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Bypass Windows With Fast-Boot Technology
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:21 AM
from the what-the-hell-does-this-even-mean dept.
from the what-the-hell-does-this-even-mean dept.
thatnerdguy writes "Phoenix Technologies, a developer of BIOS software, is working on a new technology called Hyperspace that will allow you to instantly load certain applications like email, web browser and media player, without loading windows. It could even lead to tailoring of computers to even more specific demographics, like a student laptop preloaded with word processor, email and an IM all available at the press of a button." Why is this story setting off alarms in my brain?
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Whoah (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Whoah (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=885&num=1 [phoronix.com]
It does use Linux BTW and the Motherboard is very Linux Friendly.
Parent
Re:Whoah (Score:5, Interesting)
I was thinking that building apps directly into the BIOS is just like having single purpose Word Processors back in the day, but the technology in the article does sound excellent, and for example talks about running an antivirus scanner in the BIOS to save on overhead even while you're using another OS for your applications, so it could actually be very handy. I think it makes use of virtualisation to help get around the whole driver thing, not very sure at this point though, as I dont know much about virtualisation, especially on the hardware side.
Parent
your sig (Score:5, Informative)
Wild turkeys can fly. Domestic turkeys are too fat.
http://www.kidzone.ws/animals/turkey.htm [kidzone.ws]
(search for "unable to fly")
As someone who's had flocks of wild turkeys fly over his head, I can attest to their ability to fly first hand. I've also seen them fly away after being shot. That's why you always aim for the head; their feathers are too tough for shotgun pellets.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Not really, pellets will penerate their feather just fine. The problem is that their vital organs are both well padded by non-vital tissue and they are fairly small. Their head and neck offer much more direct routes to inflict fatal damage. A gut shot wild turkey can run for miles before expiring and bleed very little in the process, rendering it untrackable.
As for their ability to fly it is limited. In the sig joke you
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Rootkit applications? (Score:2)
Re:Rootkit applications? (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Rootkit applications? (Score:5, Insightful)
We hold this truth to be self-evident, that those in Congress who vote on legislation they have not read, have not represented their constituents. They have misrepresented them.
Sadly, I think that signing something they haven't even read is rather strongly representative of their constituents.
Parent
"Technology" (Score:5, Insightful)
Hot on the heels of recent bootloader stories (Score:5, Funny)
"With the exception of Apple" (Score:5, Funny)
Because (at the risk of being accused of Trolling), Apple will eventually bring out iRightNow which will pretty much do the same thing but in White only and at three times the price?
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Troll! (Score:2)
Re:"With the exception of Apple" (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
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Just make sure you don't do this with your iPhone if you're outside the US [slashdot.org].
Re:"With the exception of Apple" (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:"With the exception of Apple" (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah yes, eventually I figured out how to do it with my old Toshiba, considering how the default mode was hibernate, and nowhere does it recommend or even mention that an alternate, faster sleep mode was available, and indeed the option was hidden deep within the guts of the OS.
Apple's "it just works" mantra isn't rocket science, among other things it's about being non-stupid with your default settings, and exposing features in a usable, easy to find manner.
Joe user isn't going to know the difference between hibernate and sleep, he just wants his machine to be snappy and work. So while the underlying technology is no different, one machine gets a much more favorable impression.
Parent
Re:"With the exception of Apple" (Score:5, Interesting)
If I close the lid and put it away, it's dumb enough to run its battery completely dead. I even have "Critical Battery Alarm" set to Hibernate at 3%. But if I close my lid and put it in my desk drawer, the next morning the battery is completely dead. Even after I plug it back in I have to go through the 'reboot' sequence all over again.
My Macbook pro is the exact opposite. If I forget about it it'll hibernate itself. I don't see why this isn't part of any OS as is. If my battery runs low enough it'll hibernate itself. Next time I plug it in, it automatically comes back from where it was. XP allows me that extra 30 seconds of run time but then again when I do find power I have to start from scratch. My Macbook Pro has an "uptime" of a little over a week (Since the Leopard install) even though I've run the battery 'dead' twice because the OS is smart enough to shut itself down properly
I would be willing to bet that Linux has all of these features too. But I would also be willing to bet that they don't work as seamlessly as OS X.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Close, but not quite. It won't be called iRightNow, it will have a stupid French name. Also, you didn't mention that unlike the competition, Apple's implementation will be useful.
nice (Score:2)
Um.. (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't this called Linux?
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Similar to Virtualization technologies (Score:5, Insightful)
My concern would be data security, as if you wanted to run a word processor or any app that needs access to your hard drive or thumb drive, you would have to have appropriate security built into the miniOS to handle reading and writing. An option would be to provide some onboard flash storage for Hyperspace to use. How much can you enable the end user to customize the user experience without opening up the system to security risks?
Sounds familiar... (Score:2)
Didn't they sell a device like this years ago? It had a stylish design, and a below-cost price with monthly subscriptions, it got hacked almost instantly to run Linux, it prompted a few hundred "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these!" comments and then disappeared...?
No brainer. (Score:5, Interesting)
People always say, "Well all this person does is check email! Why do they need a fancy computer/operating system/office suite." The real question should be, why do they need an OS at all?
I love my desktop, and I'll probably keep one until they get something that I can wear that does all the same stuff, but I'm fricking sick to death of dealing with people's computer issues, when they only really need a web browser. Handing out knoppix disks works well enough, as a stopgap, but reducing things to a more simple state is highly desirable.
Re:No brainer. (Score:5, Insightful)
By the time all is said and done, they do a heck of a lot more than just email and more than what probably makes sense for some trimmed down applications.
Parent
Bypassing Windows and... (Score:3, Insightful)
Similarly I don't think there's ever a time when I want to run just a word processor. I want an MP3 player for some tunes. I want a web browser for fact checking. I want Freecell because I'm lazy and rarely do any actual word processing.
Basically what I'm saying is that I want a proper OS, not something that runs one app at a time. I doubt I'm alone in that. Now, give me a decent OS that runs lots of things loaded into an area of Flash memory so it starts up quickly and I'm yours.
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Basically what I'm saying is that I want a proper OS, not something that runs one app at a time. I doubt I'm alone in that. Now, give me a decent OS that runs lots of things loaded into an area of Flash memory so it starts up quickly and I'm yours.
It's things listed in your post that popular OS vendors have forgotten about... We need to be pandered to. There's a reason that Vista sales are in the toilet, Linux hasn't been able to break into the market in a decade and why Apple is a cool, but small niche
This is so cool (Score:2)
Bypass Windows boot-up... (Score:2)
Great Idea (Score:2)
Really, all we users want are day to day applications.
It's high time we got rid of all of this unnecessary bloat, like VM systems and network protocols. What did they ever do for us anyway?
Sleep works for me (Score:2, Interesting)
Sleep mode takes care of this while preserving the full functionality of your setup. Why have a hobbled OS?
Toy (Score:5, Interesting)
For example:
- Ancient versions of AMIBIOS had a Windows 3.11-like mouse-operated GUI (I had one on a 486 PC purchased in 1995). It was a lot easier to use than "modern" text-based BIOSes in 2007. And if the computer had no mouse, you could use the keyboard for navigation.
- I bought an ASUS motherboard about six years ago and it had a feature that spoke about any failures, e.g. no video card or bad memory, instead cryptic beeps that are common today.
Besides, phones and PDAs are "boot" faster not because the initialization procedure is faster (my PDA boots in about 30 seconds) but because they sleep instead of powering off.
What is this 'booting'? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nasty issues to be handled in embedded BIOS applications:
I guess you can cram this in 4M of flash if you are top notch programmer, 128M if you are not. Either way the hardware won't add more than $20 to the cost of the laptop, so I suppose it is a good thing, as long as you can disable it.
It does open an interesting option: If a user only needs email and web access, they don't need to install an OS at all.
No OS? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm sorry, I can't use that word processor. It doesn't support my video card?
Seems more retro than advanced (Score:4, Interesting)
It was commonplace for early home computers to come with applications in firmware. BASIC programming was provided in ROM on all Commodore coputers except their IBM compatibles, Apple II series did as well as did many Radio Shack models and the Atari XL and XE 8-bit computers. Even the original IBM PC had BASIC in the firmware. Early 16-bits like the Atari ST had a highly modified variant of CP/M ported to the 68000 architecture upon which the GEM graphical interface resided--and on all but the earliest models it was all resident in ROM (can you imagine trying to get Vista on firmware cost-effectively?).
The example you give is even more ironic because the Coleco ADAM our family bought in 1984 had--you guessed it--a word processor preloaded in ROM (it bank-switched between the BIOS it had called "EOS" and the "SmartWriter" word processor depending on whether a bootable cassette or floppy was found in any of the drives). The idea is not new at all--it is a very OLD idea being resurrected because for end users it WAS a good idea to put the software you used the most to get you going faster, especially given that hard drives were rare on home computers and slower floppies and even slowere cassettes were the only practical alternative.
The biggest disadvantage was that firmware was not easily updatable. When software was simpler people just lived with the bugs until an updated hardware revision was out but with todays complex software (in some cases poorly written and poorly architectd at that) requires frequent updates as bugs are more numerous and more dangerous to your data (since we now have to deal with the internet). Now with flash memory technology having matured the updating problem is gone...the only thing left to contend with is cost (much more than a hard drive, plus software is so bloated).
There is another factor too--hardware has become more intelligent, as have operating systems and over time the traditional BIOS in the PC platform has become almost irrelevant beyond reverse compatibility. New hardware and current OSes use next to nothing in the BIOS anymore. So, creating applications in the "BIOS" is the way these companies try to stay relevant. It's important to note, however, that BIOSes are mostly proprietary to the point that it could be difficult to write Free software on the platform, and in juristictions with DMCA-like copyright regulations even illegal (as the DMCA is often used to restrict the ability to reverse-engineer). That's why Free software BIOS projects are important, and why Free hardware is something that must get more attention, because the parts of the BIOS that remain relevant happen to be the parts that make the wide variety of motherboards out there software-compatible with each other.
What an innovation! (Score:3, Informative)
A simple yet functional OS and applications on a chip! Why didn't someone think of doing this before!?
OH WAIT, THEY DID AND MICROSOFT PUSHED THEM OUT OF THEIR MARKET AND SENT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS [wikipedia.org]
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Re:old technology (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.linuxbios.org/ [linuxbios.org]
Parent
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Perhaps their proposal can do a better job, but it doesn't appear to be new ground.
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Indeed, my Dell laptop has a button specifically for booting into a mini-OS to directly access files in this manner. Unfortunately, there isn't enough difference between this limited boot and a regular boot to justify its use.
Perhaps their proposal can do a better job, but it doesn't appear to be new ground.
You are talking about the MediaDirect feature. It actually uses Windows XP embeded. The first time its loaded it loads fully. Then it writes what is basically a hibernation file. So all subsequent boots load this hibernation file which brings the system to a fully running state faster than booting Windows XP Embeded, and much faster than booting all of normal Windows from scratch. (But there is not enough difference in loading speed to justify loading MediaDirect instead of hibernated Windows XP.)
The mai
Re:Why? (Score:5, Funny)
As to why it's going off....maybe he put AM instead of PM?
Parent
Re:Sounds possible (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
um, linux, windows and osx aren't the only operating systems out there. i thought you dumbasses should know.
True, but who is going to be running AIX on their home pc?
anyway, having a subset of features running without windows is likely to be a miserable failure. Most consumers probably turn on their PCs about once per day, and once it is booted, all of their applications are available for use. Why would these people then want to reboot, to get a subset of these applications (or vica versa, rebooting to open some pdf/flash file that the bios rom doesn't have a reader for, etc)?
If these people wanted to be u
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