Update on Xara's OS Vector Graphics Project

An anonymous reader writes "We first heard from Xara when they announced their plan to release their crown jewels, the Xara X source code under GPL. Now, 5 scant months since going Open Source, Xara has released Xara Xtreme Linux 0.7, a very functional, robust illustration program. What this means for the Linux Desktop is significant: a true professional grade graphics package. And for a glimpse at what Xara can do, you owe it to yourself to see the new Xara Xtreme Linux Screenshot gallery with amazing, unbelievable vector graphic art."

A few replies so far...

[gardyloo (512791)]

... and the server seems to be showing a very impressive vector graphic of a blank page. What great rendering!

Re:A few replies so far...

[Tackhead (54550)]

> ... and the server seems to be showing a very impressive vector graphic of a blank page. What great rendering!

The font in which "503 - Connection failed" is rendered happens to be vectorized. Does that count?

Re:A few replies so far...

[cortana (588495)]

I'm still using the X11 core font subsystem, you insensitive clod!

Better than Illustrator and Freehand?

[Optic7 (688717)]

I haven't used Xara extreme yet, but I have seen artists say that it's better than Adobe Illustrator and Macromedia Freehand (which is what this software competes with) in terms of performance, (some?) features, and ease of use. Sounds like a great new software in Linux' arsenal.

Re:

[BiggyP (466507)]

I've given it a quick prod and i'm reasonably impressed, though the lack of a usable SVG filter makes it fairly useless to me at the moment. The thing that intrigues me most is what, if anything, other FOSS graphics project are going to make of all this newly opened code.

One other thing, I see that Xara Xtreme will only be available for free on Linux, OSX and Windows users will have to continue to pay a, albeit small, fee to use it. What's going to happen when someone takes this app, designed from the start

Re:

[BiggerIsBetter (682164)]

Indeed. If their rendering code is significantly faster than Cairo (as their performance page seems to suggest), maybe some Xara technology will make its way into the mainstream Linux desktop?

I guess Xara will get some benefits from going OSS, but I'm not sure what yet. Perhaps they can release their enhanced/professional version under a different license. As an example, I'm running StarOffice 8, on Novell SLED 10, with ATI binary drivers for XGL support. Yes, there are free alternatives, but this system do

A short history of the technology:

[wild_berry (448019)]

Xara Software used to be the UK's Computer Concepts who produced Impression DTP software and Artworks vector graphics package in the early nineties for the Acorn 32-bit computer range (The Acorn who created the ARM chip and spun off the IP to create the ARM company). Artworks [wikipedia.org] as ported to Win32 and performed 5x faster using its own redraw routines than Corel Draw using Windows' GDI. That port of Artworks was licensed and sold by Corel as Corel Xara. I'm not surprised that they have good rendering code

Re:

[remi de (997740)]

Perhaps, this information is useful for you: There was a discussion about the question if Xara's Rendering Engine could be useful in other projects together with a statement of the CIO of Xara Ltd: http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=22409 &page=2 [talkgraphics.com]. Furthermore there was a discussion, if it's possible to build Xara's Rendering Engine in the Linux kernel as a new graphics engine: http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?p=16158 2#post161582 [talkgraphics.com]. - Remi

Re:

[Optic7 (688717)]

I wasn't clear enough in my original post. Yes, I was referring to having heard artists say that the existing Windows version of Xara extreme (X?) was better than illustrator and freehand. I heard this months ago before the open source version was even announced. Being that you are the second post pointing this out, I figured I would clarify it. Thanks.

Re:

[Optic7 (688717)]

I thought you were replying to my original post, instead of the flamebait post that was hidden from view. Doh! New Slashdot design! Thanks again.

coral to the rescue

[by Anonymous Coward]

here's working coral cache

http://www.xaraxtreme.org.nyud.net:8090/screenshot s.html [nyud.net]

Re:

[jdray (645332)]

It doesn't seem to be working right now.

Call me when it does SVG

[gbulmash (688770)]

Just tried the Windoze version for a quickie look at features. No SVG support. As more of the OSS community and others start to create and deliver vector graphics in SVG (check out all the SVGs in Wikimedia Commons or OpenClipart.org), any illustration program without it will gradually lose its user base. It's not that SVG is so wonderful, but it's becoming a necessary tool to have in your arsenal.

Re:

[ahg (134088)]

I haven't had a chance to try it yet... but does it do Postscript/EPS? While SVG may be the OSS choice of format, and may be great for web use too - If OSS wants to make it in the professional graphics & publishing world, it really needs to compete on Adobe's turf where Postscript still reigns supreme. I'd rather see Postscript today, and SVG support to follow than the other way around. (The OSS community is also more likely to find contributors to do SVG support than Postscript... it's the itch more

Re:

[Tet (2721)]

does it do Postscript/EPS?

It exports to EPSF, but can't import from it.

Re:Call me when it does SVG

[fuxoft (161836)]

Well, if you'd tried the Linux version, you'd find out it DOES support SVG... It's still in early stages but they are working on full support and new builds are published daily...

Re:Call me when it does SVG

[gbulmash (688770)]

"Well, if you'd tried the Linux version, you'd find out it DOES support SVG... It's still in early stages"... Yeah, and my best friend could put on silk panties and tell me he was in the early stages of a sex change, but it doesn't mean I'd want to kiss him.

- Greg

Re:Call me when it does SVG

[aztektum (170569)]

You failed to rule out kissing your best friend once the operation is complete, however.

Re:

[Zero__Kelvin (151819)]

"Yeah, and my best friend could put on silk panties and tell me he was in the early stages of a sex change, but it doesn't mean I'd want to kiss him."

... but be honest; you know damn well you'd be all over him the minute he took the panties off 8-)

Re:

[vhogemann (797994)]

I've read that Xara is in contact with the Inkscape team, so I guess that we'll see SVG capabilities on Xara Xtreme soon. A quick look at the project roadmap shows that a SVG import/export filter is planned.

Full opensource ?

[yupa (751893)]

IIRC the core of Xara Xtreme were put on some binary only libs. Did these libraries were released in a opensource license in new version ?

Re:Full opensource ?

[Tet (2721)]

IIRC the core of Xara Xtreme were put on some binary only libs.

Kind of. There are two renderers. They've open sourced the slower one, and are keeping the faster one closed, for now, at least. The software is fully functional, but it's slower than the closed source version (although still fast enough -- it's comparable to inkscape for the things for which I've been using it.

FWIW, I'm using 0.7 right now, and it's very impressive. There are still a few graphical glitches, and some things that I find easier to do in inkscape/sodipodi. Conversely, there are some things that I can do in Xara that are all but impossible in inkscape. Feathered variable transparency rocks my world. I think it's great that we have both options. Each have their strengths and weaknesses, and I use both for my projects.

The Google cache ...

[ClickOnThis (137803)]

... is right here [72.14.203.104] and still appears to be building. But at least it's not on fire.

Needless hype

[thisisauniqueid (825395)]

"An anonymous reader" writes: ...crown jewels...5 scant months...a very functional, robust illustration program...a true professional grade graphics package...you owe it to yourself to see the new Xara Xtreme Linux Screenshot gallery...with amazing, unbelievable vector graphic art

Could "An anonymous reader" possibly be Xara?

Check out the source code, this thing is a monolith. I think I'm sticking to Inkscape for now, though I wish the Xara team the best of luck, and it was a nice gesture to release the source code under the GPL.

Slashdotted?

[smartdreamer (666870)]

Good to see ./ has still is "magic touch". It's been a while since we slashdotted.

No Cache?

[Mattwolf7 (633112)]

Useless without article... Didn't even make it past 10 comments, site down, mirrordot down, coral cache down, and google cache down...

Looks interesting

[also-rr (980579)]

Wikipedia has more [wikipedia.org] on Xara (of course).

I'm a huge fan of vector drawing, even to the point of using Inkscape to animate stuff [revis.co.uk]. I can't wait to try this out, especially if it has better support for frame generation.

Re:

[also-rr (980579)]

There is also Synfig (link to screenshot) [synfig.com] for Linux/OS X which is a vector package aimed at animators. I haven't come accross it before, although it was linked frm the Slashdot article, so I'll be back with a review in, uh, 12-20 hours. Pass the jolt please :)

I owe it to myself...

[rewt66 (738525)]

But unfortunately, the server doesn't owe it to me.

mmmm screenshots.. slashdot..

[nurb432 (527695)]

*Poof*

Anyone got mirrors?

Based on wxWidgets == more than Linux

[by Anonymous Coward]

I'm probably going to make the server burn a little more by piquing Mac user interest in addition to Linux, but, as gleaned from the google cache of the text [72.14.203.104] (the images are still roiling in flames on a server somewhere), they are using wxWidgets [wikipedia.org], and they say they're looking for developers and testers for Mac OS too. I guess a port there is not far off. Presumably other platforms are possible too.

bitmap tracer

[codepunk (167897)]

Does it have a bitmap tracer and if so how good is it. I do tons of manual vector tracing since all or most suck badly.

Re:

[queenb**ch (446380)]

Adobe's pretty much screwed Illustrator. Then they bought Macromedia and tanked Freehand. It's good to see the OS community stepping into fill the gap.

2 cents,

QueenB

Re:

[isolationism (782170)]

It's good for creating a stylised sort of look to stuff but there will never be a 100% solution to replacing manual tracing: Software just isn't good enough, it seems, to do the job as well as a human can.

That said, the best software I've ever used for doing traces is Adobe Streamline, but that product seems to be abandoned (maybe it's part of Illustrator now? I don't know) and that's not saying much. I can usually trace out/recreate wordmarks and logotype etc. faster than I can get a tracing program to

Re:

[njh (24312)]

Have you used the tracing built into inkscape?

Pity about the server ...

[isolationism (782170)]

... But they're a relatively small shop, which is probably the only reason they're having anything to do with Linux at all (trying to get leverage in a growing niche market). I'm sure they like the press regardless, but I'm guessing nobody's in the office now that it's nearly midnight in Britain.

I am doubtless one of the reasons that Xara LX exists at all -- I wrote their product manager a couple years ago to state I intended to switch to Linux, and would really love it if their product could at least run under WINE; at the time they said they had no intentions on working on a Linux version in the future and that "Linux users seem to expect everything for free". That they are upping the ante and actually making a Linux version that is indeed free is puzzling, but I'm not complaining: I've bought every revision of the software since 1.0 back in the 90s and still prefer it to Inkscape, Illustrator, and all the other competitors on the block.

My only beefs, if I could be said to have any:

• Inkscape has more intelligent handling of shapes. For example, the corner radius of a rounded corner is preserved once a shape is resized; in Xara it changes proportional to the altered dimensions from the original shape. Yuck.
• Inkscape also has a kick-ass calligraphy tool, which isn't useless -- I've already used it to design a product logo for a very real product of a relatively large company. No other vector-based tool for calligraphy comes close.
• I dearly, sorely wish that Xara would figure out how to get SVG support into Xara. It's a glaring omission that isn't going to fly with the Linux crowd. At all. And it's annoying not to have it in Windows, either. Strangely enough, SVG support was one of the excuses I was given by Xara's product manager for not making a Linux version of Xara (e.g. SVG had priority). I wonder how that's shifted now, and if SVG support is still on the agenda, and for which version(s) of their software.
• Finally, I know that Xara had earlier pledged to support another open-source application named UberConverter [scratchcomputing.com] which was supposed to be the Rosetta stone to format interoperability. According to the status page, "xar" file read and write capability is there (at least for the LX format) -- so when is the result going to be integrated directly into Xara?

All told, though, I am grateful to Xara for their decision -- and to all the developers who have contributed to the success of the project. If I could code my way out of a proverbial wet paper bag I would have helped by now, but unfortunately I am one of those individuals who is happy to use Xara's products without having the faintest idea of how to make them (or make them better, in this case).

Re:Pity about the server ...

[Tim Browse (9263)]

I dearly, sorely wish that Xara would figure out how to get SVG support into Xara. It's a glaring omission that isn't going to fly with the Linux crowd. At all. And it's annoying not to have it in Windows, either. Strangely enough, SVG support was one of the excuses I was given by Xara's product manager for not making a Linux version of Xara (e.g. SVG had priority). I wonder how that's shifted now, and if SVG support is still on the agenda, and for which version(s) of their software.

Well, it's a tricky thing, because Xara does some rampant* things with vectors, that are often hard to reproduce in other formats. Speaking as the person who designed the original file format filter (import/export) system, I'd have to say that writing a basic SVG exporter isn't hard, and would cover a lot of cases. However, it wouldn't cope with some of the fancier features very well (or at all) - handling everything properly is a lot of work. And producing something that 'kind of' works results in a poor user experience, which is something Xara (the company and product) tries to avoid.

But it would be nice to have a basic exporter for people who want SVG, as I still find Xara the easiest program to use for knocking up diagrams and illustrations (I admit I may be susceptible to some bias here). I still remember trying Visio (when it first came out!) to produce some architecture diagrams for Xara, and wishing that I had a good diagram/illustration package to use for the purpose (talk about catch-22). I try Visio every couple of years, but the UI is still akin to being poked in the eye with a sharp yacht.

* I use the word advisedly, as any of the original Xara developers will know :-)

Re:

[kimvette (919543)]

I just downloaded and installed it (Gotta love Autopackage, Linux is becoming downright easy to the point where many things are easier than Windows!) and I have to say after playing with it for two minutes: this program is incredible. Who needs Inkscape? In dealing with layers, Inkscape is an exercise in futility, and there is far less control in exporting to specific bitmap sizes than I am used to in Adobe apps.

Like Inkscape, Gimp, Krita, and other OSS programs, it is missing layer effects (a huge benefit

Xara LX is indeed pretty nice ...

[isolationism (782170)]

... And frankly, much of what makes it so nice to work with has been around since version 1.0. There are too many features to list out, but just a few of the things I love about it:

• Unlike the big guy out there, Xara can actually export a bitmap of exactly what you see on the screen. Not something similar, not something pretty close: exactly what is there, pixel for pixel. Why Illustrator still can't do this is utterly beyond me; Xara has been doing it since version 1.0.
• Ever have a drawing that needed g

Fedora Extras

[macemoneta (154740)]

For Fedora folks, XaraLX and XaraLX-examples are in the Extras repository, which is enabled by default. Just:

yum -y install XaraLX and XaraLX-examples

Debian debs

[51mon (566265)]

As no one with Debian uses it, or looks in it, but XaraLX is in "non-free" for Etch and Sid. Looks like the maintainer upgraded it to 0.7 in Sid, Etch is 0.6 currently.

Superb GUI

[wysiwia (932559)]

As others already have mentioned Xara has a superb GUI and is easy usable. This is due the fact that Xara tries to be wyoGuide conformant (see http://wyoguide.sf.net/projectlist.php [sf.net]).

O. Wyss

Re:pics mirror?

[pair-a-noyd (594371)]

KWouldK KyouK KratherK KitK KhaveK KaK KonK KeveryK KwordK K?K mmmK?

Re:pics mirror?

[TheDreadSlashdotterD (966361)]

GNo.

Re:pics mirror?

[SoCalChris (573049)]

You iDiot, we've patented preceding words with a letter. Sincerely, Apple

Re:pics mirror?

[fatgav (555629)]

But Xara is more than 10 years old, it was the name given in 1995 to the PC orientated side of Computer Concepts, an Acorn orientated company started in 1981. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xara [wikipedia.org]

Re:

[DittoBox (978894)]

GDI+ and Quartz are rendering APIs, not vector art programs. *nix has had Cairo for a couple of years and X has been around longer than Quartz or GDI/+.

Re:

[Overly Critical Guy (663429)]

GDI+ and Quartz are vector APIs. X has nothing to do with that, and Cairo still isn't production quality.

Re:

[jcupitt65 (68879)]

Cairo has been rendering GNOME for over a year. The software renderer is a bit slow on linux, but it works fine. I was hoping there might br some way to ue the Xara renderer to speed it up, but it doesn't look like that's possible yet.

X does have a vector API, just not a very good one :)

Inkscape and Xara are comrades

[ishmalius (153450)]

"Xara vs Inkscape" is a silly notion. I have been a member of the Inkscape project for years now; since before it began. We have recently started collaborating with the Xara guys. Inkscape and Xara have a wonderful relationship. There is no "vs." We are basically attacking the problem from different angles, that's all.