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Montreal's Public Bikes To Use Web, RFID, Solar
Posted by
kdawson
on Sun Jun 22, 2008 01:52 AM
from the all-the-green-words dept.
from the all-the-green-words dept.
Ian Lamont writes "Montreal is preparing to launch a Web- and RFID-enabled public bike system that allows residents and visitors to rent bicycles at special depots scattered throughout the city. Using a Web site, riders can check out a real-time inventory of available bicycles at the depot locations. At the depots, a solar-powered base station will process credit cards or member cards. The bike docks use RFID, and the system is supposedly easy to install and maintain. A pilot program will launch in September with four bike depots."
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power (Score:4, Interesting)
they should just have capacitors (or whatever) on/in the bikes that store up energy whenever brakes are used, then when the bike is returned, all the bikes all stored energy can be released back onto the grid, perhaps which could then be transfered as credit or whatever and give a discount for renting the bike.
heck, maybe if u ride enough you could make money by way of power generation
yes thats all probably ridiculous, but it's 3am so idfc lol
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
that is a pretty good idea but it seems like a real long extension cord might be better (and it is only 1 am here =p)
Re:power (Score:5, Informative)
KISS and Keep It Cheap.
Some of the biggest issues with public bikes is vandalism, people not returning the bikes or plain old carelessny. Attaching some probably expensive power generrator thingie to the bikes? Bad idea. At a time it was so bad here, they considered making it members only. Not that membership involved much more than basicly getting your personal card, but it'd ruin the use for tourists and such. In the end we didn't have to, but you call tell by the bike type what it's all about. Cheap, sturdy bike with no gears designed for moving in the flat city only, it's as stripped as it gets.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Cheap, sturdy bike with no gears designed for moving in the flat city only, it's as stripped as it gets.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Despite have a simple gear mechanism (I think it's this one [wikipedia.org], with 3 settings), the higher areas tend to have no bikes and the lower ones no empty spaces to leave them.
However, the bikes are distributed regularly using vans.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
To be honest, they have introduced a credit system. Whenever you leave a bike on an uphill depot, you get credited of 15 unmetered minutes for this rental, or any further one. This works only for year-long subscribers, not daily tickets.
The mini-trucks are gas powered, and "eco friendly". Supposedly.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
They only get a few months.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:They only get a few months.. (Score:4, Funny)
Not for too long with global warming!
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:They only get a few months.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
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Re:They only get a few months.. (Score:4, Insightful)
the bicycle may not be the best means of transportation in the winter, particularly in Montreal.
They do indeed shovel the streets here, they shovel all the streets, but it still remains extremely slippery. It's quite a dangerous endeavour to ride bike in Wintertime, and only bike nuts and downtown bicycle couriers do it. Your wheels may suddenly just jerk sideways and completely slip away from under you, slamming you in the ground.
Besides, dangerous or not, riding a bike by minus 10, minus 20 is just very damn uncomfortable. At these temperatures, you already need to dress up considerably just to step outside. To ride a bike, you need double the insulation because of the wind, especially on your face and hands. And pedalling with winter boots on just isn't fun.
So, no. Montrealers in general don't bike in the Winter.
Parent
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Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
> It's quite a dangerous endeavour to ride bike
> in Wintertime. Your wheels may suddenly just
> jerk sideways and completely slip away from
> under you, slamming you in the ground.
I used to ride in Lincoln, Nebraska, when I was in college there. It's not quite as bad as much of Canada probably, but there was certainly snow, and I remember riding in traffic-and-salt-slush. It was a street/racing 14-speed too, not a mountain bike or the like. One just had to be rather more careful. You get used
Re: (Score:2)
Yes there exist studded bike tires, I used them this last winter for the first time ever but we got very little snow and cold so it was more annoying than helpful because it put up quite a lot more resistance.
I'd still prefer a trike recumbent :)
http://www.kmxus.com/models/venom/ [kmxus.com]
I'd prefer something with big wheels for speed, don't look very winter friendly but I guess you can change tires...
http://www.kmxus.com/models/typhoon/ [kmxus.com]
Cheaper one with smaller tires.
But there are lots of manufacturers, nothing speci
Re: (Score:2)
They do indeed shovel the streets here, they shovel all the streets, but it still remains extremely slippery. It's quite a dangerous endeavour to ride bike in Wintertime, and only bike nuts and downtown bicycle couriers do it. Your wheels may suddenly just jerk sideways and completely slip away from under you, slamming you in the ground.
Dress for the occation:
http://www.icebike.org/Equipment/nokian296.htm [icebike.org]
You NEED studded tires if you're going to bicycle on ice, bike nut or not. They're not expensive and will absolutely reduce the risk of having an accident.
Re: (Score:2)
As a nerd recumbent bikes intrest me, but as a Swede trikes intrest me even more, eventually.
I can't decide because I want a fast and technically advanced bike, but a trike would be so awesome during winters because yes, you may slide, but you're not very likely to tilt over and hurt yourself.
There are also some recumbent bikes with windshields as addons and I guess those may help a lot during cold winters if you don't want to freeze your nose.
A bunch of trikes can be seen here: http://home.mindspring.com/~ [mindspring.com]
Supply and Demand (Score:2)
By the way, someone mentioned that Montreal keeps its road plowed. That does not much matter, since a snow plow often makes the road slicker than leaving some powder snow alone. On the other hand, I do not believe that there are any logical objections to using bicycles that have walnut-shell or metal-studded tires.
Re: (Score:2)
Objections to using them? No. Reasons to think anyone doing it is fucking insane? Yes. Of course you have a screw loose to be biking on a busy non-residential street anyway- you're a vehicle weighing maybe 250 lbs, traveling with vehicles weighing half a ton, with limited maneuverability, lower speed, and balance issues. You're hard to see, increasing the likelihood of accidents. On top of that, you're going at half the speed of the cars, which in any type of traffic just pisses people off- and it c
Limited Mobility Users? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Limited Mobility Users? (Score:5, Insightful)
> What are people with limited mobility going to do with the bicycle?
"Limited mobility" doesn't mean "completely immobile". I, for example, have some orthopedic problems that make it really painful to walk further than about a mile or stand on my feet for more than an hour at a time. A bicycle would greatly extend my range by taking most of the strain off my feet.
(Of course, I don't really have anywhere to store one, and the hills around here are bastards, but that's a whole other subject...)
Parent
Re:Limited Mobility Users? (Score:4, Informative)
it's also possible the bicycles could be the three wheeled variety. I see them around these parts from time to time for people that can't stand for long periods of time. Usually a large basket on the front too so they can do minor shopping etc.
I was also very surprised to see TWO bikes in the last month being ridden by paraplegics. (no legs) The bikes look a bit like recumbents in that their seat is very close to the ground. The energy is supplied by a cam system on the handlebars, which moves back and forth in addition to twisting for steering. The forward and backward motion moves the bike. Those two had some serious muscle in their arms, and could easily keep pace with others. Beats the heck out of a wheelchair and is an uplifting sight to see on the bicycle trails.
Parent
Seems to work in Sweden... (Score:5, Informative)
We have had this [wikipedia.org] in sweden for a while now. It seems to be pretty successful. I have not used it, as i have my own bike, but i see a lot of people ridnig around on them.
Re:Seems to work in Sweden... (Score:5, Interesting)
Got them in Oslo, Norway [oslobysykkel.no] too.
I use them all the time, they make getting around town so easy.
The system here also has a realtime website with status of their 90ish depots/bikesheds. And if the one you are at is empty, then the screen lists the status of nearby depots.
There are some drawbacks with the free city bikes:
So I fully recommend them, it has made us get about town so much easier and quicker (and thus more often), but they are only useful if the depots are everywhere and stocked up.
Parent
Before you dismiss it.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Have you seen how successful the public bicycle system is in Paris? It's a generation older in terms of tech, but it continues to be a great success. Being able to simply grab (rent) a bike and ride the 15-20 blocks you might need to travel, doing this above ground in a physically exhilarating and liberating fashion (compared to a bus/metro/taxi)... this is all most excellent.
The geek criticism of this technology for its "privacy concerns" and for its "technological weak points" is probably all logically sound. But the very same people who are making these points are also very likely the most keyboard-bound (by habit) people. They are perhaps failing to see the practical gains here, in favor of racing to point out academic faults. To them I say:
Dude! If ever anyone needed a digital rent-a-bike to get you off your ass, it's you! Who do you think they are making this for? It's not the carousing moron with bad credit and too many kids. It's not Dr. MD-PhD who drives to his practice to check his schedule for next week. It's you, pal.
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Being able to simply grab (rent) a bike and ride the 15-20 blocks you might need to travel, doing this above ground in a physically exhilarating and liberating fashion (compared to a bus/metro/taxi)... this is all most excellent.
Ah, no thanks, especially considering the air pollution you get in a densely-populated city like Paris with all that automobile, truck and bus traffic. I'll wait until every vehicle on Paris streets are either Euro 6 emissions-compliant, run off natural gas, are hybrids/plug-in hybr
Air pollution and Vélib (Score:2, Insightful)
Ah, no thanks, especially considering the air pollution you get in a densely-populated city like Paris with all that automobile, truck and bus traffic. I'll wait until every vehicle on Paris streets are either Euro 6 emissions-compliant, run off natural gas, are hybrids/plug-in hybrids and/or all-electric.
Well, reducing traffic pollution is kind of the entire point of the Vélib system, isn't it ? I'd say bikes are Euro 6 emissions-compliant. And natural gas is a hazard in closed car parks, of which there are quite a few in the city.
Oh, and the buses are already going towards low-emission.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
From your post, I'm going to make the assumption that you've never been to Paris.
Whilst there is traffic in Paris, as with every city - not everyone owns a car.
Public transport is highly convenient, and heavily utilised.
Parking is expensive, petrol is hard to source in the city, and having a garage where you live is next to impossible.
Drivers are very conscientious of bicycles, and all in all, as per the parent poster, it's a really exhilirating and relaxing experience.
I'm awfully sorry that you've not had
Re:Before you dismiss it.... (Score:5, Informative)
It will be the 1 year anniversary of the Velib system in Paris in a few weeks time.
I was looking at the figures the other day - there are over 20,000 bikes now [100% more than when launched] - and 1,450 stations.
It seems to be a very mixed demographic that uses them - you'll see a lot of students, and a lot of older folk as well.
From my point of view, there definitely seem to be less tourists using them - it may catch on though.
The system, however, is fantastic. Most people over here don't have enough space to have their own bike, and being able to grab one to ride to a friend's house, or shorten a walk home, or simply take advantage of a sunny day, for 1 Euro - fantastic.
And, summer brings girls in sundresses onto bicycles!
Parent
Bicycles at Google (Score:2)
So they keep bicycles by each door. They're very inexpensive single-speed bikes, with flags on tall poles. They're cheap enough that they don't worry about them being stolen.
And no, I don't work there - I've visited a couple times.
Always remember... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:mmmmmk (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean, nobody who is about to commit a crime is going to make sure they aren't traced by stealing a bike or maybe using a false credit card or possibly thinking for three seconds before they commit the crime.
If it's a rental vehicle, it's no different from a taxi.
You can bet they will be tracking everyone with it, but so what?
Parent
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Taxis are usually cash transactions, at least in the US. I travel by taxi and I travel anonymously.
Unless they start putting facial recognition cameras in taxis.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Unless they start putting facial recognition cameras in taxis.
They don't have to. What you don't know is that the first thing the taxi drivers do, when they get your cash, is take your fingerprint off the cash (bills or coins, although admittedly, it's easier with coins), and they report those to FBI at the end of the day.
Have you ever touched a door handle? Then the Big Brother knows where you are, and, yes, he's watching you---if he needed a camera to know what you are doing, he wouldn't be the Big Brother.
Re:mmmmmk (Score:4, Insightful)
The thing about this tracking however, is that it's opt-in. If you don't like them knowing where you'll be taking their bike, don't rent one and get on the bus instead. Far less personal information traded with the bus, especially if you pay per ride in cash. But having other people using the bikes is just fine for the bus goers. It means the buses will be potentially less crowded.
Parent
Great plan to catch all the criminals! (Score:2)
Yes!, and then lock the doors on the bus and drive to the nearest prison! all the non-criminal will be on the bikes! wow! great plan!
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lol.
And then the terrorists suicide bombs the bus all they will do is to bomb themselves! Omg the precious virgins!
Re:mmmmmk (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:mmmmmk (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:mmmmmk (Score:5, Informative)
I'm sure the people in charge of this project in Montreal would have looked at examples from other cities where these systems already exist, and deemed this sort of protection necessary, there's no need to get all worked up about it being some huge conspiracy to track citizens around the city, after all, it's mostly used by people enjoying a quiet stroll around the city on a nice day, I doubt much confidential information can be extracted by tracking bikes driving through parks.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The system doesn't explicitly track the bikes, but knows on which station is each bike, or if it is in use, which user has it.
The most you could get is a database of points between which each user moves. For example, I mostly move between two stations: one next to the train station and one next to my working place.
The linking between the bike and the user is to enforce a maximum time of use, after which an ec
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Re:mmmmmk (Score:4, Funny)
I know! Next they'll make us put unique identifiers on our cars that can be automatically read from a distance! Where will the madness end?!?
Parent
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If we don't want our bikes to be tracked by RFID, then the only other choice is to support the oil industry?
Personally I don't mind the idea of having the bikes tracked using RFID. As long as the information was being used for good purposes, then all is well. RFID could prevent bike thefts, help city planners choose locations for new bike paths, allow for a web-based system to automatically let users know where bikes are availab
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A couple points...
First, the article claims that the technology will be used to help monitor traffic usage. One could assume that this was merely at the docking stations, but it could be used outside
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duh?
Wait until you understand what you read before posting.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Paris wasn't the first city in France to implement those (unless you count the RATP short-lived bike rental service, with probably a total of fifty bikes in the entire city at its peak). Lyon at least predated Vélib with its Vélov system. Yeah, dunno why the apostrophe trend.
The project currently being pushed by Delanoë (mayor of Paris) is also noteworthy : the goal is to have the same system as Vélib, but with cars. Dunno if it will work as well, though, since you still need a l
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly. Looks like Montreal is getting yet another system similar to Paris Velib [wikipedia.org], Barelona Bicing, Stockholm City Bikes [wikipedia.org], and others... Except this one will be buried in snow from November to April.
Trondheim, Norway had a similar system when I was there in 1998, not sure if it is older than that.
At 63.4 degrees North, I think those would also also qualify for the winter part.