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Intel's "Terascale" Vision

Posted by kdawson on Wed Sep 27, 2006 03:15 PM
from the 80-cores-and-nothing-on dept.
Vigile writes, "Intel is pushing the envelope with its latest vision — 80 cores on a single processor. Dubbed 'Terascale' computing, Intel aims to bring low-powered, massively interconnected cores and unleash a new era in data-mining, media creation, and entertainment." For balance, read Tom Yager over at InfoWorld imploring AMD to stop at 8 cores while everybody gets the architecture right.
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[+] Hardware: Intel Shows 48-Core x86 Processor 366 comments
Vigile writes "Intel unveiled a completely new processor design today the company is dubbing the 'Single-chip Cloud Computer' (but was previously codenamed Bangalore). Justin Rattner, the company's CTO, discussed the new product at a press event in Santa Clara and revealed some interesting information about the goals and design of the new CPU. While terascale processing has been discussed for some time, this new CPU is the first to integrate full IA x86 cores rather than simple floating point units. The 48 cores are set 2 to a 'tile' and each tile communicates with others via a 2D mesh network capable of 256 GB/s rather than a large cache structure. "
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  • Good (Score:4, Funny)

    by betterunixthanunix (980855) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:18PM (#16219967)
    Now I can run 80 instances of Doom at the same time. Nothing quite like heavy multitasking.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Heh,
      Not really.
      This chip (as designed) would be one CISC CPU core and 80 Mini cores (kinda like Cell?)
      Anyway, where this will be awesome is in rendering &&|| Cryptography, where the memory bandwith requirements is not as high as CPU compute requirements.

      I personally hope these come out in a 4xPCIe expansion card:)
      -nB
      • This is gonna be interesting. Can you imagine Intel touting Cell's no-out-of-order, no-cache architecture? They'd have to disavow the last twenty years marketing efforts. The mind reels...
    • Heh, add Dual Quad SLI, then maybe I can get 600fps in Tux^H^H^H PPracer!
    • oh oh oh, so THAT is what they are waiting for before releasing Duke Nukem Forever? Eye candy that requires a minimum of 80 cores MUST be good!
  • by Compaq_Hater (911468) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:18PM (#16219971)
    we are on our way to L-Cars computers i can feel it.
    CH
  • by nycsubway (79012) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:19PM (#16219991) Homepage
    This processor must already be submitting stories... If it is there should be 78 more dupes just like it.

    I like the idea of an 80 core processor. Multithreaded applications will work better. Why are people afraid of multiprocessors? Systems with dozens of processors are not uncommon. I dont see why it would be bad for the desktop.
    • How about due to the lack of code that takes advantage of the multiple processors? If you mainly use one heavy application that doesn't take advatage of more than one or two cores, then those other 78 are going to be bored (and not submitting their dupes to ./)!
      • Re:80 Submissions (Score:5, Insightful)

        by nycsubway (79012) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:34PM (#16220187) Homepage
        That is true. A lot of applications do not heavily use multithreading. But, in the scientific community a lot of applications require it. Where I work, we process several GB of MRI data a day. We are able to parallelize the overall processing, so the more processors, the better. However, I wish Matlab would become multithreaded! Our servers have 4 processors and if matlab used them all, we could process 1 dataset in 1/4 the time, instead of processing 4 datasets at once to utilize the CPUs. Processing one dataset at a time would reduce disk I/O.
        • I could've sworn I saw something about a version of matlab compliled with mpich a while back, but I'll admit it could've just been a way to run multiple instances of it at once that i saw. If your situation does not require a whole lot of fiddling, you could put a lot of the code into a compiled .mex file and make that parallel.

          Ironically, the nature of MATrix LABoratory's design goals is particularly suitable for multi-processor implimentations. The language is expressly designed to allow/coax users into
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          That is true. A lot of applications do not heavily use multithreading. But, in the scientific community a lot of applications require it.

          If anything, this will be the one great thing to come out of 8+ core desktop systems. I honestly don't think "most" apps even pretend to use more than 1 core very well. Once 8+ cores are one your bare bones Dell home PC then I'd expect to see everything under the sun start to be multithreaded. With the expectation of 32+ or 64+ cores in a decade time, then I could see alot
      • Re:80 Submissions (Score:4, Interesting)

        by m0nstr42 (914269) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @04:26PM (#16221003) Homepage Journal
        How about due to the lack of code that takes advantage of the multiple processors? If you mainly use one heavy application that doesn't take advatage of more than one or two cores, then those other 78 are going to be bored (and not submitting their dupes to ./)!
        I'm curious - supposing that the software existed to take advantage of it, would it be possible to design an operating system that used a vast number of cores in a radically different (and advantageous) way than we use one or two (or a few more) today? i.e. the kernel spawns several sub-kernels on different processors or clusters of processors, with each one set up to handle a very specific task. Is there really any advantage? In nature, large scale systems of simple agents tend to be able to accomplish complex tasks more efficiently than single agents or small groups.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      It's not the number of processors or cores that they're afraid of, it's the fact that with the exception of a very few cases, your performance does not scale linearly with the number of CPUS, it is less than 1:1. To make it worse, as the number of CPUs rises, the cost to intelligently, quickly deliver sufficient bits to and from all of the CPUs gets exponentially higher.

      Recently, some of our managers wanted to see what it would cost to purchase a system that would significantly outperform our 8-way Opteron
    • I like the idea of an 80 core processor. Multithreaded applications will work better

      Multithreading models from the Windows/Unix/Linux community all assume equal access to system resources such as memory across all threads. They like Uniform Memory Architecture models.

      An 80 core system can't really provide a uniform memory access model, as it runs into severe switching and coherency problems. (You want to snoop HOW MANY L1 caches?!??). Fancy interconnects like hyperchannel and Monte Carlo stochastic scheme
  • by Aqua_boy17 (962670) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:19PM (#16219995)
    Anyone else first read that as "Intel's Testicle Vision"?

    Man, it's been a long day.
  • by chroot_james (833654) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:24PM (#16220053) Homepage
    When you can have 80 underfed chickens?
    • Hell yeah, now Micro$oft can write Windows BBQ edition that will fix those OX and Chickens.
      CH
    • Actually, I am guessing that someone at Intel has been taking the "imagine a beowulf of those" jokes on slashdot too serious, and decided to put it on one chip.

      Tho is *seems* that if the OS was written specifically for 80 cores (ie: 64 bit, one bit per core or something) then *if* they synced up nicely, you could do some cool stuff with games at the least. My guess is that getting the OS to work with 80 cores in near real time is going to produce some serious overhead, however. For what it is worth, $10 s
    • Because the chickens actually work better now and most oxen are now really just three chickens yoked together--hell, most chickens are three chickens yoked together!
    • Because you can't breed oxen from a pair of chicken and you can only put maybe a single ox in a hen-coop for 80 chickens? Figuratively speaking.

  • by Hahnsoo (976162) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:29PM (#16220109)
    Gilette is releasing a new shaver called the "Plutonium Mach80", a razor with 80 blades. Each blade has a separate distinct function, and you can get even closer shaves with the synergistic cuisinart action. Also comes in a "For Women" model for "sensitive areas". "Basically, 5 blades isn't enough. I mean, really, more is better, right?", says Gilette CEO James Kilts. Schick is reportedly working on a competitor blade that may exceed the legendary "100 blade barrier".
  • 80 cores... (Score:4, Funny)

    by windowpain (211052) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:31PM (#16220151) Journal
    And slashdotters will still be overclocking the sumbitch.

  •     Didn't Sun try that sort of idea with the UltraSparc T1? If I recall correctly, while the concept of lots of light cores was cool, the real-world performance didn't do any better than Intel- or AMD-based systems.

    steve
    • If my conversations with "average" purchasers of hardware are any indication, real world performance is not a closely examined metric. How many of us know somebody that spent a metric butt ton of cash on a Duo laptop for browsing the web and word processing? I wish I had a block diagram (like the old old von Neumann architecture picture from early comp sci text books) that shows how insanely out of wack the interconnecting lines have gotten between modern computer sub components and especially including the
  • by CaptKilljoy (687808) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:35PM (#16220207)
    If they succeed, does this meen the tera-rists have won?
  • by foxtrot (14140) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:35PM (#16220211)
    A lab prototype like this can help them with something important: Given multi-core processors look to be the way future computers will be built, how do you feed them data? The current paradigm won't scale past 4 cores on a single chip's worth of FSB, and there are folks who don't think that even 4's going to be a useful increase over 2.

    Even if Intel never sells a chip bigger than 16 or 32 ways, an 80 core lab mule will teach them many things about how to get information to a processor and keep those caches full of appropriate data.

    -F
  • by ncc05 (913126) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:39PM (#16220283)
    [A] teraflop is approximately 1000 Megaflops.
    Is there such a thing as a gigaflops? What happened to that?
  • by dtfinch (661405) * on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:41PM (#16220319) Journal
    Practicality and usefulness problems aside, you can fit over 6,000 6502 processors in the space of a P4, each running at several ghz.
  • The first 80-core chip will actually look live a conventional kitchen hotplate. You add a pot of cold water on top of the chip, then with a dial on the unit you determie how much heat you want to produce. The CPU will automatically run the correct number of instances of Seti@Home to generate the desired level of heat.

    The 4 X 80 "stove top" model will come out later that year. It will include an "oven" that has its own chip and convectional cooling.
    • That's a funny comment, true. But it's not the worst idea in the world. People who use electric ranges spend hundreds of watts for nothing but heat - why not get some computation done in the process? SETI@Home, hack some Diebold machines, protein folding - whatever!
  • You know the arguments in the yard at lunch:

    AMD: We now have two cores, so there!
    Intel: Oh yeah, well we now have four cores- losers!
    AMD: Oh yeah, well we're coming out with eight cores next. Ha beat that!
    Intel: We can and will! We're going to come out with, with EIGHTY cores! Yeah that's right, eighty cores!

    Disclaimer: I've not kept up on the Core War, so any inaccuracies are for dramatic effect...

  • The 80 cores are all simple floating point cores. A lot like the IBM/Sony Cell.
    It is of interest for say super computers and video cards. It isn't the prototype of the Octodec80Core that will be in the new 72" iMac.
    Yea it is a dupe alright.

    What I think a lot of people are missing is that it almost looks like Intel is going to repeat the mistakes with Netburst all over again.
    Now instead of a clock speed race Intel is starting a core race.
    Intel is sticking more and more cores onto it's current FSB. This is go
  • by gsfprez (27403) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:50PM (#16220453)
    I'm a video guy. I can't render video fast enough. I can't do transcoding fast enough. My video is getting larger and deeper in color, and i need more power.

    all of that is threadable.

    so is photographic processing. You can divide a picture 80 ways and have each processor do whatever it is you want to do on it.

    Gamers? Fscking a.... i'm so SICK of hearing hiow everything is for them. Just because something isn't going to help Halo Life 3 run faster is not any of my concern.

    There are lots of people working on their computers that want to see more cores because it will make our lives better.
  • by tygerstripes (832644) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:50PM (#16220459)
    I'm sorry but, well... didn't you guys do this with processor speed a while ago?

    That didn't work because AMD worked out that architecture can trump speed. They innovated, and then did it again with decent dual-core (as in NOT the two-dies-on-one-chip cack that you churned out at first).

    So, you improved your architecture and implemented dual-core properly, to produce the fantastic Duo. You got back in the race.

    And then there was talk of more cores. And you went "Fuck that, bitches, stay DOWN - we is gon' fuck you up good with 80 cores, bitch, an' dat hard!". Yes, you decided to try and dominate the pissing contest of multi-core instead of megahurtz.

    Jesus guys, didn't you learn a fucking thing? STOP trying to turn out something that little bit "more" than the competition, just get on with innovating and coming up with damn good chips. That's how AMD threatened you and, if you go on with this "anything you can do" shit again, you'll be back to square one.

  • by Sloppy (14984) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:57PM (#16220567) Homepage Journal
    Tom Yager writes:
    If I had a vote, I'd have both vendors stop at four cores and focus on fat and fast busses that give those cores something to fill instead of something to wait for

    What's a memory bus? Oh right, that thing you use to access the DDR4 swap device when the page you want to access is no longer in the on-CPU RAM. ;-)

    Seriously, look at the growth of L2 caches, and tell me the day isn't coming when they just call it "RAM" instead of "cache." If Intel and AMD want to keep piling transistors onto their chips, this'll give 'em something to do.

  • 640 cores (Score:5, Funny)

    by ion_ (176174) <slashdot,org&johan,kiviniemi,name> on Wednesday September 27 2006, @04:06PM (#16220721) Homepage
    640 cores should be enough for anyone.
  • Arrgghhh (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Usquebaugh (230216) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @04:12PM (#16220817)
    Why is it that with intel talking about a radical change in consumer hardware the level of comments on /. is barely higher then that on AOL.

    We have had multi processor machines for ages. This is not a sudden unknown. Look up transputer, connection machine, beowulf, cray. There is still ground to be covered but it's not unkown territory. The difference is this is intel, intel needs a big market to sell to.

    This is not going to make significant difference to the end user, most of them will still write letters, calculate spreadsheets and browse the web. It might be enough to finally expose MS et al for what they have always been, the parasites.

    Where this is going to hit home is in the realm of programming and OS.

    Want to run an OS primarily designed for uniprocessing on a multi way architecture? Look at the issues Win&Lin have with SMP, limited to 16 processors I believe. Numa and beowulf are a different kettle of fish. So what will we have on these massive SMP architectures?

    Programming, at last we might be getting out from under VonNuman. Progress might be possible after 30+ years of stagnation. The symbolic/functional languages are going to start to move forward. Hell we might even get to run on stack based cpus with energy reclamation automated :-) Of course a nice message passing symbolic language might score big.

    But given then history of software we'll have a bunch of ignorant, loud mouth idiots running around telling everybody the one true way is Java with mutex and semaphores. PHBs will grab at the first thing that has enterpise written on it and is 'guaranteed'. Most programmers will code how they have always coded head down, ass up. The number of processors will double every two years and the speed of software will continue to halve in the same period.

    Of course nobody will suggest that a staged conversion should take place. There will be all these reasons to throw everything away and start over. Because this time we'll get it right!
            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              The complexity of the research is due to the fact that it is so very, very refined. There isn't much out there that's revolutionary, so instead of "Look at this great concept... a wheel" we are getting "The benefits of XYZ fractal tread on a vulcanized rubber tire under wide tempurature variations spanning water phase changes." The second paper is much more educated on the subject, but much drier and not at all revolutionary ;)

              In Genetic programming, we had heirarchial GP a couple years ago, breaking thro
                    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

                      To clarify, by heirarchial I was refering to HFC [msu.edu].

                      GA/GP searches a problem space for answers using a distributed hill climbing algorithm. It isn't a magic bullet for all problems, but performs well when the fitness of the solution set is a contiguous function and the slopes of the fitness hyperplane are not too extreme. If the fitness landscape is not contiguous, then GA/GP is unlikely to outperform random search by very much.

                      For instance: If your problem is "Devise a key that will open this lock", then G
    • by NerveGas (168686) on Wednesday September 27 2006, @03:39PM (#16220287)
      Your comments are a lot more true than many people realize. Specialized hardware always wins.

      As an example, people talk about using using multi-GHz machines for TIVO-type appliances, and "getting away" with 600 Mhz or so if your card has hardware MPG encoding. Some of the original TIVOs, because of their reliance on specialized chips and ASICs, used measly 33 MHz CPUs - and worked just fine.

      steve
    • I would also take some of the memory used for cache on each core and make it directly addressable instead. This would allow the CPUs to operate more independently and efficiently on certain tasks.
    • We can already do that, on single core CPUs. It's called "multitasking", and things like that are usually done by using multiple threads or multiple processes. It's nothing that can't be done already, but coding threads is a huge pain.

      Besides, 1 core would be better than several in many respects. Say, if you've got a web server, or a database or whatever this means that each process/thread only can get up to 1/80 of the processor's capabilities, unless the program is coded in such a way it can take advantag
    • You need a refresher on units. 160 cores would be a Duo Terra.

      It's disconcertingto me how much Latin and general linquistics I am now burdened with to understand contemporary branding. How long before we start seeing IMG SOURCE="icon128.gif" ALT="The Ancient Rune Previously Known as Intel" ?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      if you read his article, you would know that he wants them to create cpus that actually perform in the real world, not just add marketing numbers that will have very little effect.