Slashdot Log In
Google Apps Premier Edition Launches
Posted by
kdawson
on Thu Feb 22, 2007 09:54 AM
from the en-garde-Office dept.
from the en-garde-Office dept.
prostoalex writes "Google Apps is adding a premium offering: a custom 10-GB Gmail box, Google Calendar, GTalk instant messenger, Writely, Google Pages, Google Custom home page iGoogle and Google SpreadSheets for $50 a year per employee. The NYTimes provides some details on competitive pricing: 'By comparison, businesses pay on average about $225 a person annually for Office and Exchange,... in addition to the costs of in-house management, customer support and hardware, according to the market research firm Gartner.' Boston.com quotes an analyst for Nucleus Research on Google's ease-of-use: '"What we see in the Google Apps is a real focus on making them easy to use and intuitive," she said. "And that's something that Microsoft has been unable to do in all of its years with Office."' But the same analyst is bearish on Google Apps' shortcomings relative to the mature Microsoft desktop products: 'Right now Google's going to give companies a better ability to negotiate with Microsoft.'"
Related Stories
[+]
IT: Google Apps Slow to Replace Competition 144 comments
ericatcw brings us a Computerworld article about how businesses are still hesitant to switch to Google Apps as an alternative to Microsoft Office. While a Google spokesman claims "millions of active users", only "several thousand organizations" have paid for the Premier service, which was launched earlier this year. From Computerworld:
"'If we deploy it correctly, Google Docs can replace some [of] our Office apps -- but not all of them,' said Les Sease, IT director of Prudential Carolina Real Estate in North Charleston, South Carolina. Sease would like to switch everyone over completely to Google Apps. But first he would like to see better synchronization between Google Apps and mobile devices, shared online file storage similar to that of Apple Inc.'s .Mac, as well as a simple desktop publishing tool similar to Microsoft Publisher."
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
obvious flaw? (Score:4, Interesting)
Or am I the only one to have thought of that?
Tom
Re:obvious flaw? (Score:5, Insightful)
In the en it is a mixed bag. Somethings will require local data. Other times i really miss having everything on the network. Finding a balance between the two will be the best bet.
Besides a corporation or government who gives their employees data to take home is just asking for trouble. How much of ten's of thousands of customer personal data has been lost your way?
I just am tired of waiting for corporations to stand up and upgrade their networks to even present standards. the USA doesn't even have 3G yet Japan and europe are working on going beyond that.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Docs is horribly uninteresting. FCKEditor [fckeditor.net] has more formatting options than Google Docs. It's not an office competitor in my mind.
Spreadsheets is a bit better, but 2G is plenty of email space for my small business.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I looked at it, but for $50/account it is a lot of money ($1200 vs free) and I can't upgrade only select accounts.
If it were $50/10GB I would get it, because I only have 2 accounts that need more space.
Also, does anybody know if it lifts the tiny 10MB email limit? If I could send 50MB files it would be a lot more valuable.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:obvious flaw? (Score:5, Interesting)
In a large office with hundreds of users, having all that traffic heading out through the wan interface would be prohibitive, it would be much easier to only have the few off-site workers traffic heading in through the wan interface instead.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, as as user of google apps, I can say its not ready yet...
For example, maintaining email lists for mail outs isn't really working yet. Even though you can redirect your gmail to another address, if you try and put that address into the email list for a group mail out it can fail. Specifically, if the address uses characters that ar
Re:obvious flaw? (Score:4, Interesting)
Documents should be stored in some sort of version control system (CVS, etc). When you hit the road you check out the revision you need and store it locally. Not exactly hard.
When I travel to give my talks [e.g. toorcon] I usually have 3-4 copies ofthe talk with me. On a CD, on a laptop, on a USB drive, etc. That way if one fails [which has happened] I have another. One year I went there my laptop wasn't all smooth so I had to borrow one, no problem, files on a usb drive, used another laptop and went on my way. Had I been stupid and put the presentation in a single spot [e.g. google] I'd be fucked [also because Toorcon NEVER has net access].
Also you have to think about the needless traffic this generates with minor revisions/etc going over the wire. Think of it like a dumb terminal, but with millions of users from all over the globe. That has to be a lot of traffic.
Tom
Parent
Won't replace Excel in businesses (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Won't replace Excel in businesses (Score:4, Insightful)
I never really expect to see full macro capabilities, but a simple mail merge, even from google speadsheet would be nice.
Parent
Re:Won't replace Excel in businesses (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, after they bought Writely and the spreadsheet company they also baught a second spreadsheet company. Reviewing their product I noticed it had a much more complete set of Excel features. How hard would it be for them to tack an SQL service to this? My guess: Not too hard at all.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Won't replace Excel in businesses (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry, but it's not going to replace any Microsoft Office product until the program works like *every other* word process on the most basic level.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Fair Comparison? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is that really a fair comparison, though? Google's email is great, but their Spreadsheet and Word Processor solutions are nowhere near as sophisticated as MS Office. And in an office environment, many of those differences do matter.
I haven't played with Google Calendar enough, but would it be a workable replacement for the Outlook calendar? i.e. Can you schedule meetings with a simple invite rather than telling everyone to put it on their calendar? Can other users see your unavailable periods when scheduling?
I hate to give Microsoft props, but there are features that are critical to the office use of software. If Google doesn't provide those features, they will not be able to compete at all. Which means that the supposed "leverage" with Microsoft would be nothing more than hogwash.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
> Is that really a fair comparison, though? Google's email is great, but their Spreadsheet and Word Processor solutions are nowhere near as sophisticated as MS Office. And in an office environment, many of those differences do matter.
For simple documents and spreadsheets, Google's office apps are sufficient. And I would say at least 75% of documents are simple enough to fall into this category. I certainly wouldn't call it a replacement though, but rather it works well besides MS Office especially with
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
it states that "Shared Calendar Resources" are available in the purchased edition. I havn't tried it so I can't really comment.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In the free edition, you can share calendars with eachother and then they can see what you're doing. I'm not sure if there's a specific busy or available feature, but if you see
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I've done some stuff with Google Spreadsheet and it's surprisingly useful. Sure it doesn't support all the power features of excel, but when you need to throw together a simple sheet (particularly if it involves collaboration between individuals) it works surprisingly well.
I'd love to see some analysis about which excel features act
Re:Fair Comparison? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:Fair Comparison? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes this stuff is obviously not going to be as good as a full MS Office install. That doesn't really matter though, because this clearly isn't intended to be an Office "killer" or whatever you want to call it. Google is going after the low hanging fruit - people who have relatively simple needs and would prefer a cheap option, particularly one that has the benefits of offsite backup and accessibility from everywhere. That's not everyone, indeed it is a small market segment, so its hardly going to put a dent in MS Office's market share. On the other hand it is, aparently, a big enough market segment that Google thinks they cna make money at it - and I would tend to agree with them. MS Office is overkill for a lot of small companies, and those same companies tend to be the ones that are less inclined to have full time IT staff to manage file servers, backups, and so on. Just because the product isn't perfect for everyone doesn't mean there isn't a market big enough to exploit. Not everything has to be about total market domination.
Parent
Great marketing? (Score:3, Insightful)
I once heard networking defined as being in a room, having your data located 200 feet down the hallway and believing that it is a good thing. I think the ASP model is flawed in providing the needs for large organizations. There are issues surrounding security of data and uptime availability that probably outweigh the cost savings. Security is huge, especially given Google's stated mission to make ALL information available to the world. Do I want to give them my confidential sales information? Not.
The cost savings isn't what its cracked up to be either, since the cost is $50 per employee, per year. It seems like Microsoft is about 4-5 years between major releases, so your cost is $200-$250 per seat for 4-5 years.
Overall, I'll pass for now.
Needs to be an appliance (Score:5, Insightful)
We're not holding our breath.
Re:Needs to be an appliance (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally, I'm amazed there isn't an appliance version of GMail available yet. Although I suppose they'd have to get it out of beta first...
Parent
Duh (Score:3, Insightful)
"What we see in the Google Apps is a real focus on making them easy to use and intuitive," she said. "And that's something that Microsoft has been unable to do in all of its years with Office."
It's easy to make something easy and intuitive when they have almost no capability. Let's see Google make it a lot easier and intuitive AND have the same functionality.
Why should companies trust Google? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
OTOH, for small businesses that want to keep costs down, this will be useful. One will not need as powerful computers, one will not need in house servers, or rented off site servers, and one will not need to generate a backup plan. I recall at one point when I was backing
Re:Why should companies trust Google? (Score:4, Insightful)
Google becomes an IT supplier with this scheme, and contracts will be written that stipulate confidentiality and security. This is no different than hiring an outside consultancy to run your own company owned servers. Cries of "OMG Gooogle will pwn us all!!!1!one!!" are simply not justified. It's a business relationship, same as any other.
Parent
Not so much Microsoft ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Big cost saver potentially (Score:5, Insightful)
For what you get, and for everything that you *don't* have to buy, that's idiotically cheap.
Other considerations (Score:4, Informative)
Several factors stopped me from being able to make that jump.
1) Legacy...everyone was using Exchange and we had tons of email in it that would be a pain to copy into folders.
2) Regulation. How does google keep all company emails in one place that can be archived and backed up. I'm sure Google won't loose someone's email anytime soon ( less likely then us ), but how do you document their backup procedures.
3) Current email addresses. No one wanted to give them up.
4) Internet bandwidth and reliance. People tend to think of the internet like electricity, but we are not there yet. It is funny that I get a faster connection at my house with a cable modem then our dual t1s provide...and a lot cheaper. This is another post, but unless you are in a big data center getting a decent sized pipe at a reasonable price is still overpriced.
5) Gateway level controls. We wanted to see every email that came in. We run a spam firewall, but if it blocks errantly we have a log. If Google blocks and email?
6) Customer support emails. We have tons of email addresses for our clients/etc that would probably be a pain to setup.
7) Fax support. We have to integrate with a fax server...yep it sucks.
8) Public folders ( ie email boxes accessible by more then one person )...ties in with 6.
To name a few.
If I was starting up a small software company I'd be all over this. As far as for enterprise uses...I think Google has a long road ahead of them...but they are speeding car.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Companies can customize the Gmail accounts to reflect their workers and firms (worker@firm.com).
Many of your other stated concerns are somewhat generic to any change in mail services - I encountered several of them by moving our employees to an in-house mail server from a myriad of outside services. IMHO:
1. Always a problem with changes in service. Users have to decide what's important in their ma
I used to work in Redmond (not MS) (Score:4, Interesting)
Better negotiating position is the point (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft's battle against GO Penpoint is instructive because it's well documented from both sides. The GO side is covered in the famous book Startup, and the Microsoft side is covered in the book Barbarians Led by Bill Gates. In that book the GO chapter ends with the death of Microsoft Pen Windows and a revelation from one of the managers--that the goal was not to sell Pen Windows, but simply to block GO's success in the marketplace---"Block the kick," not score the touchdown.
Don't see the benefit (Score:3, Insightful)
They Fail (Score:4, Insightful)
I like google, gmail, etc, etc., etc..
All I wanted was to get some extra space in my inbox since the free space isnt' enough for me..
To use this service you need to have a domain name...
I own serveral but I don't want my email @ my domain name
All of that is a minor point, just well something that I want...
Here is why they fail...
I can't contact them... there isn't an easy simple way to reach them and find out if there is an alternative..
When you click through into their help system you get into page after page of "try this and try that..."
It's one thing to offer free stuff for FREE and skimp on the help...
When your trying to sell something.. you need to be able to help people...
Not that my problem is such a big deal, but each group of people signing up will have their own problems, and the biggest one is that they can't get anyone on the phone or in email, without jumping through so many hoops, pages, forms and FAQs that well, it's like talking to a wall...
POP vs Exchange (or even IMAP) (Score:3, Interesting)
If gMail implements IMAP, *THEN* they will have a much more competitive offereing, at least on the email side of things.
Welcome back to 1975 (Score:4, Interesting)
The Personal Computer, if google/microsoft have their way, will cease to exist. Welcome back the dumb terminal.
Let google/microsoft store all your data, for a low monthly fee.
Use all your favorite applications, for a low monthly fee.
It's the old micropayment bullshit, disguised as a new 'pay as you go' initiative. Same shit, different smell.
1975 called, it wants its 'micropayment' system back.
Re:Instant messenger? (Score:4, Interesting)
*Yes, I know, GTalk does voice also
Parent
Re:Instant messenger? (Score:5, Insightful)
I was about to moderate this discussion, but I had to respond to you. Instant Messaging, despite rumors to the contrary, can actually be a very productive tool at work. My company uses Lotus Sametime, and I have found it to be a very useful way to get responses to quick questions. No, you cannot hold major discussions over Instant Messaging. And, if you work in a small (
IMHO, the productivity that is gained by Corporate IM easily outshines to potential pitfalls.
Parent
Re:Instant messenger? (Score:4, Insightful)
1. All the members in the conversation *must* know how to touchtype (or at least write faaast).
2. All the members in the conversation *must* agree to write 1 paragraph with one idea per "message" I\n, hate\n, when\n, people\n, writes\n, one\n, word\n, and\n
It started as a "cool" experiment (to test the "new technology") but it was so helpful that we used it trough the remaining University time. This all was on 56k dialup, and yeah it was fast enough for us.
Parent
Re:Instant messenger? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If you're looking for the state of the art today, take a look at the SubEthaEdit text editor for OS X. Basically, it is a text editor that can post a document on a LAN (autodiscovery via zeroconf) or on the internet if you know the hostname or IP and allow for collaborative editing. What is really nice is it has multiple, real time cursors so everyone can be typing at once with their own insertion point. It makes pair programming so much easier than hacked together solutions where giant chunks of text are s
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Because it takes FOREVER to write debug errors on the whiteboard.
(stoopid whiteboard with no cut-n-paste.)
Re:Instant messenger? (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Instant messenger? (Score:4, Insightful)
IM is way better than email for 90% of what people use email for.
when i worked on a helpdesk, we were all on the phone all the time, and we used AIM and an AIM chatroom to IM with eachother about stuff like what systems were up, what was down, that sort of thing. you can talk on the phone (well, listen to an idiot yammer) and answer other people's questions pretty easily that way. plus, you can have several conversations going at once which is way more efficient than a single phone conversation. it's also a great way to move files between people you know since most corporate email systems strip the most interesting of attachments without some sort of manipulation.
i would do personal stuff with it as well... IMing with my wife all day cuts down on the "how was your day/we never talk anymore" meme that cuts into precious evening game time... both mine and hers.
my only beef with IM is that even with clients that let you have several "presences" (jabber/trillian) there aren't many that let you talk to people while they are in an MMORPG. asheron's call had a third party plugin system called DeCAL that let you run many things, including an IRC and aim client ingame which created an allegiance chat channel before one was added to the game in addition to being reachable while in game... but to my knowlege there is no way to reach someone with a default install of a given game without being logged into the game as well.
it would be nice to be able to tell my little brother that he has a meat body somewhere outside of WOW that needs to eat dinner once in a while.
Parent
Re:Instant messenger? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)