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It's Not a Flying Car - It's a Drivable Airplane

Posted by timothy on Thu May 08, 2008 12:10 PM
from the transcend-potholes dept.
waderoush writes "Aviation enthusiasts have been dreaming of flying cars since the 1940s. But in an old machine shop in Woburn, MA, a team of MIT aero/astro grads is building what could be the first practical airplane that's also certified for highway driving. Angel-funded startup Terrafugia, headed by 2006 Lemelson-MIT Student Prize winner Carl Dietrich, hopes to have its first full-scale proof-of-concept vehicle ready to show off at July's AirVenture aviation festival in Oshkosh, Wisconsin."
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] Terrafugia CEO Responds To "Flying Car" Criticism 233 comments
waderoush writes "The majority of the comments on last week's Slashdot post It's Not a Flying Car — It's A Drivable Airplane were critical, even dismissive, of Terrafugia's work to build a two-passenger airplane with folding wings that's also certified for highway driving. We boiled down these criticisms to the dozen most commonly expressed points, and today we've published responses from Terrafugia CEO Carl Dietrich. While hybrid airplane-automobiles are an old (some would say laughable) idea, Dietrich argues that current materials and avionics technologies finally make the concept feasible."
[+] "Roadable Aircraft" Moving Towards Launch 186 comments
We discussed Terrafugia's plans for what they don't like to call a "flying car" — rather a "roadable aircraft" — last spring. The Boston Globe has an update on Massachusetts-based Terrafugia and its fight to get airborne in these parlous times. "The last serious attempt to bring a car-airplane hybrid to market was the Aerocar, in 1949. According to Carl Dietrich, chief executive of Terrafugia, that company built six prototypes. It needed 500 orders in order to gear up for mass production, but it never got there... 'It can be hard to explain the value of this to non-pilots,' Dietrich says, 'but when you're a pilot, the problems of high costs, limited mobility on the ground, and weather sensitivity are in your face, all the time.' The company says more than 50 of the vehicles have been pre-ordered. The target price is $198,000."
[+] Pentagon Clears Flying-Car Project For Takeoff 90 comments
unassimilatible writes "DARPA has announced a 'Personal Air Vehicle Technology' project. It will 'ultimately lead to a working prototype of a military-suitable flying car — a two- or four-passenger vehicle that can "drive on roads" one minute and take off like a helicopter the next. The hybrid machine would be perfect for "urban scouting," casualty evacuation and commando-delivery missions, the agency believes.' Wired has the summary of the project." Maybe they'll take inspiration from Terrafugia's "drivable airplane."
[+] Flying Car Ready To Take Off 315 comments
ChazeFroy writes "The first flying automobile, equally at home in the sky or on the road, is scheduled to take to the air next month. If it survives its first test flight, the Terrafugia Transition, which can transform itself from a two-seater road car to a plane in 15 seconds, is expected to land in showrooms in about 18 months' time. Terrafugia claims it will be able to fly up to 500 miles on a single tank of unleaded petrol at a cruising speed of 115mph. Even at $200,000 per automobile, they have already received 40 orders."
[+] Flying Car Passes First Flight Test 273 comments
waderoush writes "Terrafugia — the Massachusetts company building a 'roadable aircraft' (that's flying car to you and me) — revealed at a press conference Wednesday that the Transition vehicle has been taken aloft for its maiden flight. The craft, which can fly up to 460 miles at 115 mph and then fold up its wings for 65-mph highway driving, was the subject of two hotly debated Slashdot posts on May 8 and May 13 of last year. The company said the first flight took place in Plattsburgh, NY; retired Air Force Colonel Phil Meteer was at the controls."
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  • Stupid idea (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Reason58 (775044) on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:13PM (#23339796)
    Look at the accident and fatality rates with the masses and regular cars. I can't imagine how many deaths this would cause worldwide. A flying car is great in cheesy novels and movies, but horrible in reality.
    • Re:Stupid idea (Score:5, Insightful)

      by NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:20PM (#23339920) Homepage
      Somehow I doubt the various aviation authorities (FAA and its equivalents outside the US) are going to start blindly issuing pilot certificates to people just because they have a driver's license and a flying car.

      For places with no aviation authorities, yeah, they'll probably see their share of car-planes landing/falling in interesting places because some moron was trying to shave, drink his coffee, and check his email while flying to work. But those places will be few and far between.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        For places with no aviation authorities, yeah, they'll probably see their share of car-planes landing/falling in interesting places because some moron ...

        Maybe someone familiar with the safety statistics for single engine planes can chime in, but here in California it's not at all uncommon to read about planes crashing into people's homes and backyards.
        • Re:Stupid idea (Score:5, Informative)

          by TooMuchToDo (882796) on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:43PM (#23340306)
          As a recreation/part-time-for-fun pilot, I'm chiming in:

          http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/trend.html [aopa.org]

          Fourth quarter, 2007

          The number of general aviation accidents was down slightly (2 percent) for the fourth quarter. In year-to-date comparisons, general aviation accidents saw an increase as compared to 2006 figures (6 percent).

          General Aviation Accidents

          According to the FAA, there were a total of 315 general aviation accidents in the fourth quarter of 2007 (down 2 percent from 2006). This figure is the lowest total for the fourth quarter. Accidents for the past several months showed a continued improvement of the GA safety record. Year-end comparisons show a 6-percent increase in general aviation accidents (1,607 in 2007 vs. 1,518 in 2006).

          • Re:Stupid idea (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Free the Cowards (1280296) on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:53PM (#23340442)
            These numbers are meaningless without corresponding numbers on how much flying was done. With the soaring price of avgas I wouldn't be surprised if accidents were down slightly simply because people are flying less.

            And to the grandparent poster: judging safety by reading the news is almost precisely backwards. The reason you hear about small planes crashing into things on the news is because it's rare enough to be newsworthy. A hundred people die on the roads in this country every day, and they almost never show up on the news because it's simply too commonplace.
            • Re:Stupid idea (Score:4, Informative)

              by twistedsymphony (956982) on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:58PM (#23340522) Homepage

              These numbers are meaningless without corresponding numbers on how much flying was done. With the soaring price of avgas I wouldn't be surprised if accidents were down slightly simply because people are flying less.
              I disagree, they're measuring the accidents as a percentage of the total flights... so even if the total number of flights per year drops the percentage should theoretically remain the same.

              There are a large enough number of flights even with fewer flights that it shouldn't effect the overall percentage of incidents per flight.
              • Where does it say that? The linked page uses a raw accident count everywhere, and never gives any indication that it's comparing meaningful numbers, such as accidents per hour or accidents per mile. Nowhere does it mention a percentage of total flights.

                Your second paragraph simply makes no sense. The number of flights being made is irrelevant, only the percentage change matters.

                Tracking the number of GA flights being made is hard, so let's use avgas sales as a substitute. The linked page indicates that avga
            • Re:Stupid idea (Score:5, Informative)

              by TooMuchToDo (882796) on Thursday May 08 2008, @01:01PM (#23340566)
              http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=29293775-85f9-4007-817c-bd65a1060dda [aero-news.net]

              ASF notes that "...Back in 1950, the total accident rate was 46.68 accidents per 100,000 flight hours (the 100,000-hour measure being the statistical standard); the fatal accident rate was 5.17 per 100,000 flight hours. Today, both those numbers have plunged dramatically--7.05 and 1.26 per 100,000 hours, respectively. Those represent 85-percent and 76-percent drops. Fifty years ago, newspapers and accident reports were replete with stories of fatal buzzing accidents, hundreds of fatal forays by VFR-only pilots into instrument weather, and scads of fatal stall-spin accidents. These sorts of accidents still plague us now, but what a difference 50 years has made."

              Emphasis mine.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          And with something like this, I'd expect it all the more. If you want it to both drive and fly, it's going to have to be poor at one, the other, or most likely, both, and the more you try and make it not be bad at both, the more it's going to cost. For example, the passenger safety cell. To be safe, you need to get a lot of metal around you. Sure, you could use titanium to have it just as strong as steel but 60% of the weight, but that'd really raise costs, and honestly, 60% of the weight isn't enough o
      • Actually... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by filthpickle (1199927) on Thursday May 08 2008, @01:11PM (#23340754)
        As long as the weather isn't bad doing those things while flying would be easier than doing it in a car. Once you are in the air modern aircraft pretty much fly themselves.

        I'm not a pilot but I had a job as a lineman at small county airport while in college. I used to fly all over the place with the pilots that worked for the company, either for fun or (no shit) so they could have someone to talk to and not fall asleep. (we did overflow for UPS, all the flights were in the middle of the night)

        You take off, get clearance to fly a direct route to where you are going, enter in to the gps the code for airport you just left and which one you are going to, and wait until you get there.

        Amusing story, The first time I ever flew in a plane was after I started working there. One of the pilots had just landed from a long flight, something came up and he had to immediately go on another flight. He knew I had never flown so he asked me if I wanted to go with him. We take off, he sets the gps up then leans back in the seat and says "wake me up if I fall asleep". Slightly disconcerting for your first time in the air.
        • by Chris Burke (6130) on Thursday May 08 2008, @02:03PM (#23341514) Homepage
          We take off, he sets the gps up then leans back in the seat and says "wake me up if I fall asleep". Slightly disconcerting for your first time in the air.

          Nice.

          I want to hear a commuter jet pilot say that over the intercom on a red eye flight some light. "*kkrsh* Ladies and gentlemen, this is your Captain speaking. I've pulled a double shift today, so if the plane starts to list, please knock loudly on the cockpit door."
    • Re:Stupid idea (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jafafa Hots (580169) on Thursday May 08 2008, @01:40PM (#23341134) Homepage Journal
      RTFA. This is NOT a "car that can fly." In other words, its not aimed at allowing drivers to take to the skies.

      It's aimed at allowing PILOTS to take to the roads.

      In other words, people who fly now don't have to pay a hangar fee, they can keep their plane in their driveway. If going somewhere, they don't have to pay a hangar fee and then rent a car to get to their final destination, they can drive their plane there.

      Totally different focus, totally different market. Flying cars were stupid, but this is a damned good idea.

      • Re:Stupid idea (Score:5, Insightful)

        by mcrbids (148650) on Thursday May 08 2008, @01:58PM (#23341418) Journal
        Totally different focus, totally different market. Flying cars were stupid, but this is a damned good idea.

        Oh my !@#king godz yes!

        One of the biggest limitations of flying is... what do you do once you land there? It's just like fast Internet - the famous "last mile" problem. Great, there's a small airport just 3 miles from your destination, making your 6 hour drive, 3-day trip into a 1.5 hour flight, day-tripper, but how do you get that last 3 miles from the airport to your actual, intended destination?

        You can rent a car, but that's hassle-prone and expensive. You can ask somebody there to pick you up, but that's dicey at best. Also, if the weather goes bad, you're stuck. And then what?

        This "drivable airplane" solves both problems completely!

        Yes, I'm a private pilot. I fly for business and pleasure. (had a great time taking my sister up just yesterday!) And let me tell you: I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want I want!!!
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Possibly, but I see this argument being as hollow as anti-gun arguments. With the proper training and safety rules, I think the general public can handle flying cars, especially if there are automated systems on board to help them. This is stuff that is going into cars now such as back up and tailgating warning systems using radar and cameras. The main barriers aren't can the public learn this but can we do this in a way that won't pollute the air 100 times worse than we are now and how can we manage coo
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Self-driving cars may be in the forseeable future, but if the technology already existed then there would be no DARPA Grand Challenge [wikipedia.org]. On the other hand, self-flying airplanes are much easier because, as I understand it, there are a lot few obstacles around and a lot of the decision making can be done by only reading instruments, not using human senses.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        In addition to lacking auto-driving tech, we in the US have a woefully inadequate licensing program. If you had to pass a test similar to a pilot's license test in order to drive a car, I bet accident rates would plummet to match that of airplanes.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        in a world with what 800 million cars I sure wouldn't that number of flying cars!

        The collision hazard for a given number of vehicles is much less when 1) they're able to spread out in the air instead of being confined to narrow channels on the surface, and 2) they spend far less time in transit.

        Navigating in 3D is a big win.

        -jcr
  • by CannonballHead (842625) on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:13PM (#23339798)
    Does that mean it's actually certified to drive, or just fits within the lane and all that? I'd feel kinda scared if there was a plane next to me on the freeway.
  • Not even the first post before the site was apparently slashdotted.
  • by techpawn (969834) on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:17PM (#23339864) Journal
    for the flying car [youtube.com]
    And I thought I knew you man...
  • I don't get it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by muellerr1 (868578) on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:18PM (#23339874) Homepage
    How is this different from any other crazy flying car [wikipedia.org]? It's still vaporware as long as there isn't a working prototype, and as far as the difference between a flying car and a 'roadable aircraft'--it seems like a marketing gimmick to me.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      The difference between a flying car and a roadable airplane is that a roadable airplane is more airplane than car. It is designed to land and get you a short distance to a nearby destination at relatively slow speeds. It is also more delicate on the ground than a regular car. The upside is that as an airplane, its functionality is mostly preserved. The concept of a Roadable Airplane is closer to the truth as far as what will actually work.

      Building roadable airplanes is all about minimizing the weight
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        I understand what you're saying, but any flying car (roadable aircraft or not) has to meet minimum specifications which make it a 'car'--and presumably, has qualities which make it fly. All I'm saying is, we've been hearing about flying cars for decades and we're still no closer to a practical mass-market product despite efforts like these because the whole idea of a flying car for the masses is fundamentally flawed.
    • Re:I don't get it (Score:5, Informative)

      by dafoomie (521507) <dafoomie@hotm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:52PM (#23340424) Homepage
      Its not so much a flying car as it is a conventional airplane you can drive. You still need an airport to take off and land, it can't hover and you can't fly locally. What it gives you is the ability to drive to the airport, take off, land at another airport, and drive to your destination in the same vehicle. Its also intended for pilots, its not a solution for the masses.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          How is that different from a flying car? Put another way, isn't that also what a flying car is expected to do?

          No, a "flying car" is typically expected to be able to fly from anywhere to anywhere, usually with the assumption that there will be vertical or near vertical takeoff and landing, and it is typically expected to be advanced enough that "everyone" can fly it.

          This is what I was getting at: the idea of a flying car for the masses is fundamentally flawed, since being a pilot takes a lot more skill than driving a car, and there's a higher risk involved since there's no such thing as a fender-bender in the air.

          Sigh. But this is not about a "flying car for the masses". it's about a plane that can be driven on a road to/from the airport. Why you keep bringing up flying cars when this thing targets an entirely different type of market is beyond me, unless

  • by elrous0 (869638) * on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:25PM (#23339994)
    Please God, tell me it's a hybrid!
  • by Skyshadow (508) * on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:26PM (#23340020) Homepage

    That whole ability-to-fly thing will come in handy when the first gust of wind you encounter blows you off a bridge.

    A very light car with a huge side profile = the ditch.

  • by SuperBanana (662181) on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:28PM (#23340058)

    hopes to have its first full-scale proof-of-concept vehicle ready to show off at July's AirVenture aviation festival in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.

    From the "endeavors best left unrushed" department...

    Seriously, rushing to meet unrealistic deadlines is what causes spectacular failure- and this is really something best left to perfect.

    You don't want to hear "AAAAAAAH!" from the crowd, you want to hear "oooooooo"...

  • by void* (20133) on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:28PM (#23340072)
    The flying Pinto crashed and burned:

    http://www.fordpinto.com/mitzar1.htm [fordpinto.com]

    http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=84720&key=0 [ntsb.gov]
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Because the creators were idiots. And they died. Spectacularly. And idiots dying spectacularly is funny. And comedy overshadows tragedy in the spectrum of the spectacular.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Can someone explain why the prototype pinto crashing and burning, and causing two fatalities, is funny?

        Because humor is mankind's way of dealing with failure and our own mortality? See if you can find a metacategory that contains all the things you laugh at. (I think it was Heinlein that first noticed this.)

        In any case, the guy screwed the wing struts into the pinto's door panels with sheet-metal screws. It's not like the crash was, you know, surprising. His death is not one for which heaven will gran

  • by mfnickster (182520) on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:35PM (#23340170) Homepage

    Here's how it's done, ladies and gents...

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcusjb/440970636/in/photostream/ [flickr.com]

  • Blind spots (Score:3, Interesting)

    by pjt48108 (321212) <[pjt48108] [at] [yahoo.com]> on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:37PM (#23340208) Homepage
    With its wings folded, it appears to have huge blind spots, so I can't see it as being considered fit for the road.
  • by brassman (112558) on Thursday May 08 2008, @12:59PM (#23340536) Homepage
    Not a lot of shared attributes between these two subclasses of class "vehicle."

    Car: heavy suspension built to handle potholes and such; real-world roads still apply various nasty twisting moments throughout the body, which must be stiff enough to cope. Can ignore the occasional shopping cart dimpling the sides as irrelevant to operational safety.

    Plane: built very VERY lightly. Undercarriage takes one good "whomp" on landing but time spent taxiing is a very small part of the overall life of the vehicle. Even a minor ding may result in it being flagged non-airworthy.

    Executive summary: Cars make lousy planes. Planes make lousy cars.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Problem is, you are thinking in 20th century materials. New materials such as carbon fiber and other new up and coming composites are extremely strong and flexible yet still durable enough to replace steel. As I have stated above. This will happen, but it is a matter of the technologies maturing and someone managing to put them together in a user friendly way. Home computing was thought impossible and the public too stupid to ever make use of one until the 1970's when the technologies matured and two gu
  • If you haven't seen it:
    The Flying Car [viewaskew.com] - A short by Kevin Smith
  • Killed by insurance (Score:3, Informative)

    by Kupfernigk (1190345) on Thursday May 08 2008, @01:53PM (#23341346)
    Most of these ideas get killed by insurance costs rather than engineering impracticality. To suggest that an unproven form of transport that is capable of falling out of the sky onto people and resulting in lawsuits is going to be affordable to insure in the United States suggests a happy ignorance of the American legal system and the history of the American medical system. Think of the sound of 1000 Ralph Naders trying to get famous off the back of killing a fledgling industry.

    I think the idea is impractical for many other, technical reasons, but litigiousness and insurance are the deadly killers.

    • by smellsofbikes (890263) on Thursday May 08 2008, @01:08PM (#23340680) Journal
      >The skills needed to fly are a lot higher than those to drive.

      As a regular driver and a semi-regular pilot, I'm not sure I agree with that. Driving takes continuous alertness and work because you're surrounded by dangerous stuff, much of it being driven in the opposite direction only a meter or so away by crazy idiots talking on cellphones. In a plane, somewhere between 70 and 95% of the time, you have nothing more than air molecules in all directions for better than 2 km. I know pilots who have set alarm clocks, gotten the plane in stable flight with their 3 axis autopilot, and then gone to sleep for an hour while the plane tooled through the sky: a damned bad idea, but perfectly viable in a plane.
      Aircraft demand some skill in handling the plane in takeoff, and rather a lot in landing, and *enormous* amounts when there's an emergency and you have to do a bunch of intelligent things in the right order to survive. But overall, as regards routine flying, I don't think they require anywhere near as much consistent skill as driving.
      • by llZENll (545605) on Thursday May 08 2008, @03:21PM (#23342504)
        I agree, but the only reason flying is easier is there is almost no one flying, if everyone were flying only a central computer would be able to coordinate flight plans, especially around cities. Driving is cake because if anything goes wrong, there is only one thing you need to know and remember to do, step on the brake, there is no analogy in flying, if something goes wrong in a plane you better have your shit together or you are dead. Also thinking in 3 dimensions rather than 2 is much harder for most people, probably not anyone on this site, but for most people it isn't easy.
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          You're right: it IS because the flying population is low. One part of that, though, is that you can fly just about anywhere: higher, lower, off to one side or the other. There aren't highways, so the traffic density is inherently vanishingly low: lots, and lots, and lots of space in the sky.
          But at the same time, when you look at where the traffic density is high, at airports, that's where the majority of accidents happen, and if there were more people flying, that number would rise disproportionately, lik
    • by badboy_tw2002 (524611) on Thursday May 08 2008, @01:16PM (#23340828)
      Ah, but now you've seen a classic /. poster archetype, the grumpy old man/Luddite. See any article on phones with more functions than making phone calls ("I just want something simple that makes a phone call"), game consoles with HD graphics ("no one wants these fancy graphics, no thanks"), HD TVs/BluRay/etc ("No one owns an HD tv, no one wants this, DVD is just fine for me thank-ya-very-much"), or websites that resemble anything past 1996 ("Whats with all these flash ads and graphics, give me 3 fonts on a repeating background!") This poster enjoys racing other posters of the same type to the bottom of the heap to show how old-school/not-affording that latest crap they are. Frequently spotted in threads about the iPhone, Wii/PS3/Xb360, and programming languages that were invented after 1981.

      That's all for now. Tune in later for "I know about topic X, topic X rhymes with article topic Y, let me tell you how smart I am" and everyone's favorite "This scientific breakthrough is no big deal unless I can buy some practical application of it tomorrow at Wal-Mart"
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      It's understandable. Imagine how they feel when every time they ask "where's my flying car?", the response back is "where's your pilot's license?".

      Those of us that are licensed pilots (alas, not current in my case) think this is a cool idea. Ground transport when you get to your destination airport is always an issue. Years back they used to sell a small motorbike that folded up into something the size of a suitcase, my father-in-law had one. Or if you have a regular destination, you buy a cheap used c
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      There are hundreds of small/medium airports and airfields that are miles from the nearest car rental agency. There might be a few rental agencies that might be willing to ferry a car out, at great added cost, but that's a decidedly non-trivial exercise, and not always available.