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Google Street View Could Be Unlawful In Europe

Posted by kdawson on Thu Jun 14, 2007 08:55 AM
from the please-sign-here dept.
arallsopp writes "European data protection laws restrict the commercial use of photographs where individuals are identifiable. The law sets extra requirements for so-called sensitive personal data: it demands explicit consent, not just notification: 'If Google's multi-lens camera cars come to Europe and inadvertently find themselves taking pictures of persons leaving a church or sexual health clinic, they may just need to pull over and start picking up signatures.'"
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  • ...but probably not in England.
    • Re:Well, maybe... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2007, @09:05AM (#19504755)
      That's not entirely accurate; The guide [sirimo.co.uk] linked from http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php [sirimo.co.uk] gives a very good overview of what you can and can not do with a photograph.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      As far as I know, its legal in Denmark too. If you're on a public area, and you get photographed, say tourists posing in a photo and you happen to be in the background, and this photo is published on the Web, you cant demand it to be taken down.

      Next thing you know, they'd have to blur all the audiences at sports events, because *gasp* they might be televised ?

      However, that is not to say i approve of what Google is doing, i think the basic idea is good, I think some effort to at least blur out car regi
      • If it said GOOGLE STREET VIEW PICTURE CAM-VAN and wasn't secretive about doing it, it would upset me that much.

        I agree that blurring license plates faces may be a good idea, but I can understand why Google doesn't wander around in a van that advertises "Hey! Do something crazy now and you'll be immortalized on Google!" Secrecy is not always a bad thing. Google just wants pictures of the streets as they are. If they advertise what they are doing the would get all kinds of crazies doing crazy/stupid/dangerous stuff.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      In France, it is illegal. Every person has a right to his or her own image. It is legal to take pictures of people in public places. It is illegal to publish them without written consent. I am not sure how well this law is applied, especially in the press, but this is the theory. And I also think that it is illegal to take pictures of people in a private place, without consent. That would include, say, people in their home that can be seen from the street through a window.
      • Re:Well, maybe... (Score:5, Informative)

        by Keith_Beef (166050) on Thursday June 14 2007, @10:45AM (#19506317)

        As I understand it, French law specifically prohibits the publication of any image derived from a photograph taken in a public place without the consent of the person in that image, if the person is the main or only subject in that image.

        If I take a photograph of the Eiffel Tower, and you happen to be in the shot along with a few other people, I don't have to get your consent before publishing the photo, even if I gain commercially from doing so, and even if you could be recognized and identified by your face in the photograph.

        There are no doubt some guidelines somewhere about the percentage surface area taken up by the person's face, compared to the main subject (the Eiffel tower, in my example), and you could dig up some jurisprudence on the subject.

        Cas d'une photo prise devant la maison d'arrêt de la santé Dans l'hebdomadaire France Dimanche en illustration d'articles consacrés à Bernard TAPIE, alors incarcéré, figurait une photographie où l'on pouvait voir, à la droite de la famille TAPIE, un policier entrant dans une voiture en stationnement devant la maison d'arrêt de la santé. La Cour d'Appel de Paris (3) a considéré que la prise de vue était réalisée sur la voie publique, que rien ne venait isoler le policier du groupe de personnes représentées par la photographie, centrée sur la famille de Bernard TAPIE à l'entrée de la maison d'arrêt, et non sur la personne du policier dont l'identité n'était pas révélée. Elle a jugé que cette photographie illustrait un événement d'actualité auquel ce dernier s'est trouvé mêlé objectivement et de façon impersonnelle par l'effet d'une coïncidence due à des circonstances tenant exclusivement à sa vie professionnelle.

        source: http://www.scaraye.com/article.php?rub=27&sr=36&a= 270 [scaraye.com]

        Since this is so important, I'll summarize from the text.

        Bernard Tapie had been held in a prison called "la Santé" and was being released. A weekly magazine "France Dimanche" published on its cover a photo of Tapie's release. The photo showed a police officer getting into a car to the right of Tapie and his family.

        The court decided that

        • since the officer was not picked out by the framing of the photo (centered on tapie and family)
        • since the photo was taken on a public road

        there was no grounds to penalise the magazine or to compensate the office.

        Contrast this with article 226-1 of the French Penal Code, which concerns publication of photographs taken in a private place.

        l'article 226-1 CP dispose qu'"est puni d'un an d'emprisonnement et de 45.000 euros d'amende le fait, au moyen d'un procédé quelconque," de porter atteinte volontairement à l'intimité de la vie privée d'autrui, en captant (parole) ou fixant (image), enregistrant ou transmettant, sans le consentement de la personne concernée, des paroles prononcées à titre privé ou confidentiel, ou l'image d'une personne se trouvant dans un lieu privé. Le consentement est présumé lorsque ces actes ont été accomplis au vu et au su de cette personne sans qu'elle s'y soit opposée.

        source: http://www.cru.fr/droit-deonto/droit/protection-dr oits/personnalite.htm [www.cru.fr]

        Yet another commentary on this article gives the contrasting situation of a person in a public place:

        En d'autres termes, une image captée dans le cadre de la vie publique ne peut porter préjudice à quiconque.

        and goes on to:

        Le Code civil pose ensuite deux conditions : - il faut qu

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        If they do, then you are allowed to request copies of the photographs and any other information they have on you. They are allowed to charge a maximum of £10 per request for access to this information.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          "probably even they can't for commercial purposes"

          Ok...when I read the headline, first thing I thought of..."They have 1000's of CCTV cameras over there, watching their every move, and they're getting riled up about Google taking their picture too?"

          Ok, so now that I read your reply..I get it. Suvelliance for non-commercial purposes GOOD, if you try to make a buck off it BAD.

          Makes perfect sense to me.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            Ok, so now that I read your reply..I get it. Survelliance for non-commercial purposes GOOD, if you try to make a buck off it BAD.

            While that, and this article, all sound very plausible there's one huge gaping hole in the logic of this...

            The UK has one of the most virulent and productive paparazzi in existence. They make a fortune off of candid pictures taken without the consent of the subjects. They do this all over Europe. They have been doing this for a number of years.

            Quite simply, this article is

                  • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

                    That was my first thought. The point of Street View isn't to take pictures of people anyway, they just happen to be in the way.

                    That's an interesting idea. If they're just in the way, then all Google has to do is run enough passes up and down the street. A computer could then compare the images and only use parts of the image that remain static from pass to pass. If they can't seem to find a static image for a given location (like a water fountain, animatronic sign, etc.) then you flag that for identifica
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            OK, I'm going to bite on this because it is really getting out of hand...

            The UK doesn't have that many more CCTV cameras than most other "developed" countries. I've just had two weeks in the Baltimore / D.C. area and I lost count of the number of CCTV cameras I saw, both in public places and on private property.

            The huge figures quoted in the UK, as far as I know (and I don't have any sources to quote here, so please prove me wrong) include every kind of CCTV cameras, from those installed within banks and co
  • by Cutriss (262920) on Thursday June 14 2007, @08:58AM (#19504657) Homepage
    ...is that they will start taking multiple sets of photographs in the same locations on each street, and then splicing or otherwise removing the people present in the photos.

    This was never meant to be an exercise in snooping on people, though it has turned into an artistic representation of real life.
  • by timholman (71886) on Thursday June 14 2007, @08:59AM (#19504665)
    Google doesn't need consent from anyone. All they need to do is blur out the images of any people in a street scene, just like the TV networks do.

    Why is everyone making such a fuss over this when the solution is well known and trivial to implement?
    • by richdun (672214) on Thursday June 14 2007, @09:01AM (#19504703)

      You have a 5-digit user number, so I won't go with the standard "You must be new here," but come on - making a fuss over problems with trivial and well-known solutions is what we do here.

    • Or just stop long enough so the people can move a few feet or so and then create a people-less picture from the shots thus obtained.
      • This would become counter-productive.
        If you're hanging around taking such shots, you might be taken for someone with nefarious purpose.
        Worse still, you could be tagged as Google, find yourself awash in resumes, then busted for littering, as the wind disperses those little sheets of fabrication like so much political propaganda.
    • Blurring? I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. Smile!
  • Facial Recognition (Score:3, Interesting)

    by castlec (546341) <castlecNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Thursday June 14 2007, @08:59AM (#19504675)
    with blur. It's that simple. They don't need an advanced algorithm to identify individual people, only one to identify that there is a person there and then apply a blur on that region of the photo. I think Google can handle it.
    • with blur. It's that simple. They don't need an advanced algorithm to identify individual people, only one to identify that there is a person there and then apply a blur on that region of the photo. I think Google can handle it.
      Yup.

      Seriously, I could whip up an algo to do just that myself, I'm sure the giant heads working at google can do it too.
      And if blurring is too high-tech, just do the classic black rectangle. No fuss at all.
    • I'm not a fan of the blur. Millions of headless people? That's inhumanely frightening. My vote goes for placing big yellow smileys over their heads.
  • by El Cabri (13930) on Thursday June 14 2007, @09:01AM (#19504695) Journal
    taking pictures of persons leaving a church or sexual health clinic


    In godless, sexually liberated Europe, I don't see that happening anyway.

    • Why would you consider them godless? They love money almost as much as we do.
    • by Moraelin (679338) on Thursday June 14 2007, @09:30AM (#19505123) Journal
      Yes, well, see, that's just what makes it a privacy issue. Being such a godless bunch, we wouldn't want to be caught on photo coming out of a church, would we? What would our godless friends think about that? Beats having to find some quick explanation like, "I... uhh... thought it was a kinky S&M club. You know, what with the naked guy on the cross, and all." ;)
  • by Suspended_Reality (927563) on Thursday June 14 2007, @09:02AM (#19504721)
    Have you seen the google van [wired.com]? A quick stop in Italy to make some modifications to the van, and you'll get that explicit consent, right boss?

    Hey Tony, get out of the van, this guy doesn't wanna sign the consent...
  • On an evening in August 1995, a 42-year-old called Geoffrey Peck attempted suicide by cutting his wrists with a kitchen knife while on Brentwood High Street in Essex, England. CCTV cameras caught the action, the council's CCTV operator alerted the police and the police intervened. Peck lived. But still images from the CCTV footage were sold by the local council to the media. Peck took his complaint as far as the European Court of Human Rights and won.

    What was he doing in front of cameras while trying to co

    • From some experience in my town in various locales there, what can you do not inside your own home without a CCTV camera seeing you from some obscure angle.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Have you spent much time in England? Over there, with the exception of in your own home, you are pretty much in front of a camera at all times.

        Bollocks. Wandering through the countryside in Devon and Somerset, I think I was caught on camera, oh, maybe not at all. I wonder if that's because there are no cameras there. Hell, in that part of the world, they've barely got electricity. But the cider is nice...

        You mean in the cities. Since I live in Bristol, I did a little camera hunt around my neighbourhood a we

  • Silliness. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jpellino (202698) on Thursday June 14 2007, @09:06AM (#19504771)
    They're walking down the street. Everyone can see them.
    They're already on 15 cameras a day according to recent numbers, and everyone has a cell camera.
    This is like the HIPAA laws in this country.
    Besides my reflux, I now have writer's cramp from filling out the HIPAA forms acknowleding that they told me they won't tell anyone what I have.
    As my doctor said, what is he going to do, run out into the parking lot and start yelling "You won't believe what JP has!"
    Plus, when you sit in the waiting room and anyone over 55 starts a conversation, it's all about what's wrong with them, and turns into a mass symptom and storytelling party.

    • There is a difference being seen, and having your image used for commercial purposes. Google are providing a commercial service, and gain income from advertisers as a result of publishing photographs containing images of people. It can be argued that they would make the same money if the images did not contain people, but that doesn't alter the fact that they are publishing pictures of identifiable people for commercial gain.
  • I think it was Kaiser Wilhelm II who first forced this kind of law at the beginning of the previous century. Apparently he had had a bad hair day photo taken and created a law...

    It would have been nice to be an Emperor, occassionally! I have had many a bad hair day.

  • You appearance on the street does not constitute "sensitive personal data" no matter where you are and what you are being photographed in front of. This is an overly alarmist article more suited for the frothing-at-the-mouth types over at Digg than here at Slashdot.
    • by robably (1044462) on Thursday June 14 2007, @09:25AM (#19505077) Journal

      You appearance on the street does not constitute "sensitive personal data"
      True, but the law over here also recognizes that your appearance on the street does not constitute a consent to be photographed.

      If some people don't care whether they are photographed in public, but others do, then regardless of the law you should act considerately and ask permission before photographing someone, rather than assuming they feel the same way you do. People have no choice but to appear in public occasionally; it shouldn't be used as justification for photographing them, and the law in Europe recognizes this.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        >People have no choice but to appear in public occasionally; it shouldn't be used as justification for photographing them, and the law in Europe recognizes this.

        Yea man, what do you want us to do? wear a "robots.txt" around our necks?
  • by BobMcD (601576) on Thursday June 14 2007, @09:14AM (#19504931)

    I've seen the plentiful comments about simply blurring the faces, but a quick look at the San Fran streets shows me they're not bluring the license plates. I've got a crystal clear pic of one up right now. I can even clearly see that the vehicle was purchased at 'SERRAMONTE FORD', whatever that is. It also has some kind of a work-rig on top. I wonder if those are commercial plates? A quick DMV lookup should tell me, one sec... I can't quite make out the letters on the tags, but I bet Cali uses a color-code system. They're - well you get the point.

    If they won't/can't do that, why then would they do faces?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Brilliant. You know another place I have found unblurred licence plates. Out on the street, their are hundreds of them. Surely this is some privacy violation. Something needs to be done, think of the children.

      I think there maybe a good argument against google AND Microsoft/Amazon doing this, but lets be sensible here. I am not sure that readable number plates are the biggest problem here.
  • by GauteL (29207) on Thursday June 14 2007, @09:17AM (#19504965) Homepage
    Some countries in Europe may have laws against photographing people, I don't know. But here we are talking about laws against publishing said photographs without express permission from the people being photographed. Many countries have such laws and the exception is typically if the person being photographed can be said to be a "public figure", in which case you are free to publicise pictures of them without permission, except if the pictures where obtained in a way that would be consider a violation of privacy (climbing over their garden fence to spy at them in their swimming pool).

    The main reason for this kind of laws is that two parties freedom are directly at odds. The freedom of the photographer and publisher has to be weighed up against the freedom and privacy of the individual.

    The laws surrounding surveillance cameras are in other words completely irrelevant in this discussion as we are talking about the right to publish rather than the right to monitor. The police state discussion is a different discussion altogether.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      exactly. since in France it is forbidden to publish without consent one's photograph, I was somehow surprised at this google project; and we all have seen many examples of people that, if they had a choice, would probably have declined being exposed over the whole internet in such positions. Publishing pictures is fine, but you have to respect the individual and the fact that many people do not want their faces anywhere on the internet. What one chooses to do with one's image is actually a prized individual
  • sexual health clinic ?!?

    Can somebody explain me what the author is referring to? Looks more like an hidden add for /.-ers.
  • It would seem that a warning vehicle could drive in front of the google car to warn people. However, I feel that the end result would be idiots rushing out into the street with dumb signs and the street view tool would become rather useless. Perhaps Google should just invest into technology to automatically erase people from photos.
  • by i-neo (176120) on Thursday June 14 2007, @09:30AM (#19505137) Homepage
    This is not really a problem.

    Of course Google will have to implement some algorithm to avoid publishing recognizable pictures of someone. But a lot of technologies are already available to solve this problem. One of the most impressive I have seen is inpainting: once you have selected the area you wish to remove from the picture it rebuilds the missing part... There is a Gimp plugin that perform this kind of operation: http://www.manucornet.net/Informatique/Gimp_Textur ize.php [manucornet.net]

    Ah yes I almost forgot... it turns out that the author is now working at Google.
    I am pretty sure that with all those people working there they can do something about it ;)
  • Then anything that moves will be blurred, including people. Sorted!
    • Exactly. All clods here suggesting facial blur only make things too complicated. Long enough exposure times and even the blurs will become invisible- it's a simple matter of signal to noise ratio.
  • 'If Google's multi-lens camera cars come to Europe and inadvertently find themselves taking pictures of persons leaving a church or sexual health clinic, they may just need to pull over and start picking up signatures.'"

    So if I'm in Paris and take a picture of Notre Dame that just happens to catch some well-known atheist leaving, and (unknowingly) post it to a blog, I'm is serious legal trouble? How absurd. I always thought Europe had way too many laws. This only confirms that impression.

    What Google i

  • by geeche suede (264458) on Thursday June 14 2007, @09:37AM (#19505243)

    I'm surprised google hasn't endeavored to capture multiple shots of locations at different times and aggregated that data to create unobstructed views along each street.

    Why allow people, cars and trucks to obstruct signage? If they don't help identify the location or give you a feel for the "street view", remove them.

    There's that tourist remover [snapmania.com] project that seems relevant.

    Privacy shouldn't even be an issue because the people simply don't need to be in the photos.

  • by Richard Fairhurst (900015) on Thursday June 14 2007, @09:53AM (#19505477) Homepage
    IANAL, obviously, but I'm the editor of a UK magazine which regularly prints pictures which happen to include people - without getting their consent. And I don't agree with TFA at all. It says that "if we're taking snaps for commercial use, where individuals are identifiable, there is no such exemption". Fine. But to back this up, it links to a report of an earlier ECJ case [out-law.com]. This report says:

    Mrs Bodil Lindqvist was an active member of her church in the parish of Alseda in Sweden. As part of a computer course Lindqvist had to set up an internet home page, and chose to create a site giving information to church parishioners. Unfortunately the pages included information about Mrs Lindqvist and 18 of her fellow church volunteers. This information included some full names, telephone numbers and references to hobbies and jobs held by her colleagues
    And according to the ECJ, this was a problem because:

    "that the act of referring, on an internet page, to various persons and identifying them by name or by other means, for instance by giving their telephone number or information regarding their working conditions and hobbies, constitutes the processing of personal data wholly or partly by automatic means within the meaning of [the Directive]."
    You see the difference with what Google's doing? Google Street View means people are identifiable. But it doesn't identify them. That's what Mrs Lindqvist did - she posted their names and phone numbers - and that's what she was fined for. So if you annotate GSV to say "this is Fred with Mary, who isn't his wife", you've infringed. But I don't see how Google, by merely posting the photos, is doing anything wrong. (French privacy law may well apply a stricter standard, of course.)
  • by simm1701 (835424) on Thursday June 14 2007, @12:14PM (#19507743)
    Doesn't google know how to do a time lapse digital photography?

    If you set your shutter speed to 30 minutes its pretty rare to get any people in the image - or cars for that matter unless they are parked.

    How else do you think you get pictures of busy public buildings but without any people on them (well before the days of photoshop)

    Ok so time lapse is very old school and would probably take too long to get all the photos they want - but wouldn't some hybrid of time lapse and digital processing work quite well? (eg 10 stills over 60 seconds and an algorithm to create a composite using only the static parts?)