FCC, FAA Still Don't Want Cell Phones on Planes

mattnyc99 writes "Last month we learned that the UK has approved in-flight mobile, effective immediately. Popular Mechanics has a follow-up on why the phones-on-planes ban is here to stay in the United States. Statements from the FCC and FAA confirm that any chance to overturn it remains dead on arrival — even though new "pico-cell" networks cut down interference with phones on the ground. American Airlines is looking like it will have onboard Wi-Fi within the next couple months, just the same. PM does note, however, that if the European mobile rollout is a success, US carriers might just have to give into demand."

I don't want cell phones on planes.

[dattaway (3088)]

Imagine a two hour flight with everyone talking to their hands. Or the ones with blinking blue cockroaches in their ears talking to the seat in front of them. No thanks.

Re:I don't want cell phones on planes.

[bcat24 (914105)]

I couldn't agree more. Don't get me wrong, I love my cell phone as much as the next guy. It's just that there are some places where non-emergency phone calls are inappropriate. Plane flights are bad enough without people chatting on their cell for hours on end.

In-flight wifi, on the other hand, sounds far more promising. I can imagine it being used for some really awesome things, like movie rentals that work directly with your laptop.

Re:I don't want cell phones on planes.

[Loki_1929 (550940)]

"In-flight wifi, on the other hand, sounds far more promising. I can imagine it being used for some really awesome things, like movie rentals that work directly with your laptop.

Or voice over IP via a bluetooth headset paired to the laptop.

Wait a minute... D'OH!

Re:I don't want cell phones on planes.

[Alinabi (464689)]

Actually, plane flights are so bad, that nothing can make them worse. Someone talking on the phone next to me is nothing compared to the 4 year old kid behind me kicking my seat for 7 hours in a row. At least now I can use the dead time to call my mother, who always complains I don't call enough. The only question is: will I be able to take my knees out of my mouth to reach for the phone in my pocket?

Re:I don't want cell phones on planes.

[gnick (1211984)]

Exactly. I generally dislike cells - I think they're obnoxious, but acknowledge that they're great in emergencies and useful for people who want/need to be plugged-in all the time. Personally I find use in restaurants, etc. is a nuisance to other patrons. But that should not influence federal regulations. If enough patrons want a phone-free airline, I'd like to believe that we'd have phone-free flights (unlikely, but not enough reason to legislate). The only issues that should be considered by the FAA/FCC are safety and interference.

I think that forcing private businesses to disallow smoking is BS too, but at least they were trying to justify it through employee health complaints. Several of these comments seem to condone federal legislation to ban an annoyance in the name of safety. Gross.

Missing the real point

[Gription (1006467)]

The real issue weapons on planes...

Think about it. If they allowed people to yammer away (loudly) on their cells on airplanes (where we can't get away from them) the FAA/TSA would have to let us take our guns on the plane to shut them up!

Re:

[Chasuk (62477)]

I understand your sentiment, but I still disagree with you. First, for the people who are unable to regulate themselves, we unfortunately sometimes have to enforce courtesy. There is precedent, even. Talk too loudly for too long in a cinema, and they will remove you. This is solely because you are irritating other customers, not for health or safety. Second, my level of agitation would be nearly homicidal if I had to suffer some inconsiderate idiot's conversation for an entire flight.I would consider i

Re:I don't want cell phones on planes.

[Rival (14861)]

we unfortunately sometimes have to enforce courtesy. There is precedent, even. Talk too loudly for too long in a cinema, and they will remove you.

It seems to me like that would work just as well on a plane.

Re:I don't want cell phones on planes.

[Shakrai (717556)]

They have been cracking down on places like restruants that put in devices to block cell-phones

Rightfully so, since those devices (AKA jammers) are illegally broadcasting on licensed frequencies. I don't generally care much for the business practices of the wireless industry but they did spend billions of dollars for those licenses and have legitimate grounds to be pissed if you throw your jammer onto their spectrum.

If you don't want people using cell phones in your establishment then make that a policy and ask people to leave who can't follow it. Or retrofit your building with a Faraday Cage (some theaters are doing this with new construction). Those are your legal options.

Re:

[a whoabot (706122)]

They have the right to choose how photons movie in my house? I think it's reasonable to allow people to broadcast whatever frequencies they want in the range of their own property...

Re:

[jackbird (721605)]

Because people just have to fucking yell into the things.

Re:I don't want cell phones on planes.

[Caligatio (1064234)]

Yea, this would drive me absolutely batty. Of course, if WiFi is OKed, that means that VoIP is possible.

No, VoIP will be blocked

[walterbays (1136723)]

They'll block VoIP in the initial sky Wifi: http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=1506 [zdnet.com]

I read a suggestion that when someone has a loud "private" conversation, you simply join into the conversation as they clearly intended all their neighbors to do by talking so loudly:

• "Oh you're right about that. I wouldn't put up with it for a minute. You should just tell him where to go."
• "How long has your sister had this disease?"
• "That's great news for you. I sure hope none of your competitors find out that you're going to bid 20k. Will you give me a call later and tell me how it comes out?"

Re:

[bluemetal (1269852)]

I agree. As if screaming babies weren't enough.

Re:I don't want cell phones on planes.

[LWATCDR (28044)]

The babies don't bother me. The Adults tend to be 10 times worse. I used to fly a lot. I never had a terrible problem with babies. Yes sitting next to a 450 lbs woman that thought a beach umbrella was carry on luggage. A jerk that not only yelled at me for putting my bag in the over head because it might crush his cell phone. A bodybuilder that started to cry when we hit a little rough air.
The wost had to be the guy that yelled at the two nuns with orphans. They made a tiny bit of noise and this guy started yelling them to shut them up.
Just being in the same plane with that guy has got to be really bad karma.
Babies? Heck they are babies, they don't know any better. It is the adults that make the flights hell.

Re:I don't want cell phones on planes.

[Rakarra (112805)]

Lucky. On my last plane flight I walked down the aisle towards my seat, noting there was screaming baby towards the front of the plane.. annoying, but fortunately 10 rows away from my seat. When I finally got to my seat though, I noticed it had been taken. There was an old Chinese couple who were tourists sitting in my seat and the seat next to it, and from what I gathered by examining their tickets they had bought seats separately and so were located on opposite ends of the plane. But they seemed rather nervous (probably because they were stealing my seat) and seemed (feigned?) to speak no English and very clearly did not want to be separated). So rather than make a scene, I agreed to switch tickets (the thought of spending the next four hours sitting next to an angry Chinese tourist didn't appeal either). So I walked back to where the woman was supposed to be sitting and settled down... in the seat directly in front of the howling baby. I got owned.

Re:

[Chris Burke (6130)]

Imagine a two hour flight with everyone talking to their hands. Or the ones with blinking blue cockroaches in their ears talking to the seat in front of them. No thanks.

For serious. I don't care what their excuse is, maintain the ban on cellphones! I've even pretended to agree with the technical reasons for the ban before when someone has asked me. "Oh, cell phones? Oh yeah, the FAA is right, they'll fuck a plane up. All those e-m wave frequencies can interfere with the avionics, and the tachyons gener

Re:I don't want cell phones on planes.

[MoxFulder (159829)]

Is a bunch of people talking on phones any different than a bunch of people talking to each other?

Yes. People talking on cell phones seem to lack a basic situational awareness and volume control. I don't mind real-life conversations all around me, not at all. But people on cell phones always seem to talk too loud, say inappropriate things, and have no awareness of the real world around them. I know I'm guilty of it myself...

Re:

[Omestes (471991)]

I don't fly that often, but I've noticed that planes are rather quiet most of the time. When people talk to each other on planes they do so in a conversational tone, or lower.

When people talk on cellphones they are LOUDER for some reason. Most people like to yell at their phones.

Cellphones also encourage people to babble constantly like idiots, for some reason.

Re:I don't want cell phones on planes.

[mcmonkey (96054)]

When people talk on cellphones they are LOUDER for some reason. Most people like to yell at their phones.

Cell phones do not give the same feedback as most land line phones.

When you talk into a regular phone, your voice repeats back through your earpiece. This not only provides feedback on the clarity of your voice, it also provides psychological assurance that you can be heard.

When you talk into a cell phone, you voice is not repeated back to you. Since you have a hard time hearing yourself (compared to when talking on a regular phone) you naturally speak louder to compensate.

There is also the issue of the cell phone on the other side. Think about it, and you will probably catch yourself doing it automatically--when the person you are speaking with is using a cell phone, you add a little volume, presuming your audience does not have as clear a connection than they would have using a land line.

The solution is, when speaking, to concentrate on what you are saying and not how you hear your own voice. You can't rely on the feedback from your cell phone to regulate your volume. You have to assume the other person would tell you to speak up if they can't hear you.

Re:

[xstonedogx (814876)]

Yes, for a few reasons:

1. It's well established that it is more difficult for people to tune out one-sided conversations.
2. People use louder voices when talking on their cellphones than when talk to someone next to them.
3. Talking on the cellphone brings the focus outside their current environment, making cell-phone users less considerate of those around them.
4. People traveling alone generally don't talk with other people on the flight since they don't know anyone. So more people are going to be talking.

A

Re:I don't want cell phones on planes.

[Pig Hogger (10379)]

All they're doing is improving the airport's profits, and as a result, some of that will lower my ticket cost in the future...

Since you believe that improving an airline's bottom-line will yield cheaper tickets, there's that nice bridge in San-Francisco (complete with "Free Tibets" banners) I want to sell you.

Re:

[mustafap (452510)]

>People don't *like* having their homes burglarized.

The word you are looking for is burgled.

Burglarized is when someone breaks in and redecorates.

Funny that.

[Wowsers (1151731)]

What a strange co-incidence, I don't want phones on a plane either. I don't want to hear 400 calls of "Hello, you never guess where I'm calling from."

Re:

[4D6963 (933028)]

"Hello, you never guess where I'm calling from."

"Can.. Can you hear me now? ... Can you hear me now?"

I don't want to listen to my neighbor on a plane

[OYAHHH (322809)]

> US carriers might just have to give into demand

Well, as far as I'm concerned, they already have. I don't want some blabber-mouth next to me trying to yell over the jet's noise for a cross country trip.

Now, if they want to instigate a cell-phone free area at the front or rear of the plane like they used to do with smoking versus no-smoking sections then I say go-for-it...

Re:I don't want to listen to my neighbor on a plan

[$RANDOMLUSER (804576)]

I spend almost 3 hours a day on commuter trains. My most hated phrase, ever, is "NO!! I HAVE PLENTY OF TIME!! I'M ON THE TRAIN!!"

Talking of Non-Talking

[DaveInAustin (549058)]

Unfortunately, it's probably only a matter of time. Since we don't have smoking sections anymore, how about a quiet section. Amtrak [amtrak.com] and the TGV have a quiet cars. Smoke travels almost as well as sound. And if noise really troubles you, pick up some noise-blocking headphones [etymotic.com] or just some earplugs [hearos.com]. Just don't wind up like this guy [nytimes.com]

Re:I don't want to listen to my neighbor on a plan

[Original Replica (908688)]

I know a number of people who ride the commuter trains, and more and more of them are starting to carry these handy little devices. [phonejammer.com] No, no one cares about how legal these are or are not. Turn them on just long enough for the offending phone to lose the call, and they are undetectable.

Re:

[gad_zuki! (70830)]

If you use that on a plane dont be surprised if you end up in prison. I seriously doubt those things are 100% safe when it comes to avionics.

Re:

[PitaBred (632671)]

I'd say that they're just as safe as any cell phone would be. They don't use much more power. The trick would be getting something that looks like a remote bomb detonator through security.

The concern is..

[esocid (946821)]

I can't remember who I remember hearing this from, but during some flight I recalled some flight personnel talking about it and the reason behind it being that not all cell phones are alike and not all plane equipment is alike. The testing needed to be completely sure that there wouldn't be any sort of interference would be horrendously laborious, not to mention that something new comes out just about every month. I can't vouch that this is absolutely true, but I do see where they are coming from.
Plus like one of the above posts said, I don't want Mr. "I'm an important asshat" blabbing on his bluetooth earpiece while I'm trying to sleep. People don't have common sense so let's just leave it at that.

Re:The concern is..

[Sandbags (964742)]

The issue was with old, pre-CDMA cell phones and extremely old avionics, like those found in small and mid-sized non-comercial aircraft about 40 years ago.

Modern cockpits have been retrofitted with systems that shield from various types of this radiation and signal interference, and the older touchy meters are only found in old, personally owned aircraft today. Also, not a single one of those old phones that DID cause the interference is in use today since those old networks were dismantled years ago.

This is what happens when people who do not understand technology are allowed to make decisions for people that do.

People forget to turn on or off their cell phones on every flight I've been on for years... I'll hear voicemail chimes start going off about a mile from the ground, typically about 10 minutes or so before landing. I'll also catch kids whipping out phones to play games in-flight, phones that I know for certain don't support radio-off airline operation modes.

Not one plane has complained about avionic radio interference. With tens of thousands of people in the air every day, and at least one person on every flight forgetting to turn it off (or leaving it on on purpose), we'd have heard about an issue.

If the medical industry was held to the standards of the FAA, we'd just now be seeing asprin appear on store shelves for the first time.... 45 billion test cases, not one single failure, but ya never know... we need to do more testing....

Re:The concern is..

[Detritus (11846)]

I'm looking at an ASRS summary report right now and the #1 cause of interference to aircraft systems is, guess what, cell phones!

NASA/CR-2001-210866, Personal Electronic Devices and Their Interference With Aircraft Systems [nasa.gov]

I hate loud stupid Cellphone users

[zymano (581466)]

These also show up at the library and bookstores.

STFU already.

Someone needs to tell off these annoying Aholes. Especially women who babble endlessly about stupid trifling crap.

I about blew my lid at the library once. There is a big sign that even says turn off your phones , guess what , they still IGNORE it.

And those stupid ringtones!!!

Start fining these assholes!

Re:

[4D6963 (933028)]

And those stupid ringtones!!! Start fining these assholes!

I agree, it's about time the government does something about these people are obviously unable to decide what's a ringtone and what's a cheesy song you should only listen to when you're home alone and with headphones on.

I suggest a few categories in order to define fines. Category A would be stupid rap and pop songs, with a $10 fine, Category B would be really cheesy love songs and the likes, $25 fine, and Category C would be Crazy Frog, make it a

Re:

[russotto (537200)]

All of these cell-phone drones think that they should be able to do whatever they want just because they can, with no respect for others. To me this is the definition of selfish.

Imagine, being permitted to speak, in public no less???!!! Very selfish.

Re:

[zymano (581466)]

If I am in the toilet stall right next to you and i have trouble dropping one because of your voice then i am going stick your head down the toilet.

Government Intervention

[manekineko2 (1052430)]

It's funny how despite the fact that the crowd at Slashdot is generally overwhelmingly pro-tech, the average reader is also very hostile to the idea of in-flight calls based on past stories on this.

Moreover, it's funny how despite the fact that the crowd at Slashdot is generally overwhelmingly anti-government regulation, when it comes to things they want the government to regulate, like banning in-flight cellular phone use, they're generally more than happy to acquiesce.

Unless the cell phones present a safety concern, I don't see any reason whatsoever for the government to be involved in banning in-flight cell phone use. If the free market turns out to be interested in having quiet flights without cellular phone use, then I'm sure carriers will be more than happy to offer flights and/or cabins that ban cellular phone use. There are already laws that make not complying with flight attendants a crime. If the market turns out to be more interested in the convenience of using phones on planes, then who are you to be telling them through the use of legalized government force to prevent airlines from serving those markets?

Other than the interference with navigational controls and ground based towers, which are supposed to be eliminated with the pico-cells, and which we'll soon get to the bottom of with the UK legalizing, I haven't heard of a single legitimate reason to involve governmental intervention in this. The blurb about terrorism concerns and remote detonating bombs sounds like more pointless scare-mongering with no increase in security. The article itself admits that people are already surreptitiously using cellular phones.

It's nice that most Slashdoters don't want cell phones on planes, but it's downright screwed up to use governmental force to make everyone go along with it without a public purpose behind it.

Re:Government Intervention

[Original Replica (908688)]

If there are no safety issues involved, then the FCC and the FAA have no place in the discussions.

Sometime when people are forced to stay in close proximity to very annoying people, safety becomes a concern. I've seen tensions escalate very quickly when someone on a subway tells another passenger to turn down their headphones, and subway rides usually last less than half an hour. However, as the repercussions for getting into a fistfight on an airplane are more severe, so too must the regulations on other behaviors be more severe, since the normal coarse for the societal correction of unacceptable behavior is being artificially suppressed.

While many passengers would be grateful for the first person to punch out some cell phone screamer an hour into the flight, that person would still be facing serious legal trouble upon landing. As a fistfight between passengers is not a danger to the airplane's ability to complete it's flight, that would have to be unregulated along side the no cell phones rule.

Technical difficulties

[Corpuscavernosa (996139)]

Verizon has enough problems switching between towers without dropping calls while I'm moving in my car. On a plane? Shit...

The Real Reason

[amplt1337 (707922)]

But if we allow cell phones on domestic flights, who'd use the $5-a-minute credit-card-op plastic phone from the seat in front of you?

Mythbusters episode covered this

[dontmakemethink (1186169)]

There was a Mythbusters episode (season 4 episode 6) where they got serious interference under test conditions with actual airplane instruments, but were unable to interfere with the instruments on an actual plane. They concluded that even though they couldn't create a hazardous situation, it would be an extremely bad idea to take the risk, since it is plausible and there's only one way to find out!

They also made a good point that air travel would be prohibitively expensive if insurance companies required airlines to verify that every component of every plane in their fleets were impervious to cel phone interference. That makes the $5 plane phone seem a lot less sinister.

Re:

[Bagheera (71311)]

I remember the Mythbusters episode in question, and the conditions they were able to get "significant interference" in was Grant's mockup cockpit. While he put all the pieces together, he didn't put them together with the same levels of shielding that a real aircraft would have. When they moved to a borrowed corporate jet, they got no results as you pointed out. The difference being that an aircraft's controls and instruments are well shielded from stray RF interference.

I seem to remember their conclusio

What good is onboard Wi-Fi if...

[stewbacca (1033764)]

...you don't have any flights?

American Airlines is looking like it will have onboard Wi-Fi within the next couple months,

American Airlines is looking like it won't have any flights left, after canceling over 1000 flights this week so far.

Re:Ill pass, thanks.

[Actually, I do RTFA (1058596)]

i cannot imagine how horrible a 3 hour delay on the aircraft will be then! wifi i can see, laptops, internet = good. Cellphones = bad.

And when I make VoIP calls using a microphone..?

Re:Ill pass, thanks.

[bcat24 (914105)]

i cannot imagine how horrible a 3 hour delay on the aircraft will be then! wifi i can see, laptops, internet = good. Cellphones = bad.

And when I make VoIP calls using a microphone..?

You better hope I'm not sitting behind you when you try that. (Last time I checked, cluesticks weren't on the list of banned weapons. :D)

Re:Ill pass, thanks.

[Actually, I do RTFA (1058596)]

Last time I checked, cluesticks weren't on the list of banned weapons.

Based on my observations, no one has gotten within 20 feet of a TSA agent with one on their person.

Re:The actual reason...

[smooth wombat (796938)]

Except for the fact that in the case of one plane, the one that went down in PA, some people on the plane were able to call out and notify authorities of their hijackings and provide some information as to the number of hijackers, weapons, etc. In the case of the hostesses, they used on board phones, not cell phones, but some passengers did call their family and/or authorities.

I realize you mean the other way, someone calling you, for why cell phones shouldn't be used on planes due to the panic issue, but I'm still against them being used. Not that I have any inclination to fly anytime soon but if I did, I get enough of someone else's yammering walking around stores. I don't need to be confined for a few hours with no way to get away from, "Yeah, I be tellin her dat she ain't gonna be good wif him. Uh huh."

Re:

[daveo0331 (469843)]

That's exactly what happened on flight 93, and those phone calls are a big part of the reason why that plane crashed in a field in Pennsylvania instead of wherever the terrorists intended to crash it (speculation is they were heading for the US Capitol).