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Facial Recognition Vending Machine Debuts

Posted by samzenpus on Tue Nov 13, 2007 07:23 PM
from the no-more-candy-for-you-chubby dept.
Peter Hanami writes "Yesterday in Japan, a facial recognition vending machine went on sale that can tell the age of the buyer based on a range of features including number of wrinkles, bone structure and how the skin sits on the face. It was developed as a way to stop minors from buying cigarettes from vending machines. In Japan, cigarette vending machines are a common feature on the street and presently few safeguards exist to stop younger users from purchasing them. This new machine is seen as a positive step to reduce under age smoking. If the machine doesnt deem the buyer to be of suitable age, 20 years old, the buyer must provide further identification such as a drivers licence."
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[+] IT: Magazine Photos Fool Age-verification Cameras 309 comments
gregor-e writes "Japan has scheduled a full-scale rollout of visual age-verification on cigarette vending machines. Unfortunately for them, a Sankei Sports news reporter has determined that this system can be fooled by holding up a magazine photo of an adult."
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  • by Kazrath (822492) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @07:28PM (#21343947)
    This was obviously created in Japan with Japanese in mind. I am curious "out of the box" how it functions against other nationalities who's facial features are significantly different. I would suspect it would be unable to identify the age and require an identification card of some sort.

    Well at least it is a fairly novel idea.
    • "and require an identification card of some sort."

      Ah, so you read the summary. Very bold of you, sir.

      FTFS: "the buyer must provide further identification such as a drivers licence."
    • I am curious "out of the box" how it functions against other nationalities who's facial features are significantly different.
      Same way it deals with Japanese facial features. Very poorly.

      Seriously, the difference between "races" is hardly so vast that the algorithms will have to be rewritten from scratch. In fact, they probably won't have to be rewritten at all. Are there really any facial feature that are unique to geographic regions?
      • Seriously, the difference between "races" is hardly so vast that the algorithms will have to be rewritten from scratch. In fact, they probably won't have to be rewritten at all. Are there really any facial feature that are unique to geographic regions?

        Are you kidding? My Vietnamese girlfriend always jokingly asks me why all Westerners look so old, and I ask her why all Asians are so small (or why they look so young). If the algorithm isn't a learning one, it absolutely will not succeed at this task. I witnessed the introduction of an Israeli girl and a Japanese woman. The Israeli asked in English, "How old are you?", and the Japanese woman said, "Thirty." My Israeli friend said, "No, you couldn't possibly be thirteen..." She misheard, because this woman

  • by Nyktos (198946) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @07:28PM (#21343957)
    If it's that good, why don't they just require standard government ID and use the face recognizer to determine if the buyer is the person on the ID and let the ID provide the age?
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      That does sound a lot more sensible.

      I guess you haven't figured out how to think like the Japanese yet.

    • Mod points to parent of this.

      Then again, I'm not versed in the law in Japan. Perhaps they have laws preventing the use of the ID in this manner (unlike how the US SSN was only (broken) promised to be used for limited government purposes), and others preventing industry from providing its own IDs for use with their devices (i.e. a card for use in certain brands of cigarette vending machines, a card for use in certain brands of alcohol vending machines, a card for use in certain brands of pornography vending
    • by arth1 (260657) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @08:11PM (#21344347) Homepage Journal
      Because you might not want the information that you buy cigarettes to enter a database? (Which could, for example, be used to deny health insurance later.)
      Or you believe in the right to be anonymous and not have a government issued ID card?
      • If you're worried about your government ID connecting you to cigarette usage, you're probably *also* not going to be happy with a face-recognizing visual scan that can be passed to the government and linked to your government photo :-P

        (Which could, for example, be used to deny health insurance later.)

        Oh, yeah, I forgot about the right to defraud insurance companies by getting the rates of a non-smoker when you smoke.
    • If it's that good, why don't they just require standard government ID and use the face recognizer to determine if the buyer is the person on the ID and let the ID provide the age?

      How often am I supposed to go in for a new picture / have new facial recognition meta info encoded onto this card? My drivers license is good for 5 years, and I'm now 44 years old. At 49 will I look enough the same?

      This technology has potential for AI programming for robots and such, but should only be used as a "one of many" inp

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Maybe the Japanese government doesn't want to invest billions in a civil liberty infringing national ID card scheme when they know it wouldn't actually stop kids buying cigarettes?
  • Why not just have people use their driver's license every time?

    Wouldn't the comparatively simple low tech solution be better? Wouldn't even older smokers rather have a reliable system that one that's probably going to deny them cigarettes when it misreads their faces?

    • Deny... me... my... cigarettes?!

      Kamikaze the machine!
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Why not just have people use their driver's license every time?

      A lot of people in Japan don't have driver's licences.

      Anyway, the whole idea is to make the transaction quick and not require the purchaser to find a card. It's an initiative by the cigarette machine makers to make their machines more acceptable, not by the government to reduce cigarette smoking by youngsters.

    • I don't know what the situation is like in Japan, but in many countries most people don't have driver's licenses -- moreso in places of high population density.
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      Why not just have people use their driver's license every time?

      Because a lot of people don't have driver's licenses here, and thus there is no standard ID card to read, nor is there any requirement that you actually own one. A fair amount of people will actually use their bankbook or similar document, and for signatures you'd use a hanko.

  • by Chris Burke (6130) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @07:34PM (#21344027) Homepage
    How come no matter what button I push this damn vending machine keeps spitting out Clearasil?!
  • They've already got those [nytimes.com]. Heck, these vending machines can even run away [reuters.com].
  • by Matt Perry (793115) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @07:42PM (#21344137)
    So some kid takes a picture of his grandfather's face, prints it out on his color printer, and then holds the printout up in front of the camera. I wonder if the software will realize whether it's looking at a real face or not.
    • I do not know about this device, but if I was in charge to make one, I would add some feature to check the depth, so the wrinkles would be detected by refraction not by looking at the picture, or even better you could try to match the surface to the picture.
    • You need one of these [resultspage.com].
  • by myowntrueself (607117) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @07:55PM (#21344221)
    No, not for the vending machines, but so that blind-drunk guys can get a machines 'expert opinion' as to whether their prospective, er, 'date' is under age or not...
  • Hmmmm (Score:5, Interesting)

    by djupedal (584558) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @08:02PM (#21344271)
    I can recall when vending machines in Japan sold cigarettes, coffee, beer, condoms & pantyhose...all out of the same machine. As Slim would say "That's a goddamn 3 day vacation in Las Vegas".

    Some of the beer machines would power off at a certain time to try to discourage street drunks.

    When asked what kept under age drinkers from using the beer vending machines, the locals would reply "well, they just don't..."

    Certain enterprising business men would pay the local high school girls for used underwear. Then they would shrinkwrap them, along with a signed Polaroid and put them into those arcade 'claw' machines. Had a thriving business until the neighborhood moms began wondering why their daughters were always asking for new Hello Kitty undies. The moms went to the cops. The cops were stumped, at first, as they had a hard time finding a specific law on the books that the pre-owned-panty vendors were breaking.

    Finally, the cops decided to apply an antiques law that says you have to be licensed accordingly for the sale of certain 'used' or aged goods. No permit to sell antiques? Come with us...you're under arrest - and don't forget the evidence :)
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Parent post makes me think we need a "+1 Off-Topic" mod.
      • Parent post makes me think we need a "+1 Off-Topic" mod.

        Perhaps "+1 Better Topic" would be more appropriate? "Off-Topic" has a somewhat negative connotation. Also, it would go well with the proposed "-1 Too Informative" mod.

  • Whats next? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Matt867 (1184557) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @08:31PM (#21344495)
    Whats next? A machine that calculates your weight based on a picture it takes of you and if it deems you obese refuses to sell you a coke?
  • Don't most people who smoke look alot older than they are anyways ?

    When I was a kid & smoked, all my friends & I looked older than we actually were because we'd started smoking when we were about 13.
    • Yup. I'm 25 and I look damn-near 35 thanks to smoking.

      A plus, though. I can attract most any hot MILF within seconds (always fun to screw with the other guys.) Minus? I'm gay, so it doesn't really affect me (even more fun, they know I'm gay and they still can't get the girl from me.)
      • It's payback for when the guys slapped eachothers asses & said "Good Game !" on the way to the shower during college isn't it ?
  • by psoriac (81188) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @08:39PM (#21344573)
    As far as I can tell, Japanese women between the ages of 14 and 32 all look the same age.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      How did an obviously racist comment get modded +3 informative? Funny, maybe, but informative?
      • by GiMP (10923) on Wednesday November 14 2007, @01:45AM (#21346735) Homepage
        It is not racist for someone to be unable to visually determine some else's age. Neither is it racist for someone to be unable to tell two people apart (eh, "all asians look the same to me"). If he was blind and he said, "all asians, blacks, and whites look the same to me", would that be an issue? No, it would be the truth, because to a blind person, they do look the same. Someone with an untrained eye is nearly as incapable as a blind person at facial pattern recognition.

        The whole "you're being racist" thing itself is racism, making an assumption that the other person might be racist just because the other person isn't of your race, is racist. If the parent post was asian, but adopted by a white family without contact with other asians, and said, "I cannot tell two asians apart", would it still be racist?

        Facial pattern recognition is a learned ability, and each race has a unique set of facial patterns. You cannot expect someone that has had minimal contact with people outside their own race to be able to detect these differences.

        I think the only reason that people get offended because they hear someone say, "<race> all look alike" is because people dislike being grouped by their race, even if there is no ill-will meant. If you're going to be upset by this, you shouldn't stop there. Tell doctors to stop testing black people for Sickle Cell Anemia, because it is racist for them to think that the decease could possibly be more prevalent in those with a particular heritage or skin color -- after all, "race is only skin deep", right? Oh, thats right, those people would rather be healthy than complain that they're being singled out for screenings based on their race.

        The truth is that different races have different physical attributes which can cause certain challenges for those not intimately familiar with those differences; be it facial recognition to recognize someone's age or sex, or be it differences that affect a medical practitioner's ability to save a life.
  • by CrazyJim1 (809850) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @08:59PM (#21344751) Journal
    Put a Vending Machine with masks of old people in it next to it. Intelligent kids can buy cigs for their friends and make a profit too. Everyone wins.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      And of course, what about people who look older than they actually are? I had a friend in high school who liked he was almost thirty before he even turned twenty.
      • There's not really much you can do about it other than require an ID for everyone regardless of age. In that case, you'd still have a problem with faked ids which this system wouldn't solve anyways.
        • >"There's not really much you can do about it other than require an ID for everyone regardless of age"

          You can always just ban cigarette vending machines ... other places have done it.

      • that was from all the smoking...
      • I had a friend in high school who liked he was almost thirty before he even turned twenty.

        Maybe he looked thirty because he was smoking too much.

        And maybe that made it easier for him to get cigarettes from the machine... which let him smoke more...

        • And those who look far younger than they are. I recall an embarrassing gaffe where a friend of a friend offered to drive us to some store. He nipped into the house and emerged with the keys, started the car and away we went. I asked if his mom knew he drove her car. Ooops. He was 18 and it was his car, though he looked for the world like he was 13.
          So the gaffe was... that you insulted his choice of car as effeminate?

          "They called the Enterprise a garbage scow! Sir."
    • by Schraegstrichpunkt (931443) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @11:34PM (#21345989) Homepage

      Eventually this will inconvenience smokers.

      I've had enough smokers stand upwind, throw cigarette butts everywhere, walk around stinking like a smokestack, etc., that I just don't care if smokers are inconvenienced once in a while too.

    • Honne and Tatemae (Score:5, Interesting)

      by CB-in-Tokyo (692617) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @08:17PM (#21344399) Homepage
      Well here is the Honne and the Tatemae (The real thing and the appearance or facade) of Japanese culture at work.

      It is not about actually preventing minors from purchasing cigarettes, it about making the appearance of doing so. By making the appearance of oing so, these vending machines will continue to be allowed, and it may even stop them from being "turned off" at 11:00 PM as they are now. It may also allow Beer vending machines to make a comeback (they are still here, but in far fewer quantities than they used to be.)

      Japan is about image, and showing that you are respecting the group consensus. Japan is not about actually making something foolproof.
      • Re:Honne and Tatemae (Score:4, Interesting)

        by rabiddeity (941737) on Tuesday November 13 2007, @09:06PM (#21344799) Homepage

        Japan is about image, and showing that you are respecting the group consensus. Japan is not about actually making something foolproof.

        See also the new foreigner fingerprinting measures [google.com] going into effect this month. The fingerprinting and storage of those fingerprints has nothing to do with preventing terrorist attacks. It's about presenting an image to reactionary domestic groups and to the United States. The fact that it's going to have a negative impact on their tourist industry hasn't hit them for some reason. Japan has security theater down to an art form.

        • Oh God, don't get me started on that! That is going to be a total pain in the ass for us foreigners who live here and have to travel all the time.

          The Honne: Terror bad! We make you safe. Safe equals happy, we love you!

          Tatemae: Must fingerprint foreign Devils.

          Here is a video the Japanese government have put together about this which is worth the watch simply because it is so stupid it is funny.

          http://nettv.gov-online.go.jp/common/moviechk.php?p=1203&d=0&t=110&b=0&m=1&r=2 [gov-online.go.jp]

          The real purpose o
    • I think they should just dispense condoms for free for whoever wants them in the pubs and clubs. The kind of people who hook up in these places are the ones we don't want reproducing
    • Ever notice how the vending machines in women's bathrooms have one kind of condom, hair brushes, deodorant, lipstick, etc, but the vending machines in men's bathrooms have 8 different kinds of condom? I'm sure there's some market research going on there.