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Google Planning New Undersea Cable Across Pacific?
Posted by
CowboyNeal
on Sat Sep 22, 2007 09:11 AM
from the stranger-things-have-been-sponsored dept.
from the stranger-things-have-been-sponsored dept.
tregetour writes "Google is planning a multi-terabit undersea communications cable across the Pacific Ocean for launch in 2009, Communications Day reports: 'Google would not strictly confirm or deny the existence of the Unity plan today, with spokesman Barry Schnitt telling our North American correspondent Patrick Neighly that "Additional infrastructure for the Internet is good for users and there are a number of proposals to add a Pacific submarine cable. We're not commenting on any of these plans." However, Communications Day understands that Unity would see Google join with other carriers to build a new multi-terabit cable. Google would get access to a fibre pair at build cost handing it a tremendous cost advantage over rivals such as MSN and Yahoo, and also potentially enabling it to peer with Asia ISPs behind their international gateways — considerably improving the affordability of Internet services across Asia Pacific.'"
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evesdropping requirements (Score:4, Insightful)
Because you know there's no way "homeland security" is letting that happen without monitoring.
You know with these kinds of resources, if Google ever did turn evil, we'd never figure it out until it was far too late...
Re:evesdropping requirements (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:evesdropping requirements (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
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I don't think I saw that eposide?
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The perceived difficulty with tapping fibre seems to be from the assumption that any interruption in data transmission will be noticed and instantly treated as suspicious. I think it's possible that a quick fibre cut and splice on an underwater cable could be perceived as nothing but a temporary and unimportant glitch by Telco's.
It may have been done before [zdnet.com]. And what are they going to do if a tap is detected? Rip up the whole thing and start over or just ignore it?
As the AC points out a repeater is probably a good point to tap. But then what do you do with the connection? You will need to run another cable the same size from the tap to a shore based facility to monitor the traffic. Now that would be noticeable!
Maybe the NSA tells the operators that they have a choice;
1) You can give us access at the end point (like AT&T [wired.com]).
2)
Re:evesdropping requirements (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
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Re:evesdropping requirements (Score:4, Informative)
NZ, Australia, Japan and now something extra in Hawaii. Asia is now so tapped.
Google is of no interest, the NSA can tap at any point they want.
http://cryptome.org/google/kunia-us.htm [cryptome.org]
Parent
Google an NSA front ... (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
So the best way is to get as much of the worlds data moving via NSA friendly countries.
For everything else, there's the USS Jimmy Carter to bend the fiber.
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Do no evil .... (Score:3, Interesting)
This may have been a brilliant move on Googles' part. Fully cooperate with the Chinese governments' "Great Firewall" until they could put themselves in a position to undermine that authority.
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Re:Do no evil .... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
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Google operates at pleasure of Chinese government (Score:3, Insightful)
The Google office, all the data it collected on Chinese individuals, and one end of that cable all exist in Chinese territory. Google operates at the pleasure of the Chinese government. The day Google attempts to move against that government is the day all Google's property and data becomes property of the governmen
Great? (Score:3, Interesting)
I think it is great if it is true. I like the redundancy plan. But, since they don't specify the route, I am very skeptical. On the other hand, who am I to talk. I have never put a job opening on Monster looking for a "submarine cable negotiator." That is frickin' hilarious.
Me? I would go up through Alaska, through Russia via the Bering Sea. Cap'n Sig would do most of the work for me on the Northwestern. I would avoid doing a Portland-to-Tokyo route because of the ring-o-fire thingy.
I fell in to a burning ring of fire, I went down,down,down and the flames went higher. And my mod went lower.
Re:Great? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's amusing that you would mention that, because the first transatlantic telegraph cable (well... the first project - there were a few abortive attempts as well as some attempts that stopped working soon after completion) was in direct competition with a "do it the long way" overland route via Russia that was being built by Western Union. The first long-lasting undersea cable eventually finished the race first in 1866, and the Western Union attempt was abandoned the next year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_telegraph_cable [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Union_Telegraph_Expedition [wikipedia.org]
Parent
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Thanks. Very interesting. I think I just saw something on TV regarding the anniversary of the first round-the-world telegraph link. And the Russian thing did eventually work out and was, obviously, a big part of it.
I was able to actually touch some of the fiber cable that they lay undersea these days, and it is some amazing stuff. If the Martians vaporize the planet someday, I'm convinced that this cable will be the only thing left.
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There are still people who haven't read Neal Stephenson's Mother Earth, Mother Board [wired.com]?
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OK. Sorry. I was being more flip than anything else. But, I do stand by my conclusion.
Undersea cables are notoriously difficult to fix. And hugely expensive to fix. Sometimes, the "fix" is to lay entire new cable. "Fairly" easy in the Phillipines/Australia/Indonesia area (and it happens all the time), but hard when it comes to long distances like Portland to Tokyo.
My point, if I had one, is to keep it close to land. Especially when laying long stretches in the ring-o-fire. "I was modded down, down, down, an
What about the cost of US internet? (Score:5, Insightful)
Last time I checked, Japan and SK had amazing speeds (10-100mbit) for very affordable prices. It's still a matter of government intervention, not corporate meddling.
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Geez. You managed to distill leftist philosophy into one sentence. That's impressive. South Korea and Japan's impressive availability is a matter of advantageous population distribution and relatively low cost of infrastructure because of that distribution. This situation will never, ever happen in the U.S., even if politicians try to wave magic Government-Issued wands.
Re:What about the cost of US internet? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes and no.
The Feds, over the past decade, did wave such a magic card at the Telcos and the billions of dollars that were inside that card that were supposed to be used for such a buildout just vanished. Gone. Never to be seen again. "Information superhighway" my ass.
So the situation could obtain in the U.S. but only if we remove a major stumbling block: the major ISP themselves. Believe me, the investment capital would be available if the people willing to put up the money knew that they would receive a return on that investment. Interestingly, Google is investing heavily in infrastructure, but they're not giving it to the incumbents. They know better than anyone that it would be a waste of money.
Parent
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The Feds, over the past decade, did wave such a magic card at the Telcos and the billions of dollars that were inside that card that were supposed to be used for such a buildout just vanished. Gone. Never to be seen again. "Information superhighway" my ass.
Boy, I sure am glad we have that grand and august institution, the US Congress, to investigate such matters and bring justice for the people. Surely this will be at the forefront of their agenda, right after condemning political organizations for exercising their free speech and rubber-stamping war budget requests. Gentlemen, we are in good hands.
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Although it is really entertaining to read all of these conspiracy theories, they really have no basis in fact or common telecom practice. I have been in the telecom business for 15 years, and this is just one of many such deals that happen every few years. For example, check out Global Crossing's international crossings [globalcrossing.com] on their network map.
This deal has nothing to do with making Internet access cheaper for anyone. What it is about is the ability to capture significant revenue by owning the transmission
Sounds good (Score:5, Insightful)
As I understand it, Australia (and probably everyone else, for that matter) has been getting reamed by the USA as regards Internet peering arrangements. Bandwidth costs have always been higher here, and it's not all to do with a lack of local competition, although that used to be a credible story back when Telstra was charging twenty cents a megabyte for permanent dial-up connectivity. These days the economic pressure is mostly conspicuous for the fact that local hosting services are so expensive. If Google busts up that cosy little oligopoly, I'll love them to bits for it. To gigabits, even. (Sorry. Preemptive pun. Someone had to do it.)
Is this a part of Google's answer to the whole carrier sabre-rattling about non-neutrality and wanting a slice of Google's profits? There's no better way to ensure fair treatment than to provide your own infrastructure. Is this Google's way of saying to the carriers, "get over it, guys -- bandwidth is a fricken commodity now, and we're going to compete with you to make it so, so kiss your old monopoly profits goodbye." There's a high barrier to entry in this market, and you'd be mad to buy your way in only to compete all the profits out of it -- unless you happen to be a major consumer of bandwidth yourself, like Google.
Must... not... get... hopes... up...
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Africa (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Africa (Score:4, Insightful)
Because businesses function on making money, not just fulfilling "needs."
Undersea cables are hideously expensive and the company putting one in _needs_ to have a reasonable chance of recouping those costs.
While Africa may "need" internet, the fact that companies aren't already in a race to provide Africa with internet is a de-facto signal that multiple companies don't think they have a business case to provide it.
I need a "Ferrari" but the business community isn't in a hurry to provide ME with one either.
Parent
Nice (Score:3, Insightful)
They will just snoop everybodies traffic....
One way to achieve Net Neutrality... (Score:2, Insightful)
They are buying one fiber pair (Score:5, Informative)
As for "considerably improving the affordability of Internet services across Asia Pacific,'" I don't follow that at all. Google doesn't sell transit. The new cable might do that, but not because of Google - because real ISPs will get other fiber pairs and use them to sell transit.
Next, we'll get articles about how Google's corporate jets will revolutionize air transport in North America ! (At least, for Google execs.)
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New Google Hire (Score:2, Funny)
FTFA: WTF is a Capacity Bubble? (Score:2)
...What?
Wikipedia article - Submarine Communications Cable (Score:5, Interesting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable [wikipedia.org]
I particularly found very interesting the map with all the undersea cables in the world. Pretty cool.
Re:Wikipedia article - Submarine Communications Ca (Score:3, Interesting)
Neal Stephenson article on cable laying (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wikipedia article - Submarine Communications Ca (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.12/ffglass_pr.html [wired.com]
It was posted (here I think) on a previous related story, it's very long, and I would not have expected to find the subject interesting, but the article makes it fascinating and very readable.
ZOMG! They're going to do it! (Score:3, Funny)
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Submarine means "under water", you subliterate.
Ill buy it (Score:2)
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fibre is currency in this century.