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Google to be Our Web-Based Anti-Virus Protector ?

Posted by Zonk on Fri May 11, 2007 12:19 PM
from the oh-google-is-there-anything-you-can't-do dept.
cyberianpan writes "For some time now, searches have displayed 'this site may harm your computer' when Google has tagged a site as containing malware. Now the search engine giant is is further publicizing the level of infection in a paper titled: The Ghost In The Browser. For good reason, too: the company found that nearly 1 in ten sites (or about 450,000) are loaded with malicious software. Google is now promising to identify all web pages on the internet that could be malicious - with its powerful crawling abilities & data centers, the company is in an excellent position to do this. 'As well as characterizing the scale of the problem on the net, the Google study analyzed the main methods by which criminals inject malicious code on to innocent web pages. It found that the code was often contained in those parts of the website not designed or controlled by the website owner, such as banner adverts and widgets. Widgets are small programs that may, for example, display a calendar on a webpage or a web traffic counter. These are often downloaded form third party sites. The rise of web 2.0 and user-generated content gave criminals other channels, or vectors, of attack, it found.'"
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  • 1 in 10? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Xoltri (1052470) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:23PM (#19086275)
    When I was living at home my sister must've found every last one of them. She was terrible for breaking the computer.
    • Re:1 in 10? (Score:5, Funny)

      by hal2814 (725639) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:34PM (#19086549)
      Well most downloaded malware comes through online games and porn. Which one did your sister have a hankering for?
    • I'm trying to figure out how the first post can be tagged as redundant. It doesn't work, unless one is taking into account the entire history of posting on /. And if that is the case, then everyone should just start off with (Score:-1, Redundant) to save mods the trouble.
  • by cyberianpan (975767) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:26PM (#19086331)
    This is potentially a very useful service but not all URLs we visit are from Google searches, some we still type in others as links from pages. However could we soon expect a Firefox add in that will filter all http requests through Google ? So then our new overlords will indeed know everything about our web-habits ?
  • be blocked?

    It found that the code was often contained in those parts of the website not designed or controlled by the website owner, such as banner adverts and widgets.
    Wouldn't it be far better to have safer browsers than to shut out (as many people or their organizations will do) 10% of the web?
    • Wouldn't it be far better to have safer browsers than to shut out (as many people or their organizations will do) 10% of the web?

      Websites from people or organizations accidently distributing viruses are probably not the most insightful or useful websites anyway.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      The answer to your first question is most likely yes.

      What it would do, hopefully, is force companies in the business of serving up ads for pages to clean up their act, or find themselves going out of business. When word gets out that XYZ web ad agency's ads led Google to flag ABC company's web page as having malware, those looking to whore search rank positions will drop them like a bad habit.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      They would.

      And the only thing a person who wants to distribute malware neeeds to do is some minimal robots.txt manipulation. The pages with the "bait" content can still be "crawlable" by google while the malware may sit in areas which have been made non-crawlable.

      Yet another stupid idea. Almost as stupid as the .bank domain. Or windows asking you to reboot just because the program you run was called "install" or had an MSI extension.
  • Pros and Cons (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PixieDust (971386) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:26PM (#19086347)
    I can see a lot of Pros and Cons to this. While certainly it's good that such a major player is taking an active and aggressive stance on this, I thinkk it's also going to cause a lot of people to have a false sense of security. And while this only affects users who search for pages (and that is a LOT of traffic), it's still going to bring the question to some users "Google tells me if a site is dangerous, what do I need malware protection for?"

    I surf almost exclusively in Windows, using IE (IE6 + XP Pro on Desktop, IE7 + Vista on laptop) with no protection, and I've not had an issue with malware in years. But most people's browsing habits aren't quite like mine.

    One other effect I can see this having, is let's say www.bigcompanyhere.com gets tagged as being potentially harmful. Now Google has done them a favor by alerting them to a security problem, which they can then address, and are likely to do so much quicker to try and minimize damage to their image.

    I'm fairly interested to see how this plays out.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      One other effect I can see this having, is let's say www.bigcompanyhere.com gets tagged as being potentially harmful. Now Google has done them a favor by alerting them to a security problem, which they can then address, and are likely to do so much quicker to try and minimize damage to their image.

      The next question would be, what are Google's plans/procedure for getting a site recrawled after a problem is corrected? I could see a company being be upset about not having a quick and effective way of getting this flag cleared after fixing the problem. Or, for that matter, a less scrupulous site operator removing the malware, getting cleared, then reintroducing it, and the repeat the cycle on the next crawl when it gets flagged again.

      While I think Google would like to just say that such a warning

    • "One other effect I can see this having, is let's say www.bigcompanyhere.com gets tagged as being potentially harmful. Now Google has done them a favor by alerting them to a security problem, which they can then address, and are likely to do so much quicker to try and minimize damage to their image."

      A favor? Google has likely killed their company, or at least it's online portion. Remember the big debate about how certain companies weren't being seen on the front page of google searches a while ago? Remember
      • Re:Pros and Cons (Score:4, Insightful)

        by fuzz6y (240555) on Friday May 11 2007, @02:22PM (#19088463)

        . . . even if they fix the minor problem that google flagged for them?

        minor problem my foot. Your notion that bigcompanyhere.com is entitled to grandma's money even if they're peddling spyware is ridiculous. Google gave grandma exactly what she wanted: a place to buy a widget without getting 0wn3d. The fact that they did no favors for bigcompanyhere.com is of no concern to her. Or me.

        I wouldn't be surprised if they (google) began offering "consulting" fees to remove the malware that google flagged from the companies site quickly

        I would be very surprised indeed. They don't offer consulting fees to get you back on the gravy train after you got penaltyboxed for purveying spam links

        Their job should not be to tell people where to search but rather to let them go where they want to go.

        Spyware central isn't where I want to go, even if they sell the cheapest RAM by four cents. Google, of course, is working for their shareholders and get paid by their advertisers, but they have a vested interest in keeping the searchers happy so the advertisers will keep paying them. The people whose sites are included in the results don't have some God given right to be on the first page so they can make money. Nevertheless, google has always tried to walk the tightrope between being overrun by crappy keyword farms and kicking out legitimate sites.

  • Already being done (Score:5, Informative)

    by zappepcs (820751) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:27PM (#19086361) Journal
    McAfee SiteAdvisor already does this for Google search results pages. This is nothing new. Its a FF extension and works well, though lately it has pointed out that proxy servers are trying to steal my identity when I try to use them.
  • by truthsearch (249536) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:28PM (#19086381) Homepage Journal
    Instead of just flagging sites for users, they should first add the detailed information to the Google Webmaster Tools. If it's third party software that's the problem inform the webmasters (at least those who use Google's tools) so they can take it down. Granted, it's their own fault for using third party software without enough investigation, but let them fix the problem before they're flagged for end users.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Um, no. A website can get hits 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and while some websites have webmasters able to give that much coverage, most do not. What about all of the users who could potentially become infected in the time between when Google spots the malware and the webmaster can fix the problem? How long would Google give them to fix it before just putting up a notice anyway? The point is to control the propagation of malware, not give webmasters a chance to stop sucking at life before warning end use
  • Huh (Score:5, Funny)

    by Realistic_Dragon (655151) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:28PM (#19086401) Homepage
    I browse the internet on my Linux box, running OS X with MacOnLinux. On OS X I run VMWare player hosting FreeBSD, where I have all the options turned to OFF. That runs Firefox, which connects to a web-2.0 version of Lynx. I use this to connect to another site which manually lets me enter netcat commands and read the result.

    My only complaint is that the pirates at Macrodobe STILL won't support my platform of choice! When will there be a flash player for people like me!
  • by WrongSizeGlass (838941) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:30PM (#19086447) Homepage
    Of course Google can protect us against everything and everyone (except the IRS, acne and that kid on the bike in Better Off Dead). They can do anything they say they can do ... and even stuff that they haven't thought of yet.

    Google is good, Google is great, and Google can do no wrong. Where on Earth did I ever get that pearl of wisdom? I read it on the internets, of course ... on some site that rhymes with froogle.
    • "except the IRS, acne and that kid on the bike in Better Off Dead"

      Google did take care of that kid on the bike for me. I don't know how they did it, but all I had to do was give Google $2 and they made him go away somehow.
    • I read it on the internets, of course ... on some site that rhymes with froogle.
      I wonder how the Froogles.com [zdnet.com] guy is feeling, now that Google calls that service Google Product Search [google.com].
  • right.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by mastershake_phd (1050150) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:31PM (#19086471) Homepage
    It found that the code was often contained in those parts of the website not designed or controlled by the website owner, such as banner adverts and widgets.
     
    So google is going to protect us from webpages that use less than reputable advertising and widget services. Hmm, maybe google should go into the advertising and widget service, oh wait...
  • by Bearhouse (1034238) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:32PM (#19086483)
    Some people don't like, or cannot use, Firefox or Opera, plus sensible add-ons such as anti-phising plug-ins, noscript...

    For example, one of my (very big) corp. customers is still running IE 7...

    When I challenged the support guys about this, they said 'that's OK, we detect & block most things at the firewall'...

    *sigh*

    When I pointed out that:
    1. That's bullshit.
    2. Lots of their managers travelled, and surfed the net via unsecure methods like hotels using proxy servers, public wifi, they said 'that's OK, they can only access the intranet and internal mail via VPN'.

    *double sigh*

    So now I advise people not to click on URLs directly, or type them in, but go via Google. It's better than nothing...
  • Just display something different, that is hide malware) when googlebot comes on your website.
  • end-users, man (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Skadet (528657) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:33PM (#19086521) Homepage

    It found that the code was often contained in those parts of the website not designed or controlled by the website owner, such as banner adverts and widgets.
    These days, almost nothing is designed by the website owner. Unless you're coding your own html/php/asp/pearl/ruby/python or at very least peruse the source code of the widgets you download to make sure there's nothing bad in there, you're just another end-user. And so this is not unexpected. End-users are the ones that "CL1CK TH3 PURPL3 M0NK3Y F0R ELEVENTY M1LL10N DOLLERZZZZ!!!" and install all sorts of crazy stuff on their machines. (Rabbit trail: one of my clients many years ago actually ASKED me to install the infamous purple monkey for him because he liked the text-to-speech). Whether it's on the desktop or on the web, people who will install anything without even a hint of research will continue to spread computer-borne diseases. It's one of the reasons I hate MySpace. What 13-year-old girl isn't going to think sparkly, smiling unicorns aren't cute? Of COURSE they're going to spread them around, even though they're attached to a malicious website.
  • http://www.usconstitution.net/ [usconstitution.net]
  • 450,000? (Score:5, Informative)

    by rueger (210566) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:34PM (#19086539) Homepage
    Sigh, are basic editorial skills too much to ask here? (I know, it's a rhetorical question).

    TFA does not say that "the company found that nearly 1 in ten sites (or about 450,000) are loaded with malicious software." This implies that there are a total of less than a half million sites that pose a risk.

    It said that of the 4.5 million pages examined, "about 450,000 were capable of launching so-called "drive-by downloads"..."

    It also notes that "A further 700,000 pages were thought to contain code that could compromise a user's computer, the team report."

    The problem is probably quite a bit larger than presented in the summary, even if one ignores the confusion between "sites" and "pages".
  • by Bearhouse (1034238) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:38PM (#19086633)
    "Our Web-Based Anti-Virus.."

    Is this not based more at phising scams, trojans and other exploits, rather than just virii?

    What's the main source of virus infections? Anybody got some research?

    I'm guesing it's swapping infected files, not visiting pr0n sites...

  • by MikeRT (947531) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:39PM (#19086645) Homepage
    Is how they plan on allowing sites to redeem themselves or explain why they had the software there in the first place. If some spammer embeds some malware in a comments section, and you later find it and clean it up, will you be able to get back into Google's good graces?
  • by Orinthe (680210) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:44PM (#19086745) Homepage
    It should be noted that the 10% of the web number is somewhat misleading--some comments seem to think it implies that 1 in every 10 pages one visits are likely to contain malware, or the like. Chances are, most of these pages are not worth visiting. This isn't in in every ten pages on yahoo.com or cnn.com, it's probably more like 8 in 10 pages on freekiddiepornplz.com and piratewarezserialzhackz.tv.
  • by PlayItBogart (1099739) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:45PM (#19086785)
    Is that anything like Ghost in the Shell?
  • by Animats (122034) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:55PM (#19086989) Homepage

    Here's the actual paper. [usenix.org] It's a Usenix paper.

    What they're doing is straightforward, and it's much like what many virus scanners do. First, they look at web pages to see if there's anything suspicious that requires further analysis. If there is, they load the page into Internet Explorer (of course) in a virtual machine, and see if it changes its environment. The better virus scanners have been doing something like that for a few years now, running possible viruses in some kind of sandbox. Although they usually don't go all the way and run Internet Explorer in a virtual machine. (Are you allowed to do that under Microsoft's current EULA for IE 7?)

    The main problem with Google's approach here is that it's after the fact. They won't notice a bad page until the next time they crawl it. Bad pages come and go so fast today that they'll always be behind. As the paper says, "Since many of the malicious URLs are too short-lived to provide statistically meaningful data, we analyzed only the URLs whose presence on the Internet lasted longer than one week."

    If Google implements this, the main effect will be to push attackers into changing site names for attack sites even faster.

    It's all so backward. What we need is to run most of Internet Explorer in a tightly sandboxed environment on the user's machine, so that when you close the window, any browser damage goes away. That would actually work.

    • What we need is to run most of Internet Explorer in a tightly sandboxed environment on the user's machine, so that when you close the window, any browser damage goes away.

      What we need is for Internet Explorer to actually implement a real sandbox, and make all the attack vectors that involve ActiveX go away.
  • I once wrote a document called Ghost in the Shell [google.com] which dealt with crypto/stego. I wonder if I can sue Google for stealing the concept name in order to pay back the anime producer who will sue me after they get wind of it..
  • Easy to defeat? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:59PM (#19087079) Journal
    The malicious websites just have to skip the malicious code when the user agent string is google crawler. Are they going to change the user agent string? Will it be considered pretexting (the euphemism for impersonating)?
  • It's very nice from Google or any other company to do so. But I think the solution is to teach people to surf smarter! I.e When they think they want to download a movie, there's no way to download .exe file! it's just plain stupidity. People need to read the messages they pop before they click yes on every message like : By Clicking yes 1Click-weather-adware-traybar will be installed.
    One day people will learn to surf smarter, meanwhile, we will help them becoming smarter.
  • by mblase (200735) on Friday May 11 2007, @01:24PM (#19087483)
    the Google study analyzed the main methods by which criminals inject malicious code on to innocent web pages. It found that the code was often contained in those parts of the website not designed or controlled by the website owner, such as banner adverts and widgets

    I am shocked, SHOCKED, to discover that a company that makes money selling ads on other websites would want to highlight malware-spouting ads by other companies.

    Yes, I agree that identifying these ads is a Good Thing. No, I don't think publicly-traded Google's intentions are entirely noble.
  • by madsheep (984404) on Friday May 11 2007, @01:26PM (#19087521) Homepage
    Regardless of whether not not this provides a "false sense of security" it is a good idea. It would certainly be better than nothing. It won't really provide a false sense of security anymore than a phishing tool bar, antivirus software, or e-mail filtering. Right now people search for stuff on Google and click the link. There is no false sense of security. People are already assuming the websites are safe. If Google steps in and says "hey, this site isn't safe", then at least people have advance notice and choice.

    I see references to common things like widgets, but I don't see that as the most commonly attacked/exploited part of websites. Sure it's a real issue and is common (yes AdSense was hit with this kind of attack), but I hope they look for a lot more. One of the most common these days are the surprise addition to website sources of iframes with widths of 0. Or new and sudden references to .js files or new obfuscated JavaScript. If they look for all of this and possibly analyze/process it, they can go a long way to stop this type of malware. This feature if implemented correctly is a win for everyone on the Internet... well except the bad guys. :)
    • by Aldur42 (1042038) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:30PM (#19086439)
      Maybe, but any reduction in the number of infected PCs is win for the entire net.
    • Does it matter? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Radon360 (951529) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:43PM (#19086729)

      I would hope that Google is looking at it more from the perspective of what is generally good for the betterment of the entire internet. Who cares if it directly benefits users of Microsoft product users more than Linux/OSX users? Bottom line, it is potentially one less infection, and one less pwned computer in a bot network. Less infections means less machines that are probing ports on random addresses, or used in brute force attacks, such as DoS attempts.

      Don't get too tied up in the means, but rather what the potential end results, good or bad, might be.

      • Do we really want to make it easier to identify malware sites so evil-doers will have a ready-made list of sites to entrap the unsuspecting? At least going through Google, you get a "head's up" first. With a direct link, you don't even get that...
    • by LurkerXXX (667952) on Friday May 11 2007, @12:45PM (#19086789)
      Do Linux or Apple users not mind when a bot-net army takes down a website they are trying to access, or clogs the pipes?

      Do Linux or Apple users not mind all the spam to their inbox from hijacked machines?

      Do Linux or Apple users not have to worry about some family member being taken in by a phishing scheme, hosted on a hijacked machine?

      Do Linux or Apple users not mind tons of hijacked machines probing any SSH or other ports you might have open, looking for vulnerabilities or doing dictionary password attacks?

      Less hijacked machines on the internet helps us all. Be you a Windows, Linux, Apple, BSD, or other user. Not caring about hijacked windows boxes because you are leet enough to use Linux is stupid.
    • by kevlarcowboy (996973) on Friday May 11 2007, @01:06PM (#19087193) Journal

      Since most of this malware attacks windows machines, isn't google helping microsoft more than it's helping linux or apple?

      Since morality is defined by the desire to limit human suffering, protecting innocent people who don't know better from malware is always going to be for a greater good. People shouldn't have to get their OS reloaded every few months.

      Not running your choice of OS doesn't make them bad, and is a startling simplistic world view. There's no "helping Microsoft" here; they are trying to protect all Internet users. Since those people are using Google search, it's really more like trying to serve their customers better. Since all their customers are Internet users; so ask yourself: what is concern #1 amongst Internet users?

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Since morality is defined by the desire to limit human suffering

        Really? I won't say that human suffering is good or anything, but I think that's a pretty short-sighted definition. I mean, if I just killed everyone there would be no more suffering.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        it's harder to insatll malware on mac osx and linux then it is on windows.

        So if you install malware on OS X or Linux, it's on Windows?

        Not unless you have Wine running, too.
        • Actually, I seem to recall that someone tried to run some Windows viruses in Wine.

          Alas, Wine is not yet fully compatible with Windows, and it showed.