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GoDaddy VP Caught Bidding Against Customers
Posted by
timothy
on Sun Jun 29, 2008 06:45 AM
from the strong-accusations-so-consider-the-source dept.
from the strong-accusations-so-consider-the-source dept.
An anonymous reader writes "A GoDaddy Vice President has been caught bidding against customers in their own domain name auctions. The employee Adam Dicker isn't just any GoDaddy employee; he's head of the GoDaddy subsidiary that controls the auctions.
Dicker won some of the domains he bid for, and pushed up the bid price on auctions he didn't win. The conflict of interest is unethical, but could this practice also be illegal? Said a representative for a competitor, 'Even if controlled, that practice has bad news written all over it.'
This comes hot on the heels of news that despite earlier promises to ICANN to end their 60-Day ban on transfers, GoDaddy quietly circumvented it by forcing customers to agree to the ban anyway. ICANN doesn't appear to be investigating or asking follow-up questions about this. What can be done to force ICANN to police the registrars for which it is responsible?"
Related Stories
[+]
Your Rights Online: GoDaddy Silences RateMyCop.com 561 comments
mikesd81 writes "Wired is running a story about GoDaddy shutting down a police watchdog site called RateMyCop. However, GoDaddy can't seem to give a consistent answer as for why. From the article: 'RateMyCop founder Gino Sesto says he was given no notice of the suspension. When he called GoDaddy, the company told him that he'd been shut down for suspicious activity. When Sesto got a supervisor on the phone, the company changed its story and claimed the site had surpassed its 3 terabyte bandwidth limit, a claim that Sesto says is nonsense. "How can it be overloaded when it only had 80,000 page views today, and 400,000 yesterday?" Sesto says police can post comments as well, and a future version of the site will allow them to authenticate themselves to post rebuttals more prominently. Chief Dyer wants to get legislation passed that would make RateMyCop.com illegal, which, of course, wouldn't pass constitutional muster in any court in America.'"
[+]
ICANN Moves Against GoDaddy Domain Lockdowns 146 comments
An anonymous reader writes "ICANN is finally taking action against Domain Registrar GoDaddy's controversial 'lockdowns'. GoDaddy has long had a policy of 'locking down' domain names for 60 days after a customer updated their contact details. This put customers in a Catch 22 position: ICANN requires customers keep their contact details up to date, or risk having the domain forfeited. Yet during the lockdown period the customer is prevented from transferring the domain from GoDaddy to another registrar. If the lockdown ran over the domain's expiry date, customers were forced to renew with GoDaddy or lose the domain. ICANN proposes to ban this practice. ICANN who is charged with overseeing the Internet has long been accused of giving domain registrars a free ride. But recently after ICANN failed to discipline Network Solutions over a front-running scam, they found themselves both on the wrong end of a lawsuit by lawyers Kabateck Brown Kellner. Is ICANN's action a signal of increased vigilance in policing registrars, or is it a PR move paving the way for a complete removal of US Government oversight?"
Submission: GoDaddy VP Caught Bidding Against Customers by Anonymous Coward
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Here's What Can Be Done... (Score:4, Funny)
Pay a Congressman.
Cheers!
Strat
Re:Here's What Can Be Done... (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, but I hear that even congressmen are bidding for themselves these days...
Parent
Get the word out (Score:5, Insightful)
At a minimum, get the word out so everyone knows about it. Also, vote with your dollars by taking your business elsewhere.
Re:Get the word out (Score:5, Informative)
Problem is... all the domain auction sites are full of scumbags.
Virtually all of the "buy a lapsed domain" sites use a "give us a number, we won't tell you if you've beat the other bidder - or even if there is another bidder, but we will let you increase your bid if you want" bidding method. Oh... and you have to pay to for the privilege of bidding.
Fucking scumbags, pure and simple.
BTW... If you're considering Godaddy's "expiring domain" service, don't - because you might as well just take a $20 bill and burn it in a sacrifice to the domain gods.
Godaddy tells you that if you don't get the domain you want, you can try another. Of course, they virtually never win anything (as the big domain auction houses get most domains, something that GoDaddy is well aware of) and when you try to register another domain, "it doesn't qualify" or you will be told you have to try and find another domain (which, of course, you also won't get) and so on and so on. I'd be surprised if godaddy has even caught a single expiring domain (from another registrar) in their entire history.
Domain registrars are all scum.
Parent
if there was an equal price competitor ... (Score:5, Informative)
I would ditch my 200+ domains at GoDaddy in a heartbeat.
The company is rife with unethical business practices.
I have experienced this same thing where GoDaddy bid against me in an auction.
They will also purposely not update your contact information / credit information for certain domains where they can grab them and sell them off at a profit. Which has also happened to me.
For whatever reason, there doesn't seem to be an equal price competitor to GoDaddy. That's a shame as there are many people who want to leave.
So... (Score:4, Insightful)
In other words, you would take a stand on principle, but not if it costs you a bit more money. Heh.
Parent
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
I would take a stand on principle, but there's no place to stand.
You're complaining about $2 a year per domain? Even for 200 domains that's only $400 more a year. If you really can't cover these costs, I have to wonder why you've got some many domains in the first place.
Your implication that people have endless dollars available to buy principle... a nice idea, but not part of reality for most of us.
You're really just thinking short term. How much is it going to cost you if godaddy suspends one of your domains because they want to? How much is it going to cost when you have to bid against godaddy? How much is it going to cost when they apply any of their other unethical practices?
If you can't afford $400 a year to not deal with scumbags, get out of whatever business you're in. Scambags always screw you over in the end.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:So... (Score:5, Informative)
Where are you getting a price of $2 per year for a domain?
$2 a year is the DIFFERENCE between the $10 godaddy price, and other registrars which charge $12 a year (I know Joker.com is $12/year).
Parent
Re:if there was an equal price competitor ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:if there was an equal price competitor ... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If all of them are personal domains then I'd just have to say what the hell? Why would you need 200 personal domains?
Re:if there was an equal price competitor ... (Score:5, Interesting)
You sir are the perfect candidate to own a micro domain registrar.
I got mine about four years ago. I was frustrated with both NetSol ($$$$), GoDaddy (liked to play cat and mouse games with their customers) and the many hosts that included free domain names with terrible strings attached. A reseller web hosting account was $15/month (after four years they just raised it to $20), and a registrar account with an Indian domain wholesaler was free.
On day one I was able to sell domains for under $10 and still make money in every transaction. My then boss immediately stopped using NeSol, so as each of his 20+ domains needed a renewal, he transferred them to me. My friends took notice, so every single one moved his domains with me.
As I kept selling domains, the registrar moved me up in their sales tier, every time shaving a few cents off the wholesale price for each domain. I did not get greedy, every time I got a cut, I shaved my prices a little bit.
I call it my micro registrar company because we are talking just a few hundred domains scattered across 30 or so customers. But they love me because whenever something goes wrong, all they have to do is either IM, email me or even call me, and they get much better support than what they would get from NetSol or GoDaddy. In the rare case that I actually need the help of the wholesalers, their turnaround is pretty decent, and they are extremely polite and professional.
I am not saying that everything is perfect, or that it is a piece of cake, but it does not take a lot of work to make it happen. At least two of my friends liked it enough that they made their own micro registrars too, and as far as I know they are happy with it.
As for what the GoDaddy asshat did, it is at the very least a breach of trust. If one of my customers asks me to check a few domains for her and she tells me she wants to think about it, I am not going to buy them for myself and then ask her for more money, that's just wrong.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There are a few. I switched to Monicker. Nodaddy.com has some suggestions for places to switch to.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The company is rife with unethical business practices.
Yes, but they have sweaty, scantily clad babes in their commercials!
Re:if there was an equal price competitor ... (Score:4, Informative)
I was personally burned by GoDaddy when I did a search on a name, waited to purchase it, and then came back a week later to find out that GoDaddy itself had purchased it (using a "private" WHOIS registration). Thing of it is, the name only means something if you happen to be a speaker of Japanese. I hardly think that somebody working for GoDaddy in the southwestern United States would appreciate the significance. Of course, the name still remains unused, except to generate ad revenue by showing the GoDaddy "parked domain" page.
Parent
Unbelieveable... (Score:5, Funny)
Adam Dicker? (Score:5, Funny)
Wow, if Charles Dickens were writing today, he'd be all over that name.
Adam Dicker, quicker with the clicker than the clients he dicks o'er
Mr. Pinchloaf, known as a tight-ass most horribly, whose pucker snaps shut audibly
Nadia Rotchacokoff, who gives her love freely and her diseases venerally
Steve Ballmer, a rabid wombat would be much calmer, screaming, hurling chairs against the wallmer
President Bush and Vice President Dick, with names like that, someone's getting fucked right quick
ICANN? (Score:3, Interesting)
More like ICANN'T!
Why is anyone surprised at unethical behaviour by GoDaddy?
ICANN is I couldn't. The GoDaddy list: (Score:5, Informative)
I'm keeping a list of stories about GoDaddy on Slashdot, in order by date:
Go Daddy Usurps Network Solutions [slashdot.org] (2005-05-04)
GoDaddy Serves Blank Pages to Safari & Opera [slashdot.org] (2005-12-08)
GoDaddy.com Dumps Linux for Microsoft [slashdot.org] (2006-03-23)
GoDaddy Holds Domains Hostage [slashdot.org] (2006-06-17)
GoDaddy Caves To Irish Legal Threat [slashdot.org] (2006-09-16)
MySpace and GoDaddy Shut Down Security Site [slashdot.org] (2007-01-26)
That incident prompted this web site:
Exposing the Many Reasons Not to Trust GoDaddy with Your Domain Names [nodaddy.com]. According to this March 11, 2008 story in Wired, GoDaddy shut down an entire web site of 250,000 pages because of one archived mailing list comment: GoDaddy Silences Police-Watchdog Site RateMyCop.com [wired.com]. See below for Slashdot's story about RateMyCop.com.
Alternative Registrars to GoDaddy? [slashdot.org] (2007-02-03)
GoDaddy Bobbles DST Changeover? [slashdot.org] (2007-03-11)
850K RegisterFly Domains Moved To GoDaddy [slashdot.org] (2007-05-29)
GoDaddy Silences RateMyCop.com [slashdot.org] (2008-03-12)
ICANN Moves Against GoDaddy Domain Lockdowns [slashdot.org] (2008-04-08)
GoDaddy VP Caught Bidding Against Customers [slashdot.org] (2008-06-29)
Any error or stories not included?
GoDaddy's reputation is not just one of a negative stories. In my opinion, GoDaddy tries to confuse non-technical people by offering services they don't need that are presented as valuable.
Here are some of the opinions of Bob Parsons, the owner of GoDaddy. He is pro-violence: Close Gitmo? No way!! [archive.org]
Parent
Re:ICANN is I couldn't. The GoDaddy list: (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Employees (Score:5, Informative)
It is common practice at GoDaddy to bid on domains and resell them. So much so that the unwritten word was to open an account under a family members name in order to make it harder to trace back to yourself.
Market Mess (Score:4, Insightful)
The whole domain name market has gotten out of control. Most unused domain names are now being used as nothing more than garbage linklists to generate ad revenue, while they sit at auction sites for $1,000 or more. It amazes me to think these garbage sites can generate more revenue than it costs to register the name. And then to sit on these names waiting for thousand dollar payoffs is outrageous. If ICANN intends domain names to be like real-estate then they need to provide permanent ownership. Otherwise they need to raise their own registration fees to prevent this kind of domain abuse. I for one tire of Google searches that return a list of b.s. sites.
Re:Market Mess (Score:5, Insightful)
It's kind of interesting that the only reason that most of these sites have value is because they show up in google searches. If google fixed its algorithms then the problem would go away. Unfortunately the ads on these sites are most likely google ads... google is making money so they have no incentive to change anything.
Parent
And just think... (Score:5, Insightful)
With this recent disclosure, I can no longer trust them. In my opinion, unethical is not a strong enough word to describe the act being reported.
Superbowl (Score:4, Funny)
They've got to pay for those Superbowl adverts somehow. :)
Move domains from GoDaddy to ? (Score:5, Interesting)
I have about a hundred domains with GoDaddy.
This is the last straw - the company is entirely unethical and I wish to no longer support them, or take chances that their unethical bullshit will one day burn me.
The reason I originally chose GoDaddy (which was quite a while ago when they were smaller) was because they had good prices and seemed reputable enough. If anyone has any auggestions on where the best place to move my domains to would be I woluld love to hear it.
I would like to avoid Network Solutions and their ilk, between their pricing, alphabet agency ties (and other things) it does not appeal to me - I would also like to avoid small fly-by-night "register your domain for 69 cents" places that may disappear or be purchased by other companies. Basically I am hoping to find a reputable, ethical registrar.....Any suggestions?
Re:Move domains from GoDaddy to ? (Score:4, Informative)
I've been using pairnic.com for all of mine. No jerking around, multiple warnings in advance of expiration, and I think I paid $50 for 5 years last time I renewed.
Parent
Re:Move domains from GoDaddy to ? (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Move domains from GoDaddy to ? (Score:5, Informative)
I've had good experiences with both PairNIC [pairnic.com] and Gandi [gandi.com]. I wrote up some information [inmostlight.org] about them, and compared them to a couple other registrars (including Netsol), but the upshot is that after doing a good deal of research I was unable to find any significant complaints about either one of them. They're both a little more expensive than the low-end registrars like Godaddy, but by nearly all accounts the extra cost is well worth it.
My domains are all at Gandi currently.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
My suggestions is:
http://www.buycheapdomains.com/ [buycheapdomains.com]
It costs $8.95/year and they've been around for years. They are enom resellers so whatever happens, you will still be able to access your domains through enom.
Or if you have the money, become an enom reseller (there's a $1000 setup fee for an $8.95/year account).
Re:Move domains from GoDaddy to ? (Score:4, Interesting)
1and1 are a bit slow (sometimes takes hours to do simple additions to DNS), and their control panel sucks.
BUT there are two great things about it: Generally cheap, and you have your authcode right in their interface if you want to move to another registrar. No hostage situation to worry about.
I give them thumbs up, despite being very simplistic.
Parent
NoDaddy (Score:5, Informative)
It's called "shilling" and it's illegal (Score:5, Interesting)
Selling Domains (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't believe GoDaddy is still in business. I can't remember ever reading anything good about them and every time I do see some article, it's always about their unethical business practices.
However, I think the core of the problem is that something ICANN needs to sort out by forbidding the resale or auction of domain names. They should only be allowed to be leased from accredited registrars at a fair price, with clear restrictions on artificially inflating the price. IMHO, the auDA has got this right for all .au domains.
This is called 'shill bidding' (Score:5, Interesting)
... and it is, roughly speaking, illegal as hell in many jurisdictions.
Parent
Re:Its legal (Score:5, Informative)
Its Certainly Unethical, sometimes illegal. Where I Live, If you do it in Real Estate Auctions, you can loose any profits, and get a few fines, Auctioneer can loose their license.
Parent
Re:Its legal (Score:5, Insightful)
it should be illegal (depends where you live).
if you want a minimum price then set a reserve, not all this BS.
or just make this a law; if you are in any way financially associated with the auction, it must be declared on every bid you make.
otherwise, how is this not bait and switch or thuggery?
thug: "give me $10!"
person takes out wallet containing $30
thug: "give me $30!"
Parent
Re:Its legal (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Its legal (Score:4, Interesting)
At least to me, your minimum/starting bid is the same as what you said.
I think that reserve amounts are set in the hope of getting a 'bidding war' started, get more people interested and bidding, and therefore end up running the price above what the item would have sold for with a minimum bid.
Parent
Re:Its legal (Score:4, Interesting)
I generally am never on the owning side of an auction. I'm typically on the bidding side with the exception of one thing that went through a real auction house which I got roughly 200 times what I expected.
But from my perspective, a reserve means I need to cover at least this much or I take a loss. A minimum bid says it is worth this much at least. Perhaps it is more perspective then anything and some could be wanting to start a bidding war. And your right in that the reserve promotes bidding were it wouldn't be possible with a minimum bid. All the auctions I have been to, the reserve price has always been a secrete until after the item has been auctioned too. It might be different at some auctions but from my perspective, I see it differently. I can see however, where your opinion is just as valid if not more giving some insight into the owner's mental workings as mine.
BTW, the piece I auctioned was an antique dresser I got as partial payment for helping the family of an elderly neighbor clean up after she passed on. I only took the thing because they were talking about not having any place to store it and they didn't like the looks of it. I traded $25 of the $125 I got for moving stuff into a truck after they packed it up and it sold for $7,000 plus at auction because the maker was local and in demand. I though it would bring a couple hundred or maybe even close to a grand if someone was crazy. I never saw seven grand coming from it.
Parent
Re:Its legal (Score:5, Interesting)
That's pretty much what I said, right?
I put item X up for auction. I want at least $20 for it. If I put a minimum bid on it I get one guy who puts $20 down on it. Or I set a $20 reserve, bidders 1-10, smelling a deal start bidding, it quickly exceeds $20, but since 1-10 were already looking at it, at least some have their competitive side awake and are looking for a 'win'. Next thing you know it sells for $50.
Parent
Re:Its legal (Score:5, Insightful)
Summary: "We didn't do anything wrong, but we're going to stop doing it."
Quit being a weasel. Take a stand. Make a choice and stick with it.
Either say that it was ok and you are going to continue to allow your employees to do it, or say that it is not ok and that Mr. Dicker did something wrong.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Its legal (Score:5, Insightful)
It may be legal, but it is unethical.
And when you are a registrar, by far your most important asset is trust. GoDaddy no longer has mine, and I will no longer recommend them.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Indeed. I was a big GoDaddy fan until I found out they are the largest domain squatters in the world. Then I did some shopping around and found out I was paying $20/year for WhoIS privacy protection that my webhost / registrar includes for free with every domain.
I've attempted many times to migrate my main domain away from GoDaddy to my current webhost and for some reason it fails. The webhost says that GoDaddy is blocking the transfer - even though I've unlocked the domain and followed the rules.
Come to fi
Re:Its legal (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, in the simplest terms you are wrong, but the explanation is more complicated.
Knowing allowing shill bidding (whether by yourself or others) is cause for revocation of an auctioneer's license or fines by state regulators. The state law most often says that a business cannot conduct auctions without an auctioneer's license, so the leverage for fines and punishment is generally against continued ability to conduct auctions and not strictly a legal matter aside from maybe breach of contract claims or similar.
Shilling itself may or may not be illegal state by state, but just because you can't go to jail for it alone does not preclude you having your ass handed to you in a courtroom. Again, you can be sued under breach of contract or for violation of the UCC for which law may allow certain claims.
In this particular case, ICANN probably has some type of contract governing the auctions that GoDaddy is probably also violating. I would imagine that their hole is pretty deep in this matter.
Parent
Re:Its legal (Score:5, Informative)
Unethical, but not the slightest bit illegal.
You sure about that? From Wikipedia, on Shills in Auctions: [wikipedia.org]
Shill bidding may be a common practice on eBay. In his book Fake: Forgery, Lies, & eBay, Kenneth Walton describes how he and his cohorts placed shill bids on hundreds of eBay auctions over the course of a year. While many sellers consider shill bidding a harmless act, some believe that it may violate federal or state laws. Walton and his associates were charged and convicted of fraud by the United States Attorney for their eBay shill bidding.
Yup. Sounds pretty illegal so far.
Parent
Re:Recommendations for reputable registrars? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
See my post further up, I have tried Godaddy, Dotster, Yahoo, Google, Dreamhost and a few other but now use http://www.omnis.com/ [omnis.com] exclusively for Domain purchases.
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=598685&cid=23989845 [slashdot.org]