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Details and Rumors of iPhone Restrictions Emerging
Posted by
kdawson
on Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:18 AM
from the still-don't-know-how-much-a-month dept.
from the still-don't-know-how-much-a-month dept.
We're getting indications of the ways the iPhone will be sold (or not sold) and restricted by Apple and AT&T. Reader thefickler writes, "An anonymous AT&T store manager has told blorge.com that users will get their WiFi when they sign a contract locking them into a data plan and EDGE. Kiss your dreams of WiFi reliance goodbye." And our own CmdrTaco found an article up on AppleInsider reporting that the iPhone will not be sold through established business channels — forcing Cingular business customers to stand in line for their goodies, as individuals, at Apple stores. An AT&T Business Division rep told one customer, "There is no ETA on the [ending of the] sale ban to business."
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uh oh... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I hear every iPhone comes with a tool (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Not so (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not so (Score:5, Insightful)
But there's no way in hell I'm buying into the at&t EDGE network plan to use this phone. If I could have just bought the phone and relied of free Wi-Fi hotspots for data use (and preferably drop my T-Mobile SIM into it and keep my current plan), I would have gladly dropped far more than the $600 price tag to snap one of these things up. OS X "Lite" on a hand-held? Are you kidding me? Even without the phone, I would want it.
The other shortcoming is that the "best iPod we ever made" as Steve calls it, lacks enough storage for my music collection, let alone video files.
But as it is... Screw it. I'll keep toting around my 5th Gen 80GB iPod and my RAZR. Get back to me with iPhone 2, and if there are fewer ties to a ridiculously expensive (for what it is) phone/data service, I'll consider it.
Parent
Re:Not so (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't see it as a phone with an iPod & Browser in it.
I see it as an at-long-last replacement for the old Newton, with a phone in it.
If, by "the most extreme junkies", you mean 1 percent of the current cell phone market, then Apple hits their sales target for this phone right there. Get a few casual and/or business users on board, and it becomes one of Apple's most successful product launches, ever.
But they'll be doing it without me, so long as it's locked into high-priced, low-performance, long-term contracts.
Parent
Re:Not so (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPhone is not meant to compete against the Blackberry or Windows Mobile phones of the world. The iPhone is not for business customers. Instead, it's for home users that want similar basic functionality to a Blackberry or Windows Mobile device (something that handles e-mail, browses the web on an easy-to-read display, that sort of thing) but don't want it to feel like a "work" phone. Consequently, Exchange support is unnecessary, as is anything beyond basic calendaring and the like. If it can play a few mini-games, so much the better. It doesn't have support for a bunch of third-party plugins? Oh well - the home user won't need them anyways.
Now, what my coworker and I couldn't agree on was how many home users actually want that, and the reason for that is because this market segment has never been touched. Consequently, I'm curious to see how big the "I want a PDA but not for work" market really is.
Parent
waiting is (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
AT&T NBS sales (Score:5, Interesting)
Nonsensical statement ahoy (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure this statement makes much sense. Since the iPhone won't be sold without a (data-enabled) contract, shouldn't it read:
"Users will get their iPhone when they sign a contract", which has the advantage of being true, if less trolly.
Re:Nonsensical statement ahoy (Score:5, Insightful)
Talk about unreliable rumors, a store manager? There's only 5 or 10 of those in the country! How far down the food chain is that? This guys information is probably based on rumors of rumors. In other words, very possibly no relation to reality.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Users will get their iPhone when they sign a contract including both voice and data plans."
This has the advantage of pointing out that data plans are required. I know I've been considering getting an iPhone, but once you add a data plan you're basically at $80+/month. Of course, that figure is estimated using the current voice and PDA data plans. Throw in another 20 bucks minimum if you want to tether w/o violating their terms of use.
Without having actually tr
But... (Score:5, Funny)
I just wonder (Score:3, Interesting)
And lots of other usual apple customers probably are shied away by the contract enforcements connected to this thing.
I assume it will be the crowd who wants to have the latest shiny toy. I am not sure if this thing will be able to stand on its own after some initial success. Apple could have had a winner on this thing if they wouldnt have played Sony or Nintendo in trying to lock the user of this thing down!
It probably will come down to how fast the thing will be hacked open!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
no app development
We know this to no longer be true - 3rd party apps for the iphone can and will be created using methods similar to the way widgets are developed for os x. As to contracts.....why is everybody whining about contracts? *Every* phone that is not a prepaid phone requires a contract, and nearly all of them have draconian cancellation fees - why don't we wait until we have the actual details of the contract, rather than the word of an anonymous AT&T store manager.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
(PS: I don't think the iPhone will be contract restricted either)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry. (Score:3, Insightful)
So, until Apple cuts this shit of giving one provider exclusive sales rights and allows Verizon to sell it, Apple will not have me as a customer.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
What is this story about? (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, with my Treo I'm forced to purchade the $15/month unlimited data plan from Sprint. It's required for all their smartphones.
So this story seems to be about.... A theoretical contract that is the same as the typical contract and may be unfair if the price is too high (but we don't know the price yet)?
Re:What is this story about? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Get the complaint straight (Score:4, Insightful)
Where I live we don't even HAVE 3G yet, so I don't need it. But I welcome the realistic combination of WiFi and EDGE to get the widest possible network coverage and the best possible battery life (3G currently really chows down on batteries). All these things add up to actually being able to make full use of data on the device, instead of carefully hording limited battery or data amounts.
Parent
I got my Treo through Cingular, no data plan req. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What is this story about? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, I bought an Unlocked GSM Treo 650 a couple years ago, put a SIM card in it from T-Mobile, later decided I wanted to switch to Cingular because their GPRS data was faster than T-Mobile, and I've been using it ever since.
If you want an unlocked GSM smartphone you just have to buy it yourself, pay the true cos
These are all just rumours (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's face it, if this were any non-Apple or non-tech product we'd all shake our heads at the sad gullibility of the purchasing public and move on. The fact that this is a highly anticipated product that's going to have limited availability isn't anything unusual in and of itself. Apple and Cingular are going to make a good bit of money, which is what they're both in business to do.
Cellular service providers have made it a practice to "strongly encourage" customers to sign up for multi-year contracts to get a better deal on phones, subsidizing the cost of the phones, for which very few people would be willing to pay full price. The WiFi restriction, if true, is just more of the same.
In any event, I can pretty much guarantee that there will be hacks to work around this. I've never owned a phone (much less a smart phone) that wasn't hacked to get around carrier restrictions.
Go ahead, call me a luddite (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's an idea (Score:5, Interesting)
Rather than hearing gossip from AT&T reps who almost certainly know virtually nothing about the final details of iPhone marketing (the only information I'm aware of them being provided is a brochure that explains how the thing works), why don't we wait until we get official announcements from Apple and AT&T. Not only are these rumors almost certainly based upon speculation and technological ignorance, but even if both Apple and AT&T have provisionally decided to go with them, there's still a strong chance of them changing their minds in the next week or two.
It's not even 100% clear if the iPhone will need a contract at this stage. Apple hastily removed language implying such from the online version of their ads, and AT&T has internal codes set up for selling iPhones with GoPhone plans, according to some reportage. This week we've seen Apple at a high-level flip flopping on various issues, such as the pretense of ZFS in Leopard (initially ruled out, then changed to present in a stripped down form), and the ability of Leopard's bootcamp to be used as a switcher between suspended versions of Windows and Mac OS X.
The final decisions haven't been made yet.
This is news? (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone who thought they could get an iPhone without "appropriate" cellular service will also be disappointed to find out that the iPhone will not grant super-human strength either.
The iPhone has always been presented as part of a platform that included the cellular service. It was always tied tightly to the network. I don't know why anyone is surprised, then, that purchase of an iPhone comes with the network as well.
Steps to Get an iPhone (Score:4, Funny)
Crow T. Trollbot
Apple's secret recruiting plan (Score:4, Funny)
"iPhone will not be sold through established business channels -- forcing Cingular business customers to stand in line for their goodies, as individuals, at Apple stores."
Yeah, man. Like, you gotta wait in line with the rest of us. Hey, you mind if I blaze up? Thanks man. *fffffffttttt* Sure, I can spare a spliff. *fffffttt* Sure, I'll show you my Powerbook, man. Check out that widescreen.
And another business PC user is converted.
Well, good (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Well, good (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
let's wait for an authoritative source (Score:3, Insightful)
that the iphone's key features might be disabled without a mobile phone contract is all too believable in light of how mobile phones are marketed by the wireless companies. it's one of the reasons why so many people (myself included) insist on keeping the phone as simple as possible and using a second device for the pda, camera, wifi, and mp3 functions. makes it easy to change carriers also.
however, before completely going ape over this, i'd suggest waiting until someone in authority actually spells out at&t's contracts and service plans for the iphone, or to see how an iphone actually comes out of an apple store.
at&t doesn't really need a contract since the iphone only works on their network. granted, the mobile phone company contracts don't require much of the carrier, but why would at&t make any requirements for itself at all when it doesn't have to?
as for potential ipod users who want iphone features without having a phone contract; i suspect that the iphone is only the first of a new generation of ipods. over the next few years, i expect the entire ipod line will get an iphone makeover sans mobile phone features.
Welcome to reality (Score:3, Insightful)
This is why, to me, Apple lovers that despise Microsoft simply because they are Microsoft are some of the most clueless people around (the same holds true the other way around, of course). Microsoft TELLS you they are fucking you in the ass, wheresas Apple hides it (and it usually works)
ALL buisnesses are in it for the money. Welcome to reality, bud.
Re:Welcome to reality (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple, just like Microsoft, is a BUISNESS. Buisnesses are about profit. That's it.
Replace "Apple", with "Cingular"^W"AT&T" and you might be accurate there. I'm no Apple fanboy and I don't even own an iPod but if you think that Apple wants these restrictions you are insane. This was the best deal they could get with a national carrier (Verizon demanded even worse restrictions) so they are going with it.
Why they wouldn't have just released it as a unbranded GSM phone that any T-Mobile or AT&T customer could just throw a SIM card into is beyond me. It wouldn't have had all the carrier dependent features, but it would have been a workable iPod/phone combo, it would have been affordable, and it might even have set a precedent for selling these things outside the iron grasp of the carriers who want them locked down and crippled so they can provide their own revenue stream.
That would have been a nice way to Jobs to do something pro-consumer and stick it to the carriers for forcing all of these restrictions on him. Guess that was too much to hope for. Yeah, it's all about the money :(
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why they wouldn't have just released it as a unbranded GSM phone that any T-Mobile or AT&T customer could just throw a SIM card into is beyond me
SIM card? Apple won't even let you replace the BATTERY!
If you think it's only the nasty carriers that would make this a closed device, you're deluding yourself--look how "open" the ipod is.
Re:Welcome to reality (Score:5, Funny)
To use a non-car analogy, Microsoft is like....Celine Dion. I mean, sure, I can concede that she's a gifted technical singer, but she has the aesthetic sensibility of a third-grade dropout Appalachian bootlegger who lost 90% of his hearing in a still explosion, with the rest of his faculties addled by methanol poisioning and a dose of the clap he got while stationed in the Pacific theater fighting the nips. (Hi, Grampa). Now, there are some people whose palate Vann diagram overlpas well with this, and more power to them. As for me, I won't allow that meliasmic dog sick in the house. And if that were the end of it that would be fine. Now imagine a world where you go to work and they pipe Dion over the PA; and after work you go online to your bank website to pay your credit card, and there's a banner that says "Sorry -- you must be playing 'My Heart Will Go On' to access this feature"; and then your so-called friends keep sending you email with attachements that plays a mashup of 'Ce N'Etait Qu'un Reve' and 'To Love You More'; and then, to get a grip on sanity you turn on the news and Rene Angelil is on Letterman talking about how Celine Dion is spurring 'innovation' by requiring the vast majority of mp3 player manufacturers to include 'Miracle' and 'On Ne Change Pas' pre-installed, along with preview tracks of 'D'Elles' that can, in some instances, cause malware to take over your player and play 'Power of Love' repeatedly at full volume.
So yeah, I hate Microsoft. That's The Way It Is.
Parent
Re:How odd (Score:5, Insightful)
It almost sounds like they don't really want to sell the things.
No, it sounds like the damn carrier (AT&T in this case), as usual, has way too much power and is holding back true innovation by restricting what the device maker (Apple) in this case can offer to their customers.
Motorola, Nokia, etc, etc all have the same complaints about American carriers. Crippled phones that consumers don't want, disabled bluetooth profiles, the complete carrier control over what goes on the phone, etc, etc, etc. None of this is new.
I've linked this document [ssrn.com] before, but I'll link it again. A call to apply wireless network neutrality and Carterfone rules to the cell industry. A must read for anybody that thinks need practices need to end. Forward it to your State and Federal elected officials. Sooner or later this has to stop.
Parent
Re:How odd (Score:4, Informative)
I used to have a motorola v200 and all I had to do was get a driver off the net and I could load the thing up with custom ringtones and not pay a dime for them. I now have a RAZR, and I still am able to load it up with mp3's, background graphics, java, and have full unlocked bluetooth capability.
I'm not trying to be a Cingular/At&t fanboy, but I think it can be said that some carriers are better than others. There is one carrier (I think it's verizon, but correct me if I'm wrong) that totally replaces the user interface of all their phones with their own in-house one. The new interface apparently locks most of the functionality and is much less usable than the standard interface, and forces the customer to purchase all the extras through verizon.
Parent
Re:How odd (Score:5, Insightful)
the margins in the wireless industry (last I checked) were rather thin overall
It's hard to know what the margins actually are because most of them are owned by parent companies (T-Mo by Deutsche Telekom, VZW by Verizon and Vodafone, etc, etc) and don't report separate results, but even assuming that's the case I don't buy it as justification for this behavior. That was one of the "bad" things that Ma Bell did -- forcing long distance users to subsidize local service. Once Ma Bell was broken up long distance prices dropped like a brick and local service went up to reflect the true costs. In any case, why should my functionality be reduced because of their business model?
Though the amount of features available to the US market sucks
And that's entirely the fault of the carriers. In Europe you don't even typically buy a phone when you get service. You buy a phone at a Nokia store and then find a carrier to get service with. That's also how landline service worked the last time I checked -- I buy a phone (an el-cheapo at Wally World or a $300 one at Staples, doesn't matter) and then get service. The device makers have an incentive to add features to compete with each other. If the carterfone rule hadn't been applied then we might not have ever had analog modems, fax machines, answering machines, etc, etc, etc. Think of the innovation possible with cell phones if the carriers got out of the way.
Basic service must not be a huge moneymaker for them
I'd dispute that. Voice minutes cost them next to nothing to provide. A friend of mine works at the local university. They have their own telephone switch and telecom department and lease dedicated flat-rate trunks to carry their off-campus traffic. How much do you think they pay for voice minutes to the US and Canada? With the flat-rate trunks it works out to less then a hundredth of a penny per minute. With all the long distance and backbone assets that Verizon, AT&T and Sprint own, somehow I doubt that voice isn't rolling in the dough for them. It may not have as big of a margin as data or SMS, but it makes enough money.
So if all you want is a phone, go with a carrier that uses vendor lock-in to screw their other customers! You'll probably get a better deal.
I'd also dispute that. T-Mobile doesn't use vendor lock-in and they are about the best value in mobility, if you live an area with coverage. Right now they are even offering a promotion of 1,000 minutes for $39.99/mo with full N&W. That's 3.999 cents a minute. Verizon's $39.99 offering is 450 minutes or 8.8886 cents a minute. Granted, it all depends on your needs, coverage and where your friends are (mobile to mobile is nice), but I think it dispels the fact that you need to screw your customers to offer a good price on voice. If anything, T-Mo would have the highest backend cost for voice too, given that they don't own their own backhaul networks in the United States like the other carriers do.
Who pays for that? The people who run up huge finance charges, that's who
Your paying for that as well. Ever hear of the merchant fee? Even if you don't eat finance charges the merchant is eating 1.5-3.0% of every sale when you use your credit card. In fact, I'm helping you to pay for that as well because the merchant isn't allowed to pass that charge along to you -- so the cash users wind up subsidizing the credit card ones. Net result: prices go up, Visa, Mastercard and your bank all get richer.
Parent
Re:How odd (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:How odd (Score:4, Insightful)
The free market will take care of that. People already choose providers based on the features they provide. If you don't like the restrictions your carrier places on your phone, choose another one, don't go crying to the government.
We don't have a free market for cell phones! That's the whole point that nobody understands. Four carriers is not competition. It's an oligopoly. How is it competition when they all raise their SMS prices within three months of each other? How is it competition when none of them will allow unsigned applications to run on their phones? How is it competition when nobody new can break into the market because of the combination of start-up costs (billions) and a lack of available spectrum?
The government will only make things worse. Witness the Cable Card debacle for a good example of the government attempting to do something like what you're demanding and failing miserably at it.
Yes, because the carterfone decision can be compared to the Cable Card clusterfuck. The carterfone decision never led to open devices or consumer choice. Ma Bell still has a lockdown on the POTS network and won't allow you to use a phone unless you get it from her. Oh, wait....
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How odd (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony thought the same thing about the PS3, and look how that turned out.
Parent
Re:How odd (Score:5, Insightful)
- Look shiny enough to drum up interest for the iPhone 2.
- Finance the R&D on the (cheaper) iPhone 2.
Like the first generation iPod, it's not about getting a product out that will own the market, it's about getting a product out that will generate excitement and establish Apple as a player in the market.Parent
Re:DOA -- Bookmark! Bookmark! Bookmark! (Score:3, Funny)
I'm bookmarking your quote, dude!
I'll enjoy reading it again in the future, right after I re-read about how the iPod is dead.
--Richard
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Hopefully this isn't the case.