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First Release Candidate of Wine 1.0 Released
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Sat May 10, 2008 02:31 AM
from the come-a-long-ways dept.
from the come-a-long-ways dept.
moronikos writes to mention that the first release candidate of Wine 1.0 was announced and released into the wild today. This new version includes only bug fixes as the team is in a code freeze while pushing for the full 1.0 release.
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Wine 1.0 — Uncorked After 15 Years 638 comments
pshuke writes "After 15 years of development, Wine version 1.0 has been released. Wine is an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X, OpenGL, and Unix. While perfect windows compatibility has not yet been achieved, full support for Photoshop CS2, Excel Viewer 2003, Word Viewer 2003 and PowerPoint Viewer 2003 have been among the goals prior to the release. For further information about supported applications, head over to the appdb. Get it (source) while it's hot."
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but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:but... (Score:5, Funny)
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Cygwine? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:but... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:but... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:but... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:but... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:but... (Score:5, Funny)
It's really just placing a layer between reality and perception.
So definitely not an emulator.
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Re:but... (Score:5, Insightful)
If Wine would be an emulator, it would run equally well on PowerPC or SPARC hardware. It does not, you need the exact same hardware that the original program was intended for.
Finally, for the semantically pedantic: yes, recent versions of Dosbox also have a "dynamic" execution mode which tries to do the same that wine does. Naturally, it only works when running Dosbox on x86-compatible hardware.
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Re:but... (Score:4, Interesting)
QEMU does this too, as does any decent virtualization system. So emulation means translation between different kinds of hardware?
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Re:but... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:but... (Score:5, Informative)
Dosbox is technically both an emulator and compatibility layer, because it covers both hardware and OS changes, most emulators run the original hardware's OS (if it has one).
The Java Runtime would be an emulator if it wasn't for the fact that there is no hardware that runs Java bytecode natively (or at least, it came after the Java Runtime).
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Re:but... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:but... (Score:5, Insightful)
AMD does not emulate x86, it implements it. Similarly, WINE does not emulate the Win32 API, it implements it.
Conversely, QEMU emulates x86, it does not implement it.
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Re:but... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:but... (Score:5, Funny)
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Obligatory... (Score:4, Funny)
I'll drink to that!!!
(seriously though...hooray WINE!)
Wait, What?! (Score:5, Interesting)
Just my non-developer, non-programer, former WINE-user $.02.
Re:Wait, What?! (Score:4, Insightful)
being considered a 1.0 version seems to me like it shouldn't happen until it can at least come close to running most everything thrown at it.
Nah, it just has to run more old Windows apps than the latest version of Vista. I think Wine as it was 10 years ago met that requirement.
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Re:Wait, What?! (Score:4, Informative)
That said, quite a few apps are already working without problems in Wine. In order to be able to do a 1.0-release, they have selected a few (major) apps that have to be running flawlessly. I can't find a link for it now, but it's somewhat like:
- Adobe Photoshop CS2 (or CS4?)
- MS Office 2007 document viewers
- Google Picasa
That's a somewhat arbitrary list, and doesn't say anything about the 9765 [winehq.org] application that are listed in the AppDB, many of which work without problems. I think the 1.0 release does not constitute a milestone in and of itself, but it may help to expand its userbase, and hopefully we'll start to see a more dependable release cycle than just the bi-weekly "snapshot" release they have been doing.
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Re:Wait, What?! - Those stats aren't accurate (Score:5, Informative)
So take those numbers with a grain of salt. In some cases, it's completely possible a DLL will be nearly 100% functional with not many of the API's implemented at all. Microsoft has invented thousands of API's over the years and some have been dead on arrival - no one has ever used them. Even Microsoft doesn't use all of their API's. That's why within Wine development there's an often cited development method of, "Show me an app that actually uses that."
Finally, Tom hasn't updated those stats in almost a year and we've done a lot of work since then. (Big kudos to Tom Wickline for tackling that stuff.)
So what Wine really aims for is to take the most common few thousand API's and try to do them really well. Then we flesh out some bits around that. Then we stub out things around that and finally there's bits we just haven't even started.
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Re:Wait, What?! (Score:5, Informative)
- Photoshop CS2 tryout
- Microsoft Powerpoint Viewer 97 and 2003
- Microsoft Word Viewer 97 and 2003
- Microsoft Excel Viewer 97 and 2003
That's all they're targeting. I think it's a great idea to get to that level first, then expand without regression.Parent
So what's the definition? (Score:5, Insightful)
http://www.winehq.org/?announce=1.0-rc1 [winehq.org] pretty much has a list of bugfixes&features, just like any other release. Where's the beef in "1.0"?
I've got your definition right here (Score:5, Informative)
http://wiki.winehq.org/WineReleaseCriteria
In essence, 1.0 is just another release,
but with more stability (e.g. a month's
codefreeze and only very careful bugfixes)
and a few longstanding bugs
(e.g. serial I/O, dos apps) fixed not because
lots of people need them, but because it just
seemed wrong to reach 1.0 without fixing them.
Dan Kegel
Wine 1.0 Release Manager
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Do we still need to wait for SP1 ... (Score:5, Funny)
Hooray! Long live Wine 1.0! (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure it won't run all Windows apps perfectly - but then again, neither does Windows! There are lots of apps out there that have various bad code that often shouldn't even run at all but somehow gets away with working under a generic Windows XP install. Then they crash under Wine, Windows Vista, or even XP under odd configurations. And then there are the ones that do things different under different versions of Windows to get around bugs or varying behavior in Windows.
Also having a longer lived "1.0" branch would mean tips and tricks to getting individual programs to run would not become obsolete quite as quickly, and a Wine "1.0" users would not have to worry as much about apps breaking every few weeks.
At any rate, Wine has come a very long way - I remember when it was just trying to be a Windows 3.1 clone!
Re:Hooray! Long live Wine 1.0! (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Hooray! Long live Wine 1.0! (Score:5, Interesting)
Either Google Earth or Picasa (or both) do that.
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Y'know (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Y'know (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have to interoperate with Windows users who use specific software, and the Linux equivalents can't read/write files from that software sufficiently well for your purposes, then you may still find yourself looking for a way to run the Windows programs. This used to be the case a lot with MS Office; modern Linux office apps are pretty good at interoperating, so it's not an issue so much, though there are still a few rare cases where the Linux software won't be able to duplicate what MS Office does quite well enough. (Complex VBA macros that automate other Windows applications, for example. Though I don't know offhand whether Wine can handle those either, and frankly anyone who uses them deserves the pain they cause
Then there are the cases where the Linux programs are genuinely inferior. Again it's a question of whether that actually matters. For example, GIMP is good enough for most casual users and even many professionals, but still a lot of people are inevitably going to find there are things they need that it doesn't do, and then they're going to want a way to run Photoshop.
And finally we have the fundamental matter of freedom of choice. Some people just prefer various proprietary Windows applications, and it's good that they can have the freedom to choose to retain those, even if the Linux equivalent would work just as well. Linux is all about the freedom to use your computer how you like, after all!
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Re:Y'know (Score:5, Insightful)
The point of WINE is that, for a lot of people, there is one important app keeping them on Windows that has no open alternative. Without WINE, they have to keep a windows [virtual] machine around. With it, they can switch.
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Candidate version number (Score:5, Funny)
Wine - an unmitigated SUCCESS! (Score:5, Interesting)
what? (Score:4, Funny)
Mac Binaries? (Score:4, Interesting)
I think we have Vista to think for this (Score:5, Insightful)
With Vista so terrible and, really, only new machines going vista and old machines staying as they are on XP, the XP level of the Win32 API has remained fairly stable for a good number of years. In fact, it may be unlikely that Microsoft will ever be able to unify the user base on a new version of the API again.
(And yes I know that there are still users of 3.1, W95,W98,W98SE, etc. but these are static installations that typically don't buy new software.)
Wine, moving forward, has a very good chance of capturing a usable market because ISVs are reluctant to abandon XP in any meaningful way.
Can you help us? [t-shirt opportunity within] (Score:5, Informative)
We know we've got some core architecture just right. That's taken a long time to get there. Now we have a lot of bug squashing to do and in many cases it's pretty amazing how quickly regressions can be found, bugs tracked, etc if we just have a few more eyes on this release.
So we put together a list of things you can do to help us out - check it out here:
1.0 regression hunting [winehq.org]. And hey! We're giving out t-shirts to the folks who help us out the most.
Notice we didn't say anything about jumping in and writing code? You're certainly welcome to, and in some cases there might even be some low hanging fruit. However, without development experience on Wine's codebase your valuable time might best be spent regression testing your favorite game!
As always, thanks for all the support!
Re:serious question (Score:5, Informative)
How well do 3d games work with emulators?
If you run Windows on a virtual machine, you will still need Windows for that. With wine you don't.
But obviously you are free to use what ever you like and what works best for you. As wine is not ready, it is not a perfect solution, even it does have some advantages for the applications that work with it.
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Re:serious question (Score:5, Informative)
The long answer is that not all of the DirectX features are quite there, I don't know if it's current but there's an overview here [winehq.org]. The result is that some games won't play without native DLLs. Doing that requires the Windows files and adding an override in winecfg. This was a much larger issue before than it is now and it keeps getting fewer that need these overrides.
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Re:serious question (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:serious question (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:serious question (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:serious question (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't have a lot of spare RAM? (e.g. using VirtualBox requires enough RAM for the host OS + the RAM for the virtualized OS + the RAM for the app running in it; with Wine you eliminate the need for the virtualized OS)
You don't want to buy a Windows license/pirate Windows for a single app? (or more generally, you don't want Microsoft code on your system if you can help it?
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Re:serious question (Score:4, Informative)
I see a business model of developing programs for the dominant desktop platform but also certifying them to run properly under Wine for Linux users. If the application is explicitly Wine-aware, it shouldn't be that hard to get it Gtk+/Qt themed, use UNIX-styled file dialogs or call native libraries for Linux-specific functionality. Of course
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Re: serious question (Score:5, Insightful)
- ...don't have a copy of Windows to install and don't want to buy one.
- ...want the application window to use your normal X11 window manager rather than having to have an entire Windows environment with start menu and everything.
- ...don't want to wait for Windows to boot every time you want to run the application.
- ...want to run an application using 3D.
- ...don't have VMX hardware and don't want to shell out money for VMware.
- ...don't want the overhead of emulating the entire hardware.
I won't argue the reason that you don't want to run proprietary software, because if you're running Windows applications, that's probably not your problem. However, even so, I would feel it would be nice to be able to run e.g. a game without necessarily making my system a nest of evil. I've always felt that I don't mind games being proprietary -- they're a bit like movies or books in the way that it is the content, and not the code, that actually matters.That said, there are obviously lots of reasons for wanting to use Wine.
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Re: serious question (Score:5, Informative)
-Restil
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Re:serious question (Score:5, Informative)
1) You don't want to buy an MS-Windows license
2) You don't want to support Microsoft
3) You don't want to waste multiple gigabytes of hard drive space for a virtual drive
4) You want to be able to browse and manipulate the MS-Win files under Linux
5) You want native Linux file permissions
6) You want higher possible performance
7) You don't want to waste many hundreds of megabytes of RAM
8) You want to be able to use thin client to display the resulting program
9) You don't want to have to install, configure, and maintain another whole OS
10) You don't want to fight possible viruses, auto updates that break things, Windows Genuine, etc, etc
11) You want each program to appear as a real process
12) You want to be able to compile a program to run cross-platform
13) You want native Linux filesystem access while in the MS-Win application
14) You want native CUPS/printing access while in the MS-Win application
There are LOTS of reasons for WINE to exist despite virtual machines. That is not to say that virtual machines are not useful, just different.
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Re:Infinite Loop (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:What does 1.0 mean? (Score:5, Informative)
In the FOSS world, though, usually version 1.0 is a pretty big milestone showing that the software is complete, with few bugs known and little or no features missing. Some projects gone on for years in the 0.x numbers before ever getting to 1.0 (if ever). Wine itself started just naming it on the date (eg, Wine 20020314), but a couple years ago or so they started calling it 0.9.0 and so on.
Usually the big number in a version number represents important steps, though this can of course vary. For example, OpenBSD doesn't bother with making a fuss about what the number on the left means and they just increment by 0.1 always (after 3.9 came 4.0, and so on). GNU Emacs decided a long time ago that no complete rewrite would ever happen, and so they constantly increment the big number for large changes (they're at version 22.0 now). Hell, Netscape even decided to skip an entire number (4.7 -> 6.0) after the original company died and the new versions were based on the Mozilla project.
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Re:What does 1.0 mean? (Score:5, Informative)
http://wiki.winehq.org/WineReleaseCriteria [winehq.org]
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