Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

OpenOffice.org Tries to Woo Dell

Posted by Zonk on Tue Mar 13, 2007 08:57 AM
from the maybe-they-need-to-hire-professional-wooers dept.
Rob writes "OpenOffice.org project members have written to Dell (pdf), hoping to persuade the company to adopt OpenOffice in response to customer demand. John McCreesh, OpenOffice.org marketing project lead, writes 'Let's have a conversation about how we could build an OpenOffice.org supplied by Dell product to give your customers what they are asking for.' Demand for open source products on Dell's IdeaStorm web site prompted the letter. A somewhat obvious question is raised: why isn't OpenOffice already available by default on new PC's and Workstations?"
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] Your Rights Online: Dell Censors IdeaStorm Linux Dissent 228 comments
thefickler writes "It seems pointless to seek ideas and feedback if you're going to ignore and delete the opinions you don't like. That's exactly what Dell is doing with its IdeaStorm website, which the company set up to solicit such ideas and feedback. Dell deleted a post linking to an article that criticizes its handling of the 'pre-installed Linux' issue."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • default (Score:5, Funny)

    by otacon (445694) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:01AM (#18331419) Homepage
    It isn't on there by default, because that would mean people might actually use it...and we can't have people just running around using free software, can we?
    • I remember when StarOffice was installed by default on eMachines computers. No one used it. Instead they pirated MS Office and used that instead. This was just a few years ago too. So people won't necessarily use something just because it's installed by default unless they're familiar with it (ie Windows).
      • True, but if they are informed that it does the same thing then they would be more likely to use it. Example: Years back my family started using WordPerfect, because it was already there. Granted I informed them they could essentially do the same thing. But you are very right it has a lot to do with being familiar.
  • by hhlost (757118) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:01AM (#18331423)
    OOo is free, and therefore Dell gets no cut.
    • by synoniem (512936) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:11AM (#18331583)
      To be more accurate: OOo is free, and therefore Dell gets nothing but the support calls and even offshore they want to be paid.
    • by babbling (952366) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:13AM (#18331617)
      That's actually not true. If Dell were to add an option on their website saying "OpenOffice $25", they would be allowed to charge the $25 to bundle OpenOffice with a Dell computer.

      Nothing in the GPL forbids Dell or anyone else for charging money for the software, so Dell wouldn't just "take a cut", they can set the price they like and take 100% of it rather than having to give some of it to Microsoft.
      • That's actually not true. If Dell were to add an option on their website saying "OpenOffice $25", they would be allowed to charge the $25 to bundle OpenOffice with a Dell computer.

        Technically true, but to bother supporting it they'd need a given threshold of their customers to choose it, and I'm guessing they don't think they will. Might also be afraid of the public backlash when some idiot consumer reporter at a TV station breaks the big story that Dell is charging customers for something they can downl

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Why would Dell offer support for OpenOffice? Does Dell offer support for Microsoft Office? As far as I know, Microsoft provides the support for Microsoft Office, and I can't see why Dell would offer support for OpenOffice since they have nothing to do with its development.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            As far as I know, Microsoft provides the support for Microsoft Office, and I can't see why Dell would offer support for OpenOffice since they have nothing to do with its development.

            Dell might want to offer support for OpenOffice for a very good reason - because it makes them money. On the one hand selling Microsoft Office gives Dell a small profit (I presume that nearly all the money goes to Microsoft), and low support costs (they can't be zero, since people will call even if they are immediately redirec

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Nothing in the GPL forbids Dell or anyone else for charging money for the software, so Dell wouldn't just "take a cut", they can set the price they like and take 100% of it rather than having to give some of it to Microsoft.

        Not to mention, they can add value to OpenOffice so that the Dell version is worth paying extra for, particularly by embedding all kinds of fancy widgets to direct Dell customers to Dell's certified business partners.

      • The discount vendor has an insentive in offering you these products, because that's the sort of market they're reaching out to (the technically savy). Dell already has a large enough market and it's a market that would likely be confused if they recieved OOo and not MS Office.

        Just my 2g.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Not really. They could advertise that even their lowest-end, cheapest systems came with a full, Office-compatable application suite. Of course, they could then extoll the advantages of MS Office over OOo on the page where you pick it, which might actually increase sales of Office, but in the end, the user would still be getting a better deal and Dell would still be getting, at the very least, further reinforcement of their reputation (deserved or not) for providing good systems at low prices.
  • Huh... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Frosty Piss (770223) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:01AM (#18331429)
    This is news? Do you think that maybe Dell already knows about OpenOffice? A letter is going to swing the deal? Not likely. Dell is only vaguely interested in Linux, and there are still questions about if that is just the standard ploy to get a better Microsoft deal.

    By the way, I've sent Dell a letter about a little time management application I've been working on for a few years. I'm expecting a reply!!!

    • Whatever happens, this will raise public awareness of OOo by some measure. If only 15% of the public suddenly finds out that there is free software available that does all they need to do, it's a good thing for all. It will also help point out the situation that makes it cheaper for Dell to preload windows than to give away free software. Hopefully consumers will begin to question that and bring to light what MS is still doing to hamstring an entire industry.
  • Here's why (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Asylumn (598576) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:02AM (#18331451)

    why isn't OpenOffice already available by default on new PC's and Workstations?

    Because then customers would have less of an incentive to purchase MS Office. This gives MS a huge incentive to pressure Dell, et al, to not offer alternatives on a windows machine.

    Seems fairly obvious to me.
  • by oskard (715652) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:04AM (#18331469)
    I thought it said:
    "OpenOffice.org Tries to Doo Well"
  • Umm... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by faloi (738831) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:07AM (#18331513)
    why isn't OpenOffice already available by default on new PC's and Workstations?"

    Because your average home user buying an off the shelf PC (regardless of who it's from) has no idea what Open Office is. Even if you provided it as an option, given the choice between a (seemingly) free version of some MS product and Open Office, the average customer would take Open Office. Throw in the bit about most customers expecting to get support from the PC manufacturer for everything that's on there, and you have to talk about training your tech support folks on how to handle Open Office support calls.

    Tech savy users and corporate customers are likely to blow the default image away and replace it with something tweaked to their choosing, so you wouldn't be saving them a tremendous amount of time by having it installed anyway.
  • A somewhat obvious question is raised: why isn't OpenOffice already available by default on new PC's and Workstations?"

    I would say for the same (or at least closely related and similar) reason that PC's come with and the majority of people want/keep using Windows over other OS choices which are arguably better and just as easy or easier to use. It's what people are familiar with. I'm pretty confident your average joe on the street has heard of MS Office. That same guy probably has not heard of OpenOffice

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      On top of that, it's still not 100% compatible with MS Office... I frequently have to slightly adjust things converting between OO's .odf and Office's .doc and have had some features of Excel spreadsheets not work in OO. That alone is going to make it unacceptable for use on projects for school or work which are then going to probably be used in MS Office.

      Stop Using the Proprietary MS Formats - The vast majority of people complaining about OOo complain that it doesn't open MS Documents 100% Accurately.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Stop Using the Proprietary MS Formats - The vast majority of people complaining about OOo complain that it doesn't open MS Documents 100% Accurately. If you would simply start to use the default file format - ODF you won't have this problem.

        Maybe our places of employment use MS formats. Maybe our customers use MS formats. Most people do. If your customers demand you send them MS office files, what are you going to do?

        I often work from home. Without MS software on my home machine, I would not be able t
  • by xenocide2 (231786) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:10AM (#18331559) Homepage
    It's not about customer value -- anyone asking for OpenOffice already knows about it and can easily install it. Dell's strategy is to make the cheapest PC's around to bring in customers, then make it as easy as possible to spend more than that. They are not the Wal-Mart of computing. A 30 day Office trial pays Dell. Even so, they want you to buy Office -- they get more money that way. OO.o has no such financial arrangement, and it would be tricky for Dell to attempt to charge customers for it.
  • Am I the only one who read that and saw "OpenOffice.org Tries to Do Well"?

    May I sew you to your sheets? [wikipedia.org]
  • It's simple. Dell computers already come bundled with a more polished suite for free. It may not be as powerful or feature complete but there it is.

    "Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD [Included in Price]"
  • A somewhat obvious question is raised: why isn't OpenOffice already available by default on new PC's and Workstations?

    Because Microsoft will give less license discount if they did.
  • If Dell charged for OpenOffice, open-source advocates would scream bloody murder (OMG it's supposed to be free, why does choosing OpenOffice add $50 to the price of a PC?) On the other hand, customers expect whatever comes with their computer to be supported, which costs money. There's also the opportunity cost from OpenOffice cannibalizing sales of the much more profitable MS-Office. Also, they would hurt their relationship with Microsoft. So they can either give it away and lose money, or sell it for

  • by falcon5768 (629591) <Falcon5768@NOsPAM.comcast.net> on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:23AM (#18331779) Journal
    Why dont you woo Apple (who have a shakey relationship with Microsoft to start)and in return get help for that long promised native OpenOffice version not using java like NeoOffice has to do...

    oh wait, I forgot the guys in charge dont like Apple either.

  • Obvious? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by east coast (590680) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:26AM (#18331815)
    A somewhat obvious question is raised: why isn't OpenOffice already available by default on new PC's and Workstations?

    Obvious? What's obvious is that Dell can make a profit from MS Office. Frankly, if I were a business I would look to the profit aspect first.

    Also consider tech support. I would think that Dell is going to get more support from MS than the OO people when it comes down to wide spread issues involving their product. Tech support is doubtlessly a large chunk of Dell's overhead. The better support from their software vendors the less that overhead will be. That's a big plus and anyone who's taken business-101 type classes can tell you this.

    Not to mention that free software still has a stigma about it. This isn't likely to go away anytime soon.
  • by Bullfish (858648) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:28AM (#18331845)
    That will go over with Dell like a pregnant woman doing a pole vault... No percentage (that they would get with any other commercial office product) means no profit...
  • by ProppaT (557551) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:29AM (#18331857) Homepage
    It would have made since for PC builders to supply OO on new computers last year. It would have given the user added value for free. It's a great suite of tools. Even though I have Office at work, there's I still use OO for certain applications.

    The problem with OO right now is that, even though OO is a great substitute and can use Office files...it CANT use Office 2007 files. People are going to be saving files with .docx by default in 2007. This creates a huge compatibility void until someone creates an open source DTD for OO to open and render .docx files. No matter how good OO gets, Office is THE standard. If it can't keep up with Office compatibility (and I'm sure it eventually will catch up), it's about as useful as WordPerfect (i.e., it's fine as long as you don't have to use anybody elses files).
  • Maybe because Microsoft Office is a superior product. They don't offer beta versions of MS Office either. If customers want to use OpenOffice they can download. In most cases, it's got critical deficiencies that will confuse most customers. I've tried the ol' OpenOffice switcheroo on non-open-source-enthusiasts before. They were basically confused and frustrated with OpenOffice and why it didn't do the same things.

    Microsoft Office is a lot more intelligent than people give it credit for.
  • by Yaddoshi (997885) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:49AM (#18332137)
    The company I work for always adds OpenOffice to every new PC sold by default, because getting OEM Office drives the price up by almost $200 (and our price is already higher than Office Depot, Office Max, Best Buy and Walmart on comparable PCs of the main brands). I find, however, that people who are comfortable using MS Office don't like OpenOffice, just like people who are comfortable with Corel WordPerfect typically don't like MS Word. You like the program you are most familiar with, even if other programs do the same task better. Nobody likes having to learn to do the same thing in a different manner. I still tie my shoes the same way I taught myself to as a child, even though the normal way to tie one's shoes tends to keep them tied longer than my method.

    With that in mind I find it highly amusing that MS Office 2007 requires a substantial learning curve before most users can become efficient with it. Nice job yet again, Microsoft. Justify the massive pricetag of your newest product that is nothing more than a minor upgrade with a facelift by including an interface overhaul.

    I have customers that are still using MS Office 97, purchased almost ten years ago. Why? Because for them, it still works just fine.
  • by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @11:11AM (#18333853)
    Considering that Dell already loads the latest version of MSOffice on their Dimensions even when you don't order it, and it takes up disc space and nags you to activate it in trial mode, or buy and put in your key, and causes update hassles with your older, legal version of MSOffice that you transfered from your old machine to you new one, hell yes, Dell could afford to include OO on the hard drive.
  • by codemachine (245871) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @11:36AM (#18334265)
    Wouldn't StarOffice from Sun make a lot more sense in this case? Dell can take a cut of the price, and Sun provides support for the product.
    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mungtor (306258) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:08AM (#18331527)
      MS Office isn't installed on a new PC by default either. Even at an OEM type discount, it isn't free.

      OpenOffice is freely available to anyone with an internet connection, and Dell simply doesn't see the business case for distributing and supporting it. Even if they tried to distribute with a support disclaimer there would still be a lot of calls to support about it. Also, Dell would have to distribute CDs with the source code since OpenOffice is GPL'd, etc, etc. None of it is a show-stopper, but why go through all the hassle with no reward? Distributing free software that they don't want to support (or don't think they can sell support on) doesn't make sense for Dell.

      Yeah, it would be nice, but warm feelings and the respect of the /. community doesn't keep the lights on.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        First they could just include the source on the hard drive. Or even better, they could just put up an FTP site where the source is available. It wouldn't even have to be high traffic. I seriously doubt more than 1% of people who buy Dell computers are going to want to download the source for OpenOffice. Nowhere in the GPL does it say you have to include the source with the product, just that you have to make it available. You can even make someone send you an email/snailmail, and charge them for a CD a
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            Any particular reason they can't just send them to the Open Office ftp site? If they just install the vanilla product, there's nothing to do. Source is available, and probably only patches done by Dell that aren't contributed upstream would have to be made available. Soooo.... where's the problem again?
      • Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by aputerguy (692233) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:21AM (#18331741)
        It's obvious -- Dell makes more money *selling* MS Office then *giving* away OpenOffice.

        Even when the customer doesn't buy MS Office up front, you can be sure that MS pays Dell for every "60-day trial" version which comes installed on most PCs nowadays. Even if MS didn't unfairly retaliate, giving away OO would take away from subscribers buying or upgrading to paid MS Office so Dell would inevitably get less of a commission back from MS.

        On the other hand adding a preloaded OO is unlikely to shift share to Dell so not much upside -- particularly, since the relatively small minority of users who consider this as a factor could easily download it themselves.

        Plus supporting OO would add support costs.

        So, while I would love personally to see more OO, I don't see the business case from Dell's perspective

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          MS Office is $200+ depending on what version you purchase and that is more than your average bear wants to pay to type letters. The business case for this is obvious but doesn't factor in to new school thinking.

          The doesn't really help dell gain new customers directly. Adding OO is a cheap way to retain happy and loyal customers and generate positive word of mouth. Dell spends millions on marketing and advertising to gain new customers. Having a full featured office suite included with the system goes a long
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        You hit some often-ignored but obvious points there, but I'm afraid it's a near-miss. The #1 reason why Dell will not supply OpenOffice isn't the cost of shipping media, nor the support nightmare that would inevitably ensue. The #1 reason is because OpenOffice would compete with MS Office.

        If the average joe's computer came with a free word processor and spreadsheet, they no longer need to spend $250 and up on MS Office. Not only would Dell lose money from those lost software sales (which are far more pro
      • Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)

        by CaptainTux (658655) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:37AM (#18331975) Homepage Journal
        <i>Even if they tried to distribute with a support disclaimer there would still be a lot of calls to support about it. Also, Dell would have to distribute CDs with the source code since OpenOffice is GPL'd, etc, etc.</i>

        1: So Dell gets a support call about Open Office. They handle it the same way they handle most technical questions about MS Office: go to the software vendor. Problem solved. No additional work required.

        2: Why would Dell need to distribute CD's with source on them? Nowhere does the GPL even mention that you have to do this. All they have to do is include a piece of paper in each box that says "Want the Open Office source? Email: xxx@dell.com", or set up an FTP site, or make someone mail in a source request form, etc, etc. Problem solved.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            Open office would be like windows, something dell provides and thus their responsibility.

            Are you trying to tell me that Dell takes responsibility for Windows. Last time I checked, even Microsoft wouldn't take responsibility for that! Look at the EULA...

            2. The source is the major cost. Clearly the FTP server is not free, the bandwidth is not free some one needs to reply to the email address.

            Look, Dell is huge. Running an FTP-site is something an individual like you and me can afford. In no way it will

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Also, Dell would have to distribute CDs with the source code since OpenOffice is GPL'd, etc, etc. None of it is a show-stopper, but why go through all the hassle with no reward? Distributing free software that they don't want to support (or don't think they can sell support on) doesn't make sense for Dell.

        I'm actually kind of here to moderate, but, what about the reward of more customers? You know, I bet a lot of people aren't particularly happy that you don't get any real office software when you get you

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AKAImBatman (238306) * <akaimbatman@gm a i l . com> on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:08AM (#18331537) Homepage Journal

      could it be because everyone uses Office and it's proprietary formats?

      Yet they offer the incompatible (and amusingly named) Microsoft Works package. If they can offer Microsoft Works by default, why can't they offer OpenOffice as an option?

      I believe that is the point the author is trying to make.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        My theory is that Dell gets a lower OEM price on windows because they bundle MSW with their PCs (and what is MS works really besides a promotion to buy office?). It could be that any money they save by bundling Open Office may be lost because they stopped bundling MSW with Windows.
    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Hatta (162192) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @09:09AM (#18331555) Journal
      The first thing I did when I got my dell laptop was flash the HD and reinstall an OEM copy of windows.

      Your Dell laptop came with a solid state hard drive?
    • I know i'm going to get modded down for this but... if you have the wisdom to use linux, why are you using a dell laptop? Those things have precision engineering aimed at getting them to die 1 month after the warranty expires :-/
      • Mine has been running fine [in Linux] for a year now. It seems like a solid design. Can't really complain about it.

        In fact it works better in Linux than Windows as I can't find the damn Intel HDA drivers for this thing. Sound and wifi work out of the box with the Linux kernel.

        My first laptop was a Compaq [forget the model] Athlon 1.8Ghz. It too was solid. I dropped it [in a metal case] twice, left it in the cold [in transit] and even poured about 100mL of water on it [by accident] and it kept going [af
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Hmm top secret ... could it be because everyone uses Office and it's proprietary formats? That's why.

      Or maybe it's because Dell can't make any money off OO?