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China Prepares to Launch Alternate Internet

Posted by Zonk on Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:09 PM
from the aided-by-google-no-doubt dept.
The Internet Government Politics
Netfree writes "The Chinese government has announced plans to launch an alternate Internet root system with new Chinese character domains for dot-com and dot-net. This may mean that Chinese Internet users will no longer rely on ICANN, the U.S.-backed domain name administrator, and, as one commentator notes, could be the beginning of the end of the globally interoperable Internet."
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  • A long time coming... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TripMaster Monkey (862126) * on Tuesday February 28 2006, @12:11PM (#14817794)

    Given the intransigence the U.S. has displayed in the past regarding control of TLDs, this move isn't all that surprising. It is somewhat surprising, however, that China has chosen .com and .net as two of their TLDs, virtually guaranteeing operability problems with the rest of the Internet. While this manufactured difficulty is obviously by design, the motive remains unclear. Do the Chinese wish to:

    • create their own internet, by design incompatible with the rest of the world,
    • cause as much trouble as possible for the 'other' internet, or
    • a combination of the two?

    One thing is for sure...network administrators will have an interesting time trying to reconcile the conflicting TLDs .com and .net. Perhaps the fact that the Chinese TLDs are in the Chinese character set can be used to some effect, but I'm not certain.

    Wha I am certain of is this: when I'm in charge, we'll have none of this 'multiple language' crap. Everyone will speak Esperanto [wikipedia.org], or else.

    • Very simple (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Brunellus (875635) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @12:13PM (#14817839) Homepage

      The idea is user-friendliness and connectivity, but on the terms of the Chinese Communist Party

      Chinese-encoded TLDs will make it easier for an increasingly-wired Chinese people to use the internet. It will also make it much easier for the Party to control exactly what happens on Chinese-language domains.

      In an earlier age, Mao said that the Party must be in control of the gun. Now, the Party must be in control of the network. The effect is the same.

        • Maybe I'm missing something... I thought I had a pretty firm grasp on how DNS works.

          If China creates it's own ROOT servers, which contain forwarding information for the .{chinese-character-for-com} namespace, and another forwarder for .com (in english) namespace, aren't we talking about two distinct and seperate namespaces?

          How does this break anything? It doesn't as far as I'm concerned. Someone tell me different, and if I get a bunch of doublespeak, I'll just call Cricket. (I'm dead serious.)

          Perhaps more importantly, if the Chinese decided to sever their connectivity to the outside world (and with the Great Firewall, they've had that ability all along), how does this hurt the rest of the world?

          China is a manufacturer, and an exporter. Insulating themselves from the global buyers hurts them, not us. We'll just have to get our paper drink umbrellas (and other cheaply made consumable crap) from someplace else. Wal-mart will be harmed a little while they forge new relationships with Taiwan, the Phillipines, Korea, and Maylasia... Barely a blip on the radar.

          • I think the point is that if China create their own DNS, they will filter other DNS requests at The Great Firewall. This will likely be outgoing only; I'm sure other countries will be able to query the Chinese system.

            There is one huge advantage in this for them; The Great Firewall turns from being a blacklist to a whitelist. Instead of blocking sites based on reports or automatic scanning of content, allowed sites would have to be enabled on the Chinese DNS system. Their DNS would know to delegate to the

          • "We'll just have to get our paper drink umbrellas (and other cheaply made consumable crap) from someplace else. Wal-mart will be harmed a little while they forge new relationships with Taiwan, the Philippines, Korea, and Malaysia..."

            I'm afraid that your paper drink umbrellas may cost twice as much because Taiwan and Philippines will double the prices because of the increased demand... I'm afraid that you will need to pay twice as much for your Nike shoes, ThinkPad, mobile phone, t-shirts, pants, slippers, w
    • It is somewhat surprising, however, that China has chosen .com and .net as two of their TLDs, virtually guaranteeing operability problems with the rest of the Internet.

      Should not be a problem as long as their names include even one Chinese character, since I'm not aware that ICANN is even capable of assigning such names otherwise. At least I have yet to hear about any such names.

      Strikes me that what they're trying to do is even further cut themselves off from undesired Western influences. They may wel

    • China has already implemented this internet, and the url in the OP is hosted on it! That's why I'm getting access denied!
    • Surely you mean lojban [wikipedia.org] right?

  • Because why would any Chinese citizen use that over the actual internet?

    -Jesse
    • "Because why would any Chinese citizen use that over the actual internet?"

      You assume they will have a choice?
    • All root systems are totally optional. You don't need to use DNS at all to use the Internet, and if you do use DNS, you are free to use your own that is tied to no roots and assign domains to IPs as you see fit. The ICANN roots are simply the defacto standard. It's a system that nearly everyone uses to provide DNS that's accessable to everyone else. There are other root services, OpenNIC for example, they just aren't used all that much.

      This is all much ado about nothing, as it always has been with these DNS
      • You don't need to use DNS at all to use the Internet, and if you do use DNS, you are free to use your own that is tied to no roots and assign domains to IPs as you see fit.

        And in other news, The Chinese government has banned the use of foriegn root servers. Violators may be enrolled in the the state "Organ Donor" farm program.
  • This most likely wouldn't have happened if the current Bush administration cooperates internationally. Thanks a bunch!
    • What? No... that doesn't make sense at all. What does Bush have anything to do with this? He's a dummy, no doubt, but seriously... What are you basing that conclusion on? Besides, having china off the internet just means less spam / viruses / crap for me.
    • Are you people in denial? The Chinese are not particularly nice people, but their manufacturing economy would run a lot smoother over an interoperable Internet. Given the choice of maintaining the Great Firewall of China vs. maintaining their own damn Internet, I suspect even the PRC would choose the former if it were in any way easier.

  • it makes sense... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AxemRed (755470) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @12:12PM (#14817813)
    Controlling the backbones will make the "internet" a lot easier for them to censor.
    • but its not a "backbone".. china already controls their network backbones. this is entirely different, they are root domain servers... i know im being picky, but still, come on.
  • I doubt it. The current system is too embedded in China to be totally replaced by their own DNS system.
    • I doubt it. The current system is too embedded in China to be totally replaced by their own DNS system.

      Not at all; China has one of the largest industrial bases on the planet. It would not surprise me if they could completely strip down and rework their entire Internet structure in as little as 2-3 years. Remember, the government mandates things; despite reforms, the Communist government is still in control and can "recommend" the use of their Internet over the larger one. And for anyone wishing to object

  • Or.... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tdeuces (957421)
    "As one commentator notes, could be the beginning of the end of the globally interoperable Internet".

    Or it could mean the rest of the world will continue to be interoperable while China becomes even more isolated.

  • I guess (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Orclover (228413)
    I guess google's bending over backwards to censor the web searching just wasnt good enough, maybe some of the citizens figured out how to use lycos. Nothing they can do about that but recreate the internet in thier own immage. But without porn...will it really be the internet?
  • You know, the US used to be a lot more isolationist. We tend to see ourselves as superior, which limits our incentive to reach out to other countries. So we have people inside and outside of the US pressuring Americans go "go global." Given the commerce relationships we have with China, I have a feeling that they're one of the major source of that pressure. "Go global! Buy from China!"

    And then they turn around and start closing themselves off from the rest of the world.

  • sigh (Score:5, Insightful)

    by eobanb (823187) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @12:15PM (#14817852) Homepage
    I can't help but view this as the fault of the US. Think about it. ICANN, a US organisation, has done little to cater to the wishes of China, even though they're a large (and growing) presence on the internet. I may not agree with some of the views of the Chinese government, but if they want Chinese TLDs, they should have them.

    ICANN needs to get off their high horse immediately.

    • Re:sigh (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I can't help but view this as the fault of the US. Think about it. ICANN, a US organisation, has done little to cater to the wishes of China, even though they're a large (and growing) presence on the internet.

      China's wishes are irrelevant. Like most countries, ICANN gave control of .cn to the Chinese government to manage as they see fit. I have no clue if China is doing a good job of managing .cn. But it's up to them.

      I may not agree with some of the views of the Chinese government, but if they want Chinese

    • Re:sigh (Score:4, Insightful)

      by IAmTheDave (746256) <basenamedave-sd@@@yahoo...com> on Tuesday February 28 2006, @12:33PM (#14818064) Homepage Journal
      I can't help but view this as the fault of the US. Think about it.

      Not at all. China wants full and complete control of the internet and how it gives information to it's users. If ICANN had made chinese-character-encoded TLDs available, the Chinese government would have chosen a different method of control.

      Make no mistake - this is an isolationary tactic, taking back control of what I'm sure the Chinese government sees as rightfully theirs. If ICANN does not exist in China and is not beholden to Chinese authority, then China does not have enough control and will shun ICANN, no matter how "cooperative" they may be.

          • There is no technological reason
            Chinese (and other languages) cannot be used in URLs, including TLDs. Unfortuantely, ICANN doesn't really see offering the internet to non-Latin character set languages as important. ICANN only gave China, .cn. The US on the other hand has .com, .net, .org, .mil, .edu, .gov, etc...

            Another problem is that ICANN gave the majority of the IPV4 addresses to the US. Huge countries such as China were left with nearly nothing. When given only one TLD, allotted only a small fract

    • Re:sigh (Score:3, Informative)

      by Kaa (21510)
      I can't help but view this as the fault of the US

      LOL. You're funny.

      It's pretty clear the Chinese government wants its own "internet" which it can control and which it can keep separate from the rest of the world. It's a control freaks' power trip.

      I may not agree with some of the views of the Chinese government, but if they want Chinese TLDs, they should have them.

      What do you think the .cn TLD is?
  • As if millions of MMORPG gold farmers cried out in terror, and were suddenly silences...

  • Bad for China's economy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by G4from128k (686170) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @12:18PM (#14817871)
    This move puts Chinese companies at a competitive disadvantage -- how can they connect to foreign suppliers, distributors, and customers? Will western companies continue to outsource to China if the country puts up too many obstacles to free communication?
    • Will western companies continue to outsource to China if the country puts up too many obstacles to free communication?
      Not if it changes the economic to a great degree. Not only that but what if I can't find your company in the first place, let us say that I search Google for custom manufacturing and I only find places in Japan, the US, and India, but not China. Big problem. The government in China must ride the Tiger, if they stop it will attack them...

    • Re:Bad for China's economy-western-centric view (Score:4, Insightful)

      by UnanimousCoward (9841) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @12:56PM (#14818367) Homepage
      ...how can they connect to foreign suppliers, distributors, and customers?

      You should be asking the question the other way around:

      How can foreign suppliers, distributors, and customers connect to them?

      Clearly, China has made a calculated decision that these parties need China more than China needs them, and that steps will be taken to accommodate the problem...
  • And thanks for all the fish!
  • This could be great, if china closes itself off from the rest of the net, my firewalls will give an audible sigh of relief. Now only if eastern europe would follow suit.
  • ... after reading all of this, does this mean that China is starting its own root, isolated from the rest of the world, or is it starting a roo that can understand chinese characters?

    I'm thinking the latter, though I'm at work and don't really care either way.
  • One artcle is slashdotted, and the other two are short on technical details. So, I'm wondering, how are they going to make people go to the governments name servers? Will using your own cache hints file beecome a hanging offense? Will they stop routing all of ICANN's root servers?

    When (not if) the Chinese government starts using their name servers as part of their censorship operations, a zillion "alternative" name servers will spring up behind the Great Firewall of China. A zillion distributed names se

  • DNS != Internet, and DNS hierarchy (Score:3, Interesting)

    by billstewart (78916) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @12:33PM (#14818068) Journal
    This doesn't end the globally interoperable Internet - as long as IP packets go end-to-end, it's still just fine. Depending on exactly how they've implemented this, it may be cleanly interoperable with the rest of DNS (except that the Global Roots have to get around to including China's extra CC_TLDs), or it may be interoperable for anybody using a compatible Chinese character-set handler client (which shouldn't be a big problem, since the reason for Chinese-Character CCTLDs is to include Chinese-character content). On the other hand, it could be implemented in a way that horribly breaks any 7-bit-ASCII DNS client. It shouldn't do that - DNS is hierarchical, so the worst it should do is botch lookups to the section because the DNS server's responding in Unicode and the client doesn't understand them.
  • ...as one commentator notes, could be the beginning of the end of the globally interoperable Internet.

    I'd be happy to read Michael Geist's comments if his server wasn't slashdotted. Based on the article summary (as well all know are always 100% accurate) I have to call this a load of crap.

    If both networks are still using IPv4 then there is no end to the global internet, only the global domain system. I know, I know. For most, domain names *are* the internet. But all I have to do is throw my DNS requests

  • Issue of Control (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Nkwe (604125) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @12:33PM (#14818074)
    If China wanted to control what their citizens could see and do on the Internet they could 1) set up their own DNS, and 2) Prohibit DNS traffic from leaving or entering the country. While technically savvy folks could navigate by solely IP or make partnerships with someone outside of China to get DNS information over non-standard ports, restricting use of DNS would be a highly effective control.

  • Screw you guys (Score:5, Funny)

    by Daetrin (576516) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @12:39PM (#14818147)
    I'm going to go build my own internet! With blackjack! And hookers!

    In fact, forget the internet!

  • Did anyone actually read the first link? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by code65536 (302481) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @02:31PM (#14819470) Homepage Journal
    I read both links, and I have to say that it's very cryptic. I think something got lost in the translation, but here is what *I* think they were saying...

    They are creating new TLDs to supplement .com and .net. The new TLDs will be composed of Chinese characters, so instead of blah.com, you'll have blah.[X][X] where [X] represents a Chinese character. If this is all that they are doing--creating new non-ASCII TLDs--then there wouldn't be much in the way of conflict with the existing .com and .net structure.

    But as I said, the language is confusing at best and I'm not sure if this is what they are really intending.
    • Except for a typo, that was a very effective, one might say valid, bit of international communication.
      Oh, wait. Maybe you meant "not the only valid means." Still, I wouldn't say that you are illiterate for such a slip. And I'll take your word on your hygiene.
    • Most of those languages are slowly but surely losing the diacritical marks.

      See many circumflexes lately? They're being deprecated from French sloly but surely. Other accents will follow
    • It's about-time that the anglo-saxons wake-up to the fact that their crippled alphabet is not a valid means of international communication!

      Other languages have different characters and or accents on them, and it's always a piss-off to be forced to use a characted subset to express yourself properly; when you leave out the accents, you look like an illiterate slob who does not know how to write correctly.

      (Reposted, account modetarded as "overrated" by an ignorant redneck moderator).

    • Maybe you should ask yourself how many American people have set a different DNS server, or have installed an alternative application for a common task (say, a webbrowser, a wordprocessor) against "the mainstream".

      Sure, some geeks may do this. But (certainly after some time) the vast majority of users just has the system configured "as it is supposed to be" (or as it comes by default).

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