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Microsoft's Video Site 'Soapbox' Disappointing

Posted by Zonk on Tue Sep 19, 2006 07:45 AM
from the learn-from-the-tube dept.
Microsoft Businesses The Internet Media
nieske writes "CNet reviews Microsoft's new video site, Soapbox. Though browsing and uploading is easy, CNet isn't very enthusiastic about the beta, mostly blaming this on the fact that Soapbox has nothing more to offer than other video sites. From the article: 'It's a slightly better sharing service than YouTube in some small technical ways, but it doesn't help users make money from their content like Revver does; it doesn't have granular privacy controls like Vox; it won't post directly into blogs for you like VideoEgg; and it won't show videos from other networks like Yahoo Video. Given Microsoft's position in the video sharing market (dead last), I expected a more aggressive product.'"
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  • Given Microsoft's position in the video sharing market (dead last), I expected a more aggressive product.
    Well, this is Microsoft you are critiquing. I mean, what have they traditionally aimed for? Functionality? Cross product compliance? Not really ... In fact, from what I've read and seen, Soapbox looks like some classic Microsoft action. They aim for ease of use (easy uploading and browsing) and visual "bells & whistles" while using traditional tactics to stifle/strong arm the competition.

    This is very similar to their traditional software market that they have come to dominate.

    This reviewer is the minority of computer users. He is a technically elite individual. There are more regular average people than there are technically elite. Microsoft is probably aiming for the market of older people who shoot home videos on their digital camera and want a site they can understand -- to hell with unneeded functionality. I think there is a large market of people out there and I think that Microsoft is attempting to enter the online video market through this demographic.

    I added a 120MB digital camera video to Google Video last week and the process was way too complex for my mom. Yet, I'm sure that she and my sisters will want to share their home videos with the rest of the family for free. And they're not looking to link it to their blogs (they don't know what that word means) or turn a buck on ad revenue. Playing to the lowest common denominator will get you very far in America.

    Just something to think about before you laugh at Microsoft and claim they'll always be dead last.

    Since the review so heavily criticized Soapbox, what did the reviewer think Microsoft should have added to put it ahead of the competition? I mean, if you add the same functionality (say, ad revenue), you're not exactly putting yourself ahead and you're just doing what's been done. Is there anything left to be done to make your online video site "the best"?

    • Re:Microsoft & the Reviewer ... in General (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Savage-Rabbit (308260) on Tuesday September 19 2006, @08:06AM (#16137130)
      Well, this is Microsoft you are critiquing. I mean, what have they traditionally aimed for? Functionality? Cross product compliance?

      Mediocrity? Not that that is always a bad thing, they do after all own the desktop and a significant portion of the server market, and they got there partly by never scaring their (corporate) customers by taking big design and tecnology risks. They always play it as safe as possible which is why their attempts to do radical innovative things usually end up looking a bit..... um..... unimpressive.
    • Is there anything left to be done to make your online video site "the best"?

      I am patiently waiting for the next innovation. If the reviewer or we had the answer then it would getting rolled into a new site as we speak. Innovation takes time, a PVR is just a VCR without a tape but Tivo made it better.
    • However, if people want real ease of use, for sharing family photos and videos, then I would highly recommend DropShots [dropshots.com]. Although it doesn't have tons of features, its extremely simple. Just click on the icon in the system tray, then drop the files into the window that displays. I have my own hosting service, with Gallery2, and lots of space, but its was impossible to make an argument against using dropshots for my wife. It was just too easy, and too straight forward. No site I've ever seen has taken

    • Since the review so heavily criticized Soapbox, what did the reviewer think Microsoft should have added to put it ahead of the competition? I mean, if you add the same functionality (say, ad revenue), you're not exactly putting yourself ahead and you're just doing what's been done. Is there anything left to be done to make your online video site "the best"?

      If this guy had had some good ideas on what a sight should have had to make it successful, he'd have found venture capital and implemented it himself.

      Tho

    • Since the review so heavily criticized Soapbox, what did the reviewer think Microsoft should have added to put it ahead of the competition?


      How about releasing something first instead of following what everyone else is doing? All this company does now is follow "Web 2.0" companies in the online market and Apple in the desktop and digital media markets.
    • Quite frankly, I'm surprised that C|Net didn't review it more highly. They gush all over everything else Microsoft does - and when Apple stumbles, it's front page news, but you can read an article today about Vista that doesn't even mention the fact that it's two years late and dozens of features short.

      C|Net has very little credibility with me.

      • Curious - where does the above fit in here?

        The fact that you can't watch Yahoo Videos through Soapbox (as the summary mentioned).

        Plus, you really don't know what's going on in the background. I mean, usually that tactic is what follows the release of the software. I'm guessing Microsoft has someone in mind to provide ads, storage, etc. The fact that it's not something you can incorporate into blog sites is also a little evidence they won't play ball with anyone.

        As for playing to the lowest co

        • This LCD-ness is what Linux lacks (Ubuntu's getting close), right now it seems (again, in my opinion) that the sheer lack of open drivers for devices and PCI cards make this damn near impossible.

          There's a lot of drivers in Linux. I've installed Linux on a bunch of different computers, and pretty much the only things that aren't autodetected have been wireless. Now, I don't use things like webcams or dial-up modems, and I'm not saying Linux is perfect, but for a lot of your basic hardware Linux is already

      • Well I will bite the troll.
        I thought that was supposed to be Apple's shtick?

        You are confusing user friendly with Idiot Proof. Just because it is easy doesn't mean that it has to be dumbed down.
        For Example take CD Burning (Pre XP)

        For Linux You needed to create a directory with the files you wanted to burn. Make a ISO image of that directory. then you can burn that ISO.

        For Windows 2000 and below. You needed a third party tool which may or may not lockup your computer every 5 minutes. Most of the time the too
          • And where was this utility default installed onto what distribution. And if it was k3b doesn't seem like a good name to help me figure out to burn a CD. When using Linux I find an app called cdrecord or cdwrite that make far more sience then k3b and apps like mkiso so one would follow the more logical connection then trying k3b when looking for a cd burining app.

            If Linux wanted to be really fancy, and user fiendly in the Linux mind set you mount the blank CD copy files to the mount point and unmounting the
          • I never ment to say it was the only way but it is the most subscribed method.
            As I stated befor Linux apps come up with STUPID NAMES like K3B Oh will do a man k3b to see if it will burn my CD. No Ill probably just view my /usr/bin directory and ohh I see a program call cdrecord what will I use.
            k3b or cdrecord. what would I do a man on k3b or cdrecord, whill I want to record a cd I think I will use cdrecord.
  • This is no suprise from Microsoft. Copy the basics to test the waters... then throw money behind the project to dominate.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by 91degrees (207121)
      But I can't see where this strategy has been hugely successful. Possibly with the XBox, but they haven't dominated in any area online, nor do they seem likely to. As a company, they have the agility to put something like this up quickly and easily, but lack something that would allow them to take risks and try something new.

      • Re:Classic Microsofties (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Yahweh Doesn't Exist (906833) on Tuesday September 19 2006, @08:23AM (#16137229)
        >But I can't see where this strategy has been hugely successful. Possibly with the XBox

        if a 4+ billion dollar loss, tying for 2nd place in marketshare, and hoping to see a profit in the 10th year of running counts as a "huge success", then I don't know what would count as a failure? overheating power bricks actually killing users?

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by 91degrees (207121)
          It's not a loss. It's an investment. It's a 4 billion dollar avertisement for the XBox360. The Xbox has become a dominant player in the console market from nothing.
        • if a 4+ billion dollar loss, tying for 2nd place in marketshare, and hoping to see a profit in the 10th year of running counts as a "huge success", then I don't know what would count as a failure? overheating power bricks actually killing users?

          Microsoft is a debt-free company with $36-$40 billion in liguid reserves. Microsoft doesn't have to deliver results in the next quarter.

          Unlike Nintendo Microsoft is broadly represented in the consumer market. It can leverage products and services to another's advan

  • Obviously not enough features (Score:5, Funny)

    by necro81 (917438) on Tuesday September 19 2006, @07:53AM (#16137072) Journal
    Until it can automatically subtitle in seven different languages, help you create Matrix-like effects, split the atom, and turn my crap home movies into Oscar contenders, I won't be satisfied.

    • Until it can automatically subtitle in seven different languages, help you create Matrix-like effects, split the atom, and turn my crap home movies into Oscar contenders, I won't be satisfied.

      I was a little surprised by the review myself. The first part of the article (talking about the specifics) seemed fairly positive, but the end result was pretty negative. The author doesn't seem to think that making something that was (relatively) difficult fairly easy is any kind of unique selling point. That's prec

  • Get in there with a product that *just about* does what it says on the tin, then use your squillions of $$$ to stifle the competition.

  • Obvious why it's not top notch (Score:5, Funny)

    by Alcimedes (398213) on Tuesday September 19 2006, @08:01AM (#16137110)
    Since Apple hasn't come out with a video sharing service yet, MS doesn't have a template for what theirs will look like.

    • When I went to the site it said "Loading". Waited a while, and nothing happened. I clicked on the "fullscreen" button and a up came video of some gay-looking guy in a gay-looking MSN butterfly costume. I almost puked when I saw that, and took a quick close window shorcut, but no! It popped up a JavaScript dialog asking if I'm sure. Hell, yes I am! The only thing missing is Clippy or that braindead dog that Microsoft ships XP with. Ugh. I'm going to blacklist this site. It was truly tasteless...

      • I'm glad I wasn't alone in the almost vomited catagory. I'm sad that I wasn't strong enough to close out of it. It was so horrible I couldn't look away. Perhaps that grotesque dance is their aggressive marketing strategem...

  • Copy and paste, embrace and extend (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Opportunist (166417) on Tuesday September 19 2006, @08:02AM (#16137115)
    Currently MS is "embracing". I.e. copying what the competition has.

    Extending comes later when they got the leverage to set the "standard".

      • Their idea was "lets support windows media on windows systems running IE only, let those nerds (linux) and Maccies pay for not choosing our OS" for all these years.

        Now: They have to use Adobe Flash while having million/billion dollar spent Windows Media in hand.

        Good riddance!

        I'm sorry, but what is that supposed to mean? You can use this (allegedly) in IE and Firefox = good riddance? I'm confused.

  • news flash! vista will now have intergrated video sharing as a core part of the OS. that will fix their market position
  • Betcha it's going to add some menu item like "upload to soapbox" or some other system integration. Then it will begin to eat up market share for the "easy to use" crowd.

  • If I were a MS stockholder, I'd be pissed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Reality Master 201 (578873) on Tuesday September 19 2006, @08:07AM (#16137138) Journal
    I'd be rather pissed off at the current management of the company.
    Microsoft has traditionally been able to compete in a given market by
    sheer size. The XBox is a good example - they sucked it initially,
    then basically poured money and effort into it till they became a dominant
    player in the market.

    But now they're trying to become dominant in everything - search, portable music players/services, online video streaming, etc. Microsoft can certainly dominate
    one market with brute force, perhaps two or three. But at some point, the brute
    force method just isn't possible anymore - it eats far too many resources. And
    from the looks of it, MS doesn't seem to be getting any better at initial execution.
    As late to the game as they were with online video and search engines, they needed
    to have a "wow" product. Instead, they turned out their typical "meh" product.
    Eventually, they won't be able to spend their way out of the holes they dig.
    • The XBox is a good example - they sucked it initially, then basically poured money and effort into it till they became a dominant player in the market.
      I wouldn't call tied for distant second in a three player market a "dominant player".

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by asuffield (111848)

        The XBox is a good example - they sucked it initially, then basically poured money and effort into it till they became a dominant player in the market.

        I wouldn't call tied for distant second in a three player market a "dominant player".

        And I wouldn't call a four billion dollar loss a "dominant player". Other phrases come to mind, like "act of gross stupidity" and "shareholder lawsuit". Someday, Microsoft's universally appalling performance in everything but Windows and Office is going to come back and bite

        • Universally appalling? Check the facts. In almost everything that Microsoft pursues, they eventually become a large, dominant player. As for this console wars thing, look at Sony et al. They are going to have to subsidize their consoles heavily too.

          Microsoft is just playing the game; they've done it in the past, and they'll do it again. Look at everything microsoft "sucks" at first. Look at it 2-3 years later.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by TheRaven64 (641858)
            Could you please list three things that Microsoft does other than Windows and Office which consistently make a profit? Market share is not important if you have to pour more money at it to maintain it than you get from having it; from a shareholder perspective, at least. People don't buy shares in MS because they want a slice of world domination, they buy them because they want a return on investment.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by kfg (145172) *
      But at some point, the brute force method just isn't possible anymore - it eats far too many resources.

      You aren't suggesting that they shouldn't attack Iran, are you?

      KFG

  • Give them a chance. (Score:5, Funny)

    by 91degrees (207121) on Tuesday September 19 2006, @08:12AM (#16137162) Journal
    Microsoft has only just started, and they managed to produce what took youTube well over a year to achieve.

    Certainly it isn't quite there. There will be a few bugs to sort out, and a few issues to resolve while they deal with technology to prevent users for flagrantly stealing music tracks and then selling them as videos, but Microsoft will get there. And it will be the best.

    Why do I think this? Because Microsoft care about Quality.

    They already have the worlds finest OS and the best office environment. Their search technology is second to none, and their entire online presense is increasing in leaps and bounds. Who could cope in today's online world without MSN messsenger or Outlook? They will soon dominate online videos, and then we'll see an amazing imprvement in this industry segment.
  • Why does Microsoft feel the need to copy every single "new thing" out there? I realize they are incapable of innovation or independent thought, but the past 10 years for MS has been nothing but showing up to a party already in progress shouting "HEY GUYS, WE'RE HERE!!" With the Zume (after the DOA "Plays Anywhere" program) playing catch-up to the iPod and now Soapbox trying to play with YouTube and Google Video it's getting nauseatingly blatant. Tens of thousands of employees and still no innovation. Pr
    • You evaluate the current offerings and try to do the same thing, but better. Microsoft does this. They have Microsoft Research. There's nothing wrong with them getting into video sharing, although it is a bit of bizarre move. Microsoft's sins relate to the way they attempt to make life difficult for users of non-Microsoft software.

      Sometimes this involves going as far as preventing effective communication between users of Microsoft software and users of non-Microsoft software, for example, the proprietary an
      • To a degree, but GMail did come with some innovations that changed web-based e-mail: large storage space, labeling instead of sorting into folders, relevant ad-delivered content, etc.

        It may not seem like much, but you have to admit that the large storage space forced other competitors to offer similar, which was very nice after suffering through the 2MB Hotmail restriction for years.

        Microsoft rarely - if ever - brings even that much novelty to the table with their offerings, although, in their defense, ther

      • GMail followed in the footsteps of Hotmail, true, but they actively improved the product by providing much bigger storage capacity, tagging, archiving, better keyboard shortcuts, conversation view, etc. Google is about taking products and figuring out how to make them better for geeky minds.

        No one cares that Microsoft comes late into new markets like this, we just want them to improve our experience instead of just assuming we'll switch because they're the big guys.

  • From the article:
    • For its part, Soapbox is a solid video sharing service, incorporating all the Web 2.0 features a modern site should have.
    • You can tag videos and comment on them, and you can easily find videos based on tags or popularity.
    • You can also browse the video catalog without stopping the video you're watching, which is a nice user interface development.
    • Uploading is easy - a neat trick lets you upload videos in the background on your PC without requiring a standalone uploader application.
    • Videos can b
    • What you fail to see here is that the reviewer apparently already had in mind what they wanted to say about MicroSoft and this project. That being "I'm underwhelmed and they could have done better." Then wrote the article. The article and what the author wanted to say dont have to strictly have any bearing on one another. You're trying to peddle your silly logic around here and sir, we simply aren't buying it!
  • MS 'innovation' - I love it.

    It seems they are so badly rattled right now they can't do anything original due to major (intellectual) insecurity. SoapBox is an idea popularised by uTube which they've then presented with Apple-style graphics. The typography of the SoapBox logo/name seems to be exactly what Apple have done on their website for a couple of years now (pretty much the same face I'd say) and the circular loading 'device' appears to be pretty much the standard OSX activity graphic.

    As for "loading..
  • But MS-DOS had nothing more to offer than CP/M, Word wasn't better than WordPerfect and Windows wasn't better than Mac or X-Windows. And we can go on and on.... When coming from Redmond, the first version is normally even worse than the competition, version 2 is normally on-par and then with version 3, MS takes over.

    Besides the quality and feature set of the products, this has of course also to do with the fact that by then the marketing machine is running at full throttle.

  • Oh wait, flash video is the only thing stopping MS domination of free web video, nevermind... oh but for everything else, flash sucks, except for online cartoons... those are kind cool too.
  • Why do I have to SignIn? Cant I just browse what's been uploaded?
  • There are so many reviews of video sharing sites that look at the features but miss the fundamentals.

    For example, speaking as someone who follows plenty of video links but doesn't use the service as an uploader, YouTube is unsatisfactory.
    1. Video quality is terrible. It's impossible to make out detail on interesting movies.
    2. No save function.
    3. YouTube's bandwidth is inadequate. It's set up to play immediately while streaming, but YouTube can't stream at the same speed the movie plays. (No, there is no bot
  • "Given Microsoft's position in the video sharing market (dead last), I expected a more aggressive product."

    Does this in turn mean that you would expect a 'less aggressive product' from the vs market leader?

    You seem to be overlooking the fact that MS has a generally poor record all around when it comes to video, which should mean lower expectations. I simply don't see how anything here comes as a surprise.
  • Maybe if they'd market something new instead of copying anything anyone else invents MicroSoft's stock would go up. Also, maybe they could productize some of the nifty inventions coming out its $5 billion research lab.
    • Using Windows Live for authentication and a button inside WMP for one a one click upload like image shack would seriously give them some leverage.

      I'll probably get flamed for this, but if I was building that service that is what I would do.

      They have the platform there, why not use it.

      • I don't know about the WMP integration, but it certainly already does use your passport/live account for authentication. I'm sure other integration is on its way, if it isn't there already.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by TechnoBunny (991156)
      Why is it a requirement to be 'better' to criticise? Im a terrible golfer, does that mean when a star shanks it into the rough im not allowed to say that its a bad shot?

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