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T-Mobile Bans Others' Apps On Their Phones

Posted by kdawson on Mon Feb 26, 2007 07:35 PM
from the get-less dept.
cshamis writes "T-Mobile has recently changed their policies and now tell their customers with appropriate data plans and with Java-Micro-App-capable T-Mobile phones: no third-party network applications. You can, of course, still use their incredibly clunky and crippled built-in WAP browsers, but GoogleMaps and OperaMini are left high and dry. Would anyone care to speculate if this move is likely to retain or repel customers?"
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  • They won't care (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Buran (150348) on Monday February 26 2007, @07:37PM (#18161150)
    They'll just see the flashy commercials and cheap phones and cheap prices and they'll snap up what they're force-fed without realizing they can do better. Face it. People (in general) are stupid in the USA.
    • Re:They won't care (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Zaurus (674150) on Monday February 26 2007, @07:40PM (#18161194)
      Stupid people live outside the US too, you insensitive clod!
    • Re:They won't care (Score:4, Interesting)

      by arodland (127775) on Monday February 26 2007, @07:41PM (#18161216)
      Agreed. I was looking at an industry mag recently, and they printed a poll of cell phone users concerning churn. Basically the questions asked were: Who is your provider, are you considering leaving them in the next few months, and who are you thinking about moving to? Do you know who had the lowest "considering leaving" numbers and the highest "considering moving to" numbers? Verizon. Apparently the average Joes really like their crippled phones and their single-source philosophy.
      • Re:They won't care (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Skater (41976) on Monday February 26 2007, @07:50PM (#18161314) Homepage Journal
        Yeah, pretty much. I don't really care that I can't run the latest gee-whiz app on my phone, and have all the potential security issues and all that crap. I have one app installed: Tetris. I stick with Verizon because I've had very good luck with their coverage over the years. That is, after all, the main point of a cell phone: it can make and receive calls wherever you go.
          • So what handheld device sold in the United States is intended for running handheld video games developed by independents?

            A Palm or PocketPC. Both offer a free development platform and no cost distribution.

              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                All PocketPCs that I'm aware of have a D-pad. I'm fairly certain all modern PalmOS devices do as well. Smartphones have the same capability to install software as any other PC. They may or may not have additional OTA capability. Otherwise, I don't get what you're getting at. No one is "forced" to do anything. The barrier to entry is high if you want to publish a DS or PSP game, sure, but that's life and gaming systems are luxury items.
      • Re:They won't care (Score:5, Insightful)

        by MightyYar (622222) on Monday February 26 2007, @08:00PM (#18161430)
        I'm a T-Mobile customer, but many of my friends and family use Verizon because they have the most complete network and the best customer service.

        While I am a geek and like my phone to do tricks, most people just want to talk and text message. That doesn't make them idiots.
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            In TFA it says that the locking is done at the phone level, and indeed my v360 is still running 3rd party apps with no problems. T-Mobile does not appear to run any kind of visible proxy.

            This is not new news - my wife's T-Mobile Nokia is locked-down, and this is a phone that she got last spring. I'm not sure why it took this long for people to notice.

            I think that people in the US feel like they have to buy phones from the carrier for two reasons.
            1. Sprint/Nextel and Verizon are not GSM phones - as far as I kn
      • Re:They won't care (Score:4, Interesting)

        by tomz16 (992375) on Monday February 26 2007, @08:36PM (#18161814)
        To the parent, there's a reason for Verizon's numbers looking so good...

        I hate the crippled nature of verizon phones as much as the next guy, but simply can't look past the fact that my phone is fundamentally there to place and receive calls reliably. No other network I have tried (and I HAVE personally tried all of the other ones) even comes close to Verizon's coverage in the Northeast. And it's not just average joe blow... Easily 95%+ of PhD's and PhD students I know have verizon service...
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Not at first, but when their contract is up, the "stupid people" will just change to the next most appealing provider (at the time) that offers a flashy phone.
      • by MaggieL (10193) on Monday February 26 2007, @09:23PM (#18162274)
        If Google has a great app, they can send it to Tmobile for testing and approval.

        And if they have a great app for Windows, they should have to get it tested and approved by MSFT first. After all, imagine the support havok it could cause.
  • Seems T-Mobile might is trying to act the evil (/good depends on point of view) sys-admin here.

    I guess some people will like that, and it will probably increase security for the phone, third party network applications would include all kinds of malware if I understand it correctly.

    Anyhow the problem with "sys-admins" is that if they start bothering the boss because he can not play whatever little game used to play and things like this they don't last for long in the job.
    Only problem is that costumers are no
    • by Reaperducer (871695) on Monday February 26 2007, @08:37PM (#18161848) Homepage
      This looks a lot like blogspam. The only form of "proof" is just a link to some guy's blog. No official T-Mobile link to the policy. Not even a supposed quote from a customer service rep on the phone. And I just tried and had no problems using OperaMobile and five other third-party apps on my phone (M600i) with T-Mobile service.

      The Slashdot posting should be rescinded. It's not accurate, not backed up by any proof, and appears to be just a ploy to get page views.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Agreed. I just tried Google Maps on my k790a, using the cheapo $5.99/month internet plan, and it's still running great. Same with the built-in NetFront browser, which I'm sure qualifies as a 3rd party app since it's an unlocked phone.

        Not sure what the article's going on about, but it's apparently a non-issue for me. Which is a huge relief, as I just bought the phone and plan a few weeks ago.
      • by ygslash (893445) on Monday February 26 2007, @09:28PM (#18162324) Journal

        This looks a lot like blogspam. The only form of "proof" is just a link to some guy's blog. No official T-Mobile link to the policy. Not even a supposed quote from a customer service rep on the phone. And I just tried and had no problems using OperaMobile and five other third-party apps on my phone (M600i) with T-Mobile service.

        Nope, it appears to be real. Here are some comments from the blog:

        • I have gotten this confirmed by T-Mobile corporate. I have a tester SIM that has access to everything, and the applications are locked out in the new handsets I have been testing this week. You may have an older handset, before this insidious policy spread. I used to tout T-Mobile for their liberal policies on third party program installation, and I'm very disappointed in the change.

          This is a feature phone problem. No carrier, not even Verizon, dares forbid application installation on smartphones such as Blackberries, Windows Mobile phones, or Treos.

        • The phone that drove me nuts was a Nokia 6133, and I think the point that it's subsidized is bizarre; letting people use Opera Mini would increase, not decrease, T-Mobile's revenues by encouraging people to sign up for data plans. T-Mobile is shooting themselves in the foot by crippling the development of the third party software industry, lowering demand for mobile data.

          As several posters have said, they make money on the data plans, not on the phones - so why prohibit applications that would get people to demand data plans?

          Subsidies also seem to be a smokescreen here. If you go to a T-Mobile store and buy a Nokia 6133 at full retail, mid-contract, Opera Mini is barred. If you go to a Nokia store and buy the same 6133, inserting the same T-Mobile SIM, you have no problem.

          And I need to repeat - this isn't about smartphones. I'm not talking about the SDA, the Blackberry, or whatever. I'm talking about feature phones, which could be dandy computing platforms if the carriers weren't so hostile.

        • THIS IS TRUE REPORTING! I recently bought a Samsung Trace (T519) and installed google maps. It didn't work, and after about 12 nonstop hours of research I found out that their applications are all digitally signed (VeriSign) and will block out the permissions menu for the network access, thus resulting in the application not being able to connect itself to the internet. The ONLY SOULUTION to this problem is to buy the Firmware Flash cable, download the Flashing software from the phone manufactures website, (and the real tricky part) then find the ORIGINAL firmware to flash to the phone. Of course your going to have to manually set up your T-Zones (webaccess address and port) and a few others, but it will unlock ALL the features of the phone so you will be able to use the phone fully. It's a tricky process, and you need to make sure your not using a T-Mobile "Branded" firmware update. There are many independent phone gurus out there that edit firmware and release it themselves with all features unlocked. If you use a T-Mobile Branded firmware, you'll waste money and time to be exactly where you are right now.

          IE... Cingular's D807 and T-Mobile's T809. They are the same phone, same display, memory card slot, ect... However, T-Mobile's phone has limited features compared to Cingular's. The D807 has voice activation and a few other bells and whistles. This isn't the phone's hardware, it's the firmware.

          In short, get yourself the syncing software & cables and a fresh Firmware update and you will be able to run any app. Right now Cingular doesn't limit 3rd party software, so if you have to, use one of their Firmwares and then tweak your port settings and you'll be free and clear of the holdups of horrible T-Mobile.

      • by Powercntrl (458442) * on Monday February 26 2007, @09:35PM (#18162382)
        There's quite a few angry T-Mobile users out there over this. Just because T-Mobile hasn't released an "official" word on the matter doesn't mean it hasn't happened. And yes, I do use T-Mobile and this restriction only just recently became active in the central Florida area. And also yes, I know T-Mobile isn't *just* in the US, but we're talking about T-Mobile's service in the US. So, if it's working for you over in Europe, that isn't very relevent, sorry.

        Of course, you can easily prove that the story is true yourself. Ask a friend who lives in the areas where this has already taken effect, has T-Mobile and only pays for the $5.99 plan if he/she can still access anything with Opera Mini. I'll bet you $5.99, he/she can't.
        • by Reaperducer (871695) on Monday February 26 2007, @09:56PM (#18162528) Homepage
          Howardforums contains two threads related to this. One is just another piece of blogspam with a link to the same blog as the Slashdot submission.

          The other is a thread about how T-Zones is now giving people what they pay for. When you signed up with T-Zones you were told web and e-mail. T-Mobile let some other data through in some other markets. Now they're expanding their restrictions in what appears to be an attempt to make all markets the same.

          So, T-Mobile enforcing the restrictions you agreed to when you signed up for T-Zones service is the same thing as T-Mobile disallowing third-party apps on cell phones? Not even close.

          Sounds like you're mad because you finally got caught and you're trying to make this into something it isn't.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      I have a T-Mobile Dash and I live in the LA area. Google Maps stopped working over the weekend, and, strangely enough, even Internet Explorer isn't working(?!) The only thing that does work is getting email.

      The sweet thing about T-Mobile was having Google Maps and an Internet connection (nearly) all the time for just $5.99/month. Now I can't even browse the Internet? Lame. Super lame.
  • by moria (829831) on Monday February 26 2007, @07:39PM (#18161190)
    Now it's the time switch to Cingular, and get and iPhone, to continue using my 3rd party applications. oh wait...
  • ... all of whom will be cottage-industry entrepreneurs whose business plans called for them to get a 10% share of the market for third-party applications running on T-Mobile phones.
  • Well crap (Score:2, Interesting)

    I was really thinking of going with T-Mobile because the are supposed to have the best customer support. Oh well they are off my list now.
    Sprint has been pretty good for me I guess I will probably stay with them.
    • Sprint does the same thing and you need to pay more to use your own phone to cover the cost of not using sprints own apps.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Sprint does the same thing and you need to pay more to use your own phone to cover the cost of not using sprints own apps.

        Strange. Sprint never charged me a red cent more for downloading and using Google Maps. I do have an unlimited "Sprint PCS vision" plan, though. If you don't have this, you'll pay a penny a kB no matter who's content you use.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        T-Mobile and AOL are owned by the same parent company

        Since when? AOL is part of Time Warner, T-Mobile is the US branch of Deutsch Telekom. Now while DT did or does manage the AOL Germany service, AOL is not part of T-Mobile.
  • by core_dump_0 (317484) on Monday February 26 2007, @07:42PM (#18161228)
    1. Piss off your customers
    2. Lose them to competitors
    3. ?
    4. Profit!
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Close.... more like: 1)Piss off those customers that make full use of their data plan, so actually end up costing the company which severely oversold their services. 2)Lose them to competitors 3)Have lower costs 4)Profit!
  • by winkydink (650484) * <sv.dude@gmail.com> on Monday February 26 2007, @07:45PM (#18161258) Homepage Journal
    Testing some T-Mobile phones recently, I once again ran into T-Mobile's annoying policy of banning third-party applications from accessing the Internet on their phones. Like so many infringements on our liberties, this started stealthily with a few devices but now covers their entire product line.

    Geez... has the author considered calling them up trying to get out of his contract or if he doesn't have one, to simply cancel and move to another carrier?

    What's that? T-Mobile's data plan costs less? Sounds to me like one is gettign what one paid for.

    Infringements on our liberties. Puh-leez.... Yeah, I rate this right up their with warrantless wiretapping by the government.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      What's that? T-Mobile's data plan costs less?

      Except it doesn't. I just switched from T-Mo to Cingular solely based on their data plans, so the pros and cons are pretty fresh in my memory. T-Mo is $29.99 monthly for GPRS/EDGE internet *AND* Wi-Fi (they're an inseperable bundle now), where Cingular is $19.99 for GPRS/EDGE/UMTS/HSDPA internet. T-Mo's $5.99 T-MobileWeb or whatever is proxied crap; it doesn't even support HTTPS, so no online finance. Cingular's cheapo ($19.99) service comes with a Thou Sha

  • doesn't matter (Score:3, Insightful)

    by igotmybfg (525391) <slashdot.danielthompson@net> on Monday February 26 2007, @07:47PM (#18161280) Homepage
    The people who know better can fix their phones (most of you probably unlocked your phone already, or bought it unlocked from a third party). The people who don't, don't care anyway.
  • by straponego (521991) on Monday February 26 2007, @07:49PM (#18161310)
    Maybe a single buggy application on their phones can take down their entire West Coast network, like the CEOs of Apple and Cingular claim of their combination. Hey, also, since Mr. Jobs claims that iPhone is OS X, and any third party applications will crash iPhone, is it true that any third party apps will crash OS X?

    I mean, the only alternative is that they are lying, greedy scumbags, and I wouldn't want to think that about anybody.

  • by umbrellasd (876984) on Monday February 26 2007, @07:59PM (#18161416)
    Sure, I'll speculate my foot up T-Mobile's monopolistic ass. How's my speculation now?
  • by SnappyCrunch (583594) on Monday February 26 2007, @08:05PM (#18161490) Homepage
    ...and as of right now, Google Maps still works.
  • by Afecks (899057) on Monday February 26 2007, @08:06PM (#18161512)
    I hope no one from Sprint is paying attention but using a PPC-6700 on a plan with unlimited data access but no extra "modem tethering" plan it's still possible to use your phone as a dial-up modem. This frees you up to use your laptop on the internet anywhere in their coverage area without an extra card or extra cost. Nothing beats a full size browser with Javascript. Verizon sells the same phone as the VX6700 but from what I hear they had a firmware update that "fixed" it.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      That's possible on any Sprint PCS Vision phone, using the *777 (PPP) code and a USB adapter. It's THE reason why I'm still with Sprint.
  • by 0xdeadbeef (28836) on Monday February 26 2007, @08:11PM (#18161562) Homepage Journal
    Sascha Segan (author): "Tony, I maybe didn't make clear enough that this is a feature phone problem. No carrier, not even Verizon, dares forbid application installation on smartphones such as Blackberries, Windows Mobile phones, or Treos."

    Um, this isn't quite the sky is falling scenario he makes it out to be in the article. Of course, any bad publicity it generates is still a good thing.
  • I use an HTC Trinity P3600 and this will NOT affect me. I also tether my laptop to my P3600 (bluetooth or USB) and I will also not be limited.

    This is ONLY if you use T-Mobile branded phones. I called my customer retention agent and she confirmed over and over that this will NOT affect third party bought phones, which is the only way to play unless you want to try to buy an outdated phone of T-Mobiles at a discount price.

    FUD, FUD, FUD. I love my T-Mobile phone and I travel to 13 states to do business, plus I work in Europe and Asia regularly and my phone works fine there with my T-Mobile SIM (albeit pricey but it works fine).
  • by troll -1 (956834) on Monday February 26 2007, @08:36PM (#18161826)
    Perhaps the problem with cell phone networks in general is that they were designed in a closed environment with a need for profit.

    Compare cell phone networks to the Internet which was designed mostly by scientists and engineers in an academic, peer reviewed environment with the simple goal of building an efficient network.

    If the Internet had been designed phone companies, you'd by your computer from you're ISP and it probably wouldn't work with any other ISP, your ISP bill would list every site you visited that month, overseas sites would be charged at a higher rate, and DNS would probably be sold as a 'white pages' lookup service where they could charge you a penny for every click.

    Phone systems are just plain dumb and the people who run them are concerned more with nickel and diming you for every trivial service they can think of than they are in building good network infrastructure.

    The FCC is largely to blame for this because they choose to auction off the airways to the highest bidder almost without regard as to how that bidder is going use the medium.

    I'm no fan of big government but if we're going to have regulation, then let's do the thing right. Let's require cell phone companies to provide mobile IP addresses and let anybody access their network with the hardware and software of his own choosing. Let the consumer buy *airtime*, nothing more, and let the consumer decide whether he'll use voice, download music, stream video, text message, etc., just like we do with landline companies.
  • O RLY? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rit (64731) <bwmcadams@NOspAm.gmail.com> on Monday February 26 2007, @08:37PM (#18161840) Homepage
    Uhm, that's weird.
    Seeing as this morning my office gave me a brand new Blackberry 8700G (Edge network, fast processor) and the first thing I did was install Google Maps.

    It installed with Zero problems, and it runs great.

    So... what's this about banning third party apps?
  • by metroplex (883298) on Monday February 26 2007, @08:41PM (#18161884) Homepage
    I think this move will repel those with an even slight knowledge of mobile apps, but the majority of customers just won't care. Out of all the people I know, those who use the web capabilities of their portable phone are surprisingly few. No one I know has opera mini installed, let alone caring which apps can be installed and which cannot.


    Technologically less educated people in those case just believe the salesperson and assume it is "not compatible" with certains apps (which it is, but on purpose), but buy it anyway because it looks shiny or has a 3 megapixel camera.

  • by GrouchoMarx (153170) on Monday February 26 2007, @09:13PM (#18162188) Homepage
    Seriously, as a current T-Mobile customer, where else am I going to go? I've still got over a year on my 2 year enslavement contract. Even when it's over, where do I go? Cingular? They play nice with the NSA, their customer service is terrible, and their QoS in my area is crap. Verizon? They've been crippling their phones for years. Sprint? Decent data plans, but they're CDMA which means device lock-in by definition. US Cellular? Also CDMA lock-in.

    I just want a good GSM carrier in the US that will give me a family plan, a decent data plan, a non-insane lock-in, and half-way decent phones. Or hell, give me decent plans at a good enough price and I'll buy my own damned phones as God intended. Just sell me a SIM card and don't bankrupt me to use it, then stay out of my way. Is that so much to ask?
  • It's the VOIP stupid (Score:3, Interesting)

    by popo (107611) on Monday February 26 2007, @09:30PM (#18162344) Homepage
    This idiotic policy doesn't even work in T-Mobile's interests. Third party software encourages people to use data services, which encourages them to sign up for data plans, which makes T-Mobile money. A more liberal policy on mobile apps also might help the nation's #4 carrier win customers away from control freaks like Verizon, with their strictly limited set of applications.

    The third party software they're afraid of is VOIP software that encourages people to use data services as a replacement for their overpriced phone plans.

    (Why are there 160 comments above mine with no mention of this?)
  • My Guess? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by /dev/trash (182850) on Monday February 26 2007, @09:42PM (#18162420) Homepage Journal
    Two year contract says RETAIN.
  • by Powercntrl (458442) * on Monday February 26 2007, @09:54PM (#18162512)
    First of all, yes, some T-Mobile branded phones had their firmware modified by T-Mobile to prevent third party applications from accessing T-Mobile's data network. This has been going on for awhile, and really isn't news.

    What T-Mobile has done recently, is a slow regional rollout of port blocking. You see, T-Mobile offers a $5.99 WAP access add-on, and a far more expensive "full internet access" add-on. What is happening is that people who bought unlocked/unbranded phones without T-Mobile's silly restrictions are finding that T-Mobile's $5.99 WAP plan just won't work any more for 3rd party apps which need unrestricted access to the Internet. The restrictions stopped just being in T-Mobile's phones. Now, as Verizon is so fond of saying, "It's the network."

    There's quite a few threads about this started over at HowardForums, and it is very real. If you think you're sitting pretty because it hasn't happened to you yet, you've been warned. The only way you're safe is if you're already on one of T-Mobile's "full internet" plans (Blackberry, Sidekick, Phone-as-Modem, etc.).
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      What makes you think that won't be the case eventually?
      • by jc42 (318812) on Monday February 26 2007, @08:27PM (#18161724) Homepage Journal
        SPs (or phone companies) have ligitimate reasons to be concerned about what you run.

        No; they have illegitimate reasons. We should have an inalienable right to communicate as we wish, by whatever means we wish. Corporate control of our communication is a guaranteed disaster for everyone but the owners of the corporation.

        In particular, the main design goal of the Internet was to end the traditional stranglehold of equipment suppliers and comm companies over communication. Look up the early docs of the ARPAnet; its primary design goal was to make it possible for any piece of equipment from any vendor to communicate with any other piece of equipment from any other vendor. The vendors had always blocked such universal communication, and the US's Dept of Defense was fed up with it. The companies that supply the equipment still put any roadblocks they can in the way of communicating with their competitors' equipment. The phone companies are especially good at this, at least here in the US.

        It's true that this is very easy to understand why the companies would be concerned with what we run on our machines. But this concern is not in any reasonable sense legitimate. It's the worst possible way you could run a comm system. We should continue to fight it any way we can.

        The only legitimate restrictions should be that malformed packets may be dropped, and "bandwidth hogs" may be throttled to a reasonable speed limit (i.e., whatever speed they've paid for). But note that such restrictions have little if anything to do with what software you or I may be running. Or with the content of our data packets, for that matter.

    • by grahamsz (150076) on Monday February 26 2007, @08:05PM (#18161500) Homepage Journal
      I have Skype on my T-Mobile dash.

      It works OK on an EDGE data connection but the call has pretty high latency (feels like a satelite connection). Works like a charm on Wifi though - it's just really confusing having a phone application running on your phone.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Up until last week Google maps and Gmail both worked on my T-Mobile branded phone. Now they don't. No FUD, they really didn't just start blocking this stuff.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          I've haven't heard of anyone else offering to unlock phones just by requesting them to.

          Actually, once your contract finishes and you move to a month-to-month plan, the phone is legally yours. If you request it, the carrier is legally obligated to give you an unlock code.

          -b.