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Net Neutrality Blasted by MPAA Bosses

Posted by Zonk on Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:23 AM
from the nothing-good-about-that-statement dept.
proudhawk writes "The LA Times is reporting that the MPAA's Dan Glickman has taken another swipe against net neutrality at his recent ShoWest appearance. 'Glickman argued in his speech that neutrality regulations would bar the use of emerging tools that ISPs can use to prevent piracy. That's what some studio lobbyists have been telling lawmakers, too, in their efforts to derail neutrality legislation. And depending on how the regulations are written, they could be right.'"
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  • FUD begets FUD (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Meor (711208) on Thursday March 13 2008, @10:26AM (#22739560)
    Both sides of this story are lying about their intentions. Extra regulation will not make the net more neutral. Only removing the tools of power used by governments to regulate the internet at all, will make it neutral.
    • Re:FUD begets FUD (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MightyMartian (840721) on Thursday March 13 2008, @10:32AM (#22739626) Journal
      Ah yes, so that when Comcast cuts a deal with Yahoo and slows your connection down to 56k, and they're the only high speed provider in your area, you'll feel so much better that the government isn't attempting to protect consumers.

      • by inTheLoo (1255256) on Thursday March 13 2008, @10:56AM (#22739898) Journal

        It's funny how companies that benefit from past and present public servitude and spectrum exclusive franchises only complain about regulation that requires them to live up to obligations they accepted to gain advantages. Ask them about open spectrum and public servitude and you will see some interesting changes in skin tone.

        The MPAA, of course, is an enemy of all kinds of freedom. They enjoy government protection in the form of patents, copyright and cable regulations. Exclusivity is not about the promotion of excellence, as anyone can see by watching the high grossing films of last year's best year ever for the MPAA, it's about locking others out. Network and software freedom will destroy their ability to lock competition out. Cost of production has vastly declined in the last 20 years. You have to ask yourself why there's only one or two film companies begging for yet more government protection.

        • Finally, someone who's thought this through.

          I'm thinking remove their incumbent advantage instead of adding another layer. Open them up to free market forces. Land, mineral right, and time, all pseudo tangible ownership objects are traded on the free market and do just fine. EM spectrum and cabling can be done the same.
        • by sm62704 (957197) on Thursday March 13 2008, @11:00AM (#22739928) Journal
          Show me the locality where that is happening.

          Comcast is a monopoly here in Springfield. Cable companies are monopolies about everywhere. Get some competetion and the market can take care of itself, but monopolies must be regulated to prevent them from running roughshod over the people who need the services only they can (and in most cases, their monopoly is protected by law) provide.

          Show me the trend to decreased bandwidth.

          Comcast Sued Again over P2P Throttling [slashdot.org]

            • by tepples (727027) <slash2006@@@pineight...com> on Thursday March 13 2008, @11:12AM (#22740092) Homepage Journal

              "Municipalities" "Regulate" cable layers and create all these other broad-sweeping ancillary problems.

              You're right though, remove the regulation, remove the monopoly.
              Remove the regulation that allows for easements for public utilities, and providers won't be able to pull their wires over or under non-subscribers' land.
            • Monopolies are created by regulation.

              How can you not see the exceptions to this? Are you seriously claiming Microsoft was created by regulation?

              Cell phone monopolies were created by a 2 provider per area limit back in the day which was facilitated by the government regulating all EM spectrum.

              If you think we would even have functional cell service without that regulation, you're deluded. What's to stop one cell company from "accidentally" causing massive interference for a competitor's network? Do you rea

            • "They could be right"
              What? Of course they're right- net neutrality legislation is made to protect peer-to-peer traffic.
        • by gnutoo (1154137) on Thursday March 13 2008, @11:14AM (#22740122) Journal

          You must have slept through the whole P2P block attack and congressional response. Bandwith is worthless if it can't be used the way you want.

          The Collaps of At Home and DSL providers that has lead to the sad current state also saw a decrease in bandwith. The entertainment and telco dominated companies immediately established caps and port blocks.

          That pushes the trend you are looking for back about nine years. In that time you have gotten some very minor improvements that far outweigh the restrictions put in place. The US has sank to 26th place in the world for network availability and international watchdogs rate the US as a chronic surveillance state.

          "Light regulation" has provided the worst of all worlds. Both real regulation and real freedom would have provided fiber to the house by now, as it has elsewhere. Fake regulation has given you fake bandwith that mostly works to put money into MAFIAA pockets. Look for fake regulations to give you all of the freedom of broadcast TV in the near future.

        • I do not believe the throttling issue will effect the end users from a budget standpoint. I believe what they are trying to do is charge the content providers (google for example) a higher rate then they would say a partner like yahoo, and in that case when the end user goes to yahoo, the link will be fast and unimpeded, but when the end user goes to google who refuses to be extorted, the link will drop in speed to modem rates...

          Thats what I think they are trying to do.

          My opinion on the matter, let the ISP
        • What liberty is lost by forcing monopolies to behave? Be specific here.
            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              "f you show me a single instance of u.s. government action against a monopoly that had any meaningful effect"

              Never heard of Ma Bell and the phone monopoly they used to have? That's right, the entire US used to have only 1 phone company. Your choice was use them, or don't have a phone.
              Hell in the old days, you couldn't even OWN your own phone - they were all considered "rentals" from the phone company.
        • Re:FUD begets FUD (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Pojut (1027544) on Thursday March 13 2008, @11:36AM (#22740382) Homepage
          We aren't trying to grant the government to be responsible for protecting us...we are trying to get the government to bitch-slap misbehaving monopolies because we as individual citizens don't have the money or the realistic possibility of legal avenues to make the changes ourselves.

          I'm all for keeping the government out of our daily lives, but there are instances where government intervention is necessary. Or do you have millions of dollars, top-notch lawyers, and the legal ability at your disposal to slap the likes of Comcast in the face hard enough that they stop bullying everyone else on the playground?
    • Re:FUD begets FUD (Score:4, Insightful)

      by PopeRatzo (965947) * on Thursday March 13 2008, @12:15PM (#22740860) Homepage Journal

      Only removing the tools of power used by governments to regulate the internet at all, will make it neutral.
      The idea of our government is that it's of, by and for the people. Removing the power of government to regulate the internet is giving away our own power to make sure the internet serves us instead of the other way around.

      I'm ashamed to see so many otherwise bright and technologically sophisticated people so misguided on this issue of Net Neutrality. We've got a small window of opportunity to save the internet as a tool of social benefit instead of just another shopping mall. Unless some effort is made to separate the hardware and structure of the internet from the content of the internet, we will lose everything that's so valuable and special about the internet.

      We are currently seeing the social benefits of having a public medium for information that is not filtered by the Princes of Commerce. Believe me, those same Princes are desperate to destroy that public medium as fast as possible, because it threatens their hegemony.

      Please, if you don't see the importance of Net Neutrality right now, take a little time and look the matter over again. Once a free (as in speech) and open (as in doors) internet is gone, there will be no getting it back. In fact, it's only by accident that we ever had a free internet to begin with, and the rich and powerful are scrambling to lock it down ASAP.
  • Corrupt organisation seeks to further own aims.

    Film at 11.

    • by Z00L00K (682162) on Thursday March 13 2008, @11:07AM (#22740008) Homepage
      This problem of the movie industry trying to stop the evolution of new technology has been occurring not only during the internet age. The advent of home-recordings was one, the television another. They seem to forget that they can't succeed by rejecting new technology - they must embrace it and not try to inject peculiar provisions.

      At the moment the MPAA, RIAA and similar organizations are alienating themselves from their customer base, which just means that the potential customers will continue to select different sources just to keep away from them.

  • The studios stand to make a lot of money selling streaming content through certain ISP portals rather than leaving it to the internet to find the most efficient way to distribute it without the MPAA anywhere in the picture.

    Pandora's lid is already off the box, the studios just want to make a couple bucks at the spigot while they still can.
  • by athloi (1075845) on Thursday March 13 2008, @10:29AM (#22739590) Homepage Journal
    DRM has failed because it annoyed publishers as much as pirates, if not more.

    The RIAA and cohorts now change strategy: make massive amounts of bandwidth expensive.

    They're trying to take out the mules for software groups, who spread around the warez, and the people who hoard and distribute music and movies.

    This is more likely to succeed. Although most Slashdot readers know how bad connectivity options are in the USA, very few people who limit themselves to YouTube and e-mail have any idea.

    They won't notice if they get low bandwidth caps, but they'll shriek when their kids run up the bill for $500 of overage.

    And of course, a bill that large warrants an investigation by the ISP.
    • by _KiTA_ (241027) on Thursday March 13 2008, @11:14AM (#22740110) Homepage

      The RIAA and cohorts now change strategy: make massive amounts of bandwidth expensive.

      They're trying to take out the mules for software groups, who spread around the warez, and the people who hoard and distribute music and movies.


      And as a free bonus, it means that only THEY will be able to afford to do the digital music thing. Bye bye Indy Digital Music Labels, bye bye Indy Internet Radio, bye bye Radiohead-style "Download it and pay us directly what you want", etc.

      Brilliant. Dirty as all getout, but brilliant.
      • by zappepcs (820751) on Thursday March 13 2008, @11:39AM (#22740420) Journal
        You have it exactly right. It's about money, not fairness, or legality. Legality changes when they can pay enough legislators to make their business model look fair and legal.

        Glickman, the **AA, and any of their illk has a conflict of interest when they talk about net neutrality and filtering. He has only greed for motivation, not doing things right or even fair.

        When he starts talking about how to get EVERYONE higher bandwidth AND better Internet experiences without filters or DRM... then and ONLY then are they worth listening to. They are not trying to help anyone but themselves, and perhaps that is how it should be, but we need to make sure that our legislators do NOT believe that he speaks for the average user, ISP, or Internet based business.

        The guy dressed like jesus on 49th street wearing a sandwich board declaring the end is near can be spotted by anyone as a crank. Glickman is a different kind of crank and the writing on his sandwich board promises huge sums to those who would enact laws in his favor, not just eternal bliss in the afterlife.

        The way I feel about it, every municipality should operate their own WAN/infrastructure and sell access on it to cable companies and ISPs so that even little guys can compete. The monopolies granted to large corporations in various areas are completely hobbling the fight for net neutrality. When they no longer have an infrastructure to claim as their problem, they cease to have any say. yes, I know this idea is fraught with problems, but leaving the infrastructure in the hands of monopolists (successful ones or not) is the way to net non-neutrality. The **AA are trying to hold on to their choke hold of distribution and cable companies currently have a choke hold on broadband distribution. When infrastructure ownership is neutral, so will the net be.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      This is why I'd love to see us make inroads on cheap, easy to use wireless mesh routers. A bunch of them in a municipality could automatically mesh together. In theory, enough of them could create a network large enough that they wouldn't even need to tie into the Internet -- they'd have become their own network.

      The difficulties of such a mesh are mind-boggling, of course. I'm sure getting an efficient routing system down would be a total nightmare. With a decentralized system like that, I don't know ho
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        This is why I'd love to see us make inroads on cheap, easy to use wireless mesh routers. ... The difficulties of such a mesh are mind-boggling, of course. ... It's definitely a utopian libertarian dream, but it is one that has always fascinated me.

        Funny, but it's not just utopian libertarians with such dreams. If you dig up the docs from the earliest days of the ARPAnet, back in the 1960s, you'll find that the US Dept of Defense had exactly the same dream. Except theirs was a battle field scenario, with
  • "neutrality regulations would bar the use of emerging tools that ISPs can use to prevent piracy"
    Seems like he's missing the point. Glickman would be all for neutrality when some of the movie websites would be blocked by certain governments or schools or such institutions all because of the 'emerging tools' that ISPs would've implemented.
  • Sounds to me like the * Ass. of A. are looking for new partnerships. They toss something to the ISPs in exchange for support for whatever measures the Ass. is interested in getting passed. I guess we'll see a lot more of the same in the coming months -- it'll be interesting which ISPs will they be talking too and how far it goes.
  • by esocid (946821) on Thursday March 13 2008, @10:36AM (#22739674) Journal
    They're against net neutrality because it doesn't give them an advantage. In the current way, they are the top dogs who get to control when and where you see a product and how much you pay for it. Under the neutrality rules they are no longer the gate-keepers per se, but have to compete with other factions that can offer more available and cheaper "products." They're using this argument because they want to tighten the strangle hold that they have, and possibly make ties with the ISPs who would control the tubes without any sort of neutrality rules. This is just another example of them treading water in an area that they can't control, yet still whine about this imaginary loss of revenue. Go to hell MAFIAA.
    • by NeutronCowboy (896098) on Thursday March 13 2008, @10:40AM (#22739722)
      Yup. The internet provided the entertainment distributors with its worst nightmare: a cheap channel where everyone can be a distributor. The RIAA/MPAA wants to return to the good old days of one-directional pipes. A smart network is the first requirement for this. Everything else is secondary. I hope the current organizations die out before they can push this through.
  • by AaxelB (1034884) on Thursday March 13 2008, @10:39AM (#22739712)
    I read that as:

    'Glickman argued in his speech that neutrality regulations would bar the use of emerging tools that ISPs can use to prevent privacy'
    I was somewhat impressed how they were coming right out and saying it! But no, just more bullshit.
    • by TheMeuge (645043) on Thursday March 13 2008, @11:01AM (#22739936) Homepage
      It's no more a job of the ISP to prevent piracy, than it is the job of highway builders/maintainers to make sure that their road isn't used to ship stolen goods.

      P.S. If I get modded down for using the word "stolen" as a part of my analogy, I will join the other side.
    • Haha, I read it the same way. The misreading really highlights the real point of the argument.
  • The MPAA & RIAA would support net neutrality if:
    1. Each ISP pays them $5000 per month for each album they see transferred across their lines (in either torrent, iTunes, or any other legal format).
    2. MPAA & RIAA get to monitor the pipelines and send the ISPs bill (Much like AT&T Vaccum Cleaner).
    Then you would see a sudden change of stone-cold hearts of these bitches to support neutrality since this gives them an edge over what consumers can see and hear.
      • Somewhere in CONNECTICUT a village is getting back its idiot in 2009. God save it.
        What the fuck does that mean?
        Who's from CT in first place? Obama? Lieberman?
        • George W. Bush, actually.

          Though its somewhat of a technicality, because he was moved to Texas at age 2 and spent most of his formative years there.

  • ...is "waaaah... we won't be able to get the ISPs to do what we want!" Is there ANY other utility industry where a third party can inflict rule over the utility for the good of the third party? Gas? Electric? Water? An ISPs job should be to supply the Internet... thats it and thats all. It should NOT be a gatekeeper where, in the interest of other parties, things are or are not filtered. If the MPAA gets their way, I want all ISPs to filter my social networking and blog sites except for the people that I d
    • I've always thought it should be treated like phone service. How would people feel if the phone company or some other organization listened in on their phone calls, much less degrading the quality if they didn't like what you were talking about. A government organization with proper warrants should be able to do it but that's about it.
  • Steve Jobs is successful where the RIAA wasn't because he learned how to compete with free with better instead of with whining. Another argument against neutrality is that you can't pay to have ISPs allocate more bandwidth for your torrent service.
  • by Doc Ruby (173196) on Thursday March 13 2008, @10:46AM (#22739796) Homepage Journal
    If the crooked abusers of both networks and the law are demanding Net Blackmail be allowed to further their enterprise, they are evidence that we need Net Neutrality to protect us from invading our privacy and hijacking our free speech.
  • Look, I realize that some of the traffic on the internet is actually illegal copies of their stuff. However, it's not my traffic, and it isn't the majority of people's traffic.

    But, some of the traffic on the roads is probably carrying illegal drugs and what have you. In the real world, we wouldn't accept widespread intrusive checking of the contents of our vehicles to try to stop that kind of stuff. I see no reason why we should accept it online.

    The MPAA/RIAA expect the entire world to adapt their infrastructure to police their interests -- it doesn't work that way.

    Hopefully, before long someone will firmly remind ISPs that if they want common carrier status to remain in effect, they must act like they're a transport mechanism. You're either safely responsible for none of it, or you're responsible for policing all of it.

    Sadly, I fear they may get what they want because the lawmakers are far too beholden to the lobbyists and don't understand the actual issues surrounding technology.

    Cheers
  • by sm62704 (957197) on Thursday March 13 2008, @10:54AM (#22739868) Journal
    bar the use of emerging tools that ISPs can use to prevent piracy

    It's not the ISP's job to prevent copyright infringement, nor should it be.
  • by Chabil Ha' (875116) on Thursday March 13 2008, @10:56AM (#22739890)
    What we have here is an organization that is losing in the distribution game. It used to be that casual piracy wasn't a big deal because it was inconvenient to try and copy a VHS tape. Now, it is super easy to duplicate *and* distribute it over the net.

    So, instead of changing their business model where they can return the distribution power back their way *by adapting*, they're trying to inhibit or restrict the convenience of a high speed network. When are these people going to get a clue?

    In the book Good To Great [amazon.com], Jim Collins points out one of the fundamental things that great companies have to do: the have to have the courage to face reality. The longer they ignore it, the more difficult it will be for them to turn things around. Some may say it's too late (I disagree), but they need a real culture change to transform.
  • people who don't play fair don't like rules about fairness and equality?

    i can't believe it

  • USPS (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JCSoRocks (1142053) on Thursday March 13 2008, @10:58AM (#22739914)
    While we're at it, maybe we should make changes to the US Postal Service as well. I bet there are all kinds of shady documents, products, letters, checks, etc sent through the mail everyday. I mean, friends could be sending each other burned CDs or DVDs!!! USPS should read everything sent by everyone - just in case!
    • Don't you realize this is why the USPS is so slow? They're just limiting the bandwidth of your mail. Too much and the truck would break down, so they have to intentionally "drop some of those packets" at the local office. - Tim
  • by jollyreaper (513215) on Thursday March 13 2008, @11:12AM (#22740068)
    If these guys are going to fuck with our internet and our culture, let's start fucking back. Which porn sites are they signed up on, preferred escort services, dealers, pimps, etc. Turn over their biggest rocks and expose the filth and muck to the light of day. Let the story change from "Why we need to destroy the net" to "Gee, honey, I didn't mean for you to find out about that tranny fetish of mine."
  • Net neutrality all comes down to this question:

    Are carriers allowed to treat packets differently without the explicit direction of their own users?

    A neutral network quite obviously cannot be used to enforce the will of some third party against the will of the network's users, so yes, it does explicitly prohibit ISPs from doing the MPAAs dirty work. That is what it is supposed to do.

    (Buying a faster/slower/cheaper/more expensive/whatever service is explicit direction from you to the ISP to treat packets diff
  • by MrSteveSD (801820) on Thursday March 13 2008, @01:26PM (#22741866)
    He is against net neutrality. Both Clinton and Obama are for it, although I suppose they are quite capable of doing a 360 on that. I found this helpful Matrix [2decide.com] of their policies.
    • by ajs (35943) <ajs AT ajs DOT com> on Thursday March 13 2008, @10:31AM (#22739612) Homepage Journal
      It won't matter. If Obama wins the democratic nomination, then both presidential candidates will be pro-net-neutrality. There just isn't a popular platform for "yes, let's cripple the Internet so that corporations can profit more," and for once politicians have realized it.

      • by Tetsujin (103070) on Thursday March 13 2008, @11:09AM (#22740028) Homepage Journal

        It won't matter. If Obama wins the democratic nomination, then both presidential candidates will be pro-net-neutrality. There just isn't a popular platform for "yes, let's cripple the Internet so that corporations can profit more," and for once politicians have realized it.
        Well, over the years presidential candidates have learned a few interesting tricks. For instance, a candidate could potentially say they're going to do something, and then, once elected, do something else. Or, they could actually say what they're going to do, but say it in such a way that people don't catch on that it's not what they want. For instance, consider the following possible statement. The figures in it are fictitious, of course...

        "Presently there's a conflict going on with regard to how the internet is managed. Service providers are overwhelmed with the level of traffic they receive, and over 80% of that traffic is being generated by less than 20% of their clients. This results in slower connections for the rest of their clients. I support legislation that would allow these providers to manage their services in such a way as to ensure a good experience for all their clients."

        That's the trick - not everybody is a filesharer, and not everybody has actually started using the internet in a way that demands the full speed of their connection. Appeal to the clueless majority - tell them that filesharing results in them getting lower speeds (never mind the fact that it's their service provider's responsibility to provide the speed they've promised, or the fact that many of these users aren't likely to notice the difference anyway) and... voila. Public support for throwing a bone to ISPs.
      • It won't matter. If Obama wins the democratic nomination, then both presidential candidates will be pro-net-neutrality. There just isn't a popular platform for "yes, let's cripple the Internet so that corporations can profit more," and for once politicians have realized it.

        As reported right here on slashdot [slashdot.org], John McCain does not support net neutrality. In case you hadn't noticed, there was a pretty big flap a couple weeks ago over a New York Times story reporting on McCain doing favors for telecom lobb
        • While the parent is modded as troll, he is correct in one aspect, no matter who wins, they always follow the money, period, no questions asked.

          Look at every election in the past (I have not, but I am pretty sure there is a trend going), how many presidents have followed through with any of their campaign promises, I would hazard to guess... not a single one. Politicians all spout the I work for the people blah blah blah.. but what they really mean is they give major tax breaks to corporations in their dist