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Cisco VoIP Ditched for Open-Source Asterisk
Posted by
Zonk
on Sat Sep 16, 2006 06:16 AM
from the more-power-to-ya dept.
from the more-power-to-ya dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Sam Houston State University (SHSU) is moving 6,000 users off a Cisco VoIP platform to an open-source VoIP network based on Asterisk. One big driver, of course, is cost. From the article: 'We thought that it will be more cost effective in the long run to go with an open source solution, because of the massive amounts of licensing fees required to keep the Cisco CallManager network up and running,' says Aaron Daniel, senior voice analyst at SHSU."
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Ask Slashdot: Which Asterisk Or Other VoIP System To Deploy? 91 comments
ubercombatwombat is looking for a bit of advice: "On the 9th of November, I have a meeting to discuss an Asterisk based phone system for a new elementary school. I am the network admin for the district. Currently, we are migrating from a T-1 based Nortel (option 61, 2 x option 11 and 7 x Norstar 8x32's, for those who care) to 1GB data fiber and a 2nd pair per site — to allow simple copper-to-fiber for the split T-1/Norstar's. We also just got a 10MB (scalable to 100MB) connect to the Internet. I can keep the VoIP basically on a separate network if need be as well.
What do I install? Are there Asterisk vendors that are available and have enough experience?"
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On the subject of Asterisk (Score:5, Interesting)
I've just released FreePBX 2.1.2, which is a major security upgrade from 2.1.1. Not really relevant to this article, except that they both deal with Asterisk.
(For those that don't know, FreePBX is the only open source GUI for configuration and management of Asterisk. www.freepbx.org [freepbx.org])
--RobRe: (Score:2)
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I'd love for someone with some gentoo clues to help out!
--Rob
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SCCP support? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:SCCP support? (Score:5, Informative)
--Rob
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A professional look, sure -- but the bloody things crash constantly if they don't like the network they're plugged into, their autoprovisioning is cranky at best, and our order (of about 20) had a very substantial number of duds (we RMA'd at least 3). Also, their speakerphone support doesn't work well -- IIRC, the folks on the remote end hear massive amounts of echo (though it sounds fine locally). I'd call the Sipura SPA-841 a reasonable step up
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They did, however, get the speakerphone echo well sorted out a while ago. The snoms, on the other hand, do _not_ have echo cancellation in their speakerphone, which means it can't be all that loud. Which leads to user complaints 8-\ However, apart from that minor niggl
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I have trouble believing that -- our single Snom 360 sounds as good as the (POTS) polycom units when on speakerphone, and we certainly don't run it quiet. Looking through their release notes, it says they added echo cancellation as of firmware version 3.60b. I don't see any complaints about lack of echo cancellation at http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/snom+360 [voip-info.org].
I haven't had a chance t
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--Rob
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Asterisk really is best bang/buck (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Asterisk really is best bang/buck (Score:4, Informative)
OpenPBX.org (nothing to do with my FreePBX project, mentioned above) is a pure GPL fork of asterisk from about a year ago, that they've done significant amounts of re-writing on, including working on a new dialplan language, as well as being able to import a lot of Steve Underwoods work (www.soft-switch.org) with software DSP (eg, soft-faxing, T.38 [fax-over-IP], better DTMF detection) that he will only licence under the pure GPL.
--Rob
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Not that I particularly like this practice. But wouldn't pretty much any project with a dual license strategy where one is non-free need to do this?
Anyone know what mysql and trolltech do?
all the best,
drew
http://www.nanowrimo.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.p hp?topic_id=33654&forum=157 [nanowrimo.org]
Coming to IRC this November - live novel writing...
Re:Asterisk really is best bang/buck (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Asterisk really is best bang/buck (Score:5, Informative)
My point being: yes, Asterisk is "100%" F/OSS. They just don't allow other copyleft holders in THEIR distribution. Nothing would prevent OpenPBX, to sync with each latest version of Asterisk, but as long as Digium wants to hold all copylefts, they can't include code made by OpenPBX folks. Digium wanting to hold all copylefts is a part of their business model (dual-licensing). Of course, it makes it harder for OpenPBX people to sync because of the two development trees (and I understand why they'd want to keep their copyleft). However, Asterisk remains Free Software. Maybe they're not using the "Open Source development model" at its maximum though, but who cares
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I tend to think that they're a bit over-protective of their code. They release it as GPL to garner community support, th
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And OpenSSL isn't under the Apache Software Lic
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--Rob
Asterisk versus CCM features (Score:5, Insightful)
From the article:
"While Asterisk and the SIP protocol lack some of the more extensive features on the Cisco CallManager..."
This may be true for vanilla Asterisk, but there is an extensive community adding a wide range of additional features and services to Asterisk. For example, <plug>our Enswitch product [integrics.com]</plug> provides a layer of billing and commercial services on top of Asterisk and SIP Express Router. Having work extensively with both Asterisk and CCM, I would claim that with Asterisk plus all the applications that work with it already surpasses the features of CCM, and Asterisk has the momentum behind it. Over the next few years, CCM will fall further behind, and before long Asterisk will be the dominant telephony platform in the same way Apache is the dominant web server platform now.
Asterisk in the workplace (Score:3, Interesting)
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In other words you mean it is not intuitive to use, and will take a while to learn to use. It doesn't seem like a good project for a company to start on its own if it isn't its core business.
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Unversites are overrated. (Score:4, Insightful)
Universities have cheap skilled labor. A slew of talented kids/young adults who are willing towork for free or near minimum wage, but when they leave to the real world they will be demanding $35,000 and up a year for the same job. This is the reason why many Open Source projects work and save money in Universities but when a Corporation gets it, it becomes a money pot. Because for a company it is cheaper to call Cisco and pay them $1000 for a fix to their problems then having a team of 10 people at your company taking a day to fix the problem because they do not have the answer sitting right in front of them or able to contact the engineer who created it. vs. a University where this 10 people 8 bucks an hour are much cheaper then calling Cisco for help.
Universities are allowed to experiment almost by charter. If something goes wrong this screw all the people who are not getting phone service. You will have wait until we fix the problem, it is not like we are loosing money with the phones down for a couple of hours. Private companies loose money when their communication are done so they want Cisco to come and fix it right away and they better know what they are doing. Being an Education facility it is allowed to experiment in different products while Companies find better value in using what they know works.
Liberal University vs. Conservative Corporations, basically means if it not exactly what we want we keep on trying and trying until we get it right (perhaps making it worse in the process) or If it does what we need we hold on to it until we find the perfect solution (which guarantees that they are going to use a product they don't like for a long time)
This is why Open Source is popular in Universities but in Corporate and government use they need to work a little harder to get acceptance.
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Asterisk needs improvement. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Asterisk needs improvement. (Score:4, Informative)
I just did a quick search of the Digium bugtracker, and I didn't see any 'SIP Incompatibilty' bugs there apart from an issue with sipgate.de.
I honestly think you're trolling, or you have no concept of how FOSS works. If there's a bug, you fix it, and if you can't fix it, you report it and someone who can fix it, will.
--Rob
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No PCWorld? (Score:2)
Spoofing Caller ID never gets old (Score:2)
Why do they price themselves out of the market? (Score:3, Interesting)
They must make their money from licencing fees (and maintenance, but FOSS can do that, too). So why don't customers choose the cheaper option. Don't get me wrong; while I approve of FOSS and use it whenever I can, I won't hestitate to buy a proprietary product if it does what I need and there isn't a viable FOSS alternative.
I'm no expert in this - which is why I'm puzzled. Can anyone tell me (us) why? Is it any combination of the following?
1. "Noone was ever fired for buying IBM" (MS/Cisco/etc).
2. The bells and whistles are what the buyer craves.
3. Proprietary products have better support.
4. It's free, so it can't be worth anything.
5. What's FOSS?
6. We only run Windows (Solaris, whatever).
7. Proprietary products are better "rounded" or "easier to use".
I know that all these have flaws and, sometimes the reason is valid. But overall, I think my question still stands.
BTW. If anyone can think of anything to add to the list - I'd love to hear it.
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It's the support. Company A spends a large amount of money buying (say, Microsoft/Cisco/whatever) and at the same time takes out an expensive support contract. Company B uses FOSS.
Something goes wrong. Company A gets on the phone, and they have an engineer on-site within the hour, and the problem is fixed within 3 hours. Total cost? Loss of 3 hours business + SLA payouts.
Company B runs around for a bit trying to figure out what the hell it might have been, before flash-hiring a bunch of software consult
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One more reason I have observed is that people get used to a particular platform. More often than not, a commercial vendor enters a market first, or even creates the market. So people start using that vendor's products and then it becomes difficult for them to switch and learn something new. Many are satisfied if something just simply works, and they don't want change. In this SIP case, they probably purchase the hardware and software as a bundle.
This
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You can use cisco phones with asterisk, i`m using a 7960 at home with multiple asterisk servers (the 7960 has support for 6 "lines"), and the vlan trunking works on it, although i don't use it at home...
Many of the Nortel phones support trunking too, tho i can't speak for any of the other vendors.
In terms of the backend, linux will also support trunking if you need such a facility on the backend.
Another open source alternative (Score:2)
Asterisk? (Score:3, Informative)
But has anyone looked at Asterisk close enough? It's the most horrid piece of software I have seen in a long time. Its configuration is awkward at best and downright inconsistent and nonsensical at worst.
Its documentation is practially non-existent. Nowhere do you find a good documentation written by the programmers. All you have are Wikis and web sites where people try and guess how Asterisk works. Howtos consist of config snippets without explaining what the options mean, let alone explaining the grand scheme behind everything.
Maybe it works after you configured it based on some other guy's experience, but if you want clean and well-documented software, go look elsewhere.
Asterisk seems to be the PHP or MySQL of the PBX world.
</rant>
Freeloaders or open source pioneers ? (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, I know Asterix fairly well, Cisco fairly well, open source VoIP fairly well (as the joke goes I wrote the O'Reilly book), and SIP really really well. As was pointed out in Mark Spencer's Keynote at VON last week, the SIP stack in Asterix certainly has some room for improvement. And given SHSU does not seem to have any intention to support the development of Asterix by buying a support contract from Digium, I sure hope they are doing something to make sure that Asterix get the support that they will need it to have to stay relevant.
asterisk kills call manager (Score:3, Insightful)
Asterisk-based 200 wireless/wired phone deployment (Score:5, Informative)
1. Pick a capable vendor for each job you outsource. I looked at Asterisk and decided it is too technical for a Asterisk newbie to build a production system, so I called Digium and they referred me to a dCAP certified Asterisk consultant in my area. Knowing Asterisk is one thing, but knowing how to pull off a great install is more than that. Our vendor developed a workbook that covers many parts of a successful deployment, such as reviewing the network (gear, configs, wiring plant), getting the users (names, current extentions, locations .
2. Pilot your install before you deploy it. The environment I was choosing Asterisk for is an automall. Phones are a big part of the business (as with many) and setting expectations is important. We formed a phone users group to have them decide how we wanted to route calls (dial plan), the idea was to get them involved because it is really theirs to use. Some departments were easy and some were not. Sales was essentially create a call groups for the differnt brands we sell and have the operators transfer them to the appropriate group. Service was much more complicated, but having live operators helps a ton. Parts was easy as well, but all of that needs some serious consideration. Knowing you will get it wrong and tweaking it on the fly will happen, do it and move on.
3. We picked Polycom phones and that turned out to be a great choice, the 601's have six "programmable" buttons and great sound quality (handset and speakerphone). The Polycoms have a two port switch built-in and will trunk with the network switch which means the second port on the phone can be a differnt vlan than the phone. So we have them plugged in/wired like this: [network-switch]---[phone]---[computer]. The phones run Cisco CDP, when the switch detects the phone (via CDP) it assigns the phone as a trunk device and allows you to choose what vlan the phone will be on and what vlan the computer port on the phone will be on. Also you can have a differnet vlan if you were to plug the PC directly into the switch. The setup works well and I could go on and on about QoS, edge marking of traffic and PoE issues but I will stop.
4. The FOP (Flash Operator Panel) is a cool thing, but we had to do some customizing for our needs. We looked at Fonalitys HUD, but FOP works great. You can see which phones are ringing, have voice mail (whether it is new or old), transfer calls by drag and drop, monitor the inbound queues and really not have to touch the phone to work the system as an operator. Nicholas, the guy that wrote FOP is an invaluable resource. He was willing to help and has done a great job. I am asking our vendor and am going to make sure he gets paid in some way.
5. Wireless WiFi phones (OUCH): We chose the Hitachi IPC-5000 and Meru Networks for the AP's. Okay I was getting a little cutting edge here, but hey why not?! Lessons:
Meru Networks ROCKS!! They figured out the roaming WiFi thing for sure!
Hitachi IPC-5000's to be determined: it look like either the phones have a high failure rate or we have a bad batch or something. Also it looks like they aren't nearly as durable as say a cell phone/mobile phone (which is VER
One way Microsoft screwed the tech world (Score:4, Interesting)
How is this relevant? Again, software is the product. In this case, Cisco and its licensing fees. Most people think of Cisco as a hardware product. While I know it's just a computer with software code that routes information around, it's still, in the minds of many, a hardware product that serves its purposes. But when you are talking about "license fees" you start to think of it differently... more like software. Cisco screwed itself, I think, by moving away from its perception as a reliable hardware product maker. Now you buy their hardware and license the software. It makes people want to shop around more and since the Asterisk product is OSS, well the choice starts to become one of how much money to spend.
It's unfortunate, but seems to be a potentially strong indication of what OSS is doing and why there is such resistance to it, where it comes from and what forms it takes. Looking at it from this perspective shows a nice angle to why software patents are such an important weapon in the software product world.
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Re:Easy there, Cowboy (Score:5, Insightful)
You forgot a question mark in your post correcting him - that's an even more bonehead error.
His message was adequately communicated - you don't need to be annoying and correct him. If you were adding clarity to his post, it would be one thing, but you are just nit-picking. Add something to the conversation or go the hell away.
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