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Spotlight on Facebook Groups Affects Microsoft

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Mon Sep 10, 2007 02:17 PM
from the hate-to-be-in-the-marketing-managers-shoes dept.
The Internet Microsoft
NewsCloud writes "After Slashdot reported Facebook Exposes Advertisers To Hate Speech, the company removed its F**k Islam group for a day (it's back up now). According to the New York Times, 'Facebook declined to comment on Friday on the subject of hate speech or on what steps had been taken.' It turns out that Microsoft is the digital advertising provider for Facebook serving up ads for companies such as NetFlix, T-Mobile, Sprint, Verizon and Coca Cola. But for now, the Microsoft-served ads for all Facebook group home pages (even those complying with Facebook's Terms of Use) appear to have been taken off the site. For its part, NetFlix told me to address any concerns about its own ad placement along obscene speech with Facebook. T-Mobile said they would look into it."
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[+] Facebook Exposes Advertisers To Hate Speech 806 comments
NewsCloud writes "Does Facebook believe that no publicity is bad publicity? Why else would they leave a group called, "F**k Islam" open since July 21, 2007 despite more than 53,482 members joining an opposing group called petition: if "f**k Islam" is not shut down..we r quitting facebook group? Furthermore, advertisers such as Sprint, Verizon, T Mobile, Target, and Qwest wouldn't be too happy to learn that they are paying for ads on the 'F**k Islam' group pages. Shouldn't a startup like Facebook, reportedly worth more than a billion dollars and with over a hundred employees, be expected to enforce its own Terms of Use in less than six weeks?"
Submission: Spotlight on Facebook Groups Affects Microsoft by newscloud (1037538)
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  • ok but (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sdedeo (683762) on Monday September 10 2007, @02:24PM (#20543245) Homepage Journal
    This problem -- with user-generated content not being properly vetted by marketing departments before being juxaposed with ads -- is common to the "Web 2.0". Nobody has a "solution" to it, and the true solution is that advertisers need to buck up and learn that they can't micromanage every single waking moments of our day. Not to be some kind of bizarre technoutopian, but actually people think and act in ways that may be unpleasant to their fellows. The world doesn't actually look like one of those 1980s "Buy the World a Coke" ads.

    • I don't want to mention the site's name, but a company I used to work for had a web-site geared towards children that for many years went without advertising. After it had built up quite a large audience, my boss decided to allow an advertising agency to place a single banner advertisement on the top of the pages. The agency had assured him that the ads would be tasteful (i.e., not flashing, etc.) and child-appropriate. After a week or so of this revenue, the agency slipped up somehow and allowed an inappro

    • Nobody has a "solution" to it, and the true solution is that advertisers need to buck up and learn that they can't micromanage every single waking moments of our day.

      Well said. The huge problem with huge companies is that a large portion of their decisions in this regard are made by their legal department(s). And the cowardly results are a direct result with the fact that the legal department's "success metric" is the number of cases in which they become engaged.
    • What's taking them so long to learn it though -- it's been true for all of human history. Free people have a habit of offending people by saying what they actually think rather than what they're "supposed" to say. It's been true since Guttenberg -- If you give people the ability to speak without censorship, they'll speak. So the "solution" is to get rid of the freedom part. Make sure every post and every site is preapproved by the suits, and you'll have a safe site for advertisers. Nothing offensive wi
      • "I just wanted a Pepsi. (And they wouldn't give it to me...)"

        I know that song. About a kid in his room and his parents think he's on drugs....good stuff.

  • Well that's too bad. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LACMA (1139183) <LACMAdot@@@gmail...com> on Monday September 10 2007, @02:25PM (#20543261)
    You'd think Microsoft would have known that a social networking site comprised mainly of college students would feature at least a few obscenities and outspoken and unpopular opinions. Personally I have no problem with a "Fuck Islam" group, but if Microsoft does, does anyone really think that a Microsoft-served ad provides an endorsement of the groups opinions? If it does, why hasn't anybody been all over Google?

    • Re:Well that's too bad. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) on Monday September 10 2007, @02:29PM (#20543343)
      Read TFA. See who posted the summary. The guy essentially fabricated a story out of nowhere. Tailor-made slashvertising... Nice.
      • I have to agree with you. This "NewsCloud" guy has written a couple sensationalist articles decrying a couple expletives. I doubt he is "just" enforcing Facebook's own TOS agreement - and frankly, if Facebook starts enforcing it in an overly puritanical way, they risk losing members in their target demographic, one that likes to be vulgar and obscene.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Frosty Piss (770223)
        What I find interesting is how one group (left-leaning Slashdrones) can make such a stink about free-speech they don't like from another group (reight-leaning xenophobes) with a straight (acting) face.

      • Re:Well that's too bad. (Score:5, Funny)

        by Jeff DeMaagd (2015) on Monday September 10 2007, @02:58PM (#20543779) Homepage Journal
        Tailor-made slashvertising... Nice.

        It's a DUPE too! We had this story before.
    • You'd think Microsoft would have known that a social networking site comprised mainly of college students would feature at least a few obscenities and outspoken and unpopular opinions.

      I would imagine a "F*ck Microsoft" group would be exceedingly popular, or has that been censored already?

  • Um (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Joe Jay Bee (1151309) *
    So Microsoft provides the advertising for a site whose users created a group called Fuck Islam. And they're at fault? Typical Slashdot spin...

    This isn't just shooting the messenger. This is shooting the guy that made the uniform that the messenger wears.
    • So someone says "fuck islam" and all hell breaks loose...

      Islamic sensibilities are being affected by private non-Muslims exercizing their right to Free Speech? Well, laa dee fucking daa, don't you wish for once they'd get just as offended by suicide bombings, indentured servitude/slavery, personal vendettas, and public beheadings everpresent in their societies.

      Why do we as a free society keep rolling over for this particular religious group? Is it because they get angry and blow people up?
      • Why do we as a free society keep rolling over for this particular religious group? Is it because they get angry and blow people up?

        Sounds like a good reason to me!

        • Re:Discourse raped by political correctness? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by megaditto (982598) on Monday September 10 2007, @03:30PM (#20544293)
          I for one don't really mind if they believe whatever they like. After all, I believe in burning shrubs, talking snakes, and God that became a carpenter, walked on water, and died for my sins...

          My problem with religion starts when its members begin to impose undue burden on non-members (I am looking at you, scientologists, sectarian fundies, and radical Muslims).

          • My problem with religion starts when its members begin to impose undue burden on non-members (I am looking at you, scientologists, sectarian fundies, and radical Muslims).
            Just to point out that it's forbidden for Muslims to go door-to-door pushing their religions - at least with some Sunni that I'm familiar with.
          • Smart move not listing "Christians". But really...it seems like most groups of people try to impose their beliefs on others. Even I am guilty, I try to make everyone I know watch Firefly with me.
              • Actually, Firefly hell and Firefly heaven are the same place. You are forced to watch Firefly 24/7, the only difference is the fans love it, and for everyone else it is torture.

        • Muslims worship Mo-HAM-HEAD - literally.

          Typical American ignorance, posted by an AC nonetheless.Muslims worship Allah. Mohammed was a prophet of God, just as they view Jesus as a prophet of God.

          Agree or disagree, it's against Islam to push your religion on others. As opposed to Christianity that acts like massive MLM scheme.

          What a bunch of insane fascists they are...

          There's as many muslim fanatics as there are Chrstian fanatics. Or do we forget Waco?

          How come when a fanatical group like the Taliban comes out, Christians don't look to Waco and draw parallels?

          Me, I'm atheist, but I cer

  • Silly (Score:5, Insightful)

    by drhamad (868567) on Monday September 10 2007, @02:26PM (#20543283) Homepage
    This whole "spotlight" on the group is silly. First off, the name notwithstanding, the group really isn't that full of "hate." But even if it was, who cares?! It's a group of people that think a certain way, and it's on a site that allows people to create groups to talk about whatever they want. Why should the group be censored? I don't want to have to worry about what somebody is going to let me say, on a social site.

    • Re:Silly (Score:5, Insightful)

      by darkmeridian (119044) <william.chuangNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday September 10 2007, @06:31PM (#20546401) Homepage
      What's really scary is the reaction from the Muslim posters on Facebook.

      The group in question simply objected to extremist Islam because they were killing civilians with car bombs and beheading innocents. The group directly confronted what it thought was a politically-correct reluctance to challenge extremist Muslims who wanted to kill Westerners and infidels. In response, lots of pro-Islam groups started to suggest killing Jews and Westerners. Existing Muslim groups (roughly paraphrasing, groups titled "Israel is not a real country, delist it") began to spout extremist threats. Even moderates on those boards refused to disavow terrorism, beheadings, car bombs, crashing airplanes into skyscrapers, killing Jews, and similar violence. The moderates said they were against violence, but you have to understand the kind of threats the Muslims are facing.

      Anyone who dug into this would see the Muslim supporters on Facebook tend to be far more extreme and just flat-out crazy than anyone on "Fuck Islam." But it is too politically-sensitive to say this, thereby proving the point of the Fuck Islam groups.

      Moderate away, my friends.
  • Let the kids say whatever they want, even if you or I don't agree with it. This applies to the so-called obscenity as much as the derision for Islam. Humanity will someday grow up and realize we'll never all agree, and then we can stop being offended by our disagreement, including wanting each other dead.

  • Inappropriate overreaction... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by C10H14N2 (640033) on Monday September 10 2007, @02:31PM (#20543373)

    Canceled NetFlix over this?

    You'd think a /. submitter would understand the vagaries of such advertising relationships and the rotation systems employed. It's not like NetFlix specifically paid to be seen by members of "Neo-Nazi movie-lovers for the destruction of Israel."

    Sending them snarky letters as if that was the case is pretty childish...

  • I find it hard to believe that MS would pull the ads so quickly, if at all. Perhaps Facebook rotates its advertising providers and today is Microsofts day off?

  • So what exactly constitutes "obscene speech"? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by RickRussellTX (755670) on Monday September 10 2007, @02:32PM (#20543397)

    Simple question, really. You can choose to agree with speech, and you can choose not to agree with speech. I'll even stretch the concept and say that speech which wanders into explicit sexuality might be considered "obscene" under a traditional judicial concept of pornographic obscenity.

    But what makes the Facebook site obscene? The use of the F-word alone?
    • That, and tomatoes are vegetables.

      (my apologies to the international /. community and those under 30 for the SCOTUS references)

      To me, it's speech which promotes or incites others to commit violent acts. And there are too many gray areas to provide good legislation for (well, against) it.

  • Netflix is not the problem (Score:5, Insightful)

    by IronWilliamCash (1078065) on Monday September 10 2007, @02:32PM (#20543403)
    I think the only real problem in this situation is the loser who closed his Netflix account because he doesn't understand how the web works...

  • Free speech (Score:5, Insightful)

    by be-fan (61476) on Monday September 10 2007, @02:34PM (#20543435)
    This is sort of thing is absolutely the point of having free speech. Of course, since FaceBook is a private entity, they do not have no legal obligation to be a forum for free speech, but it would be great if they were.

    That said, I'm kind of curious to see how far this tolerance goes. I think a FaceBook group attacking overly conservative Islamic culture is a perfectly valid and topical political point. Can I have a FaceBook group called "F**k Negros", to attack the inner-city black youth culture that fills the city I live in with violence? Can I have a "F**k GWB" group to attack the dumbass president who is screwing things up in the Middle East? Can I have a "F**k the Jews" group attacking the whiny Jews who scream "anti-semitism!" in order to stifle legitimate debate? If so, I have a lot more respect for FaceBook than I used to...

    • I agree. One of the worst thing about all these advertising driven social networking sites is the potential for advertisers to use threats to suppress free speech.

      These groups are seemingly well meaning but basically horribly evil. This one wants to suppress F**k Islam. One on LiveJournal (which LJ partially caved in to) wanted LJ to clear out any accounts that listed pedophilia as an interest. It is most distressing to me, and quite telling how one of the first things they try to go for is the advertis

      • Not really. I think a "fuck white people" group would be perfectly appropriate for other reasons, but the folks who want to muck things up further in the Middle East do not self-identify with white people in the way the other groups self-identify with blacks, muslims, and jews, respectively. Perhaps "Fuck Neo-Conservatives" would be more apropos.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Omnifarious (11933) *

            Though I am a white person myself, if I were to see a group disparaging white people I would assume it would target self-absorbed suburbanites with their cookie-cutter consumer culture and fleet of SUVs.

            Just as there are light colored people who participate in black inner-city youth culture, I'm sure there are dark colored people who participate in the bland suburbanite culture I describe. But I still associate it with white people.

            I think what you describe as 'white privilege' might be better described

          • members of minority groups don't have the advantage of thinking of themselves in "neutral," non-racial terms

            Don't hold me responsible for how other people think of themselves. I would like nothing more than for minorities to think of themselves first as individuals and not as members of an ethnic group, and many of them do (immediate counterexample), but those who don't need to take responsibility for themselves. Sure, most people do identify themselves with a stereotypical group of people with undifferentiated interests and preferences, but they're supposed to outgrow it after high school.

  • Smells like FUD (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Miltazar (1100457) on Monday September 10 2007, @02:34PM (#20543441) Homepage
    Facebook, like many of these sites, uses an advertisement service. In this case, as mentioned in the summary, it uses Microsoft. So let me get this straight, someone is mad because a vaguely random placed ad is on some hate speech group thats part of user-content created website? From that Idealog link, it really sounds like he thinks some marketing guy up at Netflix said to himself, "Hey, look at this F**K Islam group, lets buy an ad space there." More likely they just bought ads with Microsoft to be place anywhere that uses Microsoft's ad service. Its not facebook's fault, and definitely not Netflix/T-Mobile's fault. This isn't television where you can specify during what show you want your ad on. Its a dynamic ad, it places it randomly among whatever sites use the system. Netflix bought a service from Provider A, doesn't mean they support Random Hatespeech Facebook Group B. This really must be a slow news day.

  • Ummm... as for the advertising part... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by RobertM1968 (951074) on Monday September 10 2007, @02:38PM (#20543491) Homepage Journal

    Who cares? It means I am less likely to see an ad when I log in to FaceBook. Hooray!

    To blame any of MS's ad placement on MS is ridiculous. That they (possibly) took their ads offline because they did not want them associated with a hate site is a good thing - regardless of anyone's view on "Freedom of Speech".

  • Free speech. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by king-manic (409855) on Monday September 10 2007, @02:42PM (#20543555)
    I'm not too sure but did free speech just trump economic interest and aggressive religious interests?

    Should we celebrate? I'm so confused.
  • is because somebody removed him from their top 8. :)

  • This is odd. I thought free speech in America only applied to those opinions with which a significant portion of the general public agrees.

    For the site to be back up suggests that at least someone in America values free speech to the extent that they would tolerate an opinion with which they disagree.

    Truly strange indeed!

  • "Free Speech" (Score:5, Informative)

    by LMacG (118321) on Monday September 10 2007, @03:08PM (#20543947) Journal
    Everybody wants to go on and on about free speech. For the record, the first amendment to the US Constitution reads as follows:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


    See, it's about what Congress can not do. It has pretty much no effect on how a privately owned website operates. Facebook could ban all groups or user profiles with the word "gun" or "fuck" or "Linux" in them and it still wouldn't be a "free speech issue."
    • Free speech and other fundamental rights aren't just about the laws congress can write, they are a statement of the fundamental values that the majority of U.S. Citizens hold. An amendment overturning the first amendment could be passed if it hand popular support. One would hope that a website that claims to be a place for free social interaction would respect the fundamental right of free speech, even though they are not bound to do so by law. If the general public demands that speech like this not be a

  • Why does Slashdot keep posting this crap? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hanssprudel (323035) on Monday September 10 2007, @03:11PM (#20544003)
    "Fuck Islam" is not hate speech, any more than "Fuck Christianity", "Fuck Scientology" or "Fuck Atheism" is. If you don't like a set of ideological beliefs and superstitions (ie, a religion) then you have the right to voice that opinion, and the people who try to silence that are the ones who ought to be punished. If you can't handle that not everybody likes what you like, then I recommend you don't read it. In any case, stop perstering us about it.

    That said, "Fuck Islam" is obscene speech, but maybe the site in question has a policy of tolerating obscene speech. It is their choice after all.

  • Whole Atricle is a Troll! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Monday September 10 2007, @03:34PM (#20544351)
    I think this whole article is a troll. Someone didn't like criticism of Islam, and it taking every avenue to censor and suppress it -- and trying to get the rest of us to go along. Islam is richly deserving of criticism and scholarly discussion, but try that in an actual Islamic country and you may easily find yourself in jail, if not having already had your head cut off. If you support Free Speech on the Internet, then you must be against this censorship, even if you find the site itself distasteful.

  • It's Not Hate Speech (Score:4, Interesting)

    by logicnazi (169418) <logicnazi@@@gmail...com> on Monday September 10 2007, @03:36PM (#20544385) Homepage
    "Fuck Islam" is no more hate speech than "Fuck Creationists" or "Fuck Republicans". They both are ways to express strong rejection of a certain belief system. Merely because people label their beliefs religious doesn't magically make them immune from criticism.

    More precisely the concept of hate speech is incoherent. It is impossible to at once give a definition of hate speech that makes it clear why it is significantly worse than things like "Fuck Republicans" but yet also makes it obvious that the things termed hate speech, e.g., "Fuck Islam", qualify.

    I agree that speech that involves the phrase "Fuck Islam" is more likely to be motivated by thoughtless prejudice than other sorts of speech but mere correlation doesn't get you very far. There is going to be a correlation between "Do you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior" and ignorant prejudice as well but this doesn't make the statement of evangelical beliefs hate speech.

    A religious belief is a belief like any other and it's explicit rejection of evidence or proof doesn't means if anything it deserves less protection from criticism than our other beliefs not more. Of course we need to combat hate directed against the people who are muslim, christian or whatever. The fact that they believe something stupid doesn't warrant hating them, most of us believe some stupid shit. However, the way to do this isn't to treat phrases criticizing the belief differently than phrases criticizing conservatism. That just encourages people.

  • Hate speech is nothing (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I don't see what is so bad about "Fuck Islam". I mean, if I said "Fuck religion", would that be worse because it includes all religion? Should I outline and elaborate on the countless people who have been killed in the name of God to give you an idea why I hold this sentiment?

    I mean, people act like forming an online community of people who dislike the beliefs of Islam is a crime against humanity. They are just as justified in harboring a dislike of people who believe in Islam as you are in disliking them f
  • If you dont watch it, most any religious group will be considered to spew hate speech.( which they all do at one point or another )

    Personally i say if words hurt you, there are more fundamental issues going on. Dont like what is being said? Then dont read it. Its that simple.
  • The thinker to idiots ratio on that group is better then 50:50 so I think it aught exist and be supported by people who respect the ability to voice an opinion without censure.
    • Interesting. The thing here is these groups don't own Facebook. So doesn't Facebook have the right to criticize and or protest this hate speech be removing it? I mean the people in that group could always put up their own site? Think about things like newspapers. Just because you write a letter to the editor they don't have to print it. Just because you want to put an ad in they don't have to take it, even if you are a reporter the editor has the right to not publish what you write.

      • Interesting. The thing here is these groups don't own Facebook. So doesn't Facebook have the right to criticize and or protest this hate speech be removing it? I mean the people in that group could always put up their own site? Think about things like newspapers. Just because you write a letter to the editor they don't have to print it. Just because you want to put an ad in they don't have to take it, even if you are a reporter the editor has the right to not publish what you write.

        I guess the point was tha
        • I didn't know that the other groups exist. My guess is that to be fair they too should have been removed as well.
    • My solution - incorporate a moderation system like the one on slashdot to filter out the dickwads.

      Heh. Like the moderation system here on slashdot really works to filter out the "dickwads" as you say. No, it also works to "filter out" anything the moderator doesn't want to hear. Instead, people should engage the gray matter between their ears and THINK about what they read, and if they don't agree, make a sighing sound and MOVE ON. Censorship just gives power to those who appoint them

    • they will be accused of pandering to a bunch of whiney liberal bitches, resulting in a loss of popularity,

      Doesn't that describe the current college campus rather well?

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