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Music Industry Prepares to Sue Yahoo China

Posted by Zonk on Tue Jul 04, 2006 07:53 AM
from the yahouch dept.
Businesses The Internet Yahoo! Government The Courts Media Music News Politics
magicchex writes "According to their chairman, John Kennedy, the International Federation of the Phonographic Industries (IFPI) is preparing to sue Yahoo China unless negotiations are agreed upon which satisfy the IFPI. Yahoo China is the second most popular search engine in China, with the frontrunner, Baidu, already involved in an ongoing lawsuit brought by the IFPI. The BBC article is vague in its description of what exactly Yahoo China would be sued for, mentioning that it provides links to pirated music tracks but not explaining this any further other than a statement that 'a simple search on Yahoo China found mp3 files of recent releases for direct download within a few clicks.'"
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[+] Your Rights Online: Music Giants Sue Baidu Over Music Downloads 211 comments
chengee writes "Music giants Universal, EMI, Warner, Sony BMG and their local subsidiaries are suing Chinese search engine Baidu for allegedly infringing the copyright of hundreds of songs, a press report said Friday. Looks like the party is going to be over for Chinese downloaders. But more importantly how will this lawsuit turn out in a place known for its lax copyright laws?"
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  • I'm sure... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by corychristison (951993) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @07:57AM (#15655731)
    'a simple search on Yahoo China found mp3 files of recent releases for direct download within a few clicks.'
    I'm sure a search on most forms of search engines would produce similar results. Why does Yahoo China get the can for this?
    • Because companies based in America have better lawyers?

      That's seriously the only reason I can think of.

    • Re:I'm sure... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Xiroth (917768) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @08:10AM (#15655759)
      In fact, you could probably get to a site with direct downloads of pirated mp3s within 'a few clicks' from the IPFI's site. If this kind of justification is sufficient, maybe they should just sue the entire internet.

    • Re:I'm sure... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by LiquidCoooled (634315) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @08:11AM (#15655761) Homepage Journal
      You would be surprised.
      It used to be the case, but now it seems to be getting harder (at least on google)
      Theres more spam and lyrics and legal sites coming up tops.

      By the time you find anything your on page 97 and searching in foreign languages on random domains.

      I just gave an example of looking for a specific ebook and not managing to find it by direct filename and other common things on google, but managing to get it very easily from yahoo.

      • Re:I'm sure... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by sm62704 (957197) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @09:50AM (#15656134) Journal
        You can't even find ligitimate MP3s on Google.

        Try to find this file [gotshoo.com]. It's a song by my friends Posamist [posamist.com] named "Silky Smooth".

        Search for "posamist silky smooth" (no quotes) and you only get links to some old shit on K5 mentioning the song and band. You won't find the MP3, even though I linked to all their MP3s on my (Google indexed) blog September of last year.

        Which is what the RIAA/MPAA want. A Yahoo search DOES return the file, it's the fourth result. What was that about Google not being evil again?

        • Re:I'm sure... (Score:5, Informative)

          by Haeleth (414428) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @10:30AM (#15656278) Journal
          Search for "posamist silky smooth" (no quotes) and you only get links to some old shit on K5 mentioning the song and band. You won't find the MP3, even though I linked to all their MP3s on my (Google indexed) blog September of last year.
          Which is what the RIAA/MPAA want. A Yahoo search DOES return the file, it's the fourth result. What was that about Google not being evil again?

          Um. I searched for "posamist silky smooth" (no quotes) on Google, and the third result was this [gotshoo.com]. Is that the MP3 you're talking about, or are there two bands called Posamist who have released songs called Silky Smooth?

          And even if I hadn't been able to find the MP3 you named on Google in three clicks, I'm not sure exactly how that would make Google "evil". Evil is when you contribute to human suffering, not when you don't index binary files on your text search engine.

          • And even if I hadn't been able to find the MP3 you named on Google in three clicks, I'm not sure exactly how that would make Google "evil". Evil is when you contribute to human suffering, not when you don't index binary files on your text search engine.

            Ok, maybe not evil, but not very helpful either. Many people claim that Google is the best search engine. What this story tends to indicate is that Yahoo beats it handily if you happen to be searching for MP3s. That means Google is either purposely screwin

      • That has nothing to do with mp3, it has to do with Google not able to get good results anymore in general.
      • Those seeking free music use a combination of Google and file hosting services like Rapidshare. Go to Google and type the title of the album in quotes, followed by 'rapidshare.de/files' and bingo. Most of the time the result returns at least one link to a rar file containing the album you searched for.

        Works with movies too.

        Not that one should ever condone such a thing :)

      • Re:I'm sure... (Score:4, Informative)

        by jambarama (784670) <jambarama@NOspaM.gmail.com> on Tuesday July 04 2006, @04:09PM (#15657422) Homepage Journal
        You can still find anything on google, it just takes a little more know-how. For example, add this string to your search intitle:index.of +"mp3" -htm -html -php -asp "Last Modified". Just add the band or song in quotes and you'll be amazed at how much more accurate it'll make an mp3 search. For example - a search for Gorillaz & Feel Good Inc [google.com] turns up quite a few copies of the MP3. The filetype:mp3 command works well too.

        The same goes for any filetype. Google is doing well at giving copyrighted materials low rankings, their livelihood depends on it, but as long as they index everything, everything is available.

    • Re:I'm sure... (Score:5, Informative)

      by snafu109 (852770) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @08:16AM (#15655781)
      From another article [bloomberg.com]:

      The federation is also considering using a new Chinese law that came into effect July 1 that fines distributors of illegally copied music, movies and other material over the Internet as much as 100,000 yuan ($12,500). As of today, Chinese search engines operated by Yahoo China and Baidu.com provide links to other Web sites hosting illegally copied songs.

      The law says a Web site is jointly liable with the host of the pirated files for infringement ``if it knows or should know that the work, performance or sound or video recording linked to was infringing.''

      Apparently there is no such law in Western countries.

      • The law says a Web site is jointly liable with the host of the pirated files for infringement ``if it knows or should know that the work, performance or sound or video recording linked to was infringing.''

        Who decides what the website should know? If you link to a website with a bunch of mp3's called My_Talk1.mp3, My_Talk2.mp3, .... , My_Talk20.mp3 and it turns out My_Talk5.mp3 is a Madonna track, can you be prosecuted because you should have checked? Who draws the line and where?

        Seems like you could e

      • Apparently there is no such law in Western countries.

        For good reason, but there's a lot of interest here in the U.S. to try and end that immunity. Of course, if they do succeed in making engines responsible for linked content it will simply end search engines, which wouldn't bother some people one bit. China's government is in the unenviable position of wanting all the benefits of free flow of information provided by search without the perceived liabilities. What's unfortunate is that their perceptions o
    • Because the are the largest, and are prone to cave into demands from other people perhaps?

      Im sure that if they win this, and get some $ of it, they will start going after smaller fish ( that still have an international presence )

    • Re:I'm sure... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by c (8461) <beauregardcp@gmail.com> on Tuesday July 04 2006, @08:30AM (#15655829)

      Why does Yahoo China get the can for this?

      Because Yahoo China has demonstrated that they're able and willing to filter search results, pass off user account information to anyone who asks, and generally behave like asshats. Which means they totally lose the "we're just an innocent little search engine, we can't filter our output, it'd be a major hardship" common-carrier type of defense.

      That's probably not the reason, but it would be about what they deserve...

      c.

    • Just to play devil's advocate...

      If Yahoo China can supress results based on edicts from the "mean old Chinese government," perhaps the music industry is going to say "Well now, you clealy CAN filter the results if you want to or are forced to. We want you to filter out links to illgotten content that we own. If you don't, you're contributing to the problem and have some liability."

      That's the flip side of caving in to search engine filtering. The slope is quite slippery....
    • Behold the power of the copyright infringing search engine called GOOGLE [google.com]

      My question is, isnt Yahoo! USA the same company as Yahoo! China? cant they "provide" their lawyers force?

  • this is getting silly (Score:5, Insightful)

    by joe 155 (937621) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @07:57AM (#15655733) Journal
    you can't go sueing search engines because they contain links to links of pirated mp3s... thats just what a search engine does... it seems the only way to avoid this would be to manually go through every web page, download all the mp3s that you can get to and check that they are not pirated... of course if the were you'd get sued anyway...

    • Re:this is getting silly (Score:5, Funny)

      by Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @08:06AM (#15655752)
      you can't go sueing search engines because they contain links to links of pirated mp3s... thats just what a search engine does... it seems the only way to avoid this would be to manually go through every web page, download all the mp3s that you can get to and check that they are not pirated...

      What's wrong with that? If it saves the life of one innocent child, isn't it worth it? We must do our patriotic duty to make sure there are no links to links to links and especialy no circular links to pirated materials anywhere on the net. Do your part good citizen and help to assure that the children of RIAA executives are assured a bright future!

      • Stick with the agreed hype, please (Score:5, Funny)

        by Opportunist (166417) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @08:15AM (#15655777)
        It's "war against Communist Pirating China" this time, not "think of the children". Don't switch hypes too much, please, people might catch on.
        • Actually, it's the "War on Terror." It seems that illegal free pirated mp3s are a huge source of funding for terrorists. Remember, every time you get an mp3 off of gnutella, it funds terrorism in Iraq (the only place in the world with terrorists right now, thanks to our clever plan to lure them all there and distract them).
        • But the US is free*!


          * Some restriction apply. Does not include surcharges or related expenses. Only applicable 3 days per week. Government may alter agreement without notice. Not suitable for children under 12.

  • The "Land of the Free" (Score:4, Funny)

    by KiloByte (825081) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @07:57AM (#15655734)
    I really didn't expect we'll live until the days when an evil totalitarian regime will be in some regards better than the US.

    On the other hand, it may be a good idea to attach a generator to G. Washington's, T. Jefferson's and co coffins. Just think of the free energy!

    • I really didn't expect we'll live until the days when an evil totalitarian regime will be in some regards better than the US.

      People have been making excuses for evil totalitarian regimes (attempting to prove that they are better in at least some respects) since time immemorial. Stop me if you've heard some of these before: "at least they make the trains run on time," "at least they provide free health-care," "at least they provide free education," "there is no famine over there [wikipedia.org]," "the people seem to enjoy

  • In other news (Score:5, Interesting)

    by giorgiofr (887762) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @08:00AM (#15655740)
    Search engines can be used to search for possibly illegal stuff.
    Mail can be used to send possibly illegal objects.
    Roads can be used to go to some possibily illegal destination.
    Weapons can be used to kill someone, possibly in an illegal way.
    Phones can be used to call someone and say possibily illegal things.

    Unless we want to take care of all the above mentioned "problems", I don't see why we should be concerned with search engines and specifically single them out.
    Oh wait, they have lotsa money. Now I understand.
  • "Yahoo China found mp3 files of recent releases for direct download within a few clicks."

    How's this different from any other search engine [google.co.uk] (try the 3rd link and 1 more click!)?? Why aren't other search engines being sued?

    Haydn.
    • Because they already failed in every western court trying to do this.
      Now they can gamble in Chinese court and, who knows, they might even win!
    • How's this different from any other search engine (try the 3rd link and 1 more click!)??

      Maybe you were more persistent than me, but all I saw at your link was a bunch of spam, dead links and promises of free dowloads, but no actual MP3 files. I'm sure they can be found, but the SEO scumbags have done a good job of making it hard to find.

  • It contains references to piracy, how it is done, and where it is done ? They should be sued outright !

    America shouldnt let morons to be president of anything, neither the country, nor corporations or organisations.
  • I was looking for a pdb (ebook) of snowcrash recently and whilst its getting harder to find things using google, yahoo came up with results for it.

    Now this just isn't right, can I sue google for NOT finding the things I'm looking for?

    Speaking of lawsuits for stupid things, can I sue yahoo myself for their stupid new frontpage?

    I thought the slash redesign was a bit wonky, but the yahoo one actually does make my eyes bleed, it keeps sliding downwards under some java shit which makes me feel sick. Anyway, I'v
  • Miguel de Cervantes will be happy to see that his Don Quixote de la Mancha is alive and well, albeit in Britain...

    But who's playing Sancho Panza? Tony Blair?

  • Liberty out of China? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Opportunist (166417) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @08:18AM (#15655789)
    Ya know, the world's turned upside down when China is sued by a "free world" organisation for having too much liberty on something...

    • Ya know, the world's turned upside down when China is sued by a "free world" organisation for having too much liberty on something...

      Fair enough, but consider this: any issue can be framed in terms of liberty. For example, you could say that white Americans no longer have the "liberty" to own other Americans (black), or that Germans no longer have the "liberty" to kill Jews with impunity; however, it is not entirely intellectually honest to do so. China will eventually enforce I.P. laws; the only question

      • Umm... then maybe it's time for the US to actually produce stuff with the IP they have instead of relying on the export of it? A system based on immaterial values can't survive for long. For reference, check the Soviet system.

      • has worthwhile I.P. to protect

        Meaningless. All things can be labelled "property" and made valuable by defining the rules appropriately.

        The government could say I have the right to charge anybody who has a shit. That would be a very valuable intellectual property indeed. Doesn't mean that it's desirable or of net benefit to society to organise the rules that way.

        The same reasoning applies to the USA exporting "their" "intellectual property". If the rest of the world decides the USA's fanatical view o

      • Unfortunately true. Free market relies on the ability of the manufacturer to produce what they want and the customer to decide which of those products are fit for the market. That's how it worked. IP does simply not fit into the perfect free market, as soon as IP limits the offering side (by disallowing to produce what someone else holds IP over), the competition dwindles and the customer is unable to fulfill his role as the deciding factor, since he cannot choose between different offering companies.

        What c

  • How this is different from other search engines (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 04 2006, @08:21AM (#15655797)
    Yahoo China differs from other search engines (and from other Yahoo editions) by offering a quite comprehensive MP3 search with direct download links at http://music.yahoo.com.cn/ [yahoo.com.cn]

    Examples?
    http://music.yahoo.com.cn/search.html?pid=ysearch& source=ysearch_music_result_topsearch&p=nelly+furt ado&mimetype=all [yahoo.com.cn]
    http://music.yahoo.com.cn/search.html?pid=ysearch& source=ysearch_music_result_topsearch&p=shakira&mi metype=all [yahoo.com.cn]

  • Unbelievable (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Linux_ho (205887) on Tuesday July 04 2006, @08:40AM (#15655860) Homepage
    "Yahoo just helped us find like a dozen music pirates in about ten minutes. Thanks, Yahoo! Oh hey, it's kinda tricky to track down these international guys. Bad Yahoo! Bad Bad Yahoo!" If all the search engines colluded with illegal content distributors by hiding their stashes, these morons (and law enforcement) would have to write their own search engines to find them.

  • I mean...thanks for the advertisement!

    Actually, as it turns out, it doesn't look to be any better than the western counterpart. Then again, maybe all those sites I couldn't read were full of songs, but I doubt it.

  • ... to be proactive in protecting other people's copyrights? Especially considering that they don't host the content? What a disturbin precedent.
  • Here a snippet of code and if you use it, here is an example: of the result when entering a random name: Metallica as a tryout [google.co.uk]

    <script language="javascript">
    function doSearch() {
    document.all.searchg.q.value = '"' + document.all.searchg.q_.value + '" intitle:index.of mp3 -html -htm -php -asp -txt -pls';
    return true;
    }
    </script>

    <form onsubmit="return(doSearch());" name="searchg" method="get" action="http://www.google.co.uk/search" target="_top"

  • OK, so they can easily search out sites with warez MP3's. With the exemption of sites like the pirate bay, wouldn't this make it easier (with government co-operation) to shut down said sites... at least a bit easier than tracking down P2P users with dynamic IP's. I suppose that there is likely little co-operation from the Chinese gov't on Chinese sites, but I had heard previously that there had shut down a few users here and there already.
  • Kim Jong Il: IFPI? Oh no! Oh, herro. Great to see you again, IFPI!
    IFPI: Mr. Il, I was supposed to be allowed to inspect your palace today, but your guards won't let me enter certain areas.
    Kim Jong Il: IFPI, IFPI, IFPI! We've been frew this a dozen times. I don't have any pirated music, OK IFPI?
    IFPI: Then let me look around, so I can ease the IFPI's collective mind. I'm sorry, but the IFPI must be firm with you. Let me in, or else.
    Kim Jong Il: Or else what?
    IFPI: Or else we will be very angry with you... and
    • The parent links to a warning from Yahoo to click at your own risk, the link from Yahoo links to something with a GNAA logo and attempts to install shit on your computer.
    • Why bother? they have found a great model for keeping themselves relevant: Have the laws rewritten globally so that everyone becomes a criminal or is assisting in criminal activity. Sue anything that moves. Demonize anyone that opposes you and start massive PR campaigns to convince society that you are right, eventhough it makes everyone else a criminal.

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