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Google and Skype in Startup to Link Hotspots
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon Feb 06, 2006 01:24 AM
from the resistance-is-futile dept.
from the resistance-is-futile dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Google and Skype are investing in a new startup (FON, the Spanish startup) that plans to help hotspot owners charge for Wi-Fi access points. The plan outlines two different classes of customer; "Linus" members, named after Linus Torvalds, will share their hotspot with other Linus members for free and "Bill" members, named after Microsoft's Bill Gates, will charge for access to their hotspot. FON will get some of that revenue, and share it with ISPs."
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Fantastic names (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Fantastic names (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Fantastic names (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
RMS and Linus charge their own price (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, BSD is the antithesis of Windows, because it is the only completely free OS. RMS's GNU puts strings on it's "free" software that limit how you can distribute modified copies.
geek pride (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:geek pride (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Reverse Alchemy? (Score:2, Funny)
Now excuse me, I have to fill out my application for an Unobtainium MasterCard.
Re:geek pride (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it's a great way to introduce people to Linux and the concept that there is something other than the "Microsoft Way".
Those of us that know what it means will chuckle, those of them that don't will ask "where'd the names come from?".
I think it's fantastic.
Sure as hell beats the standard marketing bullshit naming schemes that seem to be everywhere, IMO.
Parent
Re:geek pride (Score:2)
Kudos to them. People should stop taking some things so seriously.
Aliens (Score:5, Informative)
Linuses: People who will let others (Aliens and other Linuses) use their links, if they in turn can use other Linuses links.
Bills: People who will let others (Aliens) use their links, for a percentage of the profits.
Aliens: People who are willing to pay Bills to use their links (and since they pay, they can use Linuses links), but aren't willing to share their own connections.
For more information about the different types of users, see http://en.fon.com/info/linus-meet-bill-meet-an-al
Re:Aliens (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Competition (Score:5, Funny)
I just don't understand what they could offer that would make me switch.
They can't compete on price, nor anonymity.
Re:Competition (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about the residential areas where there isn't a borders or starbucks nearby: You could connect to a "bill" access point hosted by your average joe (provided you bought the subscription), bill gets paid, and google gets paid. While one may think that google is getting something for nothing, it offers a universal payment scheme for residential access points everywhere.
All this and I didn't even RTFA.
Parent
Re:Competition (Score:5, Insightful)
All this and I didn't even RTFA.
Hardly anybody RTFA. Mesh networks with multiple outlets to the general Internet threaten the entire status quo; the telecom companies fear this and that is exactly why we all need to promote it. Your ability to get your bits in and out of your neighborhood network is terrifying to the established telecom monopolies as well as the giant media companies. This is what we have to work to implement immediately.
Parent
Re:Competition (Score:3, Interesting)
Convincing the ISPs to change their contracts now (before this has had a chance to grow to the point where the value added actually matters) is another matter...
What can they offer me I can't do myself? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What can they offer me I can't do myself? (Score:2)
You are slightly mistaken -- you are sharing your WiFi with anyone who wants Internet access and is motivated enough to crack your meager security.
Re:What can they offer me I can't do myself? (Score:3, Interesting)
a) other people use that network connection rather than just you
b) FON will know who they are and have contact details for them
That is the reason I don't share my connection, fear that at some point I will have to prove my innocence and what I HAVEN'T done. We all know how hard it is to PROVE a negative is such cases.
And Balmer members.. (Score:5, Funny)
Other models (Score:3, Funny)
Like the Linus model, it will be free to use. However it will log everything you do for non-evil purposes.
Launch seven weeks from now? (Score:4, Funny)
Like just after March 31st?!?
Two plus One is Three. (Score:2, Funny)
"Steve" membership (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Two plus One is Three. (Score:2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Balmer [wikipedia.org]
Liability? (Score:5, Insightful)
Tell me this when.. (Score:4, Insightful)
A dangerous precident is being set right now and I feel as if we as private citizens are helpless.
Parent
Re:Liability? (Score:3, Informative)
Not very reassuring to me.
No? I think this is the bit that is reassuring on that count:
FON discourages any inappropriate use of your connection by making sure that each user of the FON Community has registered and is identifiable."
So when the RIAA comes delivers their lawsuit, you should be able to go to FON (or even your own logs perhaps?) and find the name and address of the person who actually did the downloading. Begin able to say "I didn't do it, X did, and here's the proof" puts you in a pre
And snoopy members... (Score:2, Insightful)
22 million for this? (Score:5, Insightful)
- aims to do something obvious("FON's idea is not entirely novel - in fact, several companies and associations have tried to tie together free Wi-Fi hotspots into networks, but no one has succeeded on a large scale.")
- doesn't yet have a plan on how to prevent the notoriously insular/suspicious ISP's from blocking this service("FON faces a hurdle in that most ISPs prohibit subscribers from sharing internet access with people outside their household")
- doesn't have the software for the "Bill"(read: paying) part of the idea for the next 4 months
- is going against the grain when it comes to wi-fi trends(wasn't Google itself planning to offer free wi-fi in SF?)
- is treading slippery legal ground here(consumers reselling their Internet connections to others)
But wait, Google is investing in it so I guess this really must be a great idea right?
Re:22 million for this? (Score:2)
Well, you must admit that Google's track record has been fairly good... they figured out how to make $$$ on search-engine advertising, back when everybody else thought it would be unworkable to do so; perhaps they will figure (or have figured) out how to make this work as well.
Slippery legal ground?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Think about it, all other things being equal, if with one ISP you can use FON and with another not, and you can gain something from it (free roaming) then the ISP who accepts FON will get more customers, plus the revenue share FON are offering.
Promising but also scary (Score:3, Insightful)
The whole thing rests with a private company.
Unlike Napster:
1. The entry barrier is huge. [We are not dealing with data alone]
2. It is difficult to switch to another service; unlike Kazaa to eDonkey to BitTorrent. The reach of the service is local, for Napster it was anyone anywhere with a Network Connection.
3. The guy who started this, is more of a shrewd businessman. He may not give a damn about all that "Freedom" that we really care about.
4. Lots of chicken and egg issues for a competitor to spring up [like ISP support]
By 2008, if this service has 5 million people hooked (like Napster); then where will we stand? To emphasize, unlike switching email providers, or P2P servers, the entry barrier will be monstrous; and only an investment from the likes of Microsoft or IBM will create a competitor.
I will never sign-up for this!
Basically (Score:3, Insightful)
Is this different than Sputnik? (Score:2)
Linus and Bill (Score:2)
I wonder if anyone will release a Darl model too.
Re:Linus and Bill (Score:3, Funny)
That would be the hotspot that is not connected to the internet, yet it broadcasts an SSID and automatically files computer hacking charges against you when you connect.
Re:Linus and Bill (Score:2)
Yes, but it'll just be a guy going from door to door with Darl decals and telling people that they need to place them over the name on the Linus model.
Followed by... (Score:4, Funny)
You open your laptop, attempt to sign onto the wireless network, and a man in a black turtleneck walks up to you, swipes your credit card and hands you a glass of Kool-Aid.
It takes 30 minutes for the first ping...but after that you can connect to anyone in the world for the next 12 hours. In fact, the connection is so good, you can leave your laptop and just move your life-spirit to the actual server you are connecting to, and savor the magnetic aura of the hard drives, whilst having full access to your iTunes library...even the songs that won't be written for another 20 years.
Beat that shit.
'Linus' users shouldn't be (Score:3, Insightful)
Skype is both closed source and more importantly uses closed VoIP protocols. It is the antithesis of the 'Linus'. If you don't think that matters, then you just don't get it.
Re:'Linus' users shouldn't be (Score:2, Insightful)
Thus it's called the "Linus" model (gratis) and not the "Richard" model (libre)
FON's website (Score:4, Informative)
http://en.fon.com/ [fon.com]
And of course, their blog: http://blog.fon.com/en/ [fon.com]
It still isn't too clear though on what the advantage is of having a "Linus" hotspot instead of just having it be open-access. My guess is that the main benefit is that hotspot users are authenticated with a "global" ID, which would help deter abuse, spamming, etc.
Re:FON's website (Score:5, Informative)
Are you sure you read the site? The reason to run a Linus hotspot is so that you will get reciprocal access to all the other Linus hostpots out there.
[And how did parent get modded informative? All it said was that the author didn't have any information to add.]
Parent
Mesh networks (Score:2, Interesting)
A tough part of any agreement like this is, just like the article states, to actually get people to work together and provide access. There is an interesting perspective on how it might need a radical group who do it for kicks in Cory Doctorow's novel " Someone Comes to Town, Someone Leaves Town [craphound.com]" to get things moving.
Personally, I think a time will come when WiFi access is very common, and some kind of roaming agreement between providers will cause your access to be metered by your ISP wherever you are.
Tri
If you know Spain, you'll see it won't work (Score:3, Informative)
1) The man itself. No one in Spain would buy a used car from Martin Varsavsky.
2) In Spain it's illegal to resell or even share your Internet connection, the contract with the ISP almost always says so. It can be debatable, but it is what you have signed.
In fact, FON has been around for some time with very limited success. It gets mentioned in the news just because Varsavsky is a known celebrity in Spanish ISP world.
Does FW help sharing Internet access but not LAN? (Score:4, Insightful)
I do have an open access point at home, because I appreciate my ability to use other people's access points when I'm on the road, and so I feel I have to share mine as well.
BUT, I don't want to share my LAN.
It just happens that I do have 2 access points at home, so what I do is that I use the crypted one and leave the other one open for friends, visitors and passers-by.
This is not a very good solution, because I need to remember to switch off the open AP whenever I connect an insecure machine on my LAN (like during OS install, etc.), and every time I switch it back on, I have to think about my notebook's firewall and sharing settings.
What would be really great would be a router solving these problems in an easily configurable way: some authenticated users have access to the whole LAN while others have not.
Until now, the only solution I have seen is a VLAN switch, which is too expensive for home use.
Re:Does FW help sharing Internet access but not LA (Score:3)
I just set up a spare Linux box with three NICs - one to the cablemodem, one to the wired LAN, one to the AP. Then just set up whatever software you want for isolating / verifying / authenticating. I used OpenVPN to allow access to the wired LAN, although I've considered trying out NoCatAuth as well. I am also thinking about implementing some firewall rules to impose throttlin
YOU are annoying... (Score:2, Insightful)
Do you think it is free for the provider? No? Than what makes you special that you think someone else should pay for your convience?
Re:This is annoying (Score:5, Insightful)
The obvious response to this would be to not go to Starbucks. If you don't like that a business will not give you free internet access, don't shop there. This seems pretty brain dead simple to me. Hell, here in Boston there is a Starbucks and an ESR. ESR offers a free and open wi-fi access. Guess which place I buy my coffee from?
If the manager of Starbucks feels that offering free wi-fi will hurt business, then why should he do it? If he thinks he can make extra by charging for wi-fi, why not? If you don't like it, go some where else.
Parent
Re:This is annoying (Score:5, Interesting)
In this country (Malaysia), wifi is free at Starbucks. I don't really see anyone with a laptop who doesn't also have a drink-in-progress. People (myself included) order something every hour or so, and at those prices, that's surely keeping them in business.
After hours it's a different story. Many of the Starbucks near me have primarily outdoor seating, and when they shut at 1 or 2am, strange characters show up with decal-coated laptops and do mysterious things late into the night. If this really bothered the management, presumably they would turn off the access point or bring in the chairs at closing time.
Parent
Re:Love the Idea but lets CC it (Score:3, Informative)
That is the Linus side. As to the code, it is freely available via their site, so copying is not that difficult. In fact, it is the linux set-up for the linksys w54g model