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Wikileaks Gets Hold of Counterinsurgency Manual
Posted by
kdawson
on Wed Jun 18, 2008 07:06 AM
from the what-we-learned-in-central-america dept.
from the what-we-learned-in-central-america dept.
HeavensBlade23 writes in to let us know that Wikileaks has published a US Special Forces counterinsurgency manual, titled Foreign Internal Defense Tactics Techniques and Procedures for Special Forces (1994, 2004). "The document, which has been verified, is official US Special Forces doctrine. It directly advocates training paramilitaries, pervasive surveillance, censorship, press control and restrictions on labor unions & political parties. It directly advocates warrantless searches, detainment without charge and the suspension of habeas corpus. It directly advocates bribery, employing terrorists, false flag operations and concealing human rights abuses from journalists. And it directly advocates the extensive use of 'psychological operations' (propaganda) to make these and other 'population & resource control' measures more palatable."
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Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, where are the true believers now? Does anyone seriously think that western governments have any kind of moral credibility?
We wag our fingers at China for their actions in Tibet, but by any measure what they have done there is far more humane than what we have done in Iraq. We lecture Russia about corruption and they simply retort with examples of western corruption.
Who actually believes that our governments have any reason to exist anymore beyond their existence itself?
Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Insightful)
Otherwise I couldn't agree more, it just sems to be a bunch of rich, cantankerous old killjoys at the top of each country, making up reasons to kill people that are under the influence of another bunch of rich old bastards.
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Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Interesting)
Here in Australia our labor government (and before that, to a lesser extend, the liberal government) can sure be incompetent, but as much as I dislike Rudd he's probably not evil.
He supported the Iraq war in 2003 and now blames Howard for it of course, but he (just like the majority of people) thought it was necessary at the time.
No point mistaking bad intelligence and unquestioning politicians for malice.
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Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Informative)
Bad intelligence is when Achmed is giving you information, but he is actually secretly working for the Taliban. Cooked intelligence is when there is no Achmed, and the information you supposedly got from him was actually created by the Office of Special Plans [guardian.co.uk] out of whole cloth. Basically, black propaganda aimed at your own populace.
Bad intellegence can be incompetence (or it can just mean the other side is better than you), but cooked intelligence is definitely malice.
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Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Interesting)
As a result of this reasoning, his take on the subject was that, for people to be able to accomplish anything better than having to live in an eternal struggle for today's food (where anyone can come and take from you what you made, no one bothers to produce anything, much less any surplus), the very first thing they need is a state strong enough to both make other states afraid of messing with them and to make the people under its umbrella afraid of messing with each other. Once you have this established, no matter how (and at this point a totalitarian tyranny is okay for him), you have peace enough for surplus production to develop. And once you have a functional society, then you can start pursuing other goals, such as, say, freedom of belief, freedom of speech, democracy, individual rights etc. (which, contrary to common belief, he pretty much preferred).
So, yes, arming one group of people and giving them a monopoly on violence is indeed the solution to interpersonal conflict. Even if it leads, in the worst case scenario, to the monopolist becoming an absolute totalitarian hereditary monarch and everyone else becoming his personal slaves, as in this case interpersonal conflicts are also few. But, and this is important, it's a solution only to interpersonal conflicts. Everything else requires, of course, much more than this.
A monopoly in violence, thus, is just the very first step required in solving human problems, as it solves our very first problem. But it's never the solution to all of our problems.
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Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Insightful)
Talk to the average north american, and you'll find out that there are many that would rank you with steretype of the crzzy-type 'conspiracy theorists'.
This is just more example of fascism plain and simple, when business tools government for it's own interests.
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Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Interesting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio [wikipedia.org]
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What's really scary... (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, doesn't anyone else find it ironic that those folks are supposed to be fighting for freedom and the American way?
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Re:What's really scary... (Score:5, Insightful)
I didn't realize that censorship, surveillance, union busting, and silencing political parties had become un-American; let me pull out the champagne, this calls for a celebration. Our government has been slowly but steadily stepping it up on all of the above fronts, but in countries like Iraq they just happen to have an advantage: there is no existing legal framework standing in the way, so they are free to re-create society in a manner that suits them.
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Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am going to read this in more detail, but right now it depresses me that counterinsurgency tactics have fallen so deeply into doing the "glamourous", "badass" stuff and ignoring the repercussions. Current lack of success in Afghanistan and Iraq should have been a wake-up call to how important treating the locals is, how accepting moral limits can reap tactical benefits later on.
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Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey, aren't y'all a bunch of hired killers? Of course they're evil manipulative bastards, that's their job. You didn't really think they were there to spread democracy and peace did you?
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Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Insightful)
Any resemblance is purely coincidental.
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Re:Did any of this need to be confirmed? (Score:5, Insightful)
We lost 3000 souls on 9/11. Yet we've lost nearly 5000 in Iraq. Meanwhile, we steadily lose 50,000/year to drunk driving, another several thousand to those fools driving while talking on their phones. The numbers simply don't support a War on Terror no matter how you juggle them. This war of abstraction is, in fact, a Campaign of Terror to frighten our citizenry into submission in order keep the current military-industrial complex in power. It is as shameless as it is sickening, and the perpetrators leading the charade should be behind bars instead of in the White House.
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Now that everything that everybody already knew .. (Score:5, Insightful)
I thought the plan was to export democracy, free speech, human rights and other such goodies
in the end (Score:5, Insightful)
Figures. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Figures. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Absolutely (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh you just cannot take this stuff seriously any more.
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Re:Figures. (Score:5, Insightful)
I can see why it might be a shock to some that this document got out, but given that it's for Special Forces then it doesn't really surprise me. Why have your elite forces actually playing by the book when you can fight dirty, be more effective and just blank over it if you're ever asked? That's not to say I condone it, just that it seems like an obvious military tactic when you're working in smaller and elite teams.
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Is anyone actually shocked? (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't be this naive ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Even beyond the observation that the manual describes nothing but techniques used in war since the dawn of time, I'll observe that it is the insurgents who cynically hide behind an unarmed populace. They make the fundamental decision to deliberately cause civilian casualties when they refuse to abide by the Geneva Convention and fight in uniform, away from civilian population centers.
A uniformed military must counter the insurgents in some way; would you prefer that we burn down the house to kill the bed bugs? What do you suggest? Asking the insurgents nicely to go home? Take a long hard look at places like Somalia or the disaster in Bosnia and then tell me there are realistic options other than the judicious application of force.
Re:You can't be this naive ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not saying that Iraqi insurgents are anything like the French Resistance, but explain to me how you would draw the line justifying what happened in WWII and what's going on now.
As far as I can tell, it's simply whoever survives and tells their story that becomes the hero.
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In other words (Score:5, Insightful)
Insurgencies/counterinsurgencies are a fight over the support of a population. The notion, which is implied in the summary, that wars can be fought in an environment devoid of the infrastructure of law and order with an attention to civil niceties that peacetime domestic civilian police forces can't live up to is ridiculous. The population will realize that your side is hamstringing itself while the other side has no such qualms and choose sides accordingly. That is what happened in Iraq for the first year or so of the Iraq insurgency - domestic Sunni and foreign jihadist groups terrorized the population whenever the American flag wasn't around, while the American occupation went around promising new water plants and soccer parks. No wonder the American intelligence gathering efforts were so effective back then - new soccer park vs. we will kill you and every member of your family if you cooperate.
One important detail (Score:5, Insightful)
So this is not quite "war". This is "we don't like you, so we'll send our guys to blow up your infrastructure". When we do it to "them", we're aiding democracy. When 'they' do it to 'us', it's called terrorism.
Fellows, I'm all for cynicism in war. Most people really don't get the extremes that become routine in real war. But I repeat - this manual will never actually be used in "war". It'll be used against whoever Uncle Sam says is the "enemy"; I think we all know how well that's worked out. (cf Saddam in 1983 vs. 1991, Shah of Iran in 1953 vs 1971, etc..)
Obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Chapter 23: Recruiting The Locals
Chapter 1: Know What The Enemy Is Up To
Chapter 15: Maintaining Classified Data
Chapter 15: Maintaining Classified Data
Chapter 8: Building A New Government (new since Iraq mission)
Chapter 2: The Element Of Surprise
Chapter 3: Getting The Locals On Your Side
Honestly, WTF would you think would be in an operations manual? This is standard stuff for every army in the world. I mean, warrantless searches? My mind boggles that anyone would ever suspect otherwise.
Does anyone... (Score:5, Insightful)
Clean up after your war crimes... (Score:5, Funny)
What we learned about running death squads... (Score:5, Informative)
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:War is hell. (Score:5, Insightful)
When we go over there to bring them freedom, we can do whatever the fuck we like because we're the "good guys", right?
Whilst i can see some justification for some of these techniques in an actual war of defence against an aggressive power, you know this shit's going on in our wars of adventure and speculation too.
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Re:War is hell. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:War is hell. (Score:5, Insightful)
You aren't fighting a war to be nice. You are fighting to win and to do so you need to do whatever it takes.
How can you win when you don't even have a "proper" war to begin with? There is no end to this "war" (and insurgencies) because it was never begun and the objectives were never clearly identified.
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once again (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:War is fun! (Score:5, Funny)
Jools, Jops and Stoo, for a start. War has never been so much fun!
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Re:War is fun! (Score:5, Interesting)
( http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1333111120080313 [reuters.com] )
"I must say, I'm a little envious," Bush said. "If I were slightly younger and not employed here, I think it would be a fantastic experience to be on the front lines of helping this young democracy succeed."
"It must be exciting for you
What a shame he's otherwise "employed".
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Re:War is fun! (Score:5, Insightful)
-Erasmus
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Re:War is fun! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:War is fun! (Score:5, Insightful)
The local populace are still oppressed, they are still murdered and humiliated by various local and nonlocal groups including Al Qaeda and US armed forces.
So for whom is this so called freedom worth the price?
The difference between the current situation and the WW's are that in the WW's the US helped to liberate conquered nations where the populace was against their conquerors, in the current situation they are seen as the conquerors.
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Re:War is fun! (Score:5, Informative)
Cripes, Canada, with a population about 1/12th of the United States at that time, suffered HALF as many casualties (67k killed, 150k wounded)! By proportion to overall population, Canada contributed approximately 24x as much as the USA!
World War II began in 1939. The Battle of Britian was fought in 1940. The Americans, after A LOT of wembling about "other peoples' problems", finally joined the war in December of 1941 (having essentially sat-out half of the conflict).
The Shah of Iran was an American-backed dictator who essentially pillaged Iran and stayed in power by virtue of the CIA.
Similiarly, Saddam Hussein was enabled by support from the American military-industrial complex, as well as the CIA and the DoD. They armed him, paid him, and supported him because he was happy to throw hapless Iraqis lives at Iran on behalf of the ole' US-of-A.
Given these things, I'm having trouble finding a basis for the self-righteous tone of your message (other than just being completely blind to history, and having swallowed the current propaganda hook-line-and-sinker...)
-AC
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Big Deal!!! Counterinsurgency Manual not new. (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:War is fun! (Score:5, Insightful)
The ludicous screed that heads the article might be considered a parody of itself. The manual that then follows is no worse than say Machievelli's "The Prince". or more apropos Sun Tzu "the art of war".
Armies are SUpposed to plan and supposed to control populations effectively, ideally inflicting the the least damage possible. Like Jujitsu, it's about knowing the pressure points to move the whole body.
Fuck, it's their freakin' job.
Folks it's not immoral to plan for war. it may be immoral to go to war, but in the USA that's a civil sector choice not a military choice.
On a similar tack. I't not immoral to equip our soldiers with the best weapons possible. If the Country decides through its political leadership to put soldiers in harms way then they should be equipt to be as effective as they possibly can. The immorailty of war comes when politicians send us to war or waste our treasure on unneccessary weapons.
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Re:War is fun! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:War is fun! (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:War is fun! (Score:5, Insightful)
The United States was meddling with internal affairs via the CIA pretty much from WW2 on. They installed and supported the "pro west" Shah of Iran, whose whoring of his country and people lead to the rise of the ayatollah's and the extremist element in that country.
They then gave Saddam Hussein their support in order that he should stand agains the "New" Iran, and then people from both of those countries got to experience the meat-grinder that is American Foreign Policy in the Middle East. They also didn't seem to care if he oppressed his own people, by whatever means, although after decades of his abuses, they then supported a Kurdish insurgency, but cut-off support to them just in time to let Saddam obliterate them.
Later they sent money, guns and tactical support to the Afghan rebels in order to help them overthrown the Russians, but then cut them loose to "wither on the vine" once the Russians left.
The Americans support repressive regimes in Kuwait, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia. They also supported Isreal against Palistinians who've become the Middle-Eastern gypsies as a result.
This is the record of American influence in this region, as ever with Americans, it's a story of doing whatever it takes to advance their interests, without thought, care or regard for how much it'll fuck-up anyone else... That's the basis for the resentment, anger and hatred the people of these regions have for Americans, and that's the environment that's "breeding terrorists". So please, PLEASE cite your references that this area was a Terrorist Breeding-ground "before America got involved"!
-AC
PS: I'm an atheist, and Canadian. I am NOT an Islamo-fascist, and I have no particular sympathies for any of the peoples I've described. I have no hidden agenda. I'm simply pointing out that a LOT of the troubles America is experiencing in the world right now can be seen as karmic chickens coming home to roost.
PPS: Weird confluence: my captcha is "killings"...
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Re:Compare to The Art of War (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Those sound like war tactics (Score:5, Insightful)
No, but if the overthrow [wikipedia.org] of the popularly elected democratic government [wikipedia.org] in Iran way back when is any indication, it does suggest that you can avoid wars by staying out of other people's business. Put another way, getting out of the habit of pissing people off might get you your own lollipop.
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Re:Those sound like war tactics (Score:5, Insightful)
That justifies any position in favor or opposed to anything from now until the end of time. And it automatically makes the other side wrong, regardless of anything -- because nothing they want to do will change what happened 60 years ago. And what if it happens again?
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