody else's success. So Apple, Microsoft and now Google are "arrogant".

    Personnally I'm delighted that Google is doing so well. So far everybody benefits, including mere users. At least we have Microsoft running scared a little. In the past this meant they react intelligently and fast (like in the case of the web browser for win95) but these days they take the PR approach a bit more.

    We'll see what happens.
     
  • Google (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mr_Silver (213637) on Friday August 26 2005, @08:12AM (#13406708)
    Whilst everyone else bar a select few are completely misunderstanding the reasoning behind Perfect 10 sueing Google (hint: robots.txt wouldn't solve it and yes, it's still dumb) I notice with interest that although Google has updated their page, they have the decency to point out that they have:

    * Full-disclosure update: When we first wrote these "10 things" four years ago, we included the phrase "Google does not do horoscopes, financial advice or chat." Over time we've expanded our view of the range of services we can offer -- web search, for instance, isn't the only way for people to access or use information -- and products that then seemed unlikely are now key aspects of our portfolio. This doesn't mean we've changed our core mission; just that the farther we travel toward achieving it, the more those blurry objects on the horizon come into sharper focus (to be replaced, of course, by more blurry objects).

    Far better than just changing it on the sly and hoping no-one will notice.

  • by twocents (310492) on Friday August 26 2005, @08:38AM (#13406922)
    Feel free to compares Google and M$ when Google requires all PC OEMs to include a browser that will only display their Web site and Google penalizes these companies if they attempt to provide a browser that will display non-Google pages. Oh, and when Google builds and operating system and only provides their services/apps to that OS. Oh yeah, and when they use their marketshare to rebrand technologies that will only work with their upcoming OS.

    Let's make an effort here to make the point that there might be some similar aspects to Google and Microsoft, but this bland statement of comparision is silly.

  • by joshsnow (551754) on Friday August 26 2005, @10:00AM (#13407755) Journal
    If this "Perfect 10" found a publisher illegally using their images was advertising in a local newspaper, they'd sue the newspaper rather than the publisher, right?

    • Re:robots.txt (Score:4, Informative)

      by DoorFrame (22108) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:47AM (#13406477) Homepage
      Because the images in question aren't on Perfect 10's website, but are on other websites that have stolen their content and are redisplaying it without permission. The robots.txt file doesn't allow you to force google to not index other people's websites... only the almight lawsuit can do that.
      • Re:robots.txt (Score:5, Insightful)

        by NastyNate (398542) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:52AM (#13406514)
        Then the suit should be filed against the websites illegally serving their copyrighted images, not Google.
        • Re:robots.txt (Score:5, Insightful)

          by varmittang (849469) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:57AM (#13406564) Homepage
          Yeah, and I'm sure google can help Perfect 10 find them and help put the people away since they have the pictures cached with the URL. Case closed, but no, go after the one that has more money is always the way people go these days. Not after the real criminals.
        • Re:robots.txt (Score:4, Interesting)

          by budgenator (254554) on Friday August 26 2005, @08:52AM (#13407046) Journal
          I've poked around the perfect10 site a bit and their FAQ [perfect10.com]
          states
          Q: Do you purchase film from photographers?

              A: Yes, we will need to see a sample of it. We only buy great film of natural models, usually 25 or younger. E-mail a sample to modelsubmissions@perfect10.com, or send a small sample to: Box 3398, Beverly Hills, CA 90212. If you are a photographer who wants to shoot for us, your best chance is if you refer a model to us. Send samples of your work or photos of the model to: Box 3398, Beverly Hills, CA 90212, or email it to the above address.

          so for one I doubt they have exclusive rights to all their "Thousands of images", in fact there are quite a few wholesalers that will sell you rights to tons of porn on a non-exclusive basis for the budding pornographer, I'm sure more than a couple of these photo's ended up in their archives, or possibly perfect10 has a subsidiary that wholesales to other sites. Another problem is for example I take a few pictures, while burning through a roll I get a couple that are almost identicle, who's to say I can't sell rights for one to one company, and rights to another. perfect10 definetely has an uphill battle, even proving infringement even took place.
      • Re:robots.txt (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ciroknight (601098) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:59AM (#13406577)
        Then.. uh... shouldn't Perfect 10 be going after the real offenders, and not the index server which simply aggrigates all of the images that fit the searched terms?

        To me, it looks like everyone and their mother is trying to cash in on Google. They're such a huge target that they're easy to attack with lawsuits. This actually does make them like Microsoft, but unlike Microsoft, Google doesn't have a legal department the size of Kentucky to back it up... give it time though.

        Who knows, I might sue Google for aggrigating my slashdot comments! That's about as frivilous as this lawsuit is.
    • Re:robots.txt (Score:5, Insightful)

      by pootypeople (212497) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:49AM (#13406493)
      Strangely enough, these people are suing google for the actions of others. They are suing google because google's webcrawler doesn't automatically block sites containing their copyrighted works. They're basically saying it's Google's job to police the entire web to enforce their copyrights. They have no case, because they would have to prove under the DMCA that Google was built to facilitate the copying of copyrighted works. Not only that, but it'd be difficult to say that they are circumventing a copyright protection scheme because the pictures are not protected by anything more elaborate than password protection on the website. They'll lose and they're dumb for wasting the time filing the suit. This is a real good example of a frivolous lawsuit.
      James
      • Re:robots.txt (Score:5, Insightful)

        by bedroll (806612) on Friday August 26 2005, @08:20AM (#13406769) Journal
        Strangely enough, these people are suing google for the actions of others. They are suing google because google's webcrawler doesn't automatically block sites containing their copyrighted works. They're basically saying it's Google's job to police the entire web to enforce their copyrights.

        Replace Google with Napster and Perfect 10 with the RIAA. Is this really such an open and shut case in favor of Google?

    • Re:robots.txt (Score:5, Interesting)

      by n0-0p (325773) on Friday August 26 2005, @07:55AM (#13406545)
      The images aren't from Perfect 10 directly. They wants Google to stop linking to other sites that have (potentially illegal) copies of their copyrighted images. So to put it in really simple terms, Perfect 10 wants Google to enforce their copyrights for them. Seems to me that the burden of copyright enforcement is on the owner of said rights and Google isn't doing anything to aid in misappropriation of copyrighted material. Throwing the DMCA claim on top just adds to the absurdity. Personally, I hope these guys get crushed in court for trying to pull a stunt like this.
    • Exploited? Please (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "Sex is my job" [bbc.co.uk]

      ""I have never felt exploited. If anything it's giving you power over men. The only people exploited, if anyone is, are the men who go out and spend their money on porn," says..Michelle Thorne, who has worked in the porn industry for six years"
        • by Blkdeath (530393) on Friday August 26 2005, @09:16AM (#13407304) Homepage
          How about all of the 18-24 year old girls who are too damn young to know any better or to think of the long-term consequences of their actions?

          How about all the 18-24 year old girls who are paying their way through school or supporting a family?

          BTW - age 18 is considered in Canada (and much of the United States) as "age of majority". By that age, people are considered mature enough to vote to change the future of our nation, smoke cigarettes, drive any form of motor vehicle, own property, enter into legal contracts, hold full-time careers, etc. Why then are they not old enough to decide how, when and where to use their own bodies?

          BTW2 - what are the consequences? To have people such as yourself and others look down on them for their career choice?

          A friend of mine was a stripper (no sexual favours, just dancing) who paid her way through college, bought a car then replaced it some years later and completely supported her husband while he attended university. She now works full-time (with her clothes on) as does he, and he makes more than enough money to support them both comfortably due to his credentials.

          Does she hide the fact that she stripped? Hell no. Does she feel exploited? Yep. She feels that she exploited dozens of men every night who turned over 10, 20 or even several hundred dollars to be in her company.

    • by gowen (141411) <gwowen@gmail.com> on Friday August 26 2005, @07:53AM (#13406525) Homepage Journal
      So a porn publisher whose whole business is built on exploitation
      Only if you take the axiom that "Porn = Exploitation". If you're not a social conservative, and believe that people should be allowed to show their tits for money if they want to, your analogy simply doesn't

      I do things for money that I wouldn't ordinarily do. It's called "gainful employment".