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Time Warner Cable Tries Metering Internet Use

Journal written by Presto Vivace (882157) and posted by kdawson on Tue Jun 03, 2008 07:05 AM
from the been-there-done-that-gave-it-up dept.
As rumored a couple of months back, Time Warner is starting a trial of metered Internet access. "On Thursday, new Time Warner Cable Internet subscribers in Beaumont, Texas, will have monthly allowances for the amount of data they upload and download. Those who go over will be charged $1 per gigabyte... [T]iers will range from $29.95 a month for... 768 kilobits per second and a 5-gigabyte monthly cap to $54.90 per month for... 15 megabits per second and a 40-gigabyte cap. Those prices cover the Internet portion of subscription bundles that include video or phone services. Both downloads and uploads will count toward the monthly cap."
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[+] Time-Warner Considers Per-Gigabyte Service Fee, After iTunes 557 comments
destinyland writes "Time-Warner is now mulling a plan to charge a per-gigabyte fee for internet service. A leaked memo reveals they're now watching how many gigabytes customers use in a 'consumption-based' pricing experiment in Texas, which we discussed early last month. The announced plan was that they were considering a tier-based approach, as opposed to per-gigabyte fees. 'As few as 5 percent of our customers use 50 percent of the network,' Time-Warner complains, with plans to cap usage at 5-gigabytes, and more expensive pricing plans granting 10-, 20-, and 40-gigabyte quotas. Steven Levy at the Washington post suggests Time-Warner's real aim is to hobble iTunes, raising the cost of a movie download by $10 (or $30 for a high-definition movie). Eyeing Time-Warner's experiment, Comcast cable also says they're evaluating a pay-per-gigabyte model."
[+] AT&T Embraces BitTorrent, Considers Usage-Based Pricing 279 comments
Wired is running a story about AT&T's chief technical officer, John Donovan. He contrasts his view of BitTorrent and P2P in general against the controversial policies adopted by other ISPs. Donovan also explains why AT&T is considering usage-based pricing, citing the cost of network upgrades which only affect a small number of users. AT&T is expected to test the new pricing scheme later this year, which should give them plenty of time to see how Time Warner's customers respond to the idea. "'I don't view any of our customers, under any circumstances, as pirates -- I view them as users,' Donovan said. 'A heavy user is not a bad customer.' What he wants to do is gently encourage more efficient usage of his network, and usage-based pricing may be one of the ways that happens. Such measures may not even be necessary, as Donovan admits that users self-adjust their habits to take advantage of off-peak times. For instance, he said, BitTorrent on the company's network peaks around 4 a.m., when other traffic is at an ebb. Overall P2P traffic accounts for about 20 percent of the network's usage, Donovan said."
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  • by BiggerIsBetter (682164) <richard@@@vems...co...nz> on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:07AM (#23636445) Homepage
    Many many ISPs in many many countries operate this way. It's not as nice as "flat rate" in some folks eyes, but at least you get what you pay for (assuming no BT throttling, etc shenanigans).
    • But sadly, there WILL be BT throttling and other shenanigans going on and everyone in America knows it. Instead of investing in technology here, the big Telcos (and ROT IN HELL for this Billy Tauzin, et al) have a stranglehold on the market and can dictate everything. Therefore we're stuck in the bleeding Dark Ages while everyone else on the planet is sporting >=10Mbps at HOME.

      Bastards, every single one of them.
      • by JPLemme (106723) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:36AM (#23636673)
        Actually, the reason there will BT throttling and other restrictions on using the PC as a media device is because almost NO ONE in America knows it. Try discussing these issues with anyone who's not a regular on /. and watch the glassy stares they give back to you.

        If everyone in America knew what was happening there would be a hue and a cry to do something about it, just like with health care or gas prices.
        • by JMZero (449047) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @10:28AM (#23638967) Homepage
          When you're identifying a bird, you might say that it matches the "hue and cry" of a certain species. Hue means color, and naturally cry refers to the noise the bird makes. That's where this term came from - and usually it's used in the same situations where you might say "Well, if it walks like a duck..."

          It doesn't make sense for there to be a "hue and cry" as a reaction to something. Unless, perhaps, you imagine people are going to change color in anger.

          But I'm guessing your interpretation is as though both words are verbs, like people are "hew"ing and crying in anger or something.
          • by Moryath (553296) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @08:49AM (#23637467)
            All the US has is monopoly areas. That's because our fucked-up government handed out monopolies on phone service way back when, and "deregulation" doesn't help anything but picking who bills your phone service: all they do is "lease" your particular line from the company that owns it.

            For example:
            #1 - In my old apartment, I could only get DSL. DSL was only available through SBC. I could get phone service from any one of 5 phone providers, but SBC was the only one that could provide DSL, because SBC owned the lines and the DSL routers - and if I went with phone from one of the other phone companies, then I couldn't get DSL because SBC required an "active phone account" before providing the DSL service.

            #2 - Where I live now, we can't get DSL (no router close enough). We can only get cable from Comcrap, because they have a monopoly on cable TV service in the area. When I called Verizon about FiOS, I was told - surprise surprise - that FiOS will ONLY ever be available in places where Verizon owns the phone line infrastructure. So, my options are now either (a) Comcrap cable modem or (b) shitty satellite service with >2000ms pings.

            The kicker? I asked my elected representative why this is allowed, and they said that there is "national competition" between the phone companies... meanwhile, the gov't sits back and allows monopoly abuse by the data providers all over the fucking place.

            In the big metropolitan area I live in, we get radio ads trying to get people to "switch" between cable modem and DSL all the time. Yet looking over the map, less than 10% of the people even exist in an area where DSL and cable modem services overlap. It's all a big fraud.
    • by whisper_jeff (680366) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:36AM (#23636675)
      ...assuming no BT throttling, etc shenanigans.

      That's a bold assumption to make...
    • by treuf (99331) <treuf@@@users...sourceforge...net> on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:44AM (#23636723) Homepage
      Seen from the country I live in, all this is just unbelieveable.
      We have ADSL lines with speed up to 28Mb DL (remove ATM overhead) for prices starting at 18â per month.
      No cap, no bullshit, nothing.
      Usually for a higher price (starting at 29â), you get unlimited phone calls to many countries (japan, us, europe, etc...) and video over IP (TV, video on demand, other funky services)
      All this without even talking about fiber which is being deployed, and cable.

      I cannot understand how the country where the internet was born is going this way ...
      Looks like there is either no competition, or no incentive to upgrade the network.
      • by Rogerborg (306625) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @08:01AM (#23636891) Homepage

        Bear in mind that the USA is run by and for big business, not the 'consumers'. Politicians rely on "campaign contributions" to fund their business-class lifestyles, and when they've blown through that money, there are plenty of "lobbyists" ready to pay for access to them. The mind blowing costs of running a political campaign practically assures that most victorious politicians are corrupt.

        While the breaking up of the old AT&T was a pretense that a telco monopoly wouldn't be tolerated, it just resulted in regional monopolies instead, and the eventual result was that the "Baby Bells" just re-merged into three companies that now form an effective cartel.

      • by notabaggins (1099403) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @08:18AM (#23637063)

        I cannot understand how the country where the internet was born is going this way ...
        Looks like there is either no competition, or no incentive to upgrade the network.
        Competition is so 20th century. In the Bush era, we've learned that the purpose of government is to give corporations whatever they want.

        This has boosted us to the dizzying heights of... 16th in broadband penetration in the industrialized world.

        And falling.

        Back in the 90s, the telecom companies swore up and down if we just deregulated them and gave them all kinds of tax incentives, they'd wire the country like crazy. Actually promised us--get this--45 meg symmetric, not just download, to 80% of US households by (wait for it)...

        2006

        Of course, the deal was meant to be enforced by the FCC which under Bush said, "Whatever you want, we're taking a nap."

        So we end up with situations like the one I'm in. I live in a small town outside the capitol of Texas where folks fleeing the city have been moving for some years so they could have an actual tree in their yard but it's not too long a commute into the city.

        Fastest growing county in the entire state. Tons of people from the city with jobs and money. What's AT&T (or whatever they're calling themselves this week) done about DSL?

        Nothing. Flat out nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Not a single upgrade to the CO in years, no build out, nothing.

        It doesn't even make good business sense. But, there it is.

        They do, however, spend tons on advertising. My landline is with them so every couple of months, I get marketed at about DSL. It's great! It's wonderful! It's fast! Get it! Get it now!

        I always say, "Sure! Sign me up!"

        The marketeer happily tippy taps his keyboard then slows down and finally says, "Um... you can't get DSL."

        "No, really? Gee, maybe you ought to freaking think about building out in the, you know, fastest growing county in the entire blasted state BEFORE you call me again."

        (slam phone)

        Yeah, it's petty. But it makes me feel better.

        • by BBandCMKRNL (1061768) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @08:52AM (#23637503)
          Ah yes, AT&T. I'll keep this short :-)
          I've been waiting for AT&T Uverse to become available in my neighborhood to provide some competition to Time/Warner. I got a flyer in the mail saying that Uverse was was now available to me. I logged onto the web site and tried to order it. It took me several tries to actually place an order because I followed the instructions that said that my driver's license expiration date had to be entered in mmyyyy format. The day before the install date, I had to reschedule due to a sick family member. No problem, the new installation date was verbally confirmed with me by the CSR on the phone. On the day of the install, I waited and waited. 30 minutes after the close of the 2 hour installation window, I called and was informed that I was scheduled for installation the NEXT day. The next day the install tech comes out and asks to look in my back yard. No problem. I've got both the cable and phone boxes in my yard for about 6 houses in my neighborhood. While the tech is standing there looking somewhat confused, I say, "If your looking for the network interface, there insn't one. We've never had a landline at this address." The tech then tells me that a different tech has to install the network interface and run the drop to it and asks if they could reschedule the install for Monday. I say that's fine, but Monday is a holiday, and asked if they really did installations on holidays. The tech said yes and told me that someone would be by after 19:00 that day to install the network interface and run the drop.

          No tech shows up that day to install the network interface and run the drop, so the first thing Monday morning, I call AT&T and tell them that it wasn't installed and asked if it would be installed prior to the tech arriving to do the install. I was informed that they didn't do installs on holidays and they rescheduled my install for the next day and assured me that both the install tech would be there and the person to do the network interface installation and run the drop.

          The next day, the install tech showed up and I asked him where the other tech was who was going to do the network interface installation and run the drop. He got a funny look on his face and went outside to make a phone call. He returned and said that the other tech was on the way. While we waited for the other tech, I showed im the 2 TVs that needed set top boxes and where I wanted their router installed to connect into my network wiring. The other tech arrived and they started working. About 15 minutes later, they had the network interface installed and the drop run and then things got REAL quiet for about 15 minutes and suddenly a third AT&T person showed up. It turns out that Uverse has a max length of 3,000 feet from their box in the subdivision to the house and we were 3,400 feet away.

          Our subdivision is less than 5 years old, so I asked who decided to lay out their cable in such a manner that almost everyone on my street would be unable to have Uverse service and they admitted it was one of their engineers.

          So, the end result is that most of the people on my street in the subdivision can't have Uverse service and AT&T spent who knows how much money figuring it out. Oh, and I'm still getting solicitations for Uverse. Maybe I should order it again. Maybe I should order it every time I get a solicitation until they stop sending me solicitations.
      • by mrbluze (1034940) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:18AM (#23636543) Journal

        I also download the occasional Linux distro, and a Fedora or Windows update can be over 200 MB

        In Australia the plans are usually for bandwidth/month, so you pay according to line speed, GB/month etc, but it's fairly uncommon (except for wireless broadband) to be charged for excess usage (they just drop the speed to something painful like 64kbps).

        Many of the ISP's have unmetered content, such as local mirrors for major linux distro's, file repositories and some entertainment related stuff. So, for example, all the Ubuntu updates for our computers are not metered - in some circumstances that's VERY useful (eg: an office with 10 computers).

        But Australia's internet is a horrible state of affairs generally - just putting in our experience here FWIW.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          Some Australian ISP's used to let users elect to have either the painful throttling you describe, or to be charged extra for excess usage. These days most (all?) just do the throttling - most likely to try to get users to upgrade to more expensive plans. I'm currently on 64k thanks to exceeding my allowance for the month, and 'painful' barely describes it. I'd happily pay $10 extra for another few more GB this month, but certainly don't want to lock myself into a higher plan, as most months I won't be using
        • by Moryath (553296) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @08:36AM (#23637273)
          It's "may the fleas of a thousand camels infest their genitals."

          The underlying problem is just as you described though - unless they come up with a DAMN GOOD tool to show you how much bandwidth you've used, how will the normal consumer know? Any app that phones home uses bandwidth. Updating your virus scanner or patching your OS (doesn't matter windows, mac, or linux) uses bandwidth. Xbox360, Wii, PS3 all use bandwidth. Instant messaging uses bandwidth.

          Only a VERY select few people actually know how much bandwidth each of these uses. Training your average user to use something like Freemeter [lifehacker.com] is going to be pretty tough, and even then, that only covers their PC. It still misses the rest of whatever network devices you may have.

          Setting a cap up is a grab to try to stick people with extra fees, nothing more. Welcome to the U$A, home of the hidden fee - now bend over, spread the cheeks, and take it.
          • by xaxa (988988) <slashdotNO@SPAMsymbiote.eu> on Tuesday June 03 2008, @09:42AM (#23638321) Homepage
            My parents' ISP has a monthly cap (60GB, or 30GB, or something like that). On the ISP's page there's a usage graph. It says things like "your predicted usage for this month is 8GB".

            It's less easy to see who or what is using the bandwidth though.
            • by Moryath (553296) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @10:33AM (#23639063)
              starts at the very beginning.

              The fact of the matter is that bandwidth is a scarce good (in an economic sense; we have quite a lot of it actually, but not enough to serve everyone at high usage).

              Actually, most people have no effing clue what bandwidth really is. You prove how clueless you are by calling it a "scare good."

              So how de we ensure that bandwidth can be apportioned fairly across users?

              Bandwidth is not a commodity as such. Unlike most commodities, it cannot be stored for future use. It is entirely a function of the momentary capability of the attached routing system. It's much like telephone systems in that regard; there are only a certain amount of circuits ("lines") that a particular neighborhood or area can have active at a given time.

              We can make sure that people pay for the bandwidth they use, by metered sale or by tiered pricing.

              And here is where it gets stupid. If you sell someone "X GB/month", then people will STILL get fucked over when they try to use the "bandwidth" (actually, absurd data capacity) they bought during a time when others are doing the same. Tiered plans are in place NOW for most providers, and the companies are lying to us about what they sold anyways - the "up to X kbits/second" tier usually isn't even doing as well as the next tier below.

              And this says nothing of the off-period times when most sane people are at work or asleep. You're charging people the same price for the "scarce" times (similar to the daytime cell rates) as for the rates when the routers are just sitting more or less idle.

              This is where the crackheads in corporate accounting offices and management start drooling - they can set up a complicated pricing scheme that the normal consumer barely understands, and get away with tagging in all sorts of hidden fees. I for one think the companies should be held responsible for upgrading their network and fulfilling the service they contracted for rather than trying to wiggle out of it after they overbooked.
      • by IndustrialComplex (975015) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:55AM (#23636829)
        Well, they still have to prove that the traffic you were sending is traffic you wanted to send. They can't charge you for zombie traffic when your machine got infected from other machines on their own network

        No, they don't have to prove anything of the sort. All they have to do is point to their TOS and the clause that is likely already there today stating that YOU are responsible for all data coming from your computer, legitimate or otherwise.
        • by uncqual (836337) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @08:59AM (#23637623)
          But what about unsolicited traffic directed towards my setup?

          I can't stop someone from sending me UDP traffic - sure, my router will just drop it into the bit bucket, but from my ISP's standpoint it would still count as "download" bytes for the purposes of determining if I've exceeded my cap and cost me money.

          Not sure how one would profit from screwing me this way... Perhaps just the same human trait that motivates random vandalism would be sufficient. Perhaps the fact that I followed the "hate Hillary" link in a troll post but didn't follow the "hate Obama" link in the same post would be sufficient.
      • by BVis (267028) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @08:06AM (#23636957)
        They can and SHOULD charge you for zombie traffic. Matter of fact, they should charge you double for it once they notify you of said traffic coming from your setup.

        Actually, a better solution would be to redirect all your web requests to a 'this is how to fix it' page until the traffic isn't coming from your setup any more. I'm sure someone is about to complain about how their grandma can't understand what that means and she just wants to see pictures of her grandkids.. cry me a river. Zombified systems are a threat to everyone on the network.
        • by raddan (519638) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @10:34AM (#23639071)
          I attended a presentation once where one of the admins (Bob Beck) at UAlberta [ualberta.ca] showed off his pf [openbsd.org]-based system to yank DHCP leases from machines that met their criteria for zombie traffic (typically a sudden blast of SMTP traffic). Actually, I think it was a little more complicated than that, but the end result is that desktops are redirected to a "You are zombied, contact the IT department" webpage. Pretty cool.
      • by mckorr (1274964) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @08:32AM (#23637225)
        I live in Texas and use Time-Warner. They don't charge you for zombie traffic, they disconnect you.

        My WinXP (kept for gaming only, Linux for everything else) got infected with a spambot (hazards of having children), and I came home one day to find my service shut off. Several hours of calling around to various departments later they informed me that I would have to get my computer "professionally cleaned" before they would reconnect me. Like the "professionals" wouldn't do exactly the same things I did to fix the problem. A bit of social engineering, and accusing them of scanning my system without permission (they didn't, they were monitoring the quantity of outgoing emails) and I convinced them to turn it back on.

        That being said, the US is horribly backwards in telcom because they corps know the average citizen has no idea how much they are being screwed. Paying for cell minutes and long distance, when it costs the company no more to route my call across the country than it does to the house next door? And now extra for bandwidth, when only 5% of their customers are using anywhere near the max? [quote from the radio on the way to work this morning]

        If Time-Warner tries to implement this in my area, I'm finding another provider. I really don't feel like explaining to my son that he can't play Xbox Live because we "went over our minutes".

        It's time Americans woke up and insisted that we stop being ripped off. Flat rates for phone service, flat rates for internet, and at reasonable prices. Either that, or stop claiming we are "more technologically advanced" than the rest of the world, because nonsense like this is proving on a daily basis that we are being left behind.

  • About time too (Score:5, Insightful)

    by samael (12612) * <Andrew@Ducker.org.uk> on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:09AM (#23636457) Homepage
    Let's have some honesty here. If we're going to have limits then let them be clear and open ones, where customers can make decisions about which limits they want, and how much they're prepared to pay for them.

    Far better this approach than one which says "Eat what you like, so long as you're reasonable."
  • Cool (Score:4, Interesting)

    by arivanov (12034) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:12AM (#23636481) Homepage
    This is much better than the current large telco pactice of throwing people off the network or throttling them. Make people pay for the capacity they use and let economics sort it out.
    As a matter of fact most small ISPs around EU have been running this as a standard practice for ages with a considerable degree of success The approach is either a tiered system like this or a system where if you exceed your monthly quota your traffic gets the lowest possible priority on the network. There are also various variations on this using daily peak periods and so on. In any case, while introducing them at first has always caused a few grumbles on the overall, the users like them. As a result the network is not hogged by 5% who pay the same as the remaining 95% while using 99% of the capacity.
  • by bogidu (300637) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:12AM (#23636483)
    I could have swore we already fought this battle. As I recall, my first internet provider in 92 had caps and limits and due to popular demand eventually even the mighty AOL dropped them. Do the people that run these large corporations not understand Internet history??
  • by should_be_linear (779431) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:15AM (#23636509)
    Providers of pay-per-GB-transferred internet exists since forever, at least here in Europe and especially for mobile access. It was never popular among users and never will be, because people don't like to think about amount of data transferred all the time. Plus, there are programs like Skype and Windows malware that transfer data all the time when computer is on. However, 40GB cap sounds much more reasonable then anything I saw here ...
  • by Saffaya (702234) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:18AM (#23636529)
    Having capped internet access in any developped country in 2008 is a shame.
  • Time-Warner Sued By A Bazillion Customers Over Bandwidth Charges

    $slashdot_user writes: "Time-Warner today was served with a class-action lawsuit from nearly every single subscriber to its metered internet service, launched in June. The suit claims that Time-Warner willingly and complicitly installed spyware onto its subscribers' computers to run up bandwidth charges. The program, which affected primarily Windows-based computers, repeatedly downloaded and uploaded a 1.5 MB file of random, uncompressable data up to a thousand times per hour each way, causing subscribers' caps of 5 GB to be reached within hours. Further GB of bandwidth was charged at $1 each, with some subscribers receiving 'overage' bills stretching upwards of $700. Representatives for Time-Warner were unavailable for comment." .....seriously, I don't think TWC would be stupid enough to deliberately install spyware on its subscribers' computers, but this will fail as soon as hundreds of thousands of clueless Windows users running zombie botnet boxes start cancelling their service en masse "because they jacked up the price". This is not the way to either fix broadband usage policy nor to stop botnets.
  • Here it comes (Score:3, Insightful)

    by troll -1 (956834) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:25AM (#23636597)
    I guess we got lucky with the Internet in a way. It was designed and developed in large part, not by private companies, but by scientists and engineers in a peer-reviewed academic environment who were mostly employed by the government. Profit was not their goal.

    What Time-Warner is doing probably has less to do with consumption and more to do with figuring out a way to nickel and dime you for every trivial service they can think of. First it'll be quotas, then they'll be a BitTorrent surcharge, then there'll be a 'speed-up' charge for port X. Before you know it your ISP bill will look like your phone bill.

  • by WarwickRyan (780794) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:25AM (#23636603)
    With those low caps it can be nothing else. Make the internet so expensive that no-one can complete with your multimedia sales (cable, dvd, music).

    With the added 'benefit' of them being able to effectively gouge movie downloaders.
  • Cancel (Score:5, Insightful)

    by snarfies (115214) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:27AM (#23636625) Homepage
    Cancel your service immediately. Please. Its the only way to let them know that you don't accept their new terms. Stop the experiment in Beaumont.
  • by kiehlster (844523) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:47AM (#23636747) Homepage
    I'm paying $90/month for a dedicated server, 24/7 amazing tech support and 1.2TB bandwidth per month. How is $60/month for no dedicated server, crappy tech support and 40GB/month (0.04TB) any where near a reasonable offer?
  • by goodmanj (234846) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:47AM (#23636755)
    I've got no problem with heavy users paying more, light users paying less. But $1/gigabyte is so far in excess of the "going rate" for bandwidth that it's not even funny.

    For instance, my current web hosting provider [dreamhost.com] offers me 5 TERAbytes of transfer for six bucks a month. Now, it's possible they'd try to change the terms of the deal if I actually approached that level of usage, but still, it shows the cable company in TFA is charging more by roughly a factor of 1000.

    I'm guessing that Dreamhost probably serves up roughly as many bytes as a cable company does in a large town or small city. Now, I totally agree that providing internet access to a bunch of houses spread out over square miles is going to cost more than providing it to a couple rows of rackmounted servers. But that's a *fixed* cost to provide access, regardless of bandwidth usage.

    I'm okay with charging more for using more, but this is so out of proportion it's simply highway robbery.
  • Holding out on us (Score:5, Informative)

    by stewbacca (1033764) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:53AM (#23636817)
    I talked to a TimeWarner rep when I lived in San Antonio last summer and he told me that they've had the infrastructure for 15mbps connections in place for a year or two, but cap the speeds between 5-10 on purpose. The "purpose", I see now, is that they want to try and milk every penny out of us for something that wouldn't cost them any more to deliver. I imagine it actually costs them money to cap our bandwidth anyway, so this is pretty dumb...especially now that I live in a market with another major provider (AT&T) for competition.
  • by anerki (169995) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:54AM (#23636825)
    The same situation has been present in Belgium ever since cable and *DSL made the market. There is simply no choice to get an ISP that doesn't limit your monthly bandwidth usage.

    Recently however, a new company surfaced offering low prices (30 euros / month) for a 100 Gb / month limit and a normal price (50 euros / month) for an unlimited connection. This new ISP is limited to a very small region in Belgium though, the services they offer outside their home city is similar to the other ISP's (more max download/upload, less speed).

    There is however no throttling, an almost 100% uptime (varying on location of course, but if you live anywhere near a city you can expect uptime of 100% ... Me I've never had my internet go down, and when I do play a game I tend to get a ping between 20-25 so it's all about what's important to you I guess.

    Most ISP's offer a nighttime discount too. Everything you download/upload between midnight and 10 AM only goes half towards the download limit.

    Also, the default option if you cross your limit is not to make you pay extra per Gb, but to put you on "smallband" which is (if I remember correctly) 64Kbit Up/Down. In other words: hell compared to the 20Mbit / 2Mbit (Down/Up) we usually get. You can change that default option to paying extra for Gbs of course ...

    Also I'd like to point out that Belgium is the only country in Europe where there is no viable option to choose for an ISP without transfer limit.
  • by dpbsmith (263124) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @08:00AM (#23636875) Homepage
    Oh, misery. Been there, done that, got the phone bill. Let's hope this trial balloon blows up like the Hindenburg before anyone else gets any ideas.

    I remember the bad old days of Compu$erve Information $ervices when the clock was ticking at, if I recall correctly, $6.00 an hour... and much more than that if you entered some of their "premium" services.

    Plus, if you lived in Roysburg, Winnemac, their list of dialup telephone numbers might helpfully list one under "Roysburg" while not bothering to mention that the actual physical location of their modem was in the city of Zenith, fifteen miles and a local toll call away. So you were also racking up a hefty phone bill at the same time.

    People may hate AOL now, but when they came charging in with a flat monthly rate they looked like knights in shining armor.

    And at least with CI$ the clock was ticking at a steady rate. With the Time Warner plan, in a million households little Genevieve will run across some funny and age-appropriate penguin cartoon website and watch it for weeks, and neither her nor her folks will have any idea it cost them $82.19 until the bill comes in at the end of the month.

    The funny thing is that the trend is toward flat pricing everywhere else. It seems odd to read that the genius at Time Warner are moving away from flat-rate pricing at exactly the same time as the cell phone companies are moving toward it?

  • by tonyray (215820) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @08:01AM (#23636889)
    I did a little math:

    1 megabit-month = 3600 sec per hr * 24 hrs * 30 days / 8 bits per byte = 324 gigabytes

    I pay $20 per megabit-month on an OC-3., so that is a 1600% markup! Well, if the drug companies can do it, why not ISP's :P Actually, networks don't run at full capacity 100% of the time and accounting/billing would become more expensive, so 1600% is an obvious exaggeration.

    Senate Bill 215 (Obama is a sponser) would prevent ISP's from interfering with content upload or download except in times of network congestion. This could lead to a 50% reduction in revenues since ISP's charge for uploading content such as webpages. The bill will also force them to buy ever increasing amounts of bandwidth at the same time, raising their expenses at the same time their revenue is decreasing. The bill will likely pass if it emerges from commitee. So IMHO, Time-Warner and other ISP's are testing the most likely economic model left to them should SB 215 pass.

    If someone were to break this off as a separate topic, it would be interesting to see if /.ers have a better idea than Time-Warner and other ISP's as to how they should charge to pay the cost of Net Neutrality.

  • Biting the hand (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Alzheimers (467217) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @08:33AM (#23637231)
    The whole point of broadband is to give everyone access to content on the internet quickly and cheaply. If you strictly meter the service, you basically eliminate the purpose of broadband in the first place.

    Multimedia distributers such as Youtube, Netflix and iTunes and media rich social networking sites like LJ and Facebook are the reasons why demand for Broadband service is so strong to begin with. Tell people they can only use these services a little bit before being charged out the wazoo, and you've killed the whole point of the internet.

    This might hurt the technophile and the hardcore online junky, but for Ma & Pa who only check their email once a week and occasionally watch videos of their grandkids learning to walk, PeoplePC is only $9.99 a month.
  • "Unused minutes"? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MBGMorden (803437) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @08:40AM (#23637323)
    I wonder if they'd to "rollover" bandwidth?

    Afterall, if they want to get snobbish about counting, it should work both ways. If I'm paying for 40GB and I only use 15GB one month, I still want my other 25GB rolled into a reservoir that I can use the next month.

    Truthfully though, this is a stupid idea. Part of the beauty of the Internet is flat rate. If one starts having a limited pool (which is totally an artificial limitation), then everything starts becoming an "is it worth it to download" scenario. Should I give this new Ubuntu Linux distro a try? I dunno. That's almost a gig of my quota and Slackware works fine. Should I use Gentoo? I dunno source code downloads are going to be larger than binaries. Should I even bother patching my Windows machine. I dunno that's 500MB of quota and it'll probably be fine if I install a firewall. Should I run TOR? No I don't know how much traffic would be routed through my machine.

    Essentially this throws in giant anvil in front of the train that was the Internet. Instead of it becoming more ubiquitous, and more seamlessly integrated into our lives as a way for everything to talk to everything else, it's further segregating the internet into something that you "visit" and limit your usage of, rather than something that you simply participate in.
  • End of VOIP (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @02:13PM (#23642243) Homepage Journal
    For starters. No more Itunes, netflix, casual shopping...

    I would be canceling my service if i got that sort of garbage.
    • Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)

      by magamiako1 (1026318) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:17AM (#23636521)
      Not necessarily. It's not easier to argue that it's your bandwidth, because it's not. It's still their bandwidth, and they will still want to QoS it however they please.

      Metering the bandwidth has little to do with them wanting to finance new infrastructure and a whole lot more to do with new ways to extract more revenue from their existing customer base. I mean, once you lock someone into a $150/month package deal of internet service, you can only do so much more to get money from them.

      So this is how they're going to do it. Beyond this, they will still look at providing "premium" service rates for quality of service assurances.

      Not to mention they will still QoS competitive products down. This will stifle innovation, as companies such as Netflix, who want to start online delivery, will now not be able to be as successful. Your freedom of choice to choose who you get content from is now limited to precisely your cable company because guess what? They aren't going to be metering your cable TV as part of the internet service.
    • Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)

      by BitZtream (692029) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:59AM (#23636867)
      Which cable company do you work for?

      ISPs and telecoms are greedy bastards calling Google and the like 'Freeloaders' for absolutely no reason. They pay for bandwidth the exact same way everyone else does. Time Warner and the like have practically 0% of their cost of business in the infrastructure once its built. You're on slashdot, we've discussed this on god knows how many occasions and anyone with the technical knowledge of building such an infrastructure and providing the bandwidth they provide for the price the provide knows how ridiculous their profit is. Don't try to pull this bullshit and expect not to be called on it.

      Metered bandwidth is retarded. The lines are there, they dont' cost any more when they get used versus when they don't. The charge is artificial. They have oversold their external links and aren't upgrading. Have you paid attention to their quarterly reports and notice the ridiculous amount of profit they turn or are you just oblivious to that part of the equation?

      There is no such thing as freeloading when buying bandwidth, so just cut that crap out. We all pay for our portion of the bandwidth we use, thats the way it works in shared networks. I pay my upstream for service, they are either a NAP or they pay their upstream and for their interconnects to others. Explain how its somehow different for the telecos than it is for google?

      > There simply is not enough infrastructure to allow everyone to consume whatever they want, whenever they want, without making them pay for it.

      First off, they should have considered that before they sold it to us, not my problem they can't provide what they said they would.
      Second, telephone service in land lines has been unmetered for local service for decades. Cell phones don't charge extra for long distance any more, any metered charge is an artificial charge added because people are willing to pay it, not because it costs them 'extra'. Carriers typically have recipical agreements so its not like they charge each other for long distance anyway. Backbone providers do this as well.
      Third, I've had plenty of bandwidth on my cable modem for the last 8 years. Unmetered. That is freedom. Charging extra and having limits is not freedom. I'm amazed that you even considered making such statement. Do you also believe warrentless wiretaps and being held without reason as a terrorism suspect is freedom? So now that they need to perform upgrades to compete with FiOS and the like, now they don't have enough bandwidth? Why is it that Time Warner has just bumped up residential service from 5mb/s to 7mb/s for standard service, and 7 to 10 for their 'turbo' customers, but they can't keep up with those people who use it without limiting them? Do you not see the wool being pulled over your eyes?

      Perhaps they should fix their 'overloaded' backbone rather than sell more bandwidth that they claim they don't have and it costs too much to build out.

      Perhaps they should implement fair queuing across the board rather than pick on specific protocols to control. If I'm using 10mb/s of my 10mb/s 'always on, unlimited' bandwidth, and someone else wants 10mb/s on theirs, and they can't provide it or figure out how to fairly share the bandwidth, they shouldnt' be in business. I was doing that at the ISP I worked at in 1996, without considering anything above layer 2, was there implosion in technology that suddenly caused this ability to be lost? I'm pretty sure that if they can provide machines capable of doing deep packet inspection, they can probably come up with a box or two that is capable of doing fair queuing at layer 2, don't you think? They can also probably spend a little bit of cash on network infrastructure.

      I ask you again, which cable company do you work for?
    • Re:Good (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Guysmiley777 (880063) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @09:23AM (#23637997)
      You severely underestimate large corporations ability to talk (and bill) out of both sides of their mouthpieces. When you have the people who write laws in your pocket, you get to make the laws.
    • Re:VOD? (Score:5, Informative)

      by bishiraver (707931) on Tuesday June 03 2008, @07:57AM (#23636849) Homepage

      At least (for now) most people have several ISP's to choose from.
      Bzzt. Wrong. Most areas have local-government-mandated sole cable ISPs. Ie, this neighborhood is given to TWC, this neighborhood is given to Cablevision, this neighborhood is given to comcast. Sometimes it's more like towns instead of neighborhoods, but the concept remains the same. Your basic choice is: Cable for decent speeds, DSL for shitty speeds. And if you're very, very lucky you can opt for FiOS.