Unique Broadband Over Powerline Project Planned For Mosques

Lucas123 writes "Broadband over powerline (BPL) provider Velchip is heading up a project that will offer 60 million very unique network users an unlimited high speed Internet connection of 224Mbps at a cost of only around RM5 ($1.58) per user per month. That's the cheapest, fastest internet connection in the world. The network is slated for use in the $14 billion 'Smart Mosque' project, which will be rolled out over three years in Indonesia and will link together 400,000 mosques. To add some perspective, in the US Verizon FiOS currently offers up to 30 Mbps downloads and 5 Mbps uploads starting at $42.99 a month. BPL modems use existing electrical power lines to deliver high speed Internet access and data transmission."

Unlimited?

[by Anonymous Coward]

I think you'll need Allah's help for that.

Re:Unlimited?

[catwh0re (540371)]

A fast connection to your ISP, doesn't mean you'll have a fast Internet experience.

While this will no doubt allow the ISP to deliver cache/proxy data very quickly, it will not be financially viable to provide very fast live-internet down this pipe. E.g anything that can be classified as a web-application will probably still be quite average/slow speeds.

The price comes about from using an existing infrastructure, as you know the biggest cost in rolling out a network is the transmission medium. (Especially if it's not your expense to maintain it.)

I'd be *delighted* to get close to max speed. . .

[JSBiff (87824)]

out of my current Internet connection. I don't get these broadband p!ssing contests. Such and such a country leads/trails the world in broadband connection speeds blah blah.

As the parent said, a fast connection to your ISP is relatively meaningless. I currently have TimeWarner RoadRunner cable. I can't complain about it *too* much. Overall it provides a pretty decent internet experience.

But, I know that the maximum download speed I ever got was somewhere around 6000 kbps (downloading a tv show from Amazon.c

Re:

[1001011010110101 (305349)]

I was thinking about that...they are going to need some humongous peering points to get that kind of traffic into the rest of the world.

Re:Unlimited?

[Stellian (673475)]

That of course if Allah has nothing against millions of believers downloading porn on bittorrent at super-high speeds.

Excuse me... Excuse me...

[denzacar (181829)]

I just wanted to ask a question. What does God need with a internet connection?

Re:

[memorycardfull (1187485)]

The story says that the connections are expected to to enhance economic growth and internet literacy, which makes sense to me. It makes me uneasy to hear insinuations from presumably intelligent people that a developing and/or Muslim nation has little need for broadband except as a weapon. The story about ambition to use the internet as a weapon is over here: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/02/1734212 [slashdot.org]

Re:

[Dan541 (1032000)]

That's what happens when morons get mod point!

I expect this post will also be modded down by a moron mod!

Whoa there Nelly!

[Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289)]

That's the cheapest, fastest internet connection in the world.

No. It's not the fastet, because it doesn't exist.

To add some perspective, in the states Verizon FiOS currently offers up to 30 Mbps downloads and 5 Mbps uploads starting at $42.99 a month.

Yes, they do. Right now. Who knows what Verizon will be offering when (if) these guys get this network going. Awesome. The US still has better internet access than much of the third world.

Re:

[uffe_nordholm (1187961)]

30Mb/s doesn't sound like much, if you're after the world record... A lady in Karlstad (Sweden) had her son install(*) something a bit faster: 40Gb/s. (article in Swedish: http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.153268 [www.idg.se]). Although she seems to have used this opportunity to do much more than dry her laundry. * I think the initiative came form the son, not the old lady.

Re:

[Niten (201835)]

I agree that we're well behind many parts of the world when it comes to fast Internet access. However, you can't take the single, well-publicized case of the Swedish lady with a 40 Gb/s connection on top of specialized networking gear, and extrapolate that to make any meaningful statements about the overall state of broadband availability in Sweden versus in the United States.

Re:

[beh (4759)]

Would you rather hear it from from the Wall Street Journal's principal tech columnist Walt Mossberg? (Listen to the first part of Mossberg's comments on the video: http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/05/mossberg-3g-iphone-in-60-days/ [macrumors.com] )

I also seem to remember something quite a while back here on slashdot about some annual internet usage survey, which also kind of highlighted that the US is leading the pack in technology, but that Europe/Far East are leading in technology adoption.

Having the 'might' of the US IT

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

The US still has better internet access than much of the third world.

You must be so proud.

Re:

[strength_of_10_men (967050)]

The US still has better internet access than much of the third world.

Comparing our internet access to third world countries is pathetic. Why don't we have better internet access than ALL of the third world, if not the best internet access, period?

Re:Whoa there Nelly!

[asuffield (111848)]

Why don't we have better internet access than ALL of the third world, if not the best internet access, period?

Because bad internet access is more profitable. If everybody had gigabit lines to their homes, it would be very hard to sell "faster" business lines to businesses at an inflated cost. By artificially limiting the low end of the market, they inflate the value of the high end, and hold the whole thing together by passing laws to block any competition. Isn't capitalism grand?

Third World?

[Lorien_the_first_one (1178397)]

Hardly a fair comparison. Japan vs. the US is a much better comparison. In some parts, they are offering 1Gbps. In most places, the average is 60 Mbs for about $35/mo.

Republicans have never been big on competition. Just ask their friends who helped to write the 1996 Telecommunications Act. That whole "Republican Revolution" was really a revolution for their *Republican* investor friends.

Bear Stearns will quietly tell you that Bush just wanted to bail his friends out. That's the free market for ya.

Until the market gets *really* free from the incumbents, we aren't going to see very high speeds on our internet connections. Here's a great link on the subject of how Bush and his friends let it happen:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/28/AR2007082801990_pf.html [washingtonpost.com]

Yes, Republicans like free markets, as long as its free for *Republican* investors to pillage, rape and burn.

So the next time you wonder why you're still using DSL at 1.5 Mbs, just ask Bush. At least he knows what a checkout scanner in s supermarket looks like. (Or does he?) Or you can go here: www.speedmatters.org

Enjoy.

Spec needs to be clearer

[kg261 (990379)]

Well it's not clear from the article if it's 224Mbps for all 60 million users. Also, the premises could have 224Mbps locally, but the end to end a fraction of that.

Re:

[edwardpickman (965122)]

Well it's not clear from the article if it's 224Mbps for all 60 million users. Also, the premises could have 224Mbps locally, but the end to end a fraction of that.

224Mps divided by 60 millions users? Aren't we talking telegraph speeds at that bit rate?

The news headline and article are bullshit.

[aliquis (678370)]

Why do they cound 400.000 mosques as 60 million users? If I have 10 people in my appartment do my Internet connection become much cheaper then? To me the price seems to be 1500 times more than what they say for each 224 mbps connection, which are 2370 $. Sure the dollar are falling but it's still expensive as hell, and it's neither of cheapest or fastest there is.

Just marketing bullshit.

Who cares if there are 1500 possible mosques visitors in each mosque?

Re:

[1001011010110101 (305349)]

Dude, its broadband via power lines, they are not counting the people that visits the mosque, They run some kind of server there that "powers" the rest of the people living around it or something.

Re:

[aliquis (678370)]

If that's the case when cool, except whenever some religous moron decide that whatever religion they have are wrong their Internet connection will be screwed. Connection reset by Jesus?

Thanks for the information.

Re:

[Goody (23843)]

Well it's not clear from the article if it's 224Mbps for all 60 million users. Also, the premises could have 224Mbps locally, but the end to end a fraction of that.

There's no known BPL Internet access network in the world that is delivering 224 Mbs to end users. The few systems in the US are delivering speeds in the 1 to 8 Mbs range.

fritz their brains with unshielded RF

[johnrpenner (40054)]

i sure hope they don't fritz their brains by exposing themselves to that much HARSHLY modulated unshielded RF energy...

Bad Idea

[ajs318 (655362)]

Broadband over power lines is an extraordinarily bad idea.

It might just about work in a country where there is no radio or TV broadcasting or mobile telephony to interfere with, and no panic about the effects of stray RF waves on the human body.

Re:

[faedle (114018)]

BPL typically uses frequencies much lower than where most TV broadcasting takes place, and is WAAAAY below the frequencies used by mobile phones.

As far as RF exposure goes, these are power lines. The power levels that BPL uses are way below the EMP emissions that are coming off the power lines as the result of.. oh, I don't know, maybe the fact that they are carrying alternating current oscillating at 50 or 60 Hertz?

Now, there is concern amongst users of HF and low-band VHF. Public safety, amateur, mariti

Re:

[O Blimey (1268410)]

BPL (Broadband over Power Lines) can actually be a brilliant idea.

There are 2 different concepts:
1) Using high voltage long distance lines
2) Using household voltage lines and distances

The first approach has been pretty much abandoned. The second is very much alive and competing fiercely with Wi-Fi.
There are 2 competing camps, one being HomePlug and the other using chips from a Spanish company, ES2.
I have conducted trials with HomePlug AV in a marina. The claim is 200Mbps but you won't even get

Could someone enlighten me?

[Paktu (1103861)]

Why would you need high speed internet at a mosque of all places? Who goes to a church, synagogue, temple, Scientology brainwashing center, etc. to access the Web?

Re:Could someone enlighten me?

[MichaelSmith (789609)]

Probably because the Mosque doubles as Town Hall and general purpose public building in many parts of Indonesia. I think this is a great way to enlighten people and broaden their experience of the world.

Re:

[Antique Geekmeister (740220)]

I'll be very curious about coupling the "Mesh" capability of the OLPC laptops to it. It could leapfrog a generation of poorer children to the 21st century of content and network access, all on Linux.

Re:Could someone enlighten me?

[monkaru (927718)]

In much of the world mosques, Buddhist temples and\or Catholic churches are the only places the locals can get a proper education. Ultra high speed internet could be extremely useful to them when divvied up among thousands of students and religious scholars.

BPL also trashes the airwaves

[Skuld-Chan (302449)]

Of course who cares about radio - thats so yesterday.

Re:

[trash eighty (457611)]

I've heard Indonesian radio, its probably a blessing

bpl is a hoax

[eggled (1135799)]

Any power engineer worth his salt knows the power lines can be modeled as an RLC network... creating losses. These have been optimized for low frequencies (50-60 Hz). Once you get above 1 kHz, your signal won't propogate more than 500 feet. 1MHz and you're lucky to get 50 feet. BPL doesn't actually use the copper line as a waveguide, but creates a rude radio transmitter in the GHz range, which can cause all kinds of trouble. The reason they're trying this abroad is that it's already been rejected outright in the US.

BPL is deploying in the U.S.

[colfer (619105)]

I live in the deplyment area in Virginia. Here is the U.S. map: http://www.bpl.coop/deploymentmap.php [bpl.coop] It is funded partly by the old Rural Electrificatio Agency of the 1930's! Its successor agency actually, in the Ag Dept. The problem of interfering with radio, especially ham readio, was supposedly fixed by "notching of" certain frequencies.

But... deployment here is three years behind schedule. Customers of two substations have it, but I don't know how well it is working. The company claims some equipment problem.
Rural users are really looking forward to this, if it works, or any alternative to satellite. The electrical co-op (non-profit utility, like a credit union compared to a bank, established in the 1930's) said the price would be $25/month. Satellite is $40 with terrible contracts and equipment costs. Not to mention gamers cannot live with the 0.7+ second lag.

There is no alternative in rural areas, where our cell service is marginal. Dialup with images off has been fun! More important than images off is selectively blocking Flash.

Deployment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_line_communication#Deployments [wikipedia.org] But see the next section, "Concluded Deployments" with a long list of place where BPL has been dismantled.

As for the tech. aspects, note you can run internet over a fence wire. :) I'll try to find the link.

Re:

[colfer (619105)]

Internet over barbed wire: http://slashdot.org/articles/02/01/03/2039218.shtml [slashdot.org]

Correction, the price here for BPL is $30/month.

Re:

[Goody (23843)]

What you're talking about is PLC which is the low frequency predecessor to BPL that is used for grid control functions. I think PLC goes up to about 500 khz. That technology is proven, works fairly well and doesn't interfere with radio spectrum. Many companies are using it for automatic meter reading systems (AMR), a market that BPL has been wanting to break into, though I believe hasn't due to overall costs. The original poster is essentially correct about the properties of powerlines not being suited

Ok so the worth of freedom to slashdot users

[OeLeWaPpErKe (412765)]

Is less than 200 mbit. Separation of religion and state is probably worth even less.

Great to know.

Note for the Slashdot Grammar Council

[lancejjj (924211)]

60 million very unique network users

I can make the argument that a particular network design is "very" unique, suggesting that the design has "many distinctive attributes". Many grammar weenies would vehemently disagree with me.

But I have a tough time understanding that there could be 60 million "very" unique network users. I'd suppose that they'd just be unique.

This is typical of what others are doing

[grandpa-geek (981017)]

The 10 Gb Ethernet standard has been out there for several years now. IEEE-USA has had a position statement for at least two or three years advocating implementation of gigabit speed, bidirectional, broadband technology in the US. Other countries are implementing this technology for reasons of competitiveness and because it is feasible with current technology. Note that the communications chips in newer PC's are gigabit capable.

We need to do this to avoid becoming a third world telecommunications country

BPL screws up shortwave radio

[PinchDuck (199974)]

The great thing about Amateur Radio is that it allows people to connect in far-flung places. In an area as large as the Malay Archipelago, I have to believe that good, clear radio contact would take precedence over a technology that has been tried and abandoned in several different areas. No one thinks about the HAM radio guys, until a disaster strikes. Then they are the first ones on the air, delivering status reports and relaying information about what is needed where.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/200 [usatoday.com]

Re:Indonesia?

[Kyokushi (1164377)]

The contractors are Malaysian--but yes, I hardly believe this will go on. Power lines in Indonesia are horrible, usually they black out whenever there's heavy storm for some reason. Nevermind that some people STEAL power lines and cables for money (how do they do that I have no frickin clue). Add the incompetency of bureucrats, and there you go. I don't know how does islamic organizations respond to this, and most importantly, who is going to pay for all of this. We got a huge national debt already, and not much people have a laptop--and those who do certainly don't bring them to mosques, where footwear got lost all the time.

Re:It'll never happen

[HateBreeder (656491)]

You might be surprised to learn that "square waves" aren't traveling as is on the lines... they are being modulated in a way that makes them less susceptible to noise, and span across a limited bandwidth... this has the side effect of making them look more like a finite combination of sine waves. Besides, copper telephone lines used for ADSL aren't shielded either.

Re:It'll never happen

[Goody (23843)]

Besides, copper telephone lines used for ADSL aren't shielded either.

Twisted pair copper is self-shielding; it's one of the reasons why we use it today in telephony instead of the old open straight wire.

Re:

[asuffield (111848)]

No, I do mean self-shielding; the fact that it is fed balanced is a given.

Okay, then you're just wrong. Telephone lines are neither; their loop system is almost like a balanced signal, but not close enough to actually prevent interference, and they broadcast a very strong electromagnetic signal that you can pick up with sensitive radio equipment from a few tens of meters away (or with a couple of transistors and a 1.5v cell at a distance of a few cm). Whether or not the cable is twisted has no impact on thi

Re:

[lucifuge31337 (529072)]

I think you're confused about what direction the interference is prevented in. It tends to allow the cable to be shielded, protecting the signal on the cable itself, not to shield the cable from leaking/emitting signal. And it really doesn't work all that well. If you've ever used a fox and hound on a bundle of cables to figure out which is which, you'll notice that it bleeds over to other cables pretty badly, and bleeds to other pairs in the same cable horribly.

Re:

[LM741N (258038)]

Your remarks about limited bandwidth are patently false. See the American Radio Relay League www.arrl.org and its discussion on BPL, and on their Federal Lawsuit against the FCC for promoting the wide bandwidth BPL. There are systems that have been developed, for example, at Motorola, that reduce interference in the 1Mhz to 30Mhz range, but no one seems to want to use them or care, despite violating FCC regulations that say that unlicensed devices cannot interfere with properly licensed ham radio and pub

Re:

[MichaelSmith (789609)]

It occurred to me that if you ran fibre cable to your mosque there is a chance of it being ripped off and sold. Power cable can be stolen as well but you risk being electrocuted in the process.

Re:

[jamesh (87723)]

Why would a mosque need internet access? Isn't it suppose to be a place of worship, not an internet cafe?

People should be free to worship their deity of choice in their own way. If they want to do so sitting in front of a computer screen looking at pictures of naked women then who are you to judge them?

Re:

[budgenator (254554)]

You seem to have glossed over the point that Islam, Judaism and Christianity all worship the same God.

Re:

[raju1kabir (251972)]

I think the government could have just as easily chosen a library...

Oh yes, one of the many wonderful public libraries that dot the villages and towns of Indonesia.

Somtimes I wonder if Turkish people generally regard themselves as Islam as more of a "suicide bombing public insurance program".

They better invent secular kurdism as well then.