TechNet Users Revolt Over Vista SP1 Unavailability

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "There's a growing revolt among Microsoft TechNet & MSDN subscribers who are frustrated that they can't yet get Vista SP1 and test their software on it. This can't be good news for anyone hoping that SP1 will have better compatibility. While SP1 has been released to manufacturing, and pirate copies are easy to find, Microsoft is withholding it from subscribers until early March. According to the article, some frustrated users are upset enough that they plan to abandon TechNet entirely and turn to piracy." Update: 02/12 17:37 GMT by KD : Sean0michael writes, "Aaccording to the Technet blog, they have pushed up the date to before the end of February, though no exact date is mentioned."

I'm Shocked!

[by Anonymous Coward]

How is Microsoft abusing its users still news?

Re:

[Billly Gates (198444)]

The disk i/o is teh worst part of Vista more than anything.

Not only is free being a rip off but customers are actually paying more to upgrade to XP. I would do so if I could get drivers for my notebook.

It works and I suppose thats the most important thing. The new GUI can also be fustrating too until a month or so to get used to it.

The new sp1 caused numerous blue screens on my notebook when I tried a rc so I think I will skip this sp out and wait for sp1.1. :-)

Re:

[leenks (906881)]

2K and XP were better in this respect too. Anyway, since you mentioned "laptop" I suspect this is a new dual-core laptop you bought which came with Vista installed - so the improved responsiveness is going to be partly, if not totally, down to the second processor. Unless you haven't got a dual-core machine in which case I'll look like an ass.

Re:

[Ardaen (1099611)]

The reason people make it sound so bad is because it should be an improvement. The problems it has are pretty unacceptable for a product that represents years (they had what, 5 years?) of development and 'improvement' over XP. If you look at it by itself, it may not be so bad. But compared to its predecessor and competition... well you have to ask some questions.

Re:Where's My Crapware?

[Skye16 (685048)]

I've yet to see Vista come up as a net negative for me, after install. Copying files is an atrocity, there's no doubt about it, but the minor upgrades to damn near everything else means Vista is a definite improvement over XP, at least for the ways in which I use it. I can understand other people have different problems. I also understand and accept that people like to bitch about things for twice the amount of time it would take to find their workarounds. Yes, this is a new OS, and yes, you will have to learn how to do things differently. Anyone expecting otherwise is a fool or a moron. And compared to its competition, the question is simple: can you be a hardcore gamer on any other OS than Windows? Not unless you want to spend half your time configuring Cedega or Wine to do your bidding. And as far as I'm concerned, that's the only question that needs answered. Other people, however, are different, and want different things. They prioritize things differently, and I can accept that. To some, the change in work flow and the requirement on a decent video card and processor may seem like something that should be prosecuted by the World Court as a Crime against Humanity. To me, I expected the former and my computer always has a decent video card and processor, so the bumped up graphics doesn't show any noticeable signs of slowdown at all over XP. After a certain tipping point, you just can't tell which one is faster, though you know it has to be XP as it doesn't have nearly the eye candy or nearly the bloat. There may be a few operations Vista does faster, but again, after a certain point, you don't even notice. Unless you're trying to copy files across your network. In that case, make your time. All your base are belong to slow copy speeds.

huh?

[tacokill (531275)]

Copying files is an atrocity

In 2008, that's enough for me to call it a lemon. Without caveats. Say what you want about all the other fantastic crap and I'd still say it's a lemon if the OS can't copy files correctly or efficiently.

I can't believe there are apologists for this problem. Copying files is pretty fundamental to how computers work. Why on earth would anyone give any company a free pass for getting it wrong? Hell, anything less than 100% perfection is a failure in my book.

I am st

Windows users are revolting? Seems unlikely.

[Gary W. Longsine (124661)]

How are they revolting? Are they heading over to the Apple Store [apple.com] and buying MacBooks? If they really wanted to revolt, they would install Linux or FreeBSD or buy a Macintosh and never look back. TechNet users are particularly hard core Windows lovers, masochistic, really. I bet they tough this one out. They are not revolting. They are reveling in their delicious pain.

Re:Windows users are revolting? Seems unlikely.

[Divebus (860563)]

Most Windows uses I know are quite revolting, actually. (someone had to say it, if it hasn't already)

PROTIP

[jrronimo (978486)]

I don't know if I'm just special or not, but if you go to Connect(.microsoft.com) and download the enabler for Service Pack 1 Refresh 2 and, well, enable it, you can get Windows Vista Service Pack 1 RTM. Microsoft has confirmed (I am pretty sure) that Refresh 2 == RTM: http://www.mydigitallife.info/2008/02/07/microsoft-confirms-vista-sp1-rc-refresh-2-rcr2-is-rtm-release/ [mydigitallife.info].

I'm not even a technet subscriber or anything... just a beta tester. :)

Re:

[auzy (680819)]

Microsoft has not confirmed I think. Mary Jo Foley Confirmed, and shes barely creditable..

If you don't believe me, check her write up on WWDC. http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=505 [zdnet.com] , in which case, she obviously never researched the features properly, and obviously didn't bother to research them, even while doing a follow-up on it, because the forums were full..

I think she just spoke to some guy at Microsoft, they said "yeah, its pretty much the same", and she goes "yeah, they are the same, they just chan

Re:

[TheNetAvenger (624455)]

Connect(.microsoft.com) and download the enabler for Service Pack 1 Refresh 2 and

Actually connect has the RTM downloads for SP1, the WU enabler and even the ISOs and distribution packages.

So whether anything changed from Refresh 2 doesn't matter, as the RTM is available.

Re:

[PhrostyMcByte (589271)]

I think those are only available for testers.

Re:Another Slashdot "Tempest in Teapot" MS-FUD

[Adambomb (118938)]

This definitely seems like molehill territory if SP1R2 is the same as the SP1 RTM. The developers themselves do seem to have one legitimate greivance amongst the whole thing: If they received the details at exactly the same time as the populace, what value does their TechNet or MSDN subscriptions truely have in the long run?

I'm not saying NONE i'm just saying less than they expected.

Not that big a deal though, cancel your technet or msdn if this really sets your face on fire.

Not just Microsoft

[by Anonymous Coward]

This is a great example of a trend that has been building steam for several years now. The fact that pirate networks are more often than not, the easiest way to get what you need, whether you are a paying customer or not. Who cares if its a minor update. The fact is, the distribution chains of the data thieves, the pirates, the "underground", are more complete than legitimate commercial enterprises. Pirate networks can provide the product you want, when the company you PAY cannot.

Re:

[SpzToid (869795)]

The fact that pirate networks are more often than not, the easiest way to get what you need, whether you are a paying customer or not.

Easy, sure. But secure?

Well um, I suppose we could run around and find checksums to compare or something, in order to ascertain nothing has been pre-hacked for us in-advance. (Or run linux on the desktop, of course)

Re:Another Slashdot "Tempest in Teapot" MS-FUD

[SirKron (112214)]

Those of us who have TechNet Plus subscriptions also get lots of licenses (i.e. install keys) to run the various Microsoft products, not just download the software. Also, I have been running SP1 RTM since last week, and I downloaded it from Windows Update. Those who participate in the Betas (the connect site) get the ability to test SP1 RTM early. If you want that ability, then participate in the Betas.

It's obvious

[Alexx K (1167919)]

MS doesn't want people giving SP1 bad reviews before it is released to the general public. That would damage Vista's reputation even more, and Microsoft most certainly doesn't want that.

Eh?

[gnutoo (1154137)]

The bad reviews are already out so what is left to gain? Distributing SP1 to developers will confirm the reviews but they are the type that has read about it anyway. Keeping it will not prove the reviews wrong but it will irritate developers who expect things to be bad and expect that much more work before the public gets it.

Big Revolt.

[gnutoo (1154137)]

Are there more Vista developers than there are Vista users?

Cue demented inner dialog for Softies:

"Precious Software, Precious, Must HAVE!!!!"
"Master is bad for not letting me have. Must STEAL, must KILL!!!!"
"No, Master is gooooD. Master is looking out for pitiful consumers and me."
"But Precious, must have the PRECIOUS!!!"

and so on and so forth without clarity, self help or sense of reality.

Bah

[ushering05401 (1086795)]

My company is most likely in our last year of MSDN participation, but it has nothing to do with SP1.

The relationship between devs and MS has been deteriorating for some time. Off the top of my head I might point to the closing off of the IE development team from communication w/independents that occurred some time ago.

I am too jaded to sit here and detail all the problems that have been developing, so I will leave that to others. Needless to say it took quite some time before my partners were willing to consider looking away from MS as they have been developing with the Windows product line since 3.1.

developers, developers, developers

[Phantom Gremlin (161961)]

MSDN subscribers, please remember that MSFT really cares about you:

developers, developers, developers,
developers, developers, developers,
developers, developers, developers, ...

I love this company!

Steve

The Tabloid News For Nerds Which Is Slashdot

[westlake (615356)]

There is no story too trivial or misleading about Microsoft and Vista that won't make it to the front page of Slashdot.

Last Friday, the company released Vista SP1 for download by both individuals and companies who previously beta tested the service pack. This week, the company went further. "At the end of this week we will be making the English version of Windows Vista SP1 available to volume licensing customers ... Other languages will follow soon ... [and] later this month, SP1 will be available to MSDN

Re:The Tabloid News For Nerds Which Is Slashdot

[Yaur (1069446)]

The point of developers getting it first (through MSDN) is to make sure that any compatibility problems get resolved before your customers, who could very well be volume buyers, upgrade their systems. The article you cite seems to confirm that what developers are complaining about is in fact happening.

It also makes sense

[Sycraft-fu (314770)]

There always can be incompatibility problems. So you release it in the order of people who are most able to find and deal with those. The people who did beta testing should have no problem. If they were willing to run beta code, they are willing to deal with what comes with it. Volume customers are a next logical step. They presumably manage their updates and have a competent systems person so they can test and decide if a rollout is appropriate or if they need to wait for drivers/software to by updated. Th

Re:The Tabloid News For Nerds Which Is Slashdot

[rijrunner (263757)]

If you look at the timing of the original article, you'll find that it was posted on Friday. Basically, Microsoft caved in to pressure from that base. It was not something that was planned and the article is correct about the details when it was written. The link you provided is pointing to a timeframe after the first article was written.

Microsoft did not plan on releasing SP1 early to technet. The debate is accurately described and attributed. Microsoft's stance as described in the article is also accurate as of the time the article was written and posted. That Microsoft later reversed its position is something to be noted, but it is not "trivial or misleading" to post an *accurate* rundown of the argument which led to Microsoft's reversal. (Which had not even happened at the time the article was written).

Unless you can show that Microsoft had planned on an early release for this base, I think you might want to rethink your position. It was articles like the Computerworld article which led to the release, not any policy decision by Microsoft before there was a lot of backlash.

Here is the official announcement on the board that started the whole thing:

http://blogs.technet.com/technetplussubscriptions/archive/2008/02/04/technet-plus-sp1-availability-plan-of-record.aspx [technet.com]

"Now that we've made Windows Server 2008 available to all TechNet Plus subscribers there is a firestorm of questions about when will SP1 also be available for subscribers.

The current plan is that it will be available in mid-March, if that changes I'll let you know. In the meantime, please check out Mike Nash's blog post to learn more about SP1 and the timing of the availability.

Have Feedback? Leave a comment - I looking forward to hearing from you.

Thanks,

Kathy Dixon

TechNet Plus subscriptions"

It was not until the 11th - today - that a new policy was mentioned. Your own counterargument is based on a post made this morning - several days after the article you say is misleading was posted. How was the Computerworld article misleading? It was 100% accurate when written and anyone can follow the link provided in the article and verify that. How could they know that Microsoft was going to change their policy? It was a stupid policy and led to a backlash and that was the story. The story is now that Microsoft needed to be pressured to do what they should have done in the first place.

Business plan

[rice_burners_suck (243660)]

Business plan:
1. Make a new version that developers will have to support.
2. Send factory-cracked copies to all the pirates.
3. Wait for developers to resort to using the pirated copies.
4. Sue them!
5. Profit!

I can see why software makers are anxious

[Billly Gates (198444)]

SP1 caused numerous stability problems on my laptop and I prefer to skip this service pack. The drivers do not like the changes and yes they are compatibility problems. sp1 is not a magic bullet to fix Vista's i/o problems either unfortunately.

I feel sorry for the MS committed techies...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518)]

Maybe this is just a biased view(I certainly haven't seen it all); but it seems like the techies responsible for field work on MS stuff just have more pain and less fun than the *nix techies do. These guys are drinking, and paying for, the kool-aid and they can't even get a RTM copy ahead of the press flacks and pirates. Over in *nix land, you can play with pre-alpha or later any time you want. These are the people who advocate for, plan, install, and support MS's stuff on the corporate level. They are the people whose fairly cheap labor helps prop up all the TCO "get the facts" and MS won't even give them the release in time to help them do their jobs. This is not exactly "catch the devs on IRC channel foo on bar.org" territory.

I can understand why MS plays hard and mean on licensing, format lock-in, and the like. That is just good(if unpleasant) business. I don't understand this, though. It would cost them basically nothing to throw the people who eat their shit 9 to 5 a bone. And they don't. Why?

Re:I feel sorry for the MS committed techies...

[ricegf (1059658)]

If I had a mod point handy, I'd happily toss it your way. Reading your post, I had a sudden insight into why I went from a Microsoft enthusiast (back when Microsoft seemed anxious for me to use their stuff) to a Microsoft "highly unenthusiast" (now that they treat me like dirt, or worse).

Using Microsoft products just isn't fun anymore. It's like living in Apple's "1984" commercial, but without the girl. Using FOSS is still very much fun. It's like living in a GoDaddy commercial, but without the Fox censors.

Thanks, you're cheaper than a shrink. :-)

XP SP3

[wiredlogic (135348)]

I'm frustrated that XP SP3 hasn't been released yet. That's what we really need.

More Anti-MS Crap...

[Captain Original (922169)]

You know, I generally enjoy /. However, every so often one of these stories comes up (it seems to be more frequently these days) that is just complete bullshit (Disclosure: I've been an MSDN subscriber for years). I don't know anyone who is complaining about SP availability. There will always be some who complain, but that's more than likely a very small minority. For those testing compatibility, the betas and RCs have been out for quite a while for the sole purpose of testing applications. I haven't worked with them personally, but a conservative guess would be 95% of functionality can be testing on the RCs. What gets me though is that over the weekend a much more impactful event occurred: the Windows 2008 RTM. Not only that, but Windows 2008 IS available on MSDN (all English flavors at least, and most likely TechNet as well, but I don't know for sure). Windows 2008 is a much more important release than SP 1, but, alas, that gets no coverage on /.

Reminds of Vista in the Action Pack (MAPS)

[LoadWB (592248)]

In the Action Pack, we only received Vista Business, but we could upgrade it to Ultimate for $150.

Now to obtain (or retain) the Action Pack you have to take online assessments. I have had my Action Pack for several years now, and I felt rather insulted.

You see, Microsoft is fighting terror^H^H^H^H^H^H piracy by forcing these assessments on Action Pack subscribers. This move is intended to "keep the Action Pack out of the hands of people who shouldn't have it." In other words, people who pay $300 per year and let their friends use five licenses of Office and Windows XP. But what Microsoft does not understand is that making MAPS more difficult to obtain just increases the likelihood that the software will be pirated.

I am really too busy installing its software in Virtual PC or on a real workstation, testing, and learning how to use the software so I can sell to and support my customers. Too busy to read all the marketing horse shit they shove down my throat. Let me tell you how sick and damned tired I was of reading their Truth About Linux (or whatever the hell it was called) materials. I was done with that after the first brochure.

But overall, Microsoft is just pushing us away: the system builders, the techs, the developers. We all slaved away to get Microsoft where it is today, and it needs us no more.

Wanna hear something really stupid? How about that a system builder is not allowed to give a customer a copy of the OEM installation CD of Office 2007. Nope. We are supposed to provide the customer with a way of restoring the installation. Microsoft's recommendation: Ghost, or something similar. What? So if my customer's Office 2007 installation blows up and has to be reinstalled, they get to lose ALL of their data in favor of a Ghost restore.

More hoops. Maybe this is what they want all along, but with the exception of Windows XP and Vista, I no longer sell OEM software with my machines. Server 2003? Retail. Office 2007? Retail. Why? Because it is less of a heartache and wallet-ache when the times comes.

Need to upgrade your server hardware? Copy the installation to a new machine? Bzzzt! Nope, technically the SBS 2003 install and 75 CALs are locked to the original hardware.

Bought Office 2003 Basic Edition and want to upgrade to Professional? Just install the Professional upgrade? Bzzzt! Sorry, this just isn't your day. Basic Edition, as an OEM only edition, does not qualify for the upgrade to Office Professional. However, every version of Office back to 95, even the Works Suites, DO qualify.

Wowsers. Really, Microsoft does not need us anymore. Really. If I wanted to screw your sister I would become your best pal. But now I am screwing your sister I no longer need you as a friend, so piss off.

But it will be available this month!

[freitasm (444970)]

Interesting that this post showed up on /. after Microsoft news that Windows Vista SP1 is now avaialble to beta testers, volume license users and will be available mid-February to MSDN and Technet subscribers. More information here [geekzone.co.nz].

FUD.

Vista SP1 available later this month

[llzackll (68018)]

Looks like microsoft changed their mind after all the feedback:

http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2008/02/11/windows-vista-sp1-availability-for-technical-customers.aspx [windowsvistablog.com]

Re:iTunes

[DigitlDud (443365)]

Given Apple's history of poor Windows software and the convoluted implementation of iTunes on Windows, I'd say its the other way around.

Vista isn't done until iTunes doesn't run?

[EmbeddedJanitor (597831)]

Deja vu?
"DOS isn't done until Lotus doesn't run."

Re:iTunes

[TheNetAvenger (624455)]

Wow Apple software not running properly on a Windows OS, say it isn't so...

Apple's software development for Windows is like a Toyota dealer fixing your Ferrari. It took Apple 10 years to get a QuickTime installer for WIndows that didn't try to lock the UI, because that is how they always did it on Macs, even though Windows users hadn't seen it since the Win3.1 days.

At least when MS develops Apple software, they get real Mac user and real developers and products like Office are some of the most polished applications for Macs. Apple could at least hire a team of 10 people that use or 'get' Windows at the very least, instead of this cross platform inferior designed crap that barely runs.

Parent speaks the truth

[i.of.the.storm (907783)]

Seriously, I downloaded the Safari for Windows beta thing to use as a KHTML test platform for web development but was immediately turned off by the OS X window stylings and behaviors, as well as the extra font smoothing that went beyond the built in smoothing to make everything look really blurry and ugly. From what I've seen, iTunes on Windows is the same way although I have never installed that piece of junk on my computer. In contrast, whenever I've used Office for Mac at school it acts just like any other Mac application, and sometimes I even preferred it over the Windows version. Now, I'm going to conjecture wildly and say it's Apple's arrogance that causes it to completely disregard all Windows GUI conventions. Most of my dislike of Apple stems from this arrogant vibe that everything should be done either their way or not at all.

Re:Bow to the closed source distrobution model!

[jlarocco (851450)]

Why bother?

Didn't you read the summary? Nobody's talking about switching to a better OS. They're switching to pirated Windows. That means they'll still be writing software that draws people to Windows, and they'll be opening themselves up to lawsuits.

It's sheer genius on Microsoft's part. They save money by not packaging the SP with MSDN, they have developers wooing users to their OS, and they get to sue the developers for way more than a regular license fee or MSDN price.

Re:

[Cal Paterson (881180)]

It's sheer genius on Microsoft's part. They save money by not packaging the SP with MSDN, they have developers wooing users to their OS, and they get to sue the developers for way more than a regular license fee or MSDN price.

I know you're trying to sound clever and smart and in-the-know and so on, but I am dubious that Microsoft have decided to withhold a beta from the public to make a business decision of suing developers. Maybe I'm just being absurd with probabilities here, but perhaps it is more likel

Re:

[The MAZZTer (911996)]

Ir hasn't been legitimately released to the public. It's more of a leak than pirating, I suppose.

Re:

[d3matt (864260)]

I saved that file to a CD and all that happens when I load it up is that explorer comes up with 1 file on the CD.

Re:

[bone_idol (782109)]

He means this Windows Vista SP1 [goodbye-microsoft.com] instead

Really?

[Sycraft-fu (314770)]

Well since it seems to have support for about 5% of my apps and about 75% of my hardware, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.

Please cut the crap with the "Just replace Windows with Linux it's better!" thing. This kind of crap will actually hurt Linux adoption overall. Linux is an alternative to Windows that is viable for some people, however it isn't a drop in replacement. If you market it as such, people are going to be pissed when they find out you are lying. Using Linux involves tradeoffs. Now that can be ok for many people, however you need to be up front about them and let people make their own choice. To try and pretend that it is just like Windows but better is rather dishonest, and counterproductive.

Re:Really?

[by Anonymous Coward]

Well since it seems to have support for about 5% of my apps and about 75% of my hardware, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.

Are you talking about Vista or Linux? :)

Re:

[alexhs (877055)]

Well since it seems to have support for about 5% of my apps and about 75% of my hardware, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.

Are you talking about Vista or Linux? :)

Linux. Vista seems to have support for about 75% of his apps and about 5% of his hardware.

Re:Really?

[Sycraft-fu (314770)]

Yes I've tried it. Well more accurately I had our Linux guru at work help me try to get things running and even after considerable effort, he couldn't. Apps wise the biggest problems are the pro audio/video apps. Cakewalk Sonar just doesn't run seem to work, and our Linux guy said that his searches lead him to believe that it just can't be done. Of course even if it is made to work, then the samplers have to work with it, or it isn't useful. These are plugins for it (and other audio apps). They are a real sticking point since the samples are in their own format and can't be loaded by other apps, so they have to be installed. On the work side, Sony Vegas doesn't seem to be able to be made to work.

The other big issue at home is games. I am a PC gamer, my favourite titles come out on PC and I play lots. All of them work in Windows. While some may be able to made to work in Linux, not all can, and I've found that they are often rather loose with their definition of "work". For me a working game would be one I could play all the way through with everything working and maybe some minor glitches. For them it often seems to be so long as it'll load and get in game that's working, regardless of playability.

Really what it comes down to is that everything I want runs in Windows. I can't think of a single app that I want to use that doesn't have a Windows version. That's not the case for Linux. So why would I want to move to something that causes me more trouble? What is the gain? I can appreciate evaluating tradeoffs, but for my home desktop especially, and even for work, it seems to be all negative almost no positive. I can't find anything I'd gain other than more Linux knowledge (by virtue of using it regularly) and there's a big list of what I'd have to give up or compromise on. As such it just isn't a good trade that I can tell.

Re:

[dissy (172727)]

Tell me again, what was it that you depend on that only runs on windows?

The main thing people will complain about is games.
Windows these days is not an OS so much as a Gaming Platform.

Telling one of these users to switch to linux is like telling a xbox360 owner to go out and buy a wii so he can play all his 360 games better.

Re:

[DigiShaman (671371)]

Politics, it's as simple as that.

My guess someone (or group) had enough "pull" in the organization to take over the Vista project management. In the end, you had a bunch of suits making all sorts of requests that were leading the original development path down a wrong way. Let's face it; Microsoft has all the money in the world to higher some of the best minds around. Same goes for Google. I simple can't imagine the problems with Vista was a technical issue to start with.

Anyone else notice how quite things

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

MSDN and Technet should also have access to it now as well today

"Should" being the operative word, which is what people are complaining about. It isn't there. I checked both MSDN and Technet today just in case. Apparently, you didn't.

Good job supporting the opinion you intended to criticize. I honestly couldn't have done better.