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Far-Fetched Time Travel Concept Receives Private Funds

Posted by Zonk on Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:59 AM
from the if-you're-going-to-make-a-time-machine-do-it-with-some-style dept.
WED Fan writes "A University of Washington researcher who couldn't find funds the old fashioned way has raised funds from private parties to continue with his studies of 'time travel'. He is studying the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Paradox. Basically, using spooky action, he wants to be able to use entangled pairs to send messages, not only through space, but also in time. 'As the evidence for this has accumulated, several fairly contorted and unsatisfying efforts have been aimed at solving the puzzle. Cramer has proposed an explanation that doesn't violate the speed of light but does kind of mess with the traditional concept of time.' Despite the implausibility of the science here laypeople have been inspired by the researcher's idea, enough to donate almost $35,000 to his project."
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  • obligatory (Score:5, Funny)

    by uolamer (957159) * on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:00AM (#19478563) Homepage
    Can I get the investors info?

    I have a bridge that...
    In soviet Russia Time Travel You.
    Is this the Lt. Commander Data theory or the Spock theory of time travel?
    if you do manage to do this, send me a copy of all the sports results for the next 100 years and history of the stocks, etc.

    Seriously.. If this was possible, i can only start to imagine how the wrong people or even the right people could really mess up things with their first little test.
    • Re:obligatory (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Intron (870560) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:10AM (#19478763)
      If this worked then there would already be investors lined up who have sent messages to themselves from the future.
      • Re:obligatory (Score:5, Interesting)

        by oliverthered (187439) <`moc.liamtoh' `ta' `derehtrevilo'> on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:33AM (#19479055)
        it could be that you can't send messages back any earlier than the time the message was created, effectively only slowing time down so it take less time for the message to arrive. Less time could be no time at all so the message arrives when it's sent.

        This won't allow you to send messages 'back' in time though.
      • by dfiguero (324827) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:37AM (#19479121)
        Note to self from the future: don't invest in this idea.
      • by KingSkippus (799657) * on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:44AM (#19479203) Homepage Journal

        How do you know they didn't?

        Sure, it may seem like it's a foolish investment, but if it pays off... Oh, man... Invest a penny at the beginning at time, and before you know it, you'll be dining at Milliways.

      • Two counterpoints (Score:5, Insightful)

        by BeanThere (28381) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:51AM (#19479337)
        (1) Perhaps there are, and these investors are them.
        (2) Not necessarily, if one needs to develop a special kind of "receiver" in order to receive the messages, then the first point in time at which such messages could be received would be when such receiver technology was invented (such point in time would be in the future still). If that point was in, say, 2015, then you could send messages from 2019 to 2015 but not from 2019 to 2007. You could *send* such messages, but nobody would have the technology to even realise that such messages were being sent. Like transmitting radio signals to cavemen.
        • Dear God! (Score:5, Funny)

          by FST777 (913657) <frans-jan@@@van-steenbeek...net> on Tuesday June 12 2007, @12:40PM (#19480103) Homepage
          Imagine you make said receiver, the first one ever invented. It would immediately spit out all kinds of spam messages from all kinds of futures.

          Now THAT would be annoying! Imagine turning the thing on for the first time ever, and immediately receiving Zetabytes of "Frist psot!" messages.
        • by Alsee (515537) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @01:08PM (#19480459) Homepage
          Like transmitting radio signals to cavemen.

          Cue pissed off insulted caveman Geico commercial.

          -
        • by s4m7 (519684) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @01:41PM (#19480879) Homepage
          Dear Sir,
          I am writing to inform you that I have recieved a message from your future self. Included is the text from that message.

          Hello, me! I just wanted to let you know that I (you) got rich by investing in this man's method of time travelling messages! I (you) invested $2000 just one week after I (you) recieved this very message, and within six months I (you) was a millionare!
          signed, Me (You).

          Here's my address..
      • by PPH (736903) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @12:23PM (#19479847)
        According to a November 12, 2010 article in Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal, this was exposed as an investment scam and the responsible parties have all been charged by the USDOJ Attorney General Sam Waterston.
      • Re:ahahaha... (Score:5, Informative)

        by Chowderbags (847952) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @05:13PM (#19483657)
        I'm pretty sure that defining velocity in terms of Newtonian mechanics and then using modern understanding of time counts as being wrong. Attempting to define motion through time as a simple substitution is bound to create problems, mostly because it's making shit up.

        Heck, the site even says that time dilation doesn't occur and instead attributes it to clocks slowing down ("for whatever reason"). Now, experiments in time dilation have shown that cesium atomic clocks, devices accurate to within a billionth of a second every day, show results extremely close to that predicted in general reletivity. Unless this site wants to come up with an explaination of mechanical failure for devices with such accuracy, I'm going to stick with the evidence for time dilation.

        Overall, I have to say that crackpot sites by people who as far I can tell have submitted no papers to peer reviewed journals or otherwise shown expertise in the field are probably not the best place to get information on physics.
  • by LiquidCoooled (634315) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:00AM (#19478565) Homepage Journal
    Its not that far fetched.

    I invested some money in this guy next week and have been earning a decent return on my investment for the last 3 years.
    I did however feel a little shiver as I considered shorting his stock and for some damned reason pictures of my family have started to fade.
  • So? (Score:5, Funny)

    by grub (11606) <slashdot@grub.net> on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:00AM (#19478573) Homepage Journal

    he wants to be able to use entangled pairs to send messages, not only through space, but also in time.

    Big deal, Slashdot has been bringing us news from the past for years!

    • Re:So? (Score:5, Funny)

      by XxtraLarGe (551297) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @01:18PM (#19480593) Journal

      he wants to be able to use entangled pairs to send messages, not only through space, but also in time.
      Big deal, Slashdot has been bringing us news from the past for years!
      Did you know subscribers [slashdot.org] can see articles in the future?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:01AM (#19478579)
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but, actually, from a non-linear viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff.
  • by Timesprout (579035) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:01AM (#19478585)
    Wooo it works!!!
    • by teslar (706653) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:42AM (#19479181)
      Timestamp from actual first post:

      Tuesday June 12, @06:00PM
      Your timestamp:

      Tuesday June 12, @06:01PM
      For all those who think about making fun of this gentleman for not actually having made first post, remember that the post has travelled for 25 years and has arrived within 1 minute of its designated arrival time. That's an error of approximately 7.6x10^(-8) times total time travelled... and that is better than what i can achieve at darts :)
      • has travelled for 25 years
        Damn, I just realised it's not 97 anymore, goes to show the accuracy of my own time machine...make that 35 years and recalculate the error as required :) Will still be in the order of 10^(-8) though I expect
  • by DanQuixote (945427) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:01AM (#19478587)

    But I also admire folks who can inspire others toward some dream...

    • by Chris Burke (6130) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:10AM (#19478757) Homepage
      The difference between a crackpot and a scientist with a dream is that the scientist still relies on the rigorous application of the scientific method even if their theory is way outside of mainstream. It sounds like this guy is taking the latter tack. He has experiments in mind, and is completely open to the idea that they may fail.

      You don't have to pick between dreaming and scientific rigor. The scientific method is how you turn your dreams into a reality -- if reality is ammenable to your dreams.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward
          If $35k buys him one experiment that disproves his theory, then he's saved 9x that much. If his experiment shows that his theory produces reproducible results, then he's that much closer to convincing people he's not a nut.

          The question is whether $35k is enough to fund one experiment.
    • by WalksOnDirt (704461) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:20AM (#19478917)
      John Cramer has been writing science articles for the science fiction magazine Analog for some time. They are available online here: http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV [washington.edu]
  • ROI (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Doc Ruby (173196) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:01AM (#19478591) Homepage Journal
    If time travel can be produced, it's worth (asymptotically) nearly any amount of investmemnt to get it.
    • Re:ROI (Score:5, Interesting)

      by timster (32400) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:27AM (#19479003)
      Nah, it's not worth anything. If time travel is ever developed, the universe enters an unstable state. Stability isn't returned until a scenario occurs where time travel is never discovered in the first place.

      This process takes no time (obviously), so any discovery of time travel is immediately undone. Actually, this happens all the, er, time.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      If time travel can be produced, it's worth (asymptotically) nearly any amount of investmemnt to get it.

      It is extraordinarily sad to me that the "geeks" of this forum are considering this a financial investment rather than a scientific investment. I am a scientist, and I know that the logic of grants and funding agencies is a game that can be far removed from science, supportive of the status quo and the tenured. For $2-10K, if I had it lying around, I'd happily play "funding reviewer" in the hope of fun

    • Re:ROI (Score:4, Insightful)

      by cowscows (103644) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:37AM (#19479117) Journal
      Not to mention that there are plenty of people out there for which $35,000 is really a drop in the bucket. Giving that money to this guy is most likely money wasted, but if that money was most likely just going to sit in the bank with a few other tens of millions of dollars until you die, then you haven't really lost anything worth worrying about anyways.

      If you've got more money than you know what to do with, why not take a couple long-shot bets?
        • Re:ROI (Score:4, Funny)

          by Chosen Reject (842143) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @12:37PM (#19480067)
          So the technology was invented in the future, but we have it now. But since we have it, the people in the future won't bother to discover it because they already have it, which means it wasn't ever discovered, thus in the past we didn't have it to grant to the people in the future, which means that now they had the motivation to discover it, but since they sent it back to us, they had it in the past, and just took that knowledge for granted and didn't have to discover it, so the future never discovered it, so they didn't send it back to us, so we didn't have it, and thus they didn't have it to take for granted, so they discovered it, and then sent it back to us, and so on and so forth.
      • Re:ROI (Score:4, Interesting)

        by ZorinLynx (31751) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @12:57PM (#19480329) Homepage
        This brings up an interesting concept. Say you invent a machine to send a message back in time 20 seconds.

        So in testing the machine, you receive the message, and then in 20 seconds send it. It works! Great, but...

        On the second test, you start to wonder, "What would happen if I was going to send the message, but then change my mind when I receive it?"

        So you receive the message, then decide not to send it. Interesting paradox, huh?

        Either that, or the machine will always predict with 100% accuracy whether or not you'll push the button to send the message. So if you intend to not push it once you get the message, you'll never get the message. So there will be no way to "trick" the message into coming in.

        It's a bizarre concept. Thinking about it brings up interesting thoughts like whether or not we really have free will. :)
  • Come on... (Score:4, Funny)

    by vurg (639307) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:02AM (#19478597)
    If I ever start thinking about building a time machine, I would make a promise to myself beforehand that my first plan of action is to send a message back in time to right now telling me that it works. I'm still waiting for that message.
  • for chists sake (Score:5, Informative)

    by brunascle (994197) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:02AM (#19478619)
    how many times must it be explained, you cannot send information FTL using quantum entanglement. more specifically, you cannot send information using quantum entanglement. you can only use it together with a classical communication channel.

    you'd think these people wouldve already known that.
  • by jellomizer (103300) * on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:03AM (#19478621)
    I can send messages to the future but I am having sending messages back.

    #/bin/sh
     
    #send a message 5 minutes in the future
    sleep 300
    echo "Hello from the Past"
    But this doesn't seem to work yet

    #/bin/sh
    sleep -300
    echo "Hello from the Future"
  • List of investors? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MECC (8478) * on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:07AM (#19478709)
    I wonder if there's a way to get the names of the people who gave him money, and their contact info.

  • If he could send messages back in time, he could just send his impoverished past self some winning Lotto numbers, thereby funding the project far more than $35K.

    Of course, the past impoverished researcher would have to build a receiver first, requiring funds up front. Maybe that's what he's doing now. Keep an eye on how this guy's "luck" goes in the, um, future.

  • by Rob T Firefly (844560) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:10AM (#19478749) Homepage Journal
    I wonder if investors' safety is guaranteed. [ytmnd.com]
  • Good idea (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Usquebaugh (230216) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:13AM (#19478803)
    I find the idea of public funded science research heart warming. No need for the government or the science establishment to get involved. If an individual wants to contribute good for him and the researcher.

    I care not if I think the researcher is not all there, it's not my money.

    For instance Robert Bussard is trying to raise funds to continue his fusion research. Now I don't think he spent money wisely in the past, I don't think he was too smart in his dealings with the DoD, I do not think he has solved all the problem. But I do think he is the closest to cheap fusion. Should I fund him?

    My only stipulation is that everything must be published, not only the research but also the money trail. I want to see where the dork spent $10k on software.
  • Remember, folks... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by InfinityWpi (175421) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:16AM (#19478847)
    Not every crackpot is really a brilliant genius... but almost all brilliant geniuses were, at one point, considered to be crackpots.
  • by m1a1 (622864) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:51AM (#19479331)
    Most of the comments here make no sense.

    These people are not investors. They did not get "scammed". Those of us who read the article know that this scientist did not even approach them for cash. Rather, news of his plight got out and people wanted to donate. He is a respected particle physicist with a theory that is a little odd. He wants to perform a relatively cheap experiment which should show whether his theory has enough going for it to be worth further examination. If these experiments fail, oh well, back to the drawing board.

    This is the way science is SUPPOSED to work. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical, but acting like this guy is a scam artist is ridiculous. This guy runs a super collider, yet everyone here is so damn sure they understand quantum phenomenon better than he does.
  • by Peter Trepan (572016) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:54AM (#19479389)

    I have yet to hear of any results, although I did have a strange experience the other day. I was about to try my first sip of Milo's Famous Sweet Tea when a 500 lb man appeared from thin air and knocked the glass from my hand before disappearing again.

  • Not a crackpot. (Score:4, Informative)

    by sconeu (64226) on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:54AM (#19479395) Homepage Journal
    This is based on the Transactional Interpretation [wikipedia.org] of Quantum Mechanics.

    It's based on hard science, and makes testable predictions. TFS grabbed the most sensational lines from TFA.

    • Re:Causality anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by DamnStupidElf (649844) <Fingolfin@linuxmail.org> on Tuesday June 12 2007, @11:59AM (#19479465)
      If relativity is correct (and even possibly if it isn't), backwards-in-time communication really REALLY F@#)(*s up causality. Heck, Faster Than Light (FTL) communication at all F@#)(*s up causality.

      Intra-universe causality, at least. If parallel universes exist (and mathematically it makes a lot more sense if they do), then causality is a moot point. When something travels back in time, it only appears in a parallel universe with the same history up to the point in the past at which it arrives, after which it is fundamentally different. This doesn't necessarily even require a violation of the laws of physics, because there is always some finite (but infinitesimal) probability of virtual particles assembling themselves into an object from a possible future or the past. If there are parallel universes, then there are almost certainly an infinite number of them, one for every possibility, and therefore some universes exist in which time travel happens as essentially an accident of random physics, but to the observers within the universe it looks just like time travel but without causality violations.