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Windows Genuine Advantage Gets More Lenient
Posted by
kdawson
on Tue Feb 27, 2007 02:46 PM
from the you-may-already-be-a-pirate dept.
from the you-may-already-be-a-pirate dept.
Troglodyte writes in with word that Microsoft is revamping its Windows Genuine Advantage program so that it labels fewer users pirates. WGA now has a third category besides "genuine and "not genuine," called "not sure." Quoting: "[I]t's quite obvious what is going on here: Microsoft has added 'not sure' as a way of cutting down on the number of false positives associated with WGA. As many as one in five PCs were failing WGA checks, but this new setting should both reduce this and give Microsoft the chance to investigate further the kinds of things that are landing folks in the 'not sure' category."
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Linux: Ubuntu Linux Validates As Genuine Windows 401 comments
bobbocanfly writes "Another crack in the Windows Genuine Advantage wall. A user at UbuntuForums.org managed to validate an Ubuntu installation as a genuine copy of Microsoft Windows and get to the download page of Windows Defender, using IE4Linux and Wine. (Here is an OGG video of the process.) Along with the advancement of LiveCD technology, this could spell the end of Microsoft's control over who gets their updates."
[+]
The Downsides of Software as Service 326 comments
JustinBrock writes "Dvorak's article yesterday, entitled Don't Trust the Servers, argues that the danger of software as a service was highlighted when 'the WGA [Windows Genuine Advantage] server outage hit on Friday evening and was finally repaired on Saturday. It was down for 19 long hours.' The whole fiasco raises an interesting perspective on the software as a service 'fetish'. Dvorak highlights it hypothetically: What if the timeline were reversed, and we were moving from online apps to the desktop. Hear his prophecy of the marketing: 'You can image the advertising push. "Now control your own data!" "Faster processing power now." "Cheaper!" "Everything at your fingertips." "No need to worry about network outages." "Faster, cheaper, more reliable." On and on. I can almost hear the marketing types brag about how much better "shrink wrap" software is than the flaky online apps. The best line for the emergence of the desktop computer in a reverse timeline would be "It's about time!"'"
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First Post (Score:5, Funny)
Re:First Post (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Not sure? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Not sure? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Not sure? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Matey (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
So (Score:5, Funny)
1. Not a pirate
2. Pirate
3. Ninja
A serious Win for MS (Score:2)
Re:So (Score:5, Informative)
#4 - A windows Volume license install that then had the WGA patched plus the install key changed to a regular Pro key that was keygened and thus passes the WGA test perfectly. Even Windows Media player 11 is happy with it.
WGA is so incredibly easy to get past it's not funny. set the patched WGA dll to read only and updates cant overwrite it.
Parent
Re:So (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:So (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Have YOU ever had to argue with Microsoft to get another activation code? Has anyone you know (in real life, not on the net) had to argue with Microsoft to get a code? Every single time I have needed a new code I've called up the number that appears on the screen, told them that the motherboard failed and I replaced it, and then they gave me a new code.
Having to "argue" with
Re:Actually (Score:5, Interesting)
I personally had to argue with Microsoft to get an activation code for Windows XP. The hard drive on my IBM Thinkpad failed, and I replaced it under warranty. Windows refused to authenticate using the product key printed on the bottom of my computer, saying the key was invalid. (I had bought the computer directly from IBM, which I expect eliminates the possibility this was a bogus key.) I called the Microsoft authentication hotline, which had an automated voice that insisted that I read out loud the 54-digit code that Windows provided. I tried typing it in, but it ignored me. When I read it out loud, the Hotline told me that number was invalid and hung up on me.
I called back. This time, I didn't try to read it the 54 digits again. When I was silent, it hung up on me. So I called back again. This time, I made random noises at it. After five minutes of random noises (which was quite amusing to those working nearby), I finally got hold of a person.
It took 20 minutes to convince the person at the other end of the phone that my license was legitimate. They gave me a new key to enter. Windows said the key was valid, and everything seemed ok.
Then I rebooted, and Windows again said I had an invalid key. I had to call back again, make random noises for five minutes--my coworkers were laughing hysterically--and get a new key. I told them to wait until my machine rebooted, and they said they couldn't. I asked for a way to reach them directly without making noises at their stupid voicemail, and she said there wasn't a way. While I rebooted, I said I wanted to speak to a supervisor. She waited a moment and then said there was a supervisor there--but I couldn't speak to him. She would relay what he said. (Yeah, right, Microsoft.) The "supervisor" told me I should type the "0" key on the phone when I got the first voicemail prompt, which would connect me back to a human operator. I said I didn't believe that would work (since I had tried typing the number already, when it insisted I read it). She laughed and said the "supervisor" had told her to tell me that, and she hung up on me. At least my stalling tactic worked--she stayed on the line until the machine rebooted so I could confirm it wasn't useless key.
I have lived through Microsoft's reactivation hell, personally. It's not FUD.
Parent
Re:Actually (Score:4, Interesting)
Little known fact: Keys from major OEMs printed on stickers on your box / under your laptop are DUMMY KEYS. You can install the OS with them, but it will NOT activate.
If you use manufacturer's recommended recovery method (Recovery CD, recovery partition), the key is never asked. If you use some other media, the key is accepted, but it _will not activate_. If you call MS and actually get a human, they usually give you a new key when you explain the situation, but the sticker key not working is WORKING AS DESIGNED.
The sticker keys used to work, but then people stole them by writing them down from PCs (shocking!), so the MS answer was to make them essentially duds.
Parent
I got a better idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Just do away with all this crap and stop bothering paying customers. Hackers will always find a way around whatever scheme MS or any other company devises. It's just a fact of life. If humans make it, humans can break it. Vista is already hacked and it will always continue. HDDVD has met the same fate.
gasmonso http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]Meaning of not sure (Score:2)
Re:I got a better idea (Score:5, Informative)
Very true, but in the 90s, companies pirating mass quanities of MS software was a major concern. Not only did it kill MS revenue, but it screwed consumers as they thought the copies they were buying were legitimate.
From working in the OEM world at that time, even our trusted vendors would often have workers that would offer 'discounted' OEM copies of MS software from another company all the time. It was so bad that our company had to put in place buying policies to ensure only geniune copies were ever purchased. And even with that policy in place, we had several hundred fake copies of MS software slip through OEM distributors that themselves didn't realize the copies were fake.
This is where all this crap started, but in the process MS lost sight of the goal of ensuring consumers didn't get screwed.
People in MS honestly think the Activation and Keys and WGA were good things to help the consumers to ensure they didn't get worthless copies.
MS just needs a real wakeup call that there are alternatives to dealing with mass production piracy that DO NOT harm or even bother the consumers.
Digital distribution could actually be a real solution as the control of licensing and purchasing could potentially be more easily controlled than relying on Keys and WGA to ensure copies weren't obtained from shady companies.
I don't agree with MS on this, although I do have understanding of where and why all this protection crap started.
Parent
Re:I got a better idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
"Piracy" HELPED Microsoft in the 90's. (Score:5, Interesting)
And Novell tracked each license number by company. You could transfer your license to a different company by sending Novell a letter on your company's letterhead.
Microsoft couldn't distinguish between the serial number for a mouse and the serial number for NT server. Microsoft didn't keep a record of what licenses you had registered. They couldn't even tell you if you HAD registered any licenses.
So you could get one license code for NT server and install 1,000 "pirated" servers.
And Microsoft liked it like that. That gave them the edge over Novell.
Now that Microsoft's competition is practically dead, Microsoft is looking for ways to increase their revenue by making sure that every single license is paid for. Just like Novell was doing in the 90's.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:"Piracy" HELPED Microsoft in the 90's. (Score:5, Insightful)
Good, because ultimately it will be Microsoft's undoing. Small shops that were 100% Microsoft but were able to do so only by paying for what they cord afford and pirating what they couldn't will now be forced to dump Microsoft or stick with older versions of Microsoft software because the new versions are so locked down they can no longer engage in the casual copying they used to engage in to upgrade those PC's that they otherwise couldn't afford to upgrade. They'll then focus on finding less expensive or free alternatives that can integrate with the existing Microsoft software that they are running. Standards suddenly become important to these shops and they are now open to and aware of alternatives they were not open to or aware of before. Suddenly paying the Microsoft tax seems more and more ridiculous.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I got a better idea (Score:5, Funny)
That's why the next version is being coded by SHARKS! Sharks with frickin' "lasers" on their heads.
-jcr
Parent
Well... (Score:3, Interesting)
Do you think people inside MS are starting to finally stop listening to Ballmer and his business/money only mentality?
It could be quite earth shaking for MS to start caring about consumers more than $$ again.
Not sure? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm a PC
I'm not sure
Oh please (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Oh please (Score:5, Interesting)
Though My first thought was that they wanted to cut down on customers getting the invalid key. Out of every million, 200,000 people where being told that their once valid copies were no longer valid. So in order to cut down on False Postives they added another point. So out of a million customers you have 150,000 peopling calling to say WTF fix this, and 50,000 pirates.
Their numbers still add up but the PR dept doesn't have to work so hard.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
That key is a single use single instance key - one consumer can have it.
However, 2 people register with Microsoft for it - one of them is a pirate, the other isn't (or both are..)
How can you tell?
Then, take one volume licensing key which was purchased for a company to do 20000 installations worldwide.
That key gets used 20001 times, which is the pirate?
Turn off the wrong machine and you just lost that entire customer of thousands of machines ('cos the boss
Re:Oh please (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't work that way. VLKs are basically on the honor system.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
What defines "two different machines"? What if you put the HD, ram, video card into a new mobo +case? New computer or old? Which has a valid claim to the license? What if the old computer dies instantly with no time to go through some kind of 'key deactivation' process?
Thats what WGA tries to help with, but apparently doesn't do too well.
Re:Oh please (Score:5, Informative)
For quite some time, the key algorithm for the Volume License copies of XP has been cracked. They're perfectly valid keys, they simply haven't actually been sold to anyone. That's why they can't use the same algorithm, and why they have to keep this magic database of "actually sold" keys to compare against. I have no idea how this database was generated, but I'm willing to bet it was cobbled together, and that Microsoft had no real easy way of knowing which keys were sold and which were not, which resulted in a highly error prone database.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I mean, how hard can it be? The key either is valid or it isn't. Compare the key for validity using the same algorithm that Windows installation uses and compare it against the database of invalidated keys and that's it. No other software products have no problems with validating keys, why is this causing so much problems for Microsoft?
Well, considering I've gotten WGA "not genuine" notices [trojantirade.org] while using a perfectly valid key, and I'm not alone - simply installing the wrong program can cause "not genuine" notices [microsoft.com], I'd say Microsoft's system is slightly more complicated than "see if key is valid".
Wow I was right (Score:4, Informative)
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=218426&cid=17
I hate to say it but "I told you so!"
Ok, I enjoy saying it
So it's safe to upgrade my computer now? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:So it's safe to upgrade my computer now? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Now how about activation (Score:5, Interesting)
I have never had trouble using pirated editions of Windows. Regardless of this softened WGA check, Microsoft punishes their legitimate customers. Period.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Windows Freebooter (Score:3, Funny)
Are you listening Microsoft? Here is an opportunity to make some money. Package and sell the pirated version as 'Windows Freebooter', perhaps for a $50 premium over regular price. Seriously, I'll bet there's a market for it.
Ah, three-way boolean logic! (Score:2)
magic (Score:5, Funny)
* Signs point to yes.
* Yes.
* Most likely.
* Without a doubt.
* Yes - definitely.
* As I see it, yes.
* You may rely on it.
* Chances are good.
* It is certain.
* It is decidedly so.
* Reply hazy, try again.
* Better not tell you now.
* Ask again later.
* Concentrate and ask again.
* Cannot predict now.
* My sources say no.
* Very doubtful.
* My reply is no.
* Chances not so good.
* Don't count on it.
I can't believe it (Score:5, Funny)
* Outlook not so good.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It prompted - "You won't know what happens when you select this until afterwards" and displayed - ?
My instructor told me, "Now you're just being a jerk."
My genuine advange update blows up... (Score:2)
Most of you must not remember win95/98 (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft is not making any sense. (Score:5, Insightful)
So ask yourself this... in the current situation, why is microsoft investing so heavily in WGA? Surely, there are no more licenses to be sold.
But apparently there is. Microsoft has so narrowly defined the definition of a "legal copy of windows" that you really can't be sure.
If my Dell is smoked, and I replace the motherboard, apparently, I don't have a valid license? Or maybe I do. MS will let me know when they decide.
If I've changed too many things too many times in my PC (RAM, HD, Memory, etc), apparently, I am a software pirate. Go figure.
Going back to my original point. If MS is saying 1 of 5 PC's fail this test, they're saying 20% of all PC's don't have a license for Windows. If I assume that 2% of new PC's are sold in the U.S. without a Windows license, then what happened to those other 18% of licenses?
It doesn't add up.
MS automated licensing (Score:5, Funny)
Joe: "Well, I'm not sure if--"
ID Processing Computer: "You have entered the license status of 'Not Sure'. Is this correct, Not sure?"
Joe: "No, it is not correct."
ID Processing Computer: "Thank you. 'Not' is correct. Is 'Sure' correct?
Joe: No, it's not. My license key is rm233-"
ID Processing Computer: "You've already confirmed that your license key starts with 'Not'."
ID Processing Computer: "Please confirm the last part of your key, 'Sure'."
Joe: "My ke-- The last part of my key is not sure. No."
ID Processing Computer: "Thank you. Your pirating status has been entered as Not Sure."
Joe: "What I mean is my status is legi--"
ID Processing Computer: "Confirmation is complete. Please wait while I tattoo your pirate status on all your word documents and email correspondences."
Joe: "Tattoo, wait what?!?"
you are a pirate ... arrrr (Score:3, Funny)
forcing this incredibly annoying song to go through your head all day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEBbu-wkKrs&mode=r
if that isn't a deterrent, I don't know what is