KDE's Version Timing Drops It In Ubuntu Support Priority

News.com is reporting that the next version of Ubuntu will see KDE unsupported, but only for the time being. Because of the dramatic changeover from KDE 3.5 to 4.0, Ubuntu sponsor Canonical is unwilling to initially support the popular Linux GUI. Gnome will still be supported, and the company expects to return support to kubuntu soon. "Developer interest is focused on KDE 4.0, but it's not mature enough yet to use in the next KDE-based variation of Ubuntu, called Kubuntu, Scott James Remnant, leader of the Ubuntu Desktop team, said in an explanation to a Kubuntu mailing list. But most Kubuntu developers adding features "upstream" of today's products are focused on KDE 4.0, meaning that it's risky to release a long-term support version based on 3.5."

Not suprising

[proudfoot (1096177)]

The next version of Kubuntu/Ubuntu would have been an LTS, which means that it would be aimed at those who expected a long life out of an operating system, such as enterprise users.
KDE 4.0, in its current, and rather buggy state, does not fit the bill.

Re:Not suprising

[Fri13 (963421)]

KDE4 starts KDE 4.x series and it isn't in that condition that everyone could use it like they can use KDE 3.5 on it current state. So, then when KDE 4.1 comes, it should be then in state it is good for anyone. Now when in few weeks KDE4 comes out, it is mostly for application developers and users who knows how to submit wishes and use KDE3.x applications in KDE4 too etc.

LTS support didnt come to kubuntu because KDE 3.5.x series support will be ended before LTS support and KDE4 isn't in shape it could be supported time what LTS needs. So, Kubuntu dont get LTS support, mayby next time when LTS version is coming from ubuntu.

But for those whole like to have supported KDE, can turn for other distributions like Mandriva, SUSE etc.

(im not developer but this info i have got from KDE blogs and it is UOM)

Re:

[nurb432 (527695)]

But it also says they wont support 3.5.x which really is irritating for us KDE users.

Good thing FreeBSD 7. will be out by then.

Re:

[jilles (20976)]

So basically you are telling all those companies out there considering to switch to linux that in 6 months there is going to be noone around to support whatever they are installing now?. Pretty tough message either they install stuff that is pretty much untested and might become usable over the next year or they install stuff that is pretty well tested but that nobody wants to support anymore. Sounds like Microsoft stopping support for XP when they were still beta testing Vista (which some people might argu

Re:Not suprising

[phoenix.bam! (642635)]

KDE 3.5 will be perfectly usable for many more years, but people working on the Kubuntu project have moved to KDE4 for the most part. Considering they are volunteers it is perfectly reasonable for them to do so. But without anyone working on the packages, Kubuntu can't release a long term support version of Kubuntu with KDE 3.5. There just isn't anyone around to maintain it.

Re:

[Locutus (9039)]

considering that Ubuntu's LTS means security fixes and not application updates, you'd think that they could swing a deal with KDE people or even the Kubuntu people to ship KDE3 and just provide bug fixes as REQUIRED. Missing out on such a large market is not going to be a good thing for KDE. After all, many of the 'big' distro's are gnome based now and losing any more ground could hurt.

That is if Canonical is really moving anywhere with the LTS kits. Three years is a long time to miss out on.

LoB

Re:Not suprising

[Almost-Retired (637760)]

I agree this will be unfortunate for KDE.

However your inference that LTS is of limited utility misses the point. 6.06 was chosen as the host platform for emc, precisely because by using 6.06, the emc developers were guaranteed a stable platform and could then concentrate on improving emc, and boy howdy have they ever. It is, I believe, the fastest moving development I've ever seen for an OS product in the field of computer numerical control software. It has gone from a somewhat twitchy & difficult to tune 3 axis milling machine driver to a stable 6 axis platform (9 is being discussed) capable of operating either a mill or a lathe. It can now bore a hole, then swap bits and thread both the bolt to fit that hole, and the hole itself on the milling machines table, I've done the threaded hole operation myself. Or to do the ornate carving in 3D of a beds headboard on a production line basis in a major high quality furniture makers factory.

When the next LTS comes out, emc will have to chose which of the realtime additions to the next kernel will be used, and adapt emc to live with it, and once done they can get back to the real project, that of making emc the accepted king of such applications. It is not far from that status now as commercial controllers are being ripped out, and emc put in their place to control machining centers as the older machines are being rebuilt, both due to wear in the machine, and bit rot in the controlling software which is no longer supported.

So the LTS versions do have a place in this world, very much so.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
10.0 times 0.1 is hardly ever 1.0.

Re:Not suprising

[Simon80 (874052)]

I recently wrote a patch to fix a particularly egregious bug in Kopete 3.5 (the history search feature being totally and unnecessarily slow), and the response I got when I submitted the patch to the mailing list was that it would be pointless to apply it, they're not making any more releases of that branch. So there are people around to maintain stuff, but apparently nobody around to release it.

ubuntu shmoobuntu

[FudRucker (866063)]

ubuntu wants to kick a release out the door every 6 months, i think it would be wise to release once a year and no more frequent than that, the rest of the Linux distros & community works at a slower pace than ubuntu wants to run at...

Re:ubuntu shmoobuntu

[phoenix.bam! (642635)]

Ubuntu feature freezes all releases. For six months nothing about your desktop changes, at all. Only security and bug fixes are released. If they moved to a one year release cycle they would either end up hopelessly out of date, or would have to sacrifice desktop consistency without a given distribution. Ubuntu doesn't want to surprise users with an update to their desktop that changes functionality.

Re:

[empaler (130732)]

They're aiming at releasing twice a year with enough new features to catch the interest of the public, and only release STABLE every now and then. Next scheduled release (April 08, 8.04) is the upcoming stable branch.
KDE4 will probably be backported to 7.10, and will most certainly be included in 8.10.
The reiterate how above relates to your comment (sorry, I get carried away sometimes), the point of the twice-a-year release schedule is being able to make press releases and submit a lot of stories to Digg a

Re:ubuntu shmoobuntu

[ditoa (952847)]

Personally I like Ubuntu's approach. IMHO Linux for the desktop can lose momentum very easily but Ubuntu seems to be keeping things rather stable. I have seen more improvements in Linux for the desktop since Ubuntu became popular than any time before. Perhaps it is just coincidence, perhaps not. Either way 6 months isn't an outrageously quick turn around time, I feel yearly releases would just cause everything to slow down.

Re:ubuntu shmoobuntu

[ditoa (952847)]

Your comparison is idiotic, momentum is needed regardless of if there is a "race" or not. Momentum is needed just to get things done in general. I am surprised you do not understand this.

As for the pointless attack on "lusers", what exactly is your point? That the default configurations are too simple? How is this a bad thing? You can change it however you want so why complain? Because it is not how YOU want it? Linux still has many rough edges, making it simpler is important not just for wider adoption but also just to make lifer easier for people. Providing I can still change it, I don't care how it is by default. Having everything complex from the get go is just stupid, why make things harder than they need to be?

Re:

[Khaed (544779)]

Eh, I went from Slackware to Ubuntu because I wanted it to just work. My printer randomly stopped working and refused to reinstall no matter what I did, I spent hours reading about my printer and Linux, CUPS, etc. Nothing worked, at all. I bought the printer for its linux support. After a while I decided that it wasn't worth my time to fuck with text file configurations, recompile things, and in general be frustrated that no one had an answer.

If that makes me a luser, it's a badge I'll wear proudly whil

Re:

[Wowsers (1151731)]

Mandriva / Mandrake went from a yearly release back to 6 months due to user demand. When it went to the yearly release people didn't like it.

http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/21/2348253 [slashdot.org]

Re:

[petermgreen (876956)]

ubuntu releases every six months BUT three out of four of those releases have a short support life and are aimed at those who want/need to be on the bleeding edge. One release in four is supported for a much longer period (3 years on the desktop 5 on the server).

The problem as I understand it is that the current KDE situation has put ubuntu in a tight spot, they either totally rip up thier release schedule (which would not be a good thing for their acceptance in the enterprise), they pay people to do a lot

Re:ubuntu shmoobuntu

[SoopahMan (706062)]

Strongly disagree. Ubuntu is doing a lot of things right, and the recent commercial end-user available machines rallying around Ubuntu/Gnome shows it. If anything other projects should speed up to keep pace with Ubuntu.

The regular release cycle helps contributing developers to enjoy their work - they can count on finished new features to be out in less than 6mos, rather than less than a year, which can be pretty exciting. And it aids iterative development - a year between releases can encourage hail mary style development where you go big and failures are crushing.

I hope this doesn't mean

[Neuropol (665537)]

my fancy blue Kubuntu splash screen isn't going to work any more.

Someone explain how LTS works to Zonk?

[empaler (130732)]

... adding features "upstream" of today's products are focused on KDE 4.0, meaning that it's risky to release a long-term support version based on 3.5.

Someone's not been paying attention to the point of LTS - the point is that since there is no addition of major features, there's less risk involved, making it a better choice for those seeking stability. Zonk's next accepted feature:

FreeBSD - too many versions?
News.com reports that only damned fools would go for FreeBSD 5.5 - where no major features have been added for years. Server maintainers should get with the program and start download FreeBSD 8 alphas - it has something called superpages and network stack virtualization, and while none of us know what that means, the names are impressive.

Re:

[MMC Monster (602931)]

The problem is: if a bug is noticed in KDE 3.5.x in a couple years, are developers going to waste time fixing it?

Re:

[wanderingknight (1103573)]

Yeah, but all the things you mentioned don't represent major application overhauls. They're mostly point releases, while KDE 4 is a complete remake of KDE.

I'd rather see them be honest

[Realistic_Dragon (655151)]

The Gutsy version of Kubuntu broke a _lot_ of things on my powerbook. Up until this release I was really happy with Linux on it, rating it well above OS X for geeks. Right now I'm seriously considering reverting back to Feisty.

So, with that in mind, it's actually nice to see them declare that something won't be working _before_ I waste time trying to upgrade to it. I can then make an informed decision about what to do, instead of using a half assed release that would disappoint me. Not meeting expectations is about the worst thing you can do to your credibility.

Re:

[gambolt (1146363)]

just use debian. It's the same thing only the emphasis is on the code and technical perfection, not the eyecandy

Re:

[gambolt (1146363)]

why run a release? At any point testing is more stable than most of Ubuntu, which is based on a snapshot of unstable.

Re:

[calebt3 (1098475)]

They upgrade slower.

Misleading article

[csnydermvpsoft (596111)]

Looking at the mailing list message [ubuntu.com] linked from the article clears up things. Kubuntu 8.04 will not be "unsupported" - it will simply not be an LTS (long-term support) release. This means that it will "only" be supported for 18 months on the desktop instead of three years.

Also, the concern is not whether features will still be being added to 3.5, but whether bugs fill be fixed upstream. From TFM: "Will a bug in KDE 3.5 receive upstream attention in March 2011?"

Re:Misleading article

[theshowmecanuck (703852)]

Doubtful, as an AC mentioned (in a much cruder way), Trolltech is not supporting QT3 any more... or at least not much longer since they are now at QT4. KDE3.x QT3 and KDE4 is programmed using QT4. At least that is how I understood things to be.

Bottom line is that KDE3.x likely is not really going to be supportable till 2011. But who knows? That is a long way away.

KDE release and LTS

[Pecisk (688001)]

Disclaimer: I am GNOME user for eight years, but I recommend KDE for powerusers. Thanks God that we have choice.

Problem is very simple - KDE guys don't guarantee that KDE 3.5 will be supported next 3 years (which is obvious - KDE 4 is just around the corner and all development efforts will be channelled to it), but KDE 4 won't be useful until end of next year (basis is there, but lot of stuff must be ported). So it is kinda dumb situation. However, Kubuntu 8.04 WILL be released, it just won't be 3 years supported, aka LTS, but tradicionally 18 months, which is half of that time. After that, Kubuntu 8.10 release will contain KDE 4 at it's best.

So - not kinda cool that there won't be LTS for KDE, but still - there will be release.

p.s. it is a little bit sad that rather fine article summary contains somehow weak attempt to cause flamewar. Yes, KDE is popular, but also is GNOME - I know lot of KDE fanboys has problems to admit that (ohh, and it is similar with GNOME fanboys to admit that KDE is desktop of choice for many people, of course).

Anything on the KDE 4.0 release?

[mobby_6kl (668092)]

Is there any info regarding how soon KDE 4 will be out?
I'm having problems with KDE under FreeBSD, but now Mr Yushchenko suggests [blogspot.com] I should just use the latest release. I'm not sure if 3.5 will do the trick, or I should just wait for 4.0?

What next for Kubuntu users?

[Just Some Guy (3352)]

I use Kubuntu and was looking forward to the new version. What does this mean for me? Will I be stuck on the current version while the Ubuntu folks roll out a nice LTS version with nice features I won't be getting, or will there be an "unstable" version I can track?

Failing all that, what's a nice distro for KDE power users and developers? I've been using Debian for ages and I'm comfortable with Gentoo (although I'd prefer something else). Any suggestions?

Re:

[Joe Tie. (567096)]

Going by the way kubuntu normally works, I'd be surprised if it came down to much more than adding a second repository to get access to kde4 packages.

Re:

[Dragonslicer (991472)]

From what I've heard, and I may be mistaken, KDE4 will be in the standard repositories (universe, maybe?) for 8.04. I believe the plan is to have two installation discs available, one that installs KDE 3.5.x and one that installs KDE 4.0.x. I would guess that installing the other version from either starting point would be fairly easy.

distro for KDE *users

[KwKSilver (857599)]

what's a nice distro for KDE power users and developers?

Since you are a Debian user already, have you looked into Sidux [sidux.com]? It is based on Debian Sid, but has been fairly solid for me, even though I'm no developer, or even a power user. I've used it for most of the year, since the release of "Tartaros" in May. Now, I have had problems with X breakage, but these seem to have been due to the ATI video card rather than Sid/Sidux, and I' am posting from a Sidux install. If you are a Debian power-user, you sh

Re:

[CheeseTroll (696413)]

The article wasn't really clear, but someone else pointed out that it most likely means that the next Kubuntu will be supported for 18 months, rather than 3 years like the LTS Gnome version.

Disappointing Turn

[Jekler (626699)]

I think this move is a mistake because the goal of Ubuntu has been to lessen the gap between non-technical users and Linux gurus. This introduces another layer of complexity for those non-technical users. I think it's a mistake to mix LTS and non-LTS in same-numbered/named versions of the OS. They have a variety of options here and I think they picked the worst of the lot. They should just add it to a community maintained repository or a backport from the next version.

Someone with an active interest in Linux isn't likely to be confused, but there's a growing number of Linux users who don't follow Linux as an interest, it's just the thing on their computer. More than most other distros, those are the people that Ubuntu has been trying to cater to. I think they chose the worst possible option given their target audience.

It might seem ridiculous to think a seemingly minor detail could confuse or scare off people, but after years of working in support (and I think any support representatives would agree) you might be surprised at how easily people form mental blocks and shut down (mentally) when faced with any computer-related issue. When you walk someone through a process and a button doesn't say exactly what you indicate, they panic. To them "END" is not the same as "FINISH" or "DONE, even though they should all mentally register as a word signifying completion. And then they won't even tell you the name of the button that appeared on their screen, they'll only tell you that they don't see the one you said, like you're playing some sort of sadistic "I Spy" riddle game. Sorry for the digression. Old trauma.

(I'm not knocking Ubuntu for catering to non-technical users. I prefer Ubuntu myself, though I've been a Linux user much longer.)

Re:

[arendjr (673589)]

This makes no sense. You're assuming dropping the LTS term will make it more complex for non-technical users, but non-technical users don't care about the LTS term. The only people that care about the LTS term are people that need support, like IT departments, people who are not that easily confused. Really, non-technical people don't care about LTS, don't care whether their operating system carries an LTS label, and what they don't care about, they're not confused about, they just want it to work.

And yet the question remains:

[shrikel (535309)]

KDE or emacs?

Re:And yet the question remains:

[MarkRose (820682)]

Haven't they already integrated KDE into emacs yet?

Re:

[haeger (85819)]

I'd go for KDE since Emacs still needs a decent text editor. ;-)

.haeger

I still don't get it

[realdodgeman (1113225)]

I can see that Kubuntu 8.04 will be released without LTS. Fair enough.

But this is just confusing. Will it use KDE 3.5, or will it use KDE 4.0?

Re:I still don't get it

[dasmoo (1052358)]

It'll be using 3.5. Long term support is not offered because upstream won't be prioritizing fixes for 3.5 bugs in three years time

Right now is not the time...

[Kjella (173770)]

I use Kubuntu. Right now KDE is in a major transition phase, moving from KDE3/qt3 to KDE4/qt4 is a bigger change than Gnome has ever done, seriously. While a few things survive porting it's fairly close to a rewrite of everyting KDE is. Supporting KDE4 for a LTS is a "no way" kind of thing, it'll barely be released and KDE has some creative defintions of RC. The only real option would be supporting KDE 3.5, which while I think would be good it something upstream may or may not do. After all, "kubuntu" will support all the server packages in Ubuntu, just not KDE. If they've been recültant to promise 3 years support, I certainly understand why Canonical would. When push comes to shove, they really don't want to sell much more than what upstream provides anyway.

Re:News?

[BlueParrot (965239)]

Previously kubuntu release have been synchronous with the ubuntu releases, this decision breaks that pattern which is why it is news. It looks as if ubuntu and kubuntu may actually diverge enough to become separate distributions.

Re:

[h4rm0ny (722443)]

Oh fantastic. No kidding - guess what I decided to install on my new computer this afternoon! :D

Kubuntu 8.04 still coming

[HeroreV (869368)]

Kubuntu 8.04 is still planned to be released alongside Ubuntu 8.04, just without long-term service as previously planned. That just means the Gnome stuff in 8.04 will receive security updates longer than the KDE stuff in 8.04.

LTS

[imtheguru (625011)]

It relates to Long term support. KDE delayed the release of 4.0 for ubuntu 7.10 (october). It cannot thus be included in the LTS version coming out next year. This is mostly KDE's own fault for not meeting their projected deadlines.

Cheers.

Re:LTS

[mabhatter654 (561290)]

or rather KED is "done when it's done" and Ubuntu needs a full cycle of completion before they'll claim LTS status for KED 4. In this case KDE 4 will only have been released 3 months before Canonical has to make a decision on wether to be tied to that release for 5 years. Ubuntu is much smaller than Red Hat or Suse and they don't want to play the games of supporting backports and cross-grades like done with the various boxed versions of Suse or RHEL. They waited until an odd time to release that's on nobody else's schedule.. The more politically correct thing might be to delay the LTS release in general then fewer feelings would be hurt.

The situation is not that KDE 4 is "not supported" but the combo in 8.04 will include BOTH 3.5 and 4.0! but only for the standard 18 months. Then the 8.10 will be fully supported for 4.0 only and probably LTS as well. It's a matter of Canonical not wanting to be tied up supporting bleeding edge releases just yet. Remember, Red Hat and Suse don't SUPPORT the free versions for customers, only the carefully limited pay-for versions and if you go "off the reservation" with upstream updates, they tell you to reinstall the base just like other commercial OS vendors do. Part of the Ubuntu experience is that there is no artificial divide between the "open source" and the "tweaked" versions.. it's their stated interest to work CLOSER to the upstream source, not wall their stuff off to versions they have to babysit for 5 years like RH or Suse has.

Re:

[Locklin (1074657)]

Really? with commercial support for three years? oh wait... never mind.

KDE4rc is already in the repos... were just talking about long term support here.

Re:

[moro_666 (414422)]

I have to second that statement.

With the 2 latest releases of Ubuntu :

* Take a shiny new lenovo laptop with ati x1400 graphics and try to "ubuntu it" ... it won't work. the "open source" ati driver doesn't support the card, the vesa graphics doesn't manage to display the installer window (because the resolution is too small, probably a vesa bug) and the automatic tool that lets you switch between resolutions and drivers just crashes along.
* Why why why and why does the default deskt

Re:

[Oktober Sunset (838224)]

ah, who's the racist now eh? Begrudging a poor gay nigger the freedom to express himself, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.