Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Study Shows Cell Phones Safe

Posted by Zonk on Thu Dec 07, 2006 06:24 PM
from the safe-for-our-human-brains dept.
PreacherTom writes "In a move worthy of the Mythbusters, scientists in Denmark tracked over 420,000 cell phone users over the course of 21 years in an attempt to determine if the urban legend that cell phone use causes cancer is true. Their results: the RF energy produced by the phones did not correlate to an increased incidence of the disease. Please note that this doesn't make chatting on the highway at 85 mph any more safe." From the article: 'This so-called Danish cohort "is probably the strongest study out there because of the outstanding registries they keep,' said Joshua Muscat of Pennsylvania State University, who also has studied cell phones and cancer. 'As the body of evidence accumulates, people can become more reassured that these devices are safe, but the final word is not there yet,' Muscat added."
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • by topham (32406) on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:27PM (#17154678) Homepage
    why start now?
  • by 7macaw (933316) on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:30PM (#17154726)
    I carry my cell phone in my pants pocket. Is it safe?
  • by Lunar_Lamp (976812) on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:32PM (#17154762)
    Even the summary of the article doesn't agree with the title of the article. Whilst I am of the opinion that mobile phones are safe, it is impossible to prove it. It is possible to demonstrate that it is almost certainly not the case, but it is impossible to demonstrate to a mathematical certainty that mobile phones (or any other treatment, e.g. medication, having blonde hair, being called Fred) is safe.
    • And what of it? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Sycraft-fu (314770) on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:47PM (#17154996)
      That's true with anything, including that what you see is real. I don't have the time or the energy to teach you basic philosophy but this is not a new debate. Descartes thought about it, and many have after him. For the best modern thought on how scientific method works and how we prove things empirically, get the Logic of Scientific Discovery by Karl Popper.
  • Somtimes... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Sometimes you need more than a staggering, howling lack of cancer-causation evidence to convince the alties.
  • by Vellmont (569020) on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:36PM (#17154834)
    causes cancer.

    Hey, at least there's a mechanism. Stress has been implicated in contributing to a lot of other diseases, why not cancer?

  • by D4rk Fx (862399) on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:37PM (#17154842) Homepage
    They didn't take into effect the amount of vehicular accidents that are caused by inattentive cell phone drivers. This is probably the most unsafe aspect of them
  • by camperdave (969942) on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:43PM (#17154946) Journal
    Knowing Mythbusters, they had to somehow crank up a cell phone to a ludicrous level to induce cancer. Poor Buster! Still, it might make for an interesting episode.
  • by mollymoo (202721) on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:46PM (#17154990) Journal
    In a move worthy of the Mythbusters, [...]

    If I had an important paper published in a respected scientific journal and someone told me my work was 'worthy of the Mythbusters' I'd punch them in the face.

    • by Vellmont (569020) on Thursday December 07 2006, @07:14PM (#17155458)
      Obviously this study has a lot more scientific integrity than what the Mythbusters do, but to say that what they do isn't science just isn't true.

      Mythbusters is probbably the only show on TV that actually DOES science and shows what it is rather than just acting as a mouthpiece for science. The do everything that other scientists do, albiet within the confines of a television show. They repeat experiments, they accept "peer review", they establish controls. They do everything but publish a paper in a journal. Tell me how what the Mythbusters do isn't science?

      It might not be something you'd want to site in a research paper, so it's not really up to the standards of acadamia, but calling what they do not science is simply wrong.
      • You have to remember that many times Jamie and Adam are looking for aggregate effects and not the minute differences that professional scientists are looking to find. A lot of professional science is attmepting to increase the resolution or accuracy of previous experiments. Hurricanes and straw, crashing cars, exploding cell phones, most of these experiments are more concerned with specificity than sensitivity, i.e. whether a particular event does or does not occur rather than to what degree.

        Just like scien
  • by troll -1 (956834) on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:50PM (#17155050)
    Please note that this doesn't make chatting on the highway at 85 mph any more safe.

    Or perhaps any less safe than chatting with a passenger while drinking a soda at 85 mph, unless we have data to show otherwise.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      This [siu.edu], this [utah.edu] and other minor studies seem to suggest otherwise. It seems that the brain doesn't do as well at multitasking when it has to infer all social information about a conversation from a low-quality audio stream. Doesn't seem very surprising when expressed that way, does it?
  • by thirty-seven (568076) on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:52PM (#17155102)
    This is not at all a "move worthy of MythBusters" as the submitter stated. Mythbusters is entertaining and generally informative television, and this Danish study sounds solid, but the methodologies are totally different, for the obvious reason that sifting through hundreds of thousands of medical records accumulated over many years and applying complex statistical models to them does not make for compelling television.
  • by bananaendian (928499) on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:54PM (#17155128) Homepage Journal
    What about [wikipedia.org]
    1. non-thermal effects,
    2. alpha and delta brain waves,
    3. non-linear interactions,
    4. resonance,
    5. gene expression mechanisms,
    6. production of heat shock proteins,
    7. electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome
      and other bullshit.

    People want to believe in this stuff cause it sounds dangerous. Advocacy groups get funding, lawyers make money, politicians can scare people. Who's gonna listen to a bunch of boring Danish statistics?

    Even the WHO subscribes to the 'precautionary principle'. Forget about it - its all futile! [webhotel.tut.fi]

    • What a HUGE crock! (Score:4, Informative)

      by Fantastic Lad (198284) on Thursday December 07 2006, @11:23PM (#17158122)
      People want to believe in this stuff cause it sounds dangerous. Advocacy groups get funding, lawyers make money, politicians can scare people. Who's gonna listen to a bunch of boring Danish statistics?

      Wow. I've come across some biased Wikipedia articles before, but the one you referenced sets a new low. It's current version, (with a single exception in non-bolded typeface buried in a paragraph), only mentioned studies which illustrate the safety of cell phone tech, and it does this using bolded headline entries. This is a shamefully poor representation of the available data on the subject. The article also fails to mention any of the many cases of conflict of interest which pollute many of the studies which claim safety. That's just pathetic and Wikipedia needs a solid re-write on this one.

      I don't think the claims being made are bullshit, as you suggest, and I certainly am not motivated in my opinions because I like 'dangerous' sounding things. I just don't trust the telcos or the military, and there is plenty of reason not to. Anybody who argues differently is, in my opinion, either ignorant or willfully ignorant. It's the second variety of ignorance which baffles me.


      -FL

  • by Kozar_The_Malignant (738483) on Thursday December 07 2006, @07:07PM (#17155330)

    >'As the body of evidence accumulates, people can become more reassured that these devices are safe, but the final word is not there yet,' Muscat added."

    I am just flipping appalled at the number of people in academia who have not internalized the concept that You Can't Prove A Fucking Negative! Can you prove that Neandertals are extinct? Can you prove that space aliens aren't controlling Bush and Blair with mind rays? Hell no! People seem to spend a huge amount of time worrying about shit that just might maybe could be true because, even though there is absofuckinglutely no evidence FOR it. On the other hand, they will blithely put up with 50,000 automobile deaths per year in the US and god knows how many deaths from tobacco and alcohol. Sheesh!

    Speaking of which, I think I'll go have a medicinal gin and tonic and calm down.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      An appropriate subject line;) But I have to point you to this [infidels.org] article.

      You are right to be frustrated by the kind of reasoning that the OP was using, but not because it's impossible to prove a negative, but because it is impossible to completely prove anything so broad as 'Mobile phones do not cause cancer'. The article talks about taking the best bet, which is just looking at the evidence which is of course what everyone does every day with just about every action.

      Pedantry regarding provability is pointless

  • by deal99 (170674) on Thursday December 07 2006, @10:00PM (#17157390)
    Is there any European that does not use a cell phone?
  • by patio11 (857072) on Thursday December 07 2006, @10:19PM (#17157582)
    ... then we would be talking about the nation of Japan in the past tense. I rest my case.
  • by Fantastic Lad (198284) on Thursday December 07 2006, @11:49PM (#17158326)
    It never was.

    It's about fuzzing the brain.

    Please pardon the bold face, but it seems this subject calls for it. . .

    The blood-brain barrier becomes permeable when exposed to EM cell phone frequencies. This is shown by injecting dye into the blood of rats and exposing them to cell phone EM. The short version: control groups don't end up with dyed brains while the exposed groups do. This experiment has been repeated numerous times.

    --Now aside from an artificially permeable blood-brain barrier making your brain more susceptible to whatever agents happen to be in your blood at the time, the really interesting question people should be instantly asking is, "How does cell phone EM cause this to happen?"

    And better yet, "What OTHER cellular responses are stimulated by cell phone EM?"

    This isn't rocket science. It's simply a matter of taking the data as it comes, remembering it as you read more articles, and applying it in a logical fashion to form more questions.

    Why the heck is everybody so caught up by the Cancer question when there is OBVIOUSLY something else important going on?


    -FL

      • Yep. You're right. I was incorrect in stating that the exact experiment with rats performed by Henry Lai was duplicated. That was bad writing, and I was regretting it the instant I hit 'Submit'. --I should have been more specific in saying that the effect has been repeated numerous times. The actual experiment with rats has only been performed by Henry Lai.

        However, blood-brain barrier permeability due to EM radiation has been demonstrated numerous times.

        here [blackwell-synergy.com]

        here [ehponline.org]

        and here [216.239.51.104]

        and here's an actual post [bio.net] from an
    • Re:21 years? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by geekoid (135745) <dadinportland.yahoo@com> on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:48PM (#17155026) Homepage Journal
      If the cell phones 20 years ago didn't cause cancer, then todays less powerfull phones certianly do not.
    • Wow, the US has mobile phones now? Cool! They've only been commonplace in Europe for about 15 years...
    • Re:21 years? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jott42 (702470) on Thursday December 07 2006, @06:50PM (#17155058)
      Sweden (not Denmark, but close) did start an analog cell phone network in 1981: the NMT system. The system was standardised to be the same within the nordic countries, of which Denmark is one. (Japan started even earlier, in 1979)
      It is not always correct to assume that USA is on the edge of technology development and deployment.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          The numbers form the study (males and females) of cell phone users between 15-21 years: 10,968 and between 10-15 years: 45,680. Total number of subjects were 420,095 persons. The study was supported by the Danish Strategic Research Council and the Danish Cancer Society. According to the article: "The funding sources were not involved in the study design or data collection, analyses, or interpretation."
          The article do discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the study, any blame on putting things in a better
    • Their outlier started using a mobile 21 years ago, he must have been a real early adopter. 52k people had been using mobiles for 10 years or more. So 7/8 of the study has been using a mobile for less than 10 years. Makes any conclusions on the longterm effects very dubious. In particular (as someone further up noted) usage patterns have changed drastically over the past few years. Rather than an occasional call, many people now use mobile phones almost constantly. It will be another 20 years before we have
    • Re:Stupid (Score:5, Insightful)

      by SEMW (967629) on Thursday December 07 2006, @07:02PM (#17155266)

      You know, I can smoke one cigarette a week for 15 years, then a pack a week for the remaining 5 years and probably not get lung cancer and the end of that 20 year time period. That doesn't exactly mean that smoking isn't harmful.
      Perfectly true, you probably won't get lung cancer. However, if instead of considering just yourself, you survey 420,000 people over that same 20 years, the incidence of lung cancer among that group will be very much higher than a control group. It's called a scientific study. In fact, TFA is about a scientific study exactly like that one! What a coincidence.

      Putting a device that emits radiation next to your head is harmful.
      And you could give me what evidence for that statement? What study are you quoting? Or did you just make it up on the spot? I'm guessing the latter.
        • Re:Stupid (Score:5, Informative)

          by SEMW (967629) on Thursday December 07 2006, @07:36PM (#17155790)

          I kind of thought it was common sense that radiation is harmful. I didn't think we still needed studies to prove this.
          OK, facts of life talk. Long to medium range electromagnetic radiation is everywhere, all the time. The Sun emits a hell of a lot of it in a Planck distribution, only a few narrow bands of which are absorbed by the atmosphere. Anywhere you could turn on a radio and hear a station, that means you are bathed in man made radio waves (whether you have a radio or not) -- and even when you can't hear a station, there's still a hell of a lot of natural radio waves around (which a radio hears as static). Moving higher up the spectrum; low energy microwaves are coming down at us from every corner of the universe; it's called the Cosmic Microwave Background. Infrared is, of course, only a step into the sunlight away (or in front of a fire, etc.). And then you get visible light -- also a form of EM radiation (radiation is dangerous? better turn off that light-bulb!). Not to mention *anything* that glows when hot approximates a black-body, emitting visible light, infrared, microwaves, and radio waves. That light-bulb is emitting not only visible light, but also infrared and microwaves (and negligible amounts of UV). Better get that tin-foil hat on -- remember, "it's common sense that radiation is harmful"...

          "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen"
          -- Albert Einstein
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          Whats wrong with using common sense? During the days of Audrey Hepburn (who's dress is now worth thousands of dollars, can't be that bad) it was quite common to smoke. Guess what people told the scepticists of smoking during those days? Better yet: guess who is laughing last? (this isn't meant as a sick joke. its not my fault the truth is unforgiving).

          Uhhh, you do realise you've just proved my point? Back in those days it was, as you say, "common sense" that smoking was good for you -- after all, it made you lose weight, and helps you relax, and those are medical benefits, right? Well, wrong. So who's laughing last? The people who decided not to listen to common sense and go out and do scientific research into whether smoking really was good for you. And guess what? It wasn't. So now who's laughing? Anyone who listened to the scientific research

    • This "study" tells us nothing. 21 years? How many people even had a cell phone 21 years ago? Of those people, how many of them talked on said phone for two hours a day, every day, for 21 years?

      Way to pick the exceptional case mentioned in passing because it's interesting but not important at all to complain about. If the article is vaguely accurate then it looks like what they did was pull data from the cancer registry, pull data from the phone company, mush it together and shock horror people who use mobi

    • by Vellmont (569020) on Thursday December 07 2006, @07:29PM (#17155696)
      You better stop your needless worrying. According to my new theory, worrying about cell phones causing cancer causes cancer. Don't believe it? Well no one has disproven it yet!

      Also according to my made-up numbers, 10 years ago people used to only worry about cell phones causing cancer 5 minutes a day. These days with people like you around people worry about cell phones causing cancer 20 minutes a day! Maybe the worrying wasn't detectable back then, but it is now! We'll only know in 30 years!

      Putting a device that emits radiation next to your head is harmful. How much? Who knows.

      Worrying about dangers that don't exist is harmful. How much? Who knows. But if I state things as if we don't know anything about it, that totally false sense of uncertainty sure sounds scary.

      My prescription includes making fun of people that don't understand science. ;)
      • Re:Stupid (Score:5, Funny)

        by SEMW (967629) on Friday December 08 2006, @12:22AM (#17158578)
        You would be correct. According to Wikipedia [wikipedia.org], Humans emit around 95 Watts with a peak wavelength of 9500nm (infrared). For reference, the equivalent numbers for mobile phones are 0.6W and around 30cm.

        The question now is... Are you giving your mobile phone cancer? :)
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      "100% conclusive"

      There is no serious study that can be 100% conclusive. If anybody comes to you preaching 100%-fool-proof numbers that is a sure tale-tale sign you are dealing with a wanker. What you can do is set extremely low chances for your study to be wrong (less than 2%, less than 1%, etc). Unfortunately the closer you get to zero, the more effort (read size of your case study) you must put into it. At some point you have to have some faith in probability.

      There will always be incredulous people or con