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Inventor Slims Down Exoskeletal Body Armor
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:11 AM
from the careful-of-my-clock dept.
from the careful-of-my-clock dept.
The Hamilton Spectator is reporting that inventor Troy Hurtubise, creator of the "bear-protection suit" made famous by taking a hit from a moving vehicle, has slimmed down his design in hopes of landing a lucrative government contract. From the article: "He has spent two years and $15,000 in the lab out back of his house in North Bay, designing and building a practical, lightweight and affordable shell to stave off bullets, explosives, knives and clubs. He calls it the Trojan and describes it as the 'first ballistic, full exoskeleton body suit of armour.'"
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Comments (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Comments (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Comments (Score:5, Funny)
Not laser proof?!?! IIRC they weren't proof against an Ewok with a stick...
Parent
WOW! Could it live up to his hype? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:WOW! Could it live up to his hype? (Score:5, Interesting)
This isn't a matter of discomfort; dehydration and heat exhaustion would probably make this thing useless for large scale deployment. Maybe good for police forces, or soldiers operating in very hostile condtions, but probably too expensive and immature for mainstream deployment.
Parent
Re:WOW! Could it live up to his hype? (Score:5, Interesting)
I would think it would also be handy for the guy who draws the short straw to man the Humvee turret -- in which case AC lines could easily be run up through his feet.
Parent
Re:WOW! Could it live up to his hype? (Score:5, Interesting)
The first two guys are in these as they get a bit better use of limbs than holding the standard assault shield.
Then, the weight of them is a bonus because it'll help them pin the prisoner down.
Parent
Can't say I wasn't expecting Robo Armor. (Score:5, Funny)
Its you that'll be facing the robo troopers, not the "bad guys". The bad guys will already have the anti robo trooper guns.
Anyone remember Kevin Mitnick arrested as if he was Wesley Snipes, at the point of several dozen M16's? Yeah... the "lethal" "warrior" Kevin "pudge" Mitnick. You, could be the next Mitnick.
Just my ten cents. Hope you spend it well.
Parent
Re:WOW! Could it live up to his hype? (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:WOW! Could it live up to his hype? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:WOW! Could it live up to his hype? (Score:5, Funny)
Only problem is, they'd have to rob a bank to afford one.
Parent
Re:WOW! Could it live up to his hype? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:WOW! Could it live up to his hype? (Score:5, Interesting)
One interesting snippet though is that bulletproof vests are not knife resistant and knife-resistant vests are not bulletproof. This has to do with the type of weave.
B.
Parent
Re:WOW! Could it live up to his hype? (Score:5, Funny)
But then again, if we learned nothing from Ewoks v. Empire...
Parent
Re:WOW! Could it live up to his hype? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent has a very funny and insightful post BTW.
Parent
Re:WOW! Could it live up to his hype? (Score:4, Informative)
One interesting snippet though is that bulletproof vests are not knife resistant and knife-resistant vests are not bulletproof. This has to do with the type of weave.
You are mixing "strength." Aramid polymers are not stronger than steel if your measure is bending it. They may be able to stop a bullet with a few times less material, but that's not a measure of "strength." If solid parts are so bad, why are the ballistic plates solid inserts into bullet proof armor? Solid is better than fabric sometimes. The benefit of this suit is not the suit as he makes it. He can't make it as it should be made. It should be lightweight but strong sandwiches of cermaics and steel, covered in a woven fabric (Kevlar, if you wish) bonded to it. Something with some form holding capabilities (the steel) added impact resistance (the cermaics), and penetration stopping (the fabric) all made into an armor patter like the one he laid out.
With the right materials, his would be bulletproof and knifeproof, just like you mention is difficult to do. It would also be lighter than people expect, though it would still probably be very bulky.
Parent
It still would be nice (Score:5, Informative)
Even then it would still work better than most stuff that humans ever used as body armour. If you look back into history, humans have been quite happy with a lot less before.
Humans settled for a chain byrnie (basically, inaccurately: t-shirt) for a long time, until basically everyone was already trained to slash at the legs. Then they basically just made it longer. When bodkin tips and primitive firearms made maille useless, people just came up with a thin plate armour, but even that wasn't as invulnerable as you'd think. Then eventually guns got more and more powerful and all the weight was concentrated in a super-thick breastplate and helmet... at the price of leaving the arms and legs completely unprotected again.
(As a side-note, that's one of the factors that confuses people about medieval armours. They see a late musket era breastplate that weighs a lot, and get ideas like, "man, the whole suit must have weighed 100 kilos." In fact, at that point the breastplate and the helmet were the whole suit.)
At no point was the armour supposed to make someone 100% invulnerable. Something like a lance during a cavalry charge was nigh impossible to reliably stop, because with an armoured man and a destrier horse behind it, that was a helluva lot of energy and momentum pushing that tip. So armour never really tried to be invulnerable to that. Estocs could do a pretty good job of penetrating a knight's armour, and so could warhammers (think a thin sharp spike perpendicular to the handle, much like a pickaxe, not the massive hammers portrayed in video games), and so could back-spikes on axes, spiked maces/morningstars and flails. Even if it didn't penetrate, a mace or flail hit could crush articulations.
And in the age of chain armour, it was even more funny. A good hard hit with a straight sword could easily crush tissue and break bones even if it didn't penetrate the mesh of iron loops. Padding helped a bit, but only so much.
Basically the purpose of armour in all ages wasn't to make you invulnerable, but to give you better odds. If on the average you could hope for 1-2 disabling blows deflected by armour before one finally got you, that was advantage enough. Anything more than that that would have been impractically heavy and ultra-expensive. The weight was especially a factor, as they actually had to be able to fight in those suits.
So basically what I'm saying is that if this suit's only vulnerability are the joints, well, then that's already head and shoulders over what has been considered good armour before.
Parent
Re:It still would be nice (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, it wasn't until the advent of smokeless powder that firearms really got the upper hand.
I've seen several (U.S.) Civil War-era breastplates in museum collections. They weren't common, hardly rare; they aren't seen in period photos, because they were worn under the uniform.
Most I've seen had a dent or two from bullets that faile to penetrate; apparently even those big, fat .69 caliber Minie balls weren't powerful enough to get through a well-made breastplate.
I can recall seeing only one breastplate that failed: the officer who wore it took a direct hit from a 3" cannon at a range of just a few feet, while storming an artillery emplacement. I don't think it's unreasonable for such armor to fail in that circumstance!
Parent
What about the Hospital Bill (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll use US soldiers for an example because that's what I'm familiar with.
Injured soldier:
Hospital: approx $6k/day
Artificial limb: ~$3k
Flying home on medivac: $10k
Dead Soldier:
$250k insurance policy(he pays for it, but it's heavily subsidized)
$100k death gratuity for dying in a war zone/hostile action
In either case you have the loss of a trained soldier to worry about.
It quickly adds up. It pays off exceptionally well if you give it to the soldiers who are 1% or more likely to die in the line of duty of something this would prevent, and about 10% likely to suffer an injury requiring medivac to an out of theater hospital and extensive rehab or seperation from service.
As for mass production, he's obviously tested the suit, possibly multiple suits, though it's probable that he's simply repaired the one after shooting it. Heck, that'd be a benefit right there. Replacing a $500 breastplate after being shot is still cheaper than replacing an entire $1.5k intercepter vest. Well, at least $1250 of it, it's $250 each for the front and back plates, and one may still be usable. Once shot the vest itself is to be discarded.
Buy a few thousand of them and the fact you completely destroy ten suits in testing would still add less than $10 to the cost.
Parent
Balmer-proof! (Score:5, Funny)
Video of Troy's Suits (Score:5, Informative)
- Beaten with baseball bats
- Slammed by a large log
- Pushed off a cliff
- Hit by a truck
- Beaten by a gang
Google Video has a different video [google.com]Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Starcraft's marines are prior art
Re:Video of Troy's Suits (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sure that they meant to say "cock."
Parent
Trojan (Score:3, Funny)
Clock? (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly if I wanted to place a clock in an efficient location "dangling between the legs" isn't one of the first places I would think.
Re:Clock? (Score:4, Funny)
The word "clock" was a typo in the article. It's easy to accidentally it the 'l' key because it's so close to the 'o' key.
Parent
Re:Clock? (Score:5, Funny)
When it has a pendulum.
Parent
Just can't resist....... (Score:5, Funny)
"Crunchy on the outside gooey on the inside......."
Wow did I get this line from the article wrong (Score:4, Funny)
"Dangling between the legs, that would be a clock."
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
"I'm winding my watch."
While it would rock if this were the real thing... (Score:5, Informative)
Just as a start, here's his Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] entry.
So until his claims are proven, he's in the group of people whose claims should all be taken with a grain of salt.
Re:While it would rock if this were the real thing (Score:5, Interesting)
Thing is, crackpots can still make brilliant discoveries. Newton was an alchemist; Tesla made all sorts of bizarre claims about death rays, "thought photography", and the like.
Hurtubise's bear suit work seems legitimate, so to the extent that the "Trojan" is an extension of that, extreme skepticism doesn't seem called for. OTOH, the "God Light"...well, maybe dude got hit in the head too many times while testing his bear suit or something.
Parent
Re:While it would rock if this were the real thing (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:While it would rock if this were the real thing (Score:5, Informative)
Look, the suit exists. There's documentary evidence. (Literally; a documentary was made about his efforts to use the suit to observe hibernating bears, which is what it was originally designed for.) Regardless of what else he believes, this is definitely a product that can be useful to the military.
Parent
Re:While it would rock if this were the real thing (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you've seen it, you wouldn't believe the level of miscommunication, ineptitude, petty politics, and flat out greed that can get in the way of actually getting a real product developed with the government.
Parent
Picture here (Score:5, Funny)
you joke but.. (Score:5, Insightful)
The article mentions "high powered weapons", such as an elephant gun. Only problem is- an elephant gun isn't "high powered" in military terms. It's a damn big bullet, but big bullets have low velocities and are horrible at piercing armor because they spread their impact energy across a wide area.
An AK47 is a very high powered assault rifle (well over 2,000fps) and the favorite weapon of Iraqi guerrillas. Standard 7.62mm bullets (no idea if that's what the guerrillas are using) reportedly goes through more than a quarter inch of steel at close range. The armor piercing rounds will slice through a titanium+kevlar jacket like butter; it's doubtful this guy's suit could fare any better. I'm guessing Iraqi guerrillas don't have many AP bullets, but I bet they could find some if they needed to.
How about a 30-06? Small round, and extremely high velocity (over 2,500 fps.) AP rounds were used in WW2 against "lightly armored" targets (jeeps and such.)
BMG .50 cal? Aka the gun that marines use to punch holes in just about everything short of armored personnel carriers. And yes, there are a number of non-US rifles similar in purpose to the .50 BMG that Iraqi guerrillas could get their hands on. Getting hit by a .50 BMG in the head would probably give you a severe concussion or kill you just from the physical energy of the round alone. To stop said bullet, your helmet would probably have to weigh more than the entire suit...
Parent
I can't help myself... (Score:4, Funny)
(I'm a jackass. I know.)
Parent
Oh, the naming process went terribly awry... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Oh, the naming process went terribly awry... (Score:5, Informative)
At the very least, maybe they'll use them in the Halo movie.
Jon Acheson
Parent
what an embarrassment for the us military (Score:5, Insightful)
Troy's history (Score:3, Interesting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Hurtubise [wikipedia.org]
He's got his own documentary (via the National Film Board) and he won an ignoble prize...
Queue the crotch-clock jokes (Score:5, Funny)
Quit Now or Find Another Market (Score:5, Interesting)
What most citizens fail to comprehend is the contracts for things already supplied in very large quantities to the Fed's don't change. They don't until enough moral/political outrage is generated from a given situation that "something must be done!" In the meantime, you get no straight answers from anyone anywhere on the Fed's side.
He may have a great product, but this is where business acumen is important. The guy has two practical options from a business perspective:
1. License the technology for pennies on the dollar to the guys already supplying armor to the DOD and then get screwed by them because they know they didn't pay the guy enough to lawyer-up for the battle to establish the obvious years later. This is a classic move in big-business. Buy innovaters then put their innovations on the shelf where they are "safe."
2. Find other markets. One I'm sure would have some interest is the stunts industry in the U.S. If I still rode mtn bikes, I'd look into this to protect my old bones on some of my favorite descents. (The ones that haven't been lawyered away that is) Meanwhile, find a federal contractor who is powerful enough to run at whoever is providing armor now. It'll take 10 years to get a single purchase order, but maybe by the time the guy's grandchildren are running the company they'll be protecting soldiers.
Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
IIRC, aiming for the joints was a common tactic in days of yore, when knights wore similar protection systems..... once you have the guy crippled and on the floor, a stab to an artery in the groin area would see him off.
I thought some armour protected the joints too, so I suggest he look at 14th to 16th century solutions to a 21st century problem.
Another Sign of the Times (Score:4, Funny)
These days, even the bears are packing.
Slightly incredulous (Score:4, Insightful)
In general, stuff in video games is designed to look cool, rather than to be functional. I mean, look at MechWarrior for example. Why would you ever make a combat robot that walks? All you have to do is destroy one of its legs, or, hell, trip it up with a cable. (Of course, there's solid precedent [wikipedia.org] for this.) I'm not saying that this is impossible, but when people announce technologies like this to the media before they undergo substantial testing, it usually means that they need venture capital. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and let's not even go into the Angel Light and God Light (which can "make blind men see and lame men walk").
Real Picture or Fake Science (Score:4, Interesting)
Today a consumer can easily buy a 8 MP camera so there is no reason that this picture shouldn't be much better quality, also the pixelation, to me at least, screams photoshop.
After reading about all the crack pot ideas this guy has come up with in the past ("God Light", "Angel Light", "1313 paste") why does everybody immediately believe this guy is telling the truth? I personally don't. First the suit looks TOO much like Halo, second whats up with that huge clock or cock?, third whats up with all the different contours on the suit (if this thing was really body armor would it need to be contoured like it had a million gadget built into it, which according to the article it doesn't?).
So I personally think this whole thing is a fake (much to my chagrin). I would love to hear why you think different.
Re:Nice (Score:5, Funny)
The suit definitely seems to go along with the current war strategy... make no quick movements, take a huge beating, and then pull off the helmet for some publicity photos in the papers.
Parent